I wouldn't use it if it were just a code that makes weapons invincible while changing nothing else, as that would make so much stuff rather useless to explore, since a lot of rewards are weapons. I think it would need a full overhaul and rethinking. For one idea, maybe make it so that you can have some NPCs repair or upgrade any given weapon, with various upgrade paths available for each one. Robbie can already make you ancient weapons, so that could be changed to letting you upgrade a weapon into an ancient version of it. Or you could go to the Zora smith for armor-piercing upgrades, or to the Goron smith for Flame weapons.
Shrine rewards would still include powerful weapons, but they would also now include upgrade materials for various weapon types.
I'm playing the game like "normal." I approach a camp. I fight a dude. My sword breaks against that dude. I get out another weapon and kill the next dude. It breaks. Get my next weapon for the 3rd dude. It breaks.
So at the end of the camp when the camp is clear and all the dudes are dead, I have replaced as many weapons as dudes that I have killed.
Sometimes I find better weapons that last maybe 2-3 dudes before they break. But when they inevitably do break, then I'm back to just clubs and skeleton arms until I find another decent weapon.
But even decent weapons are shit. There's no such thing as a "good weapon" in this game. A best case scenario is a weapon that might last as many as 5 dudes before it breaks. And that's still not enough.
I don't think this is true. The game didn't feel like this at all to me, early game, mid-game or late game. I want to test it when I get home, not to prove you wrong or to try to convince you of anything, but because other people say things like this too and it just doesn't feel reflective of my own experience. I'm not sure if it's a function of the weapons I have, or because I use bombs and arrows more than I think I do, or what.
To some extent this should even be calculable. A certain piece of gear shows enemy HP, and AFAIK every hit you do subtracts the weapon's attack value from the HP. And weapons break after a certain number of strikes every time, though that may be modified by the hardness of what you're hitting, like if you're going out attacking Taluses or whatever.
The durability system is key to a lot of the stuff in this game and if you just ripped it out you'd have a lot of other problems. It fits well with what they've done and the puzzles they've made.
+8
Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
So one of the 3 orbs is at the top of a big hill in the island. The pedestool to put it in is also there. Now, if you were like me, you accidentally knocked the orb off the hill onto the bottom. The problem? The game doesn't reset the location of the damn orb!!! I had accidentally blown the orb far off into the water. While I was able to get it back onto land, the problem of not resetting the location becomes apparent: there is seemingly no way to get this fucking orb up that hill since you are constantly forced to climb. Running far out of view of the orb doesn't reset it. Sitting by the fire overnight doesn't reset it. Apparently dying resets the whole island but I had cleared everything (including killing the Hinox) and didn't want to do it over again. Then of course a Blood Moon happens and respawns everything.
Being super stubborn, and after 1.5 hours, I finally managed to get that fucking orb to the top and complete the trial. Near the Hinox, there is a very specific pattern you can take up the hill without having to climb, but it doesn't get you to very top, it gets you JUST short. When you're there, you run up the last part and right before you slip, you throw the orb up, and it just barely hangs on the lip of the hill. Then, you need to immediately run to the top and grab the orb before it tumbles back down the hill.
In conclusion, fuck not resetting the orb location.
You can Stasis launch the orb you know. That's how I got the one to the island in the southwest corner. I'm sure there's probably some place you can use to launch it up the hill
Orbs float, you can just toss them into the water and Cryronis them back into reach.
I feel like I tried that but the orbs just like to roll off. I had made some log bridges across but it didn't work great, and then octoroks started pelting me which messed everything up. Stasis punting was the only way I was able to get it up there in the end
The durability system is key to a lot of the stuff in this game and if you just ripped it out you'd have a lot of other problems. It fits well with what they've done and the puzzles they've made.
Fuck the Stasis golf puzzle, though.
Just give me an infinite-durability hammer that can't leave the shrine. I'm not even spending my weapons on a trial-and-error Stasis puzzle that requires hitting a rock.
Getting rid of weapon durability would make the combat less interesting.
It's great to be in the middle of a fight, wearing down a weapon. You throw it at an enemy for extra damage, and it breaks on contact, doing even MORE damage. Switch to a one-hander so you can use a shield? A spear so you can hitstun lock them? Or go big with a two-hander? Pick up whatever they just dropped?
Bow and arrow? Also limited, both in arrows and durability.
Bombs? Magnesis? Stasis? Also limited due to their timers.
Shields too. Can't block forever.
