Benjamin getting killed to help spur the kingdom to action
a mile away. They couldn't have been more transparent that it was happening this episode either with him giving Morgan a present and talking about how he met a girl.
This episode was a lot better than last week's. Hoping for a strong final 3 eps to close out the season and set us up for waaaaar.
+2
Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
I think we all did.
I really liked that the guy that broke Morgan's pacifism was an ally. I am interested in where he goes from here, which is not something I expected to say of Morgan! I can kinda imagine the season might end with him getting an opportunity to kill Negan, and not taking it, getting killed for being a better person, and this'll influence how Rick ultimately deals with the guy.
Watching the recap of previous seasons really makes me appreciate the fact that we finally have actual communities now. Good communities. Where their leaders disagree on the right course of action, and for pretty reasonable reasons.
After watching the episode where Rick first proposes a military alliance with Ezekiel, I found myself pondering that, at length. What could you say? What could you possibly say to a leader to convince him to sacrifice his own people's lives for war? Yes, it's for a good reason, but how do you convince him, while being honest about the risks?
It's definitely more interesting than the Governor's story line, or basically anything until now. Stable communities in dangerous environments is, just, a fascinating thing for me.
I really liked that the guy that broke Morgan's pacifism was an ally. I am interested in where he goes from here, which is not something I expected to say of Morgan! I can kinda imagine the season might end with him getting an opportunity to kill Negan, and not taking it, getting killed for being a better person, and this'll influence how Rick ultimately deals with the guy.
I think one or several of the women will die this season.
+1
Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
I'd be fine with Rosita dying this episode, she's never really clicked IMO. Pretty much everyone else is great tho, and would be missed. Like even Tara, a borderline redshirt, I'll be sad if they kill her off.
Oh brilliant
0
CaptainPeacockBoard Game HoarderTop o' the LakeRegistered Userregular
Tonight's ep:
Et tu Eugene?
Cluck cluck, gibber gibber, my old man's a mushroom, etc.
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Two Broke(n) Girls. I like both of these actresses, but wow do I hate their characters.
+2
KoopahTroopahThe koopas, the troopas.Philadelphia, PARegistered Userregular
Yep, another episode that didn't work for me.
It's obvious that Rosita wants to end her life just to get to Negan and finish the job. For Sasha to deny her what she wants is what we bird people call "a dick move."
I think Eugene is just a victim to his cowardice. Not necessarily that he's happy or okay "Being Negan."
And again, fucking progress the story please. Samurai Jack gets more done in 20 minutes than Walking Dead does in a whole season. What even is that?
It's definitely more interesting than the Governor's story line, or basically anything until now. Stable communities in dangerous environments is, just, a fascinating thing for me.
The Governor, like all TWD villains, was just supposed to be the dark side of Rick at the time. The show starts with Shane; what if Rick tries to lead as a cop but also puts his family before anyone else. Then we got the Governor; what if Rick gives in to madness after Lori's death. Now we got Negan; what if Rick forces other communities to do as he says.
That's also why I felt kinda sorry for the Governor, he was doing some evil shit but he was also mentally ill and never acted rationally.
It's obvious that Rosita wants to end her life just to get to Negan and finish the job. For Sasha to deny her what she wants is what we bird people call "a dick move."
I think Eugene is just a victim to his cowardice. Not necessarily that he's happy or okay "Being Negan."
And again, fucking progress the story please. Samurai Jack gets more done in 20 minutes than Walking Dead does in a whole season. What even is that?
I disagree with the bolded in KoopTroop's spoiler
I really think Eugene is terrified but playing a longer game. His machinations have always been long term, and I think he is also planning on doing what it takes to take out Negan; his plan on what to do after is what I haven't figured out. Is Geno going to try to replace Negan?
I always watch this show and just hate it now, something's wrong with me. I gotta quit. I got a problem. This is some Dexter Season 7 shit.
