I remember one game in Warcraft 3 which had a mechanic I thought was really cool, there was an evil god and a good god in the middle of the map, and a bunch of players in a ring around them with extra gold mines and random minions spread out across the map, the gods in the middle had to convince the regular players to pledge to follow them. This, and buildings and other stuff the player could do, would give the gods resources they could use to provide units and bonuses to their followers or to damage or curse their enemies' followers. It was pretty cool.
heaven vs hell (i think) and there were a million iterations on it. it was super easy to just copy a map once you downloaded it, make minor tweaks and then re-release. similar to all the tower defenses.
I really liked a ww2 custom. It was a huge map and required 8 people. It always ended up taking like an hour. I think there was a Risk map too that was fun
I remember one game in Warcraft 3 which had a mechanic I thought was really cool, there was an evil god and a good god in the middle of the map, and a bunch of players in a ring around them with extra gold mines and random minions spread out across the map, the gods in the middle had to convince the regular players to pledge to follow them. This, and buildings and other stuff the player could do, would give the gods resources they could use to provide units and bonuses to their followers or to damage or curse their enemies' followers. It was pretty cool.
heaven vs hell (i think) and there were a million iterations on it. it was super easy to just copy a map once you downloaded it, make minor tweaks and then re-release. similar to all the tower defenses.
That was it. A really fun idea honestly.
Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
I remember one game in Warcraft 3 which had a mechanic I thought was really cool, there was an evil god and a good god in the middle of the map, and a bunch of players in a ring around them with extra gold mines and random minions spread out across the map, the gods in the middle had to convince the regular players to pledge to follow them. This, and buildings and other stuff the player could do, would give the gods resources they could use to provide units and bonuses to their followers or to damage or curse their enemies' followers. It was pretty cool.
heaven vs hell (i think) and there were a million iterations on it. it was super easy to just copy a map once you downloaded it, make minor tweaks and then re-release. similar to all the tower defenses.
That was it. A really fun idea honestly.
i don't know if it was the same map or one of the iterations, but it was expanded it to include all other sorts of pantheons
I'll admit I played a lot of the fastest possible map variations. It was like a completely separate metagame from the regular ladder maps. That was basically how I learned to do macro. Functionally infinite resources makes being able to create and move your units an important skill.
I'll admit I played a lot of the fastest possible map variations. It was like a completely separate metagame from the regular ladder maps. That was basically how I learned to do macro. Functionally infinite resources makes being able to create and move your units an important skill.
But entirely removes one of the most difficult elements of macro, IE, expanding.
People still do make 2nd command centers or whatever the race building is, the primary thing to consider is whether you want to take the time to make more workers which leaves you vulnerable to rushes, the decision just has an impact much sooner. The macro that comes into play is just that instead of having a small number of unit producing structures like in the ladder maps, in fmp games it isn't crazy to have like 40 buildings. Also, you have to defend your mineral line a lot, because everything is stacked so aoe can kill 30+ in a second, also the building itself cannot be replaced because of the rules on placement. So like I said, it is just completely different gameplay, that is still actually very balanced between the races.
People still do make 2nd command centers or whatever the race building is, the primary thing to consider is whether you want to take the time to make more workers which leaves you vulnerable to rushes, the decision just has an impact much sooner. The macro that comes into play is just that instead of having a small number of unit producing structures like in the ladder maps, in fmp games it isn't crazy to have like 40 buildings. Also, you have to defend your mineral line a lot, because everything is stacked so aoe can kill 30+ in a second, also the building itself cannot be replaced because of the rules on placement. So like I said, it is just completely different gameplay, that is still actually very balanced between the races.
Yeah, it certainly isn't some skill-less spamfest like some believe.
I just never really enjoyed it. You can't really starve your opponent out and that's a big part of Starcraft.
yeah, contain and starve doesnt really work like it does on regular maps. basically constant dropping/defending from drops while also doing the macro army stuff on a front is what each game boils down to. losing a stack of workers or even the main CC is game over a large majority of the time if you cant answer back quickly enough.
Holy shit that's way more impressive then I had originally thought. I guess I focused on the Archons in the release video and they are don't really show off the extent of the update the way the other units do.