You can't spam anything in this game. There are limits to every method of attack.
The durability system is part of an ebb and flow, and that back and forth would not be there if you just had your sword that worked forever.
Yeah, the durability doesn't bother me overmuch, it feels more like an ammo system.
I just wish you could save more weapons with special effects, for a rainy day. I'd like to be able to keep some elemental weapons in reserve, but slots are pretty scarce unless you're good at sussing out Koroks, which I'm rather not. I like to keep tools on hand for multiple kinds of fights, but the starting slots felt really claustrophobic - things like, keeping a shock weapon on hand can be a lifesaver when you're being mobbed (and also can save you wasting durability on your weapons, since a single poke with a shock spear will make most enemies drop their weapon, which you can then immediately pick up and beat them to death with). But yeah, overall I don't have a huge problem with the system. Just wish you got more slots to flex at the beginning.
I saved one of each rod for like the entire game, probably 70-100 hours, and finally in the last hours I dropped them because I realized I never used that "utility." For fire I just used fire arrows and still ended up with like 170 of them.
Felt good to give it up and fill those slots with more ancient weapons.
Well that is nice you could still use all of those things in combat. You just wouldn't be forced to if you don't like to.
I mean some people really like it to the point of fervently defending it so it's doing something right but that doesn't mean those of us who do not like it on some level are just crazy.
Seidkona on
Mostly just huntin' monsters.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
I'm playing the game like "normal." I approach a camp. I fight a dude. My sword breaks against that dude. I get out another weapon and kill the next dude. It breaks. Get my next weapon for the 3rd dude. It breaks.
So at the end of the camp when the camp is clear and all the dudes are dead, I have replaced as many weapons as dudes that I have killed.
Sometimes I find better weapons that last maybe 2-3 dudes before they break. But when they inevitably do break, then I'm back to just clubs and skeleton arms until I find another decent weapon.
But even decent weapons are shit. There's no such thing as a "good weapon" in this game. A best case scenario is a weapon that might last as many as 5 dudes before it breaks. And that's still not enough.
I don't think this is true. The game didn't feel like this at all to me, early game, mid-game or late game. I want to test it when I get home, not to prove you wrong or to try to convince you of anything, but because other people say things like this too and it just doesn't feel reflective of my own experience. I'm not sure if it's a function of the weapons I have, or because I use bombs and arrows more than I think I do, or what.
To some extent this should even be calculable. A certain piece of gear shows enemy HP, and AFAIK every hit you do subtracts the weapon's attack value from the HP. And weapons break after a certain number of strikes every time, though that may be modified by the hardness of what you're hitting, like if you're going out attacking Taluses or whatever.
I don't have any issues with it, but my observations definitely line up w/ lucas' . I average one weapon per dude, good weapons might last 2 or 3 dudes. This has been true for pretty much the entire game and I just wrapped up the divine beasts, so I think i'm pretty close to finishing the main story.
I have to admit, killing a dungeon boss by chucking a badly damaged weapon at it felt really satisfying.
+6
SurfpossumA nonentitytrying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered Userregular
The other thing durability introduces is a "real" cost to every fight. Some fights you just literally cannot take on (at least not without mixing in bombs/boxes/whatever) with the equipment you have, and even the ones that you can involve a "permanent" loss.
It makes fights feel much more weighty and serious to me; when I wade into an encampment and pull out the big swords you know shit is going down. I'm committing to that fight.
Whereas in previous games fights could be tense and exciting but I never had that feeling of weight; it was always just kill a bunch of stuff and then move on.
Yeah, the durability doesn't bother me overmuch, it feels more like an ammo system.
I just wish you could save more weapons with special effects, for a rainy day. I'd like to be able to keep some elemental weapons in reserve, but slots are pretty scarce unless you're good at sussing out Koroks, which I'm rather not. I like to keep tools on hand for multiple kinds of fights, but the starting slots felt really claustrophobic - things like, keeping a shock weapon on hand can be a lifesaver when you're being mobbed (and also can save you wasting durability on your weapons, since a single poke with a shock spear will make most enemies drop their weapon, which you can then immediately pick up and beat them to death with). But yeah, overall I don't have a huge problem with the system. Just wish you got more slots to flex at the beginning.
I saved one of each rod for like the entire game, probably 70-100 hours, and finally in the last hours I dropped them because I realized I never used that "utility." For fire I just used fire arrows and still ended up with like 170 of them.