Its why I read the comics these days. The comics are a lot better than the show. Although I do want to remark that the pacing can be just as bad. (Going a couple months with nothing happening but plotting) but suddenly the author cranks it up and you can get two issues a month. (Dope as heck!)
I stopped watching the show around the Governor era, but it sounds like to me that the director/AMC forgot what made the comics soooo good is that the comics embraced how humanity drifted back from an industrial society to almost a tribalistic society in a short span. The Walkers later became a side element (Almost like a bad weather) as the genre switched more from zombie survival to tribalistic groups fighting for control over what's left / a breath of normalcy. The show for me more or less became the below.
I read the comics for a bit and found them to be much worse than the show, but that's probably changed now as the show has lost track of what it's trying to do
It's obvious that Rosita wants to end her life just to get to Negan and finish the job. For Sasha to deny her what she wants is what we bird people call "a dick move."
I think Eugene is just a victim to his cowardice. Not necessarily that he's happy or okay "Being Negan."
And again, fucking progress the story please. Samurai Jack gets more done in 20 minutes than Walking Dead does in a whole season. What even is that?
I disagree with the bolded in KoopTroop's spoiler
I really think Eugene is terrified but playing a longer game. His machinations have always been long term, and I think he is also planning on doing what it takes to take out Negan; his plan on what to do after is what I haven't figured out. Is Geno going to try to replace Negan?
What machinations has he done so far? There's been the whole fake PhD thing--but that was for more immediate aid. He did it because he could convince a bunch of people to help him out. It never could've worked permanently, either they get to DC and he has to reveal the truth, they get to DC and there aren't any labs and scientists so he can keep up the lie but Abraham no longer has a need to give him a free ride, or they die.
I like Eugene, I want him to be a good guy, and I think in the end he'll do the right thing. Maybe he gets the opportunity to use those pills on someone. But right now I think he's trying to make the best of a bad situation.
It's obvious that Rosita wants to end her life just to get to Negan and finish the job. For Sasha to deny her what she wants is what we bird people call "a dick move."
I think Eugene is just a victim to his cowardice. Not necessarily that he's happy or okay "Being Negan."
And again, fucking progress the story please. Samurai Jack gets more done in 20 minutes than Walking Dead does in a whole season. What even is that?
I disagree with the bolded in KoopTroop's spoiler
I really think Eugene is terrified but playing a longer game. His machinations have always been long term, and I think he is also planning on doing what it takes to take out Negan; his plan on what to do after is what I haven't figured out. Is Geno going to try to replace Negan?
What machinations has he done so far? There's been the whole fake PhD thing--but that was for more immediate aid. He did it because he could convince a bunch of people to help him out. It never could've worked permanently, either they get to DC and he has to reveal the truth, they get to DC and there aren't any labs and scientists so he can keep up the lie but Abraham no longer has a need to give him a free ride, or they die.
I like Eugene, I want him to be a good guy, and I think in the end he'll do the right thing. Maybe he gets the opportunity to use those pills on someone. But right now I think he's trying to make the best of a bad situation.
He has
not only produced the poison pills, he has conspired with people who want to kill Negan to keep them secret, he has established himself to be an authority and someone to be obeyed, and he has turned away from rescue in order to stay in the Savior base.
Now, I'm not planting a flag and dying on this hill, I could very well be wrong. But it feels like they're intentionally setting him to be ambiguous in loyalty so that he can come through in a surprisingly heroic way.
0
ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
It's obvious that Rosita wants to end her life just to get to Negan and finish the job. For Sasha to deny her what she wants is what we bird people call "a dick move."
I think Eugene is just a victim to his cowardice. Not necessarily that he's happy or okay "Being Negan."
And again, fucking progress the story please. Samurai Jack gets more done in 20 minutes than Walking Dead does in a whole season. What even is that?