I give them props that this new remastered version will be 100% compatible with playing against people using the standard version since they're the same code base. That's genius and awesome.
I'm also in the camp of leave it on it's own engine with the quirks and feel of the original, if people want to play SC2 they can play SC2.
...now where's my WC3 and D2 remakes?
I just hope the interclient play doesn't hamstring the multiplayer interface. I get that some people are nostiligica for old b.net but if you actually care about playing game the modern interfaces get you there in a much better way.
KoopahTroopahThe koopas, the troopas.Philadelphia, PARegistered Userregular
I would believe that they are intending to port both the Remaster and the original SC to the Blizzard App way of launching and multiplayer. Especially considering that "Battle.net" is no longer a thing.
I would believe that they are intending to port both the Remaster and the original SC to the Blizzard App way of launching and multiplayer. Especially considering that "Battle.net" is no longer a thing.
I don't understand how you can throw away that many years of branding just to modernize the application itself.
I would believe that they are intending to port both the Remaster and the original SC to the Blizzard App way of launching and multiplayer. Especially considering that "Battle.net" is no longer a thing.
I don't understand how you can throw away that many years of branding just to modernize the application itself.
it doesn't make much sense to me unless there is some confusion for the "average" person? to me battle.net and blizzard are synonymous. there has to be a legitimate reason because it's presumably a lot of work to A) convert everything re-brand everything
Battle.net hasn't really felt integral to their brand for a long time to me. It was a big part of my childhood, and I associate it really strongly with SC1, D2, and WC2 B.net edition (obviously). I don't remember it being as much of a thing with Warcraft 3, don't associate it with WoW at all, and I'm sure people who know Blizzard mostly for Hearthstone or Overwatch don't care at all. The ".net" thing could be seen as really outdated now-a-days, so I guess it at least kind of makes sense to me.
Playing through the Brood War campaign again will remind everyone that Blizzard basically ignored all character development from it and reset back to the end of the original campaign.
I'd say it's wasted potentional but the writing in SC2 is so broad that I don't think there was room for moving a character passed their archetype into something more intresting.
Kerrigan would have made a better villain then Amon though.
Playing through the Brood War campaign again will remind everyone that Blizzard basically ignored all character development from it and reset back to the end of the original campaign.
I'd say it's wasted potentional but the writing in SC2 is so broad that I don't think there was room for moving a character passed their archetype into something more intresting.
Kerrigan would have made a better villain then Amon though.
I kinda want to play through again to see this because I can't remember anything but the 10,000 foot view for be and I prefer the modern stuff to that
With SC2, they tried to get all "story tell-y" and correct, they changed the direction of some key characters to the extent that they just messed it up big time.
Both Raynor and Kerrigan were changed from being badasses at what they do, to some teen drama novel level of personality and character development.
Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
edited April 2017
Brood War spoilers
At the end of BW didn't she describe herself as "pretty much the Queen Bitch of the Universe"? She doesn't do much in WoL because she already won. She's just enjoying her gross fleshy throne until Raynor comes along and ruins everything / rescues her.
At the end of BW didn't she describe herself as "pretty much the Queen Bitch of the Universe"? She doesn't do much in WoL because she already won. She's just enjoying her gross fleshy throne until Raynor comes along and ruins everything / rescues her.
It's never too clear to me what Kerrigan wants for the Brood. I assume killing Arcturus is important to her, but it's never really expressed as a goal. BUT it should definitely be noted that she repeatedly states that she's aware of the Xel'Naga threat (or something like that) and she's preparing for it, which is possibly why she's not trying to murderize Arcturus. (And then she decides to anyways in HOTS, but whatever.)
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
SC2 retcons a lot and retroactively makes the Zerg less galactic overlord-y than they were.
Mengsk wasn't in anywhere near the strong position he's shown to have in SC2. The UED limps home with their tail between their legs after getting soundly thwomped by the Zerg, and they have far more military might than the Dominion.
The Protoss were fuuuuuuuuuuucked. Aiur overrun, Shakuras devastated by the activation of the Xel'Naga temple, Raszagal infested and no obvious leadership for the Dark Templar.
SC2 retcons a lot and retroactively makes the Zerg less galactic overlord-y than they were.