Felt good to give it up and fill those slots with more ancient weapons.
Arrows cost money, though. Bombing a Wizzrobe and taking their shit is free.
I'm told enemies can theoretically drop elemental arrows, but it doesn't seem to happen very much.
That said, I prefer elemental weapons to elemental rods. I've been very carefully using a thunder spear for half the game now, because I just poke once and take the enemy's weapon. Rods are less reliable for that kind of stuff.
Well just finished the lizard dungeon, which after doing the camel and elephant is SIMPLE. Also that got me my 13th heart so I went to grab the master sword too.
I dont really have a problem with the weapon durability issues because almost everything you kill drops weapons and there's stuff everywhere on the ground. I do go through arrows like crazy though, either for shrines, picking off ranged enemies, or whatever. Other than on armor I feel like I spend all my other money on arrows.
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
I don't even use the boomerang ever but I can't bring myself to drop the Giant Boomerang because idk if there aer any others out there. leaving this flameblade in this shrine is a heartbreaker but it's just not close to stronger than everything else I have. it's honestly even weaker than the boomerang its just that as I said I don't ever toss the boomerang.
Getting rid of weapon durability would make the combat less interesting.
The combat is completely uninteresting because of the durability system. I avoid it unless necessary. It is more fun to explore and fly around then it is to fight. The boss fights are pretty fun, but fighting bobokins and lizalfos is a waste of time since their loot isn't great and they respawn during a blood moon.
In other Zelda games I killed stuff just because it was fun to kill stuff.
I don't even use the boomerang ever but I can't bring myself to drop the Giant Boomerang because idk if there aer any others out there. leaving this flameblade in this shrine is a heartbreaker but it's just not close to stronger than everything else I have. it's honestly even weaker than the boomerang its just that as I said I don't ever toss the boomerang.
Honestly I don't even pick Giant Boomerangs. I don't know if I'm doing something wrong or something, but while I can reliably boomerang people in the face with all the Lizalfos boomerangs, the Giant Boomerang seems to never come back after hitting.
was playing around afterward some more, looked at the map to port...saw the % number....I'm like...holy shit....I'm only 15% done with this game?!?!? I've only found like less than 60 shrines but damn....15%??? Then i remembered.... 900 seeds.
So I ended up doing the Rito dungeon first, mostly because I wanted to know what the hell that airship was flying around. The power you get from that kinda made the other dungeons a piece of cake. I didn't have to carefully line stuff up, a lot of the time I just jumped on top of the thing and went from there. Kinda trivialized the other dungeons.
0
Handsome CostanzaAsk me about 8bitdoRIP Iwata-sanRegistered Userregular
edited March 2017
I think boomerangs are hilarious. Especially when you miss catching one, which I do often, sometimes on purpose.
Edit: My dream is to one day miss catching it causing it to hit an enemy standing behind me, like a kung fu movie.
Well that is nice you could still use all of those things in combat. You just wouldn't be forced to if you don't like to.
I mean some people really like it to the point of fervently defending it so it's doing something right but that doesn't mean those of us who do not like it on some level are just crazy.
Yeah, it is a preference thing, but saying you could still technically do something isn't really fair.
Technically you could pretend your weapons break and make yourself drop them, but who would do that? Even if someone did it would be a significantly different experience if you weren't forced to switch weapons, even aside from all the tangential stuff like the reward structure.
It's one of those things you can't have both ways, because brain stuff.
Yeah, the durability doesn't bother me overmuch, it feels more like an ammo system.
I just wish you could save more weapons with special effects, for a rainy day. I'd like to be able to keep some elemental weapons in reserve, but slots are pretty scarce unless you're good at sussing out Koroks, which I'm rather not. I like to keep tools on hand for multiple kinds of fights, but the starting slots felt really claustrophobic - things like, keeping a shock weapon on hand can be a lifesaver when you're being mobbed (and also can save you wasting durability on your weapons, since a single poke with a shock spear will make most enemies drop their weapon, which you can then immediately pick up and beat them to death with). But yeah, overall I don't have a huge problem with the system. Just wish you got more slots to flex at the beginning.
I saved one of each rod for like the entire game, probably 70-100 hours, and finally in the last hours I dropped them because I realized I never used that "utility." For fire I just used fire arrows and still ended up with like 170 of them.
Felt good to give it up and fill those slots with more ancient weapons.
Arrows cost money, though. Bombing a Wizzrobe and taking their shit is free.