I disagree with the bolded in KoopTroop's spoiler
I really think Eugene is terrified but playing a longer game. His machinations have always been long term, and I think he is also planning on doing what it takes to take out Negan; his plan on what to do after is what I haven't figured out. Is Geno going to try to replace Negan?
What machinations has he done so far? There's been the whole fake PhD thing--but that was for more immediate aid. He did it because he could convince a bunch of people to help him out. It never could've worked permanently, either they get to DC and he has to reveal the truth, they get to DC and there aren't any labs and scientists so he can keep up the lie but Abraham no longer has a need to give him a free ride, or they die.
I like Eugene, I want him to be a good guy, and I think in the end he'll do the right thing. Maybe he gets the opportunity to use those pills on someone. But right now I think he's trying to make the best of a bad situation.
He has
not only produced the poison pills, he has conspired with people who want to kill Negan to keep them secret, he has established himself to be an authority and someone to be obeyed, and he has turned away from rescue in order to stay in the Savior base.
Now, I'm not planting a flag and dying on this hill, I could very well be wrong. But it feels like they're intentionally setting him to be ambiguous in loyalty so that he can come through in a surprisingly heroic way.
Eugene
in regards to not wanting to escape is making a smart decision.
If he escaped, he wouldn't be able to go back to Alexandria and would most likely make Negan really really pissed off at the Alexandrians. So by escaping he would be relegating himself to homelessness AND putting his friends in even more danger. I wouldn't escape either, even if I wanted to.
Now whether he is making that decision because its smart or doing it out of cowardice is another debate.
Which makes the actions of Rosita and Sasha even more stupid
because if they fail, then all their friends in Alexandria are going to pay a very steep price.
It's obvious that Rosita wants to end her life just to get to Negan and finish the job. For Sasha to deny her what she wants is what we bird people call "a dick move."
I think Eugene is just a victim to his cowardice. Not necessarily that he's happy or okay "Being Negan."
And again, fucking progress the story please. Samurai Jack gets more done in 20 minutes than Walking Dead does in a whole season. What even is that?
I disagree with the bolded in KoopTroop's spoiler
I really think Eugene is terrified but playing a longer game. His machinations have always been long term, and I think he is also planning on doing what it takes to take out Negan; his plan on what to do after is what I haven't figured out. Is Geno going to try to replace Negan?
What machinations has he done so far? There's been the whole fake PhD thing--but that was for more immediate aid. He did it because he could convince a bunch of people to help him out. It never could've worked permanently, either they get to DC and he has to reveal the truth, they get to DC and there aren't any labs and scientists so he can keep up the lie but Abraham no longer has a need to give him a free ride, or they die.
I like Eugene, I want him to be a good guy, and I think in the end he'll do the right thing. Maybe he gets the opportunity to use those pills on someone. But right now I think he's trying to make the best of a bad situation.
He has
not only produced the poison pills, he has conspired with people who want to kill Negan to keep them secret, he has established himself to be an authority and someone to be obeyed, and he has turned away from rescue in order to stay in the Savior base.
Now, I'm not planting a flag and dying on this hill, I could very well be wrong. But it feels like they're intentionally setting him to be ambiguous in loyalty so that he can come through in a surprisingly heroic way.
I don't see any of that as a long term plan. At every step, he was doing what he needed to to survive and not rock the boat at the moment. Why did he work with the women to keep the poison pills a secret? Because revealing them would be a great way to get himself on Negan's shit list, even if Negan did take his side against the women. Why did he establish himself as an authority? Because he had a spur of the moment opportunity to get himself power.
At each step, he's been reactionary, doing what provides him immediate benefit.