Mengsk wasn't in anywhere near the strong position he's shown to have in SC2. The UED limps home with their tail between their legs after getting soundly thwomped by the Zerg, and they have far more military might than the Dominion.
The Protoss were fuuuuuuuuuuucked. Aiur overrun, Shakuras devastated by the activation of the Xel'Naga temple, Raszagal infested and no obvious leadership for the Dark Templar.
SC2 retcons a lot and retroactively makes the Zerg less galactic overlord-y than they were.
Mengsk wasn't in anywhere near the strong position he's shown to have in SC2. The UED limps home with their tail between their legs after getting soundly thwomped by the Zerg, and they have far more military might than the Dominion.
The Protoss were fuuuuuuuuuuucked. Aiur overrun, Shakuras devastated by the activation of the Xel'Naga temple, Raszagal infested and no obvious leadership for the Dark Templar.
overlord-y how? i think i may just be misinterpreting you because that isn't something i'd use to describe the zerg unless i was making a supply pun
SC2 retcons a lot and retroactively makes the Zerg less galactic overlord-y than they were.
Mengsk wasn't in anywhere near the strong position he's shown to have in SC2. The UED limps home with their tail between their legs after getting soundly thwomped by the Zerg, and they have far more military might than the Dominion.
The Protoss were fuuuuuuuuuuucked. Aiur overrun, Shakuras devastated by the activation of the Xel'Naga temple, Raszagal infested and no obvious leadership for the Dark Templar.
Nononono. Re: Protoss
Raszagal fuckin cut to pieces by Zeratul
Afterwards yeah, but the impact of her being turned is huuuuuuuuuuge.
SC2 retcons a lot and retroactively makes the Zerg less galactic overlord-y than they were.
Mengsk wasn't in anywhere near the strong position he's shown to have in SC2. The UED limps home with their tail between their legs after getting soundly thwomped by the Zerg, and they have far more military might than the Dominion.
The Protoss were fuuuuuuuuuuucked. Aiur overrun, Shakuras devastated by the activation of the Xel'Naga temple, Raszagal infested and no obvious leadership for the Dark Templar.
overlord-y how? i think i may just be misinterpreting you because that isn't something i'd use to describe the zerg unless i was making a supply pun
"Galactic overlord" was a joke, but at the end of BW they're very clearly the preeminent power in the Koprulu Sector. SC2 puts things on a much more even footing.
SC2 retcons a lot and retroactively makes the Zerg less galactic overlord-y than they were.
Mengsk wasn't in anywhere near the strong position he's shown to have in SC2. The UED limps home with their tail between their legs after getting soundly thwomped by the Zerg, and they have far more military might than the Dominion.
The Protoss were fuuuuuuuuuuucked. Aiur overrun, Shakuras devastated by the activation of the Xel'Naga temple, Raszagal infested and no obvious leadership for the Dark Templar.
Nononono. Re: Protoss
Raszagal fuckin cut to pieces by Zeratul
Afterwards yeah, but the impact of her being turned is huuuuuuuuuuge.
SC2 retcons a lot and retroactively makes the Zerg less galactic overlord-y than they were.
Mengsk wasn't in anywhere near the strong position he's shown to have in SC2. The UED limps home with their tail between their legs after getting soundly thwomped by the Zerg, and they have far more military might than the Dominion.
The Protoss were fuuuuuuuuuuucked. Aiur overrun, Shakuras devastated by the activation of the Xel'Naga temple, Raszagal infested and no obvious leadership for the Dark Templar.
overlord-y how? i think i may just be misinterpreting you because that isn't something i'd use to describe the zerg unless i was making a supply pun
"Galactic overlord" was a joke, but at the end of BW they're very clearly the preeminent power in the Koprulu Sector. SC2 puts things on a much more even footing.
it's been a while since i played WoL but i didn't get that impression in SC2
the protoss were shattered, there were a few times where i recall those terran newscasts stating "it's been soooo looooong" since we saw the zerg, so everyone thought they were fine but kerrigan was doing whatever she was doing. or i could be remembering incorrectly.
tying it back to brood war
everything felt like it fitflowed to me. it was a long fuckin time since i've played BW though as mentioned so it could be i am filling in head canon rather than what actually happened
The overmind was the overlord-y type who controlled the zerg, expanding to new planets, etc., until Kerrigan came into the picture. She then was basically just getting back at everyone for screwing her over. BW ends with her being the strongest in the sector after finally getting everyone else to kill each other.