I'm told enemies can theoretically drop elemental arrows, but it doesn't seem to happen very much.
That said, I prefer elemental weapons to elemental rods. I've been very carefully using a thunder spear for half the game now, because I just poke once and take the enemy's weapon. Rods are less reliable for that kind of stuff.
I never bought any, that's just from chests throughout the game!
Working the mine carts is easy. You can't magnesis stuff that you're standing on (otherwise you could effectively fly and bust the game wide open), but you can stasis stuff you're standing on. So you get in the cart, stasis, and smack it in the direction you want to go. Just don't go too hard or the cart will derail.
I mean, I'd be much more understanding about the durability system if there was a true penalty associated with it, but there's not. Weapons are plentiful. Methods of killing things are even more plentiful. You're not forced to fight at a severely reduced effectiveness, you don't have to backtrack and grind materials, you're not even punished much at all for death. I mean, I'd like for weapons to not lose durability when I hit inanimate objects, but that's about it.
Yeah I just killed four blue, a silver, and a black moblin with a royal broadsword with a yellow durability enchant and it's not even giving me a warning. I have five of these from just dicking around.
Well that is nice you could still use all of those things in combat. You just wouldn't be forced to if you don't like to.
I mean some people really like it to the point of fervently defending it so it's doing something right but that doesn't mean those of us who do not like it on some level are just crazy.
Yeah, it is a preference thing, but saying you could still technically do something isn't really fair.
Technically you could pretend your weapons break and make yourself drop them, but who would do that? Even if someone did it would be a significantly different experience if you weren't forced to switch weapons, even aside from all the tangential stuff like the reward structure.
It's one of those things you can't have both ways, because brain stuff.
But it is fair. no one is suggesting to remove those systems and if you enjoy them they would not be impacted by weapon durability. Removing durability wouldn't make someone who likes to throw bombs not be able to throw bombs but keeping durability does limit a player who just likes to use his weapon. Forcing players to interact in a certain way by limiting a system is in a way sort of unfun. I don't understand the limiting of choice but it's bviously given something to people who are having fun so I am missing something. that is ok, too.
I mean it's cool. Me and this game are in a good place. I've dealt with it and let it go because the game is awesome otherwise.
Mostly just huntin' monsters.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
After fighting lynels for a while, it really started to show off the flaws of the entire weapon system. They have an absolutely ridiculous amount of health. Enough that you will break a weapon and most likely a second and even third as well. And each time you do, you have to freeze the game and cycle through a potentially long list of weapons for a suitable one (ie: the next weapon you're prepared to lose). Which honestly is the aspect I find to be the most annoying. The amount of times I've had to open that menu and go weapon hunting, bringing gameplay and combat flow to a screeching halt, is ridiculous. The inventory upgrading system becomes almost a surreal joke. You upgrade it so you can hold more weapons so you don't have to hunt for them as often, but in return you increase the amount of hunting you have to do in your inventory to find a weapon.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
Getting rid of weapon durability would make the combat less interesting.
The combat is completely uninteresting because of the durability system. I avoid it unless necessary. It is more fun to explore and fly around then it is to fight. The boss fights are pretty fun, but fighting bobokins and lizalfos is a waste of time since their loot isn't great and they respawn during a blood moon.
In other Zelda games I killed stuff just because it was fun to kill stuff.
If there was no durability, you would never have to consider whether or not to fight. There would be no choice to make.
Fighting bokoblins and lizalfos is always worth it to me because of their monster parts. Either to sell or use them for upgrades or elixirs. And I'm glad they respawn, otherwise you would slowly drain the world of danger and excitement. Exploring would get boring.
So I ended up doing the Rito dungeon first, mostly because I wanted to know what the hell that airship was flying around. The power you get from that kinda made the other dungeons a piece of cake. I didn't have to carefully line stuff up, a lot of the time I just jumped on top of the thing and went from there. Kinda trivialized the other dungeons.
Trivializes something else too.
Man after muscling my way up like 2/3rds of the towers before getting it I feel like if I ever play again I go there first and just SOAR up those things.
Vyolynce on
AC:NH Chris from Glosta SW-5173-3598-2899 DA-4749-1014-4697 @vyolynce@mastodon.social
I mean, I'd be much more understanding about the durability system if there was a true penalty associated with it, but there's not.