I do think that ultimately he'll end up doing something good for Team Rick, because this is a story and they wouldn't be spending as much time on this whole Eugene subplot if it's not going to have some result, but everything he's done so far has indicated that he's just a coward.
rosita and sasha's plan is the worst ever, once they abandon the sniping. the sniping is okay. alexandria probably wouldn't be first in line to get rekt by negan in the event of a failed sniping, because negan more or less thinks they have no guns and everybody wants negan dead
going in tho? yeah good plan you fucking idiots. there's already a going-in plan and you're just wrecking it by jumping the gun
of course i know they're upset and whatever but they've also both learnt the "you gotta not act rashly for revenge" lesson before. it's like the second or third lesson they teach in zombie class
also it's incredible how much this show spins its wheels now. the entire first half of the season was a transparent build up to deciding to fight, where everybody attempts to kill negan their own way and then they're like "nah we have to cooperate!" and now they're just...stuck in that episode because "decide to fight negan and fight and win" is the inevitable conclusion and there's only max 2 episodes of show to be found in that concept
I think Eugene is just the opposite of how Daryl handled being taken by the Saviors. Daryl's pride made him unable to just play along to live in comfort, so he chose a cell and horrible treatment rather than play along. Eugene realized if he played along he can just play Atari and boss people around and it's the best of a bad situation.
I don't think Eugene has some master plan for taking Negan down or anything, and his cowardice and just wanting to be safe/protected is definitely part of why he's doing what he's doing, but IMO he doesn't have any loyalty to Negan and will work against him as soon as he sees it really happening.
He's smart enough to know that just leaving with Sasha and Rosita just pisses Negan off even more and he'll just ransack every community looking for him, he'll have to hide, etc. It doesn't actually make any sense at all for Eugene to go back to Alexandria right now.
"decide to fight negan and fight and win" is the inevitable conclusion and there's only max 2 episodes of show to be found in that concept
Yeah, a couple of weeks ago I was wondering if they were planning on finishing Negan up this season. On one hand it seemed early, on the other hand it's clear what they're building up to... and are they honestly going to spend all next season on this?
I think the ideal scenario might be for them to end this season with the five non-Savior communities collectively deciding on war, a few more episodes of preparation, and then Negan captured or killed at the mid-season mark. Then we can get half a season of rebuilding or whatever and hinting at the next threat.
But even half a season will probably end up way too much, and I don't expect much interesting to happen for the next couple of episodes.
The show, for as much as it strays from the comics, is still trying to do justice to comic arcs. So they're just setting up all out war for next season. These last two episodes are just going to be more of that, with the finale ending on all the groups Rick has mobilized marching towards the compound or whatever.
Then at least the first 8 of next season will be the war itself.
I think I'd really like this season if I watched it on Netflix. It is infuriating week to week, because we know where this is heading. If I could watch all this in 2 days, I think I'd dig it a lot. Except this last episode. Those two are the most self centered assholes on the entire show, and that includes the guy who beats people with a bat for fun.
I was going to post that the last two episodes could have been compressed into one episode's cold open.
But that's not fair.
It would take at least a cold open plus until the second commercial break.
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KoopahTroopahThe koopas, the troopas.Philadelphia, PARegistered Userregular
I was surprised that they opened with
The walkers storming the woman's island beach, meanwhile Sasha's already been captured and is about to be raped by some douchebag before Negan "saves the day". I think they should have skipped the Tara/Rick conversation and walker opening, and just showed the group traveling while Sasha fails to invade the Saviors camp. Would have been much more entertaining than, "oh she got captured and is being converted."
Also, why would any of the women be afraid to leave some of the camp to join Rick's group? You just lost all you guns, if Old Granny doesn't want to fight and you do, screw that community and go where the guns go. Seemed like a way to just pay less extras on set.
Someone should remind the writers that Rick is the good guy.
Rick isn't a good guy though.
Rick is the protagonist and he's the least bad leader. Negan takes things a step further than Rick, but ultimately Rick has the same kind of philosophy--he's not really out to mindlessly kill people, but he is happy to use violence to achieve a purpose.
In last night's episode,
he made calculations--risking Alexandrian lives and threatening Oceanside was worth getting access to the guns, because he needs the garbage people's help. Risking Tara's life when she was taken hostage was worth it because standing down and giving up his own advantage could lead to a bad end for all.