I don't think Kerrigan ever had any itention on taking over the universe in BW.
Looking forward to this. Always preferred BW over SC2.
BW had super hard counters. If someone with triple your income tried spamming a single unit at you, you had a realistic shot at beating it with smart counter play. Support unit spells were super powerful, so you had "assassin" units to take them out before your main force moved in, so you set up screening units to keep the assassins from getting through, so you tried to bait enemy screeners to pick them off, etc etc the dance goes on.
SC2 did away with powerful damage spells, and hard counters were dulled. Smart play let you maybe overcome a force 30% larger, but that was about it. No spell come close to rivaling psi storm, plague, irradiate, or spawn broodling. Someone with 50% your income or more was guaranteed to steamroll you.
SC2 didn't feel so much like smart tactical play as it did like you were simply grinding economies against each other.
I would believe that they are intending to port both the Remaster and the original SC to the Blizzard App way of launching and multiplayer. Especially considering that "Battle.net" is no longer a thing.
I don't understand how you can throw away that many years of branding just to modernize the application itself.
it doesn't make much sense to me unless there is some confusion for the "average" person? to me battle.net and blizzard are synonymous. there has to be a legitimate reason because it's presumably a lot of work to A) convert everything re-brand everything
I suspect that Hearthstone has reached far more non-gamer people than anything else they've ever made, and there is a lot of confusion about making a battle.net account instead of just a Hearthstone account. Naming the account after the company probably is an easier logic jump for those people.
+1
38thDoelets never be stupid againwait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered Userregular
Random line from the ending of broodwar semantic argument spoiler
When she gives herself the new title at the end of broodwar, I guess I expected Queen more in the Crusader Kings sense of monarchs with agency as opposed to the current royal family in the UK sense of existing but not really doing anything of note.
With SC2, they tried to get all "story tell-y" and correct, they changed the direction of some key characters to the extent that they just messed it up big time.
Both Raynor and Kerrigan were changed from being badasses at what they do, to some teen drama novel level of personality and character development.
I wonder how much of this is formed out of writing the big emotional moments first, then going back and filling out the buildup first. Cause (SCII endings)
WoL's ending, where the music swells in that kinda sad chanting as Jim kneels next to the deinfested Kerrigan, that is a fantastic moment.
And then HoS' ending, where Kerrigan floats off and Jim says "my pleasure, darling. Always was." Fantastic moment! I don't think they're really earned by any kind of build up though.
realizing that that the woman he loves has transformed into a terrible irredeemable monster and realizing he need to take some responsibility for it and kill her
is far more intresting for both Kerrigan and Raynor then the path they went SC2 which
never evolves Raynor past being a lovesick white knight and regresses Kerrigan into something more wishy washy.
You know, it could be that I am just choosing some more intresting games, but BW might just be more entertaining to watch then SC2. The game design encourages more cross map play and troop placement vs the big ball of death you get in SC2.
I think you are right about that. SC2's death ball play is what turns me off of the game, the battles just aren't satisfying since they almost always endup like that. BW you had units all over the place, was more interesting. Atleast that's what I remember.
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realizing that that the woman he loves has transformed into a terrible irredeemable monster and realizing he need to take some responsibility for it and kill her
is far more intresting for both Kerrigan and Raynor then the path they went SC2 which
never evolves Raynor past being a lovesick white knight and regresses Kerrigan into something more wishy washy.
Yup. I've said it before but SC2 seems to clearly be written by someone who hadn't played SC1 in like a decade, remembered almost nothing and who never bothered to even read the lore in the game or in the manual for the game.
It only kinda vaguely continues the story of SC1. It's like the only knew the broad strokes of the original narrative and forgot half of those.
I mean shit, SC1 actually implies Kerrigan/Raynor aren't a thing and that while he's infatuated with her, she's flattered but there isn't anything more going on. And Raynor's turn at the end of BW is a big character development for him that SC2 completely ignores.