You mean that the weapon shards occasionally went into your eye and you couldn't see for a few minutes? That would be something. I don't care about which weapons break, I just hate having to select another one. With swords I can throw them, but with bows and shields you have to drop them and pick another one or use it until it breaks and pick another one. It is bad enough that the combat is paused so Link can eat 80 apples, it sucks that it is also paused while he decides on which weapon is worth sacrificing. I want to give a shout out to all the enemies who patiently wait for this to all happen. Many games do this, it isn't just BotW.
If there was no durability, you would never have to consider whether or not to fight. There would be no choice to make.
There is still no choice in my opinion. Without durability, always fight. With durability, don't fight unless necessary. I fight less because I don't care what weapon someone has in a chest. Weapons are disposable. Otherwise I would kill everything and see what each chest had.
So one of the 3 orbs is at the top of a big hill in the island. The pedestool to put it in is also there. Now, if you were like me, you accidentally knocked the orb off the hill onto the bottom. The problem? The game doesn't reset the location of the damn orb!!! I had accidentally blown the orb far off into the water. While I was able to get it back onto land, the problem of not resetting the location becomes apparent: there is seemingly no way to get this fucking orb up that hill since you are constantly forced to climb. Running far out of view of the orb doesn't reset it. Sitting by the fire overnight doesn't reset it. Apparently dying resets the whole island but I had cleared everything (including killing the Hinox) and didn't want to do it over again. Then of course a Blood Moon happens and respawns everything.
Being super stubborn, and after 1.5 hours, I finally managed to get that fucking orb to the top and complete the trial. Near the Hinox, there is a very specific pattern you can take up the hill without having to climb, but it doesn't get you to very top, it gets you JUST short. When you're there, you run up the last part and right before you slip, you throw the orb up, and it just barely hangs on the lip of the hill. Then, you need to immediately run to the top and grab the orb before it tumbles back down the hill.
In conclusion, fuck not resetting the orb location.
Legit Eventide Island hack for those struggling with it:
You can get close to the beach without triggering the Island cut scene. Which means you can pick off enemies, and then drop some gear. The enemies stay dead and you can get the gear after the challenge starts. So feel free to leave yourself a good bow or sword.
I'm playing the game like "normal." I approach a camp. I fight a dude. My sword breaks against that dude. I get out another weapon and kill the next dude. It breaks. Get my next weapon for the 3rd dude. It breaks.
So at the end of the camp when the camp is clear and all the dudes are dead, I have replaced as many weapons as dudes that I have killed.
Sometimes I find better weapons that last maybe 2-3 dudes before they break. But when they inevitably do break, then I'm back to just clubs and skeleton arms until I find another decent weapon.
But even decent weapons are shit. There's no such thing as a "good weapon" in this game. A best case scenario is a weapon that might last as many as 5 dudes before it breaks. And that's still not enough.
I don't think this is true. The game didn't feel like this at all to me, early game, mid-game or late game. I want to test it when I get home, not to prove you wrong or to try to convince you of anything, but because other people say things like this too and it just doesn't feel reflective of my own experience. I'm not sure if it's a function of the weapons I have, or because I use bombs and arrows more than I think I do, or what.
To some extent this should even be calculable. A certain piece of gear shows enemy HP, and AFAIK every hit you do subtracts the weapon's attack value from the HP. And weapons break after a certain number of strikes every time, though that may be modified by the hardness of what you're hitting, like if you're going out attacking Taluses or whatever.
It's certainly an embellished experience. The only items I've ever had break on just one enemy are the skeletal arms. That said, if you're trying to use a wood club on a hinox (sp?), that obviously won't work.
Well that is nice you could still use all of those things in combat. You just wouldn't be forced to if you don't like to.
I mean some people really like it to the point of fervently defending it so it's doing something right but that doesn't mean those of us who do not like it on some level are just crazy.
Yeah, it is a preference thing, but saying you could still technically do something isn't really fair.
Technically you could pretend your weapons break and make yourself drop them, but who would do that? Even if someone did it would be a significantly different experience if you weren't forced to switch weapons, even aside from all the tangential stuff like the reward structure.
It's one of those things you can't have both ways, because brain stuff.
But it is fair. no one is suggesting to remove those systems and if you enjoy them they would not be impacted by weapon durability. Removing durability wouldn't make someone who likes to throw bombs not be able to throw bombs but keeping durability does limit a player who just likes to use his weapon. Forcing players to interact in a certain way by limiting a system is in a way sort of unfun. I don't understand the limiting of choice but it's bviously given something to people who are having fun so I am missing something. that is ok, too.