He's not out killing people for personal power or anything, but some of the actions he takes to benefit his people would certainly be seen as villainous if you consider the other side's point of view.
Someone should remind the writers that Rick is the good guy.
Rick isn't a good guy though.
Rick is the protagonist and he's the least bad leader. Negan takes things a step further than Rick, but ultimately Rick has the same kind of philosophy--he's not really out to mindlessly kill people, but he is happy to use violence to achieve a purpose.
In last night's episode,
he made calculations--risking Alexandrian lives and threatening Oceanside was worth getting access to the guns, because he needs the garbage people's help. Risking Tara's life when she was taken hostage was worth it because standing down and giving up his own advantage could lead to a bad end for all.
He's not out killing people for personal power or anything, but some of the actions he takes to benefit his people would certainly be seen as villainous if you consider the other side's point of view.
Yeah, I understand that, and I think could make for an interesting comparison, but the show always makes Rick out to be in the right.
not only did he take oceanside's guns, but they are so impressed by his ability to kill zombies (that he lured in) that suddenly they want to join up with the guy Neganing them?
Maybe they are planning on going there, but Rick's "get on your knees" sure was played more as a positive than it should be.
He's always done what's needed to make sure he survives and is protected. From the point when he met Abraham and pretended to have a cure if only they could get to Washington to signing on as Negan.
He'll turn on Negan and the Saviors in the end. Not because it's right or good but because he knows that the alternative is living long enough to piss Negan off and get tossed in the oven (or any number of other unpleasant ways to die).
Oceanside
What kind of time table did they have to negotiate a meeting between Rick and the leader of Oceanside?
"Look, you got 45 seconds to convince them to come talk with me before we start blowing shit up and attracting every walker in a 15 mile radius right here.
"Sure, Rick, I got this. That'll be plenty of time to convince them to sign on to our all but suicidal crusade.
"Think you could do it in 30?
What kind of time table did they have to negotiate a meeting between Rick and the leader of Oceanside?
"Look, you got 45 seconds to convince them to come talk with me before we start blowing shit up and attracting every walker in a 15 mile radius right here.
"Sure, Rick, I got this. That'll be plenty of time to convince them to sign on to our all but suicidal crusade.
"Think you could do it in 30?
I thought the short timeline was for Tara's protection. They couldn't maintain sight of her after she went into the house.
I would love if the show had a descent arc for Rick and had him gradually turn into Negan. And then the series ended with a New Rick taking him out.
It won't happen. But it would make for a good way to close out the whole "the only way to survive is to be a bastard" nihilist arc they seem to favor.
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+2
Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
I would love if the show had a descent arc for Rick and had him gradually turn into Negan. And then the series ended with a New Rick taking him out.
It won't happen. But it would make for a good way to close out the whole "the only way to survive is to be a bastard" nihilist arc they seem to favor.
It seems to me that Rick is heading that way, albeit veeery slowly.
I haven't been keeping up with the comics, so I don't know what happens there with or after the Negan arc. I am left wondering where they go after this...
Rick becoming less and less humane is all part of the build up to the showdown with Negan, the guy who he would become if he kept going the way he is. Rick justifies the stuff he does the same way Negan does, he just hasn't reached "I kill my own people if they don't follow the rules" yet.
All of the long slow burn of Morgan and his pacifism is leading to Rick realizing that he has to be better than people like Negan.
It's why comic spoiler:
Negan is going in that cage Morgan built instead of being executed after they win the war.
So after 15 episodes of doing nothing, getting bullied by Neegan, trying and failing to get allies, getting a bunch of guns, getting a bunch of guns again, and rebellious individuals trying and failing to stand up to Neegan while chit-chatting aimlessly, I guess we'll have just one episode for getting all allies onboard, planning an attack, carrying out an attack, killing a bunch of key characters, overthrowing the saviors, and setting up a new world order.