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heaven vs hell (i think) and there were a million iterations on it. it was super easy to just copy a map once you downloaded it, make minor tweaks and then re-release. similar to all the tower defenses.
spectacular
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That was it. A really fun idea honestly.
i don't know if it was the same map or one of the iterations, but it was expanded it to include all other sorts of pantheons
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But entirely removes one of the most difficult elements of macro, IE, expanding.
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Yeah, it certainly isn't some skill-less spamfest like some believe.
I just never really enjoyed it. You can't really starve your opponent out and that's a big part of Starcraft.
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Those updated sprites look REAL good.
Can't wait to rip one for my profile pic.
Holy shit that's way more impressive then I had originally thought. I guess I focused on the Archons in the release video and they are don't really show off the extent of the update the way the other units do.
I just hope the interclient play doesn't hamstring the multiplayer interface. I get that some people are nostiligica for old b.net but if you actually care about playing game the modern interfaces get you there in a much better way.
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I don't understand how you can throw away that many years of branding just to modernize the application itself.
it doesn't make much sense to me unless there is some confusion for the "average" person? to me battle.net and blizzard are synonymous. there has to be a legitimate reason because it's presumably a lot of work to A) convert everything
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I'd say it's wasted potentional but the writing in SC2 is so broad that I don't think there was room for moving a character passed their archetype into something more intresting.
Kerrigan would have made a better villain then Amon though.
I kinda want to play through again to see this because I can't remember anything but the 10,000 foot view for be and I prefer the modern stuff to that
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Both Raynor and Kerrigan were changed from being badasses at what they do, to some teen drama novel level of personality and character development.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
The Protoss were fuuuuuuuuuuucked. Aiur overrun, Shakuras devastated by the activation of the Xel'Naga temple, Raszagal infested and no obvious leadership for the Dark Templar.
Nononono. Re: Protoss
overlord-y how? i think i may just be misinterpreting you because that isn't something i'd use to describe the zerg unless i was making a supply pun
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"Galactic overlord" was a joke, but at the end of BW they're very clearly the preeminent power in the Koprulu Sector. SC2 puts things on a much more even footing.
it's been a while since i played WoL but i didn't get that impression in SC2
tying it back to brood war
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I don't think Kerrigan ever had any itention on taking over the universe in BW.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
BW had super hard counters. If someone with triple your income tried spamming a single unit at you, you had a realistic shot at beating it with smart counter play. Support unit spells were super powerful, so you had "assassin" units to take them out before your main force moved in, so you set up screening units to keep the assassins from getting through, so you tried to bait enemy screeners to pick them off, etc etc the dance goes on.
SC2 did away with powerful damage spells, and hard counters were dulled. Smart play let you maybe overcome a force 30% larger, but that was about it. No spell come close to rivaling psi storm, plague, irradiate, or spawn broodling. Someone with 50% your income or more was guaranteed to steamroll you.
SC2 didn't feel so much like smart tactical play as it did like you were simply grinding economies against each other.
I suspect that Hearthstone has reached far more non-gamer people than anything else they've ever made, and there is a lot of confusion about making a battle.net account instead of just a Hearthstone account. Naming the account after the company probably is an easier logic jump for those people.
I wonder how much of this is formed out of writing the big emotional moments first, then going back and filling out the buildup first. Cause (SCII endings)
And then HoS' ending, where Kerrigan floats off and Jim says "my pleasure, darling. Always was." Fantastic moment! I don't think they're really earned by any kind of build up though.
I am actually pumped for the re release. I can't wait to get on there and just get torn apart by people way way better at this game then I am.
Yup. I've said it before but SC2 seems to clearly be written by someone who hadn't played SC1 in like a decade, remembered almost nothing and who never bothered to even read the lore in the game or in the manual for the game.
It only kinda vaguely continues the story of SC1. It's like the only knew the broad strokes of the original narrative and forgot half of those.
I mean shit, SC1 actually implies Kerrigan/Raynor aren't a thing and that while he's infatuated with her, she's flattered but there isn't anything more going on. And Raynor's turn at the end of BW is a big character development for him that SC2 completely ignores.