I mean it's cool. Me and this game are in a good place. I've dealt with it and let it go because the game is awesome otherwise.
The game would play dramatically differently if there wasn't durability.
To make a Horizon comparison, I've heard multiple people talk about their methods of dealing with stuff. Some people use traps, some people use certain arrows, etc. But once they got into their method of doing things, they kept doing that thing.
By making your method of doing things in Zelda a consumable resource, you force the player to try out other options and mix it up, keeping things fresh rather than approaching each encounter the same way every time. If you remove the reason for me to throw bombs, why would I throw bombs? I do it now because it's an effective way to break up enemies and approach one at time, or even snag dropped weapons to make them easier to deal with.
I think the system could be improved in some ways, but removing it would overall be a big problem. I don't think they're limiting choice, I think they're forcing you to actually have to make choices.
+6
SurfpossumA nonentitytrying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered Userregular
Well that is nice you could still use all of those things in combat. You just wouldn't be forced to if you don't like to.
I mean some people really like it to the point of fervently defending it so it's doing something right but that doesn't mean those of us who do not like it on some level are just crazy.
Yeah, it is a preference thing, but saying you could still technically do something isn't really fair.
Technically you could pretend your weapons break and make yourself drop them, but who would do that? Even if someone did it would be a significantly different experience if you weren't forced to switch weapons, even aside from all the tangential stuff like the reward structure.
It's one of those things you can't have both ways, because brain stuff.
But it is fair. no one is suggesting to remove those systems and if you enjoy them they would not be impacted by weapon durability. Removing durability wouldn't make someone who likes to throw bombs not be able to throw bombs but keeping durability does limit a player who just likes to use his weapon. Forcing players to interact in a certain way by limiting a system is in a way sort of unfun. I don't understand the limiting of choice but it's bviously given something to people who are having fun so I am missing something. that is ok, too.
I mean it's cool. Me and this game are in a good place. I've dealt with it and let it go because the game is awesome otherwise.
But what I'm saying is that if weapons never broke, saying that people could just drop their weapons by choice and pick up new ones mid combat just the same is not really the same.
It's something people could still technically do, just like how if you were suddenly invincible you could still reload after taking X amount of hits, but it would be extremely different.
Again, I'm not trying to say this is the one true best way or anything. For my part I just mostly like exploring the design decisions behind and ramifications of this stuff; I think much of the arguing is largely due to some people saying "I don't like thing" and others hearing "thing is bad."
I don't like using the word "enemy" as a metric. I more prefer "encounter". "Enemy" I'm sure gives the mental image of somebody breaking say a knight's broadsword on a regular weak bokoblin, which no doubt seems hyperbolic. "Encounter" is better because that could be anything from 5 weak bokoblins, or 3 blue bokoblins and a moblin, or even just 1 silver bokoblin which is a fucking damage sponge of 700 hp. So yeah, it's entirely possible to have a weapon break every 2 encounters, which really does feel like shit.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
If there was no durability, you would never have to consider whether or not to fight. There would be no choice to make.
There is still no choice in my opinion. Without durability, always fight. With durability, don't fight unless necessary. I fight less because I don't care what weapon someone has in a chest. Weapons are disposable. Otherwise I would kill everything and see what each chest had.
I wonder if maybe this is compounding the problem for people; roughly speaking, the more stuff you kill, the more the world "levels up" and the better items you get.
If people are avoiding too many fights, it may be taking longer to start getting stronger stuff; I know I gradually crossed a threshold after which I was pruning my available weapons rather than just using whatever I had.
If there was no durability, you would never have to consider whether or not to fight. There would be no choice to make.
There is still no choice in my opinion. Without durability, always fight. With durability, don't fight unless necessary. I fight less because I don't care what weapon someone has in a chest. Weapons are disposable. Otherwise I would kill everything and see what each chest had.
I wonder if maybe this is compounding the problem for people; roughly speaking, the more stuff you kill, the more the world "levels up" and the better items you get.
If people are avoiding too many fights, it may be taking longer to start getting stronger stuff; I know I gradually crossed a threshold after which I was pruning my available weapons rather than just using whatever I had.
Yeah, refusing to engage with the systems will probably lead to frustration.