I hope they fire whoever was writing this season and replace them with someone who knows that a season-long story arc means actually having the story take place bit by bit over the entire season, rather than compressing the story into a single episode with a 15-part prologue.
+3
Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
sweet summer child
they ain't getting half of that done tonight
Oh brilliant
+6
ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
Yeah we're gonna get a cliffhanger ending just as they assault the Saviors
Posts
This episode was a lot better than last week's. Hoping for a strong final 3 eps to close out the season and set us up for waaaaar.
I'm caught up to like -3 episodes from current.
Watching the recap of previous seasons really makes me appreciate the fact that we finally have actual communities now. Good communities. Where their leaders disagree on the right course of action, and for pretty reasonable reasons.
After watching the episode where Rick first proposes a military alliance with Ezekiel, I found myself pondering that, at length. What could you say? What could you possibly say to a leader to convince him to sacrifice his own people's lives for war? Yes, it's for a good reason, but how do you convince him, while being honest about the risks?
It's definitely more interesting than the Governor's story line, or basically anything until now. Stable communities in dangerous environments is, just, a fascinating thing for me.
I think one or several of the women will die this season.
Pretty much nothing happened.
At all.
I think Eugene is just a victim to his cowardice. Not necessarily that he's happy or okay "Being Negan."
And again, fucking progress the story please. Samurai Jack gets more done in 20 minutes than Walking Dead does in a whole season. What even is that?
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
The Governor, like all TWD villains, was just supposed to be the dark side of Rick at the time. The show starts with Shane; what if Rick tries to lead as a cop but also puts his family before anyone else. Then we got the Governor; what if Rick gives in to madness after Lori's death. Now we got Negan; what if Rick forces other communities to do as he says.
That's also why I felt kinda sorry for the Governor, he was doing some evil shit but he was also mentally ill and never acted rationally.
I disagree with the bolded in KoopTroop's spoiler
Its why I read the comics these days. The comics are a lot better than the show. Although I do want to remark that the pacing can be just as bad. (Going a couple months with nothing happening but plotting) but suddenly the author cranks it up and you can get two issues a month. (Dope as heck!)
I stopped watching the show around the Governor era, but it sounds like to me that the director/AMC forgot what made the comics soooo good is that the comics embraced how humanity drifted back from an industrial society to almost a tribalistic society in a short span. The Walkers later became a side element (Almost like a bad weather) as the genre switched more from zombie survival to tribalistic groups fighting for control over what's left / a breath of normalcy. The show for me more or less became the below.
Do we have rules for comic discussion besides not spoiling what hasn't happened in the show yet?
I like Eugene, I want him to be a good guy, and I think in the end he'll do the right thing. Maybe he gets the opportunity to use those pills on someone. But right now I think he's trying to make the best of a bad situation.
He has
Now, I'm not planting a flag and dying on this hill, I could very well be wrong. But it feels like they're intentionally setting him to be ambiguous in loyalty so that he can come through in a surprisingly heroic way.
Eugene
If he escaped, he wouldn't be able to go back to Alexandria and would most likely make Negan really really pissed off at the Alexandrians. So by escaping he would be relegating himself to homelessness AND putting his friends in even more danger. I wouldn't escape either, even if I wanted to.
Now whether he is making that decision because its smart or doing it out of cowardice is another debate.
Which makes the actions of Rosita and Sasha even more stupid
At each step, he's been reactionary, doing what provides him immediate benefit.
I do think that ultimately he'll end up doing something good for Team Rick, because this is a story and they wouldn't be spending as much time on this whole Eugene subplot if it's not going to have some result, but everything he's done so far has indicated that he's just a coward.
Agreed. I was getting pretty annoyed with them about that.
going in tho? yeah good plan you fucking idiots. there's already a going-in plan and you're just wrecking it by jumping the gun
of course i know they're upset and whatever but they've also both learnt the "you gotta not act rashly for revenge" lesson before. it's like the second or third lesson they teach in zombie class
also it's incredible how much this show spins its wheels now. the entire first half of the season was a transparent build up to deciding to fight, where everybody attempts to kill negan their own way and then they're like "nah we have to cooperate!" and now they're just...stuck in that episode because "decide to fight negan and fight and win" is the inevitable conclusion and there's only max 2 episodes of show to be found in that concept
I don't think Eugene has some master plan for taking Negan down or anything, and his cowardice and just wanting to be safe/protected is definitely part of why he's doing what he's doing, but IMO he doesn't have any loyalty to Negan and will work against him as soon as he sees it really happening.
He's smart enough to know that just leaving with Sasha and Rosita just pisses Negan off even more and he'll just ransack every community looking for him, he'll have to hide, etc. It doesn't actually make any sense at all for Eugene to go back to Alexandria right now.
I think the ideal scenario might be for them to end this season with the five non-Savior communities collectively deciding on war, a few more episodes of preparation, and then Negan captured or killed at the mid-season mark. Then we can get half a season of rebuilding or whatever and hinting at the next threat.
But even half a season will probably end up way too much, and I don't expect much interesting to happen for the next couple of episodes.
Then at least the first 8 of next season will be the war itself.
But that's not fair.
It would take at least a cold open plus until the second commercial break.
I can cut it down to 19 seconds:
edit: Version with the Walking Dead showrunners:
Also, why would any of the women be afraid to leave some of the camp to join Rick's group? You just lost all you guns, if Old Granny doesn't want to fight and you do, screw that community and go where the guns go. Seemed like a way to just pay less extras on set.
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
Rick isn't a good guy though.
Rick is the protagonist and he's the least bad leader. Negan takes things a step further than Rick, but ultimately Rick has the same kind of philosophy--he's not really out to mindlessly kill people, but he is happy to use violence to achieve a purpose.
In last night's episode,
He's not out killing people for personal power or anything, but some of the actions he takes to benefit his people would certainly be seen as villainous if you consider the other side's point of view.
Yeah, I understand that, and I think could make for an interesting comparison, but the show always makes Rick out to be in the right.
Maybe they are planning on going there, but Rick's "get on your knees" sure was played more as a positive than it should be.
He'll turn on Negan and the Saviors in the end. Not because it's right or good but because he knows that the alternative is living long enough to piss Negan off and get tossed in the oven (or any number of other unpleasant ways to die).
Oceanside
"Look, you got 45 seconds to convince them to come talk with me before we start blowing shit up and attracting every walker in a 15 mile radius right here.
"Sure, Rick, I got this. That'll be plenty of time to convince them to sign on to our all but suicidal crusade.
"Think you could do it in 30?
It won't happen. But it would make for a good way to close out the whole "the only way to survive is to be a bastard" nihilist arc they seem to favor.
Is all in the lean.
It seems to me that Rick is heading that way, albeit veeery slowly.
I haven't been keeping up with the comics, so I don't know what happens there with or after the Negan arc. I am left wondering where they go after this...
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All of the long slow burn of Morgan and his pacifism is leading to Rick realizing that he has to be better than people like Negan.
It's why comic spoiler:
So after 15 episodes of doing nothing, getting bullied by Neegan, trying and failing to get allies, getting a bunch of guns, getting a bunch of guns again, and rebellious individuals trying and failing to stand up to Neegan while chit-chatting aimlessly, I guess we'll have just one episode for getting all allies onboard, planning an attack, carrying out an attack, killing a bunch of key characters, overthrowing the saviors, and setting up a new world order.
I hope they fire whoever was writing this season and replace them with someone who knows that a season-long story arc means actually having the story take place bit by bit over the entire season, rather than compressing the story into a single episode with a 15-part prologue.
they ain't getting half of that done tonight