I don't like using the word "enemy" as a metric. I more prefer "encounter". "Enemy" I'm sure gives the mental image of somebody breaking say a knight's broadsword on a regular weak bokoblin, which no doubt seems hyperbolic. "Encounter" is better because that could be anything from 5 weak bokoblins, or 3 blue bokoblins and a moblin, or even just 1 silver bokoblin which is a fucking damage sponge of 700 hp. So yeah, it's entirely possible to have a weapon break every 2 encounters, which really does feel like shit.
That's some goalpost-moving. The statement is that weapons are literally 1:1 with enemies, kill a guy, break a weapon, get his weapon, use in on the next guy, break a weapon, get his weapon etc.
Losing 1 weapon per encounter would put you pretty far ahead in the number of weapons you've got. Sure a lot of enemies have spiked boko bats, but you're also exploring and opening chests and doing trials, and getting thunderblades and such right along with it.
I mean, that's the complaint. That you never increase the number of weapons you've got on hand, you only replace. Having it "feel" bad because 1 thing breaks and you find 5 more is much more of a personal hangup.
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Shrine rewards would still include powerful weapons, but they would also now include upgrade materials for various weapon types.
I don't think this is true. The game didn't feel like this at all to me, early game, mid-game or late game. I want to test it when I get home, not to prove you wrong or to try to convince you of anything, but because other people say things like this too and it just doesn't feel reflective of my own experience. I'm not sure if it's a function of the weapons I have, or because I use bombs and arrows more than I think I do, or what.
To some extent this should even be calculable. A certain piece of gear shows enemy HP, and AFAIK every hit you do subtracts the weapon's attack value from the HP. And weapons break after a certain number of strikes every time, though that may be modified by the hardness of what you're hitting, like if you're going out attacking Taluses or whatever.
Fuck the Stasis golf puzzle, though.
Just give me an infinite-durability hammer that can't leave the shrine. I'm not even spending my weapons on a trial-and-error Stasis puzzle that requires hitting a rock.
It's great to be in the middle of a fight, wearing down a weapon. You throw it at an enemy for extra damage, and it breaks on contact, doing even MORE damage. Switch to a one-hander so you can use a shield? A spear so you can hitstun lock them? Or go big with a two-hander? Pick up whatever they just dropped?
Bow and arrow? Also limited, both in arrows and durability.
Bombs? Magnesis? Stasis? Also limited due to their timers.
Shields too. Can't block forever.
You can't spam anything in this game. There are limits to every method of attack.
The durability system is part of an ebb and flow, and that back and forth would not be there if you just had your sword that worked forever.
I saved one of each rod for like the entire game, probably 70-100 hours, and finally in the last hours I dropped them because I realized I never used that "utility." For fire I just used fire arrows and still ended up with like 170 of them.
Felt good to give it up and fill those slots with more ancient weapons.
I mean some people really like it to the point of fervently defending it so it's doing something right but that doesn't mean those of us who do not like it on some level are just crazy.
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I don't have any issues with it, but my observations definitely line up w/ lucas' . I average one weapon per dude, good weapons might last 2 or 3 dudes. This has been true for pretty much the entire game and I just wrapped up the divine beasts, so I think i'm pretty close to finishing the main story.
It makes fights feel much more weighty and serious to me; when I wade into an encampment and pull out the big swords you know shit is going down. I'm committing to that fight.
Whereas in previous games fights could be tense and exciting but I never had that feeling of weight; it was always just kill a bunch of stuff and then move on.
Which is also fun, but different.
Arrows cost money, though. Bombing a Wizzrobe and taking their shit is free.
I'm told enemies can theoretically drop elemental arrows, but it doesn't seem to happen very much.
That said, I prefer elemental weapons to elemental rods. I've been very carefully using a thunder spear for half the game now, because I just poke once and take the enemy's weapon. Rods are less reliable for that kind of stuff.
I dont really have a problem with the weapon durability issues because almost everything you kill drops weapons and there's stuff everywhere on the ground. I do go through arrows like crazy though, either for shrines, picking off ranged enemies, or whatever. Other than on armor I feel like I spend all my other money on arrows.
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The combat is completely uninteresting because of the durability system. I avoid it unless necessary. It is more fun to explore and fly around then it is to fight. The boss fights are pretty fun, but fighting bobokins and lizalfos is a waste of time since their loot isn't great and they respawn during a blood moon.
In other Zelda games I killed stuff just because it was fun to kill stuff.
Honestly I don't even pick Giant Boomerangs. I don't know if I'm doing something wrong or something, but while I can reliably boomerang people in the face with all the Lizalfos boomerangs, the Giant Boomerang seems to never come back after hitting.
Edit: My dream is to one day miss catching it causing it to hit an enemy standing behind me, like a kung fu movie.
Resident 8bitdo expert.
Resident hybrid/flap cover expert.
Technically you could pretend your weapons break and make yourself drop them, but who would do that? Even if someone did it would be a significantly different experience if you weren't forced to switch weapons, even aside from all the tangential stuff like the reward structure.
It's one of those things you can't have both ways, because brain stuff.
I never bought any, that's just from chests throughout the game!
I just used bombs, like you do with the canons.
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Yeah I just killed four blue, a silver, and a black moblin with a royal broadsword with a yellow durability enchant and it's not even giving me a warning. I have five of these from just dicking around.
But it is fair. no one is suggesting to remove those systems and if you enjoy them they would not be impacted by weapon durability. Removing durability wouldn't make someone who likes to throw bombs not be able to throw bombs but keeping durability does limit a player who just likes to use his weapon. Forcing players to interact in a certain way by limiting a system is in a way sort of unfun. I don't understand the limiting of choice but it's bviously given something to people who are having fun so I am missing something. that is ok, too.
I mean it's cool. Me and this game are in a good place. I've dealt with it and let it go because the game is awesome otherwise.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
If there was no durability, you would never have to consider whether or not to fight. There would be no choice to make.
Fighting bokoblins and lizalfos is always worth it to me because of their monster parts. Either to sell or use them for upgrades or elixirs. And I'm glad they respawn, otherwise you would slowly drain the world of danger and excitement. Exploring would get boring.
Trivializes something else too.
You mean that the weapon shards occasionally went into your eye and you couldn't see for a few minutes? That would be something. I don't care about which weapons break, I just hate having to select another one. With swords I can throw them, but with bows and shields you have to drop them and pick another one or use it until it breaks and pick another one. It is bad enough that the combat is paused so Link can eat 80 apples, it sucks that it is also paused while he decides on which weapon is worth sacrificing. I want to give a shout out to all the enemies who patiently wait for this to all happen. Many games do this, it isn't just BotW.
There is still no choice in my opinion. Without durability, always fight. With durability, don't fight unless necessary. I fight less because I don't care what weapon someone has in a chest. Weapons are disposable. Otherwise I would kill everything and see what each chest had.
Legit Eventide Island hack for those struggling with it:
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It's certainly an embellished experience. The only items I've ever had break on just one enemy are the skeletal arms. That said, if you're trying to use a wood club on a hinox (sp?), that obviously won't work.
The game would play dramatically differently if there wasn't durability.
To make a Horizon comparison, I've heard multiple people talk about their methods of dealing with stuff. Some people use traps, some people use certain arrows, etc. But once they got into their method of doing things, they kept doing that thing.
By making your method of doing things in Zelda a consumable resource, you force the player to try out other options and mix it up, keeping things fresh rather than approaching each encounter the same way every time. If you remove the reason for me to throw bombs, why would I throw bombs? I do it now because it's an effective way to break up enemies and approach one at time, or even snag dropped weapons to make them easier to deal with.
I think the system could be improved in some ways, but removing it would overall be a big problem. I don't think they're limiting choice, I think they're forcing you to actually have to make choices.
It's something people could still technically do, just like how if you were suddenly invincible you could still reload after taking X amount of hits, but it would be extremely different.
Again, I'm not trying to say this is the one true best way or anything. For my part I just mostly like exploring the design decisions behind and ramifications of this stuff; I think much of the arguing is largely due to some people saying "I don't like thing" and others hearing "thing is bad."
If people are avoiding too many fights, it may be taking longer to start getting stronger stuff; I know I gradually crossed a threshold after which I was pruning my available weapons rather than just using whatever I had.
Yeah, refusing to engage with the systems will probably lead to frustration.
That's some goalpost-moving. The statement is that weapons are literally 1:1 with enemies, kill a guy, break a weapon, get his weapon, use in on the next guy, break a weapon, get his weapon etc.
Losing 1 weapon per encounter would put you pretty far ahead in the number of weapons you've got. Sure a lot of enemies have spiked boko bats, but you're also exploring and opening chests and doing trials, and getting thunderblades and such right along with it.
I mean, that's the complaint. That you never increase the number of weapons you've got on hand, you only replace. Having it "feel" bad because 1 thing breaks and you find 5 more is much more of a personal hangup.