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Nothing Can Stop the [MARVEL]naut!
Centipede Damascus
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Guardians of the Galaxy vol. 2 - May 5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duGqrYw4usE
Spider-Man: Homecoming - July 7th
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9DwoQ7HWvI
Thor: Ragnarok - November 3rd
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7MGUNV8MxU
And don't forget Cloak and Dagger - Coming 2018!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5hrFVQiGyk
IT'S NEVER GOING TO END!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duGqrYw4usESpider-Man: Homecoming - July 7th
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9DwoQ7HWvIThor: Ragnarok - November 3rd
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7MGUNV8MxUAnd don't forget Cloak and Dagger - Coming 2018!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5hrFVQiGykIT'S NEVER GOING TO END!
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Hail :hydra:
It's a bit ambiguous honestly because the opening of the issue involves the secret leader of Hydra in 1945 implying that the current Marvel universe is altered but we still don't know how much of it is Kobik and Red Skull fuckery.
Bottom line, it's not 100 percent certain Steve has been Hydra all along.
They're kinda doing this inversion thing well though. They're not shying away from the politics of it.
Does it really matter?
Let's Play Final Fantasy 'II' (Ch10 - 5/17/10)
Spencer is now teasing that the alternate history presented so far after the Kobik incident in Standoff is the real history, only changed by the Allies using the Cube. That's what's pissing everyone off.
However, nothing will be known for sure till Steve gets hold of Kobik again, which is a big plot point now in SE.
It's not that they're doing something that's obviously going to get reversed. It's that what they're doing with making Captain America a Hydra supporter with huge Nazi overtones, undertones, and sometimes just tones, is hitting at a time when a lot of people are dealing with the rise of White Nationalism in the US and abroad. And people just don't want to deal with that in the comics too.
And on top of that Marvel and Spencer have been making comments about how they aren't going to make this political. So on top of Cap turning nazi we aren't even getting an attempt at satire out of it, much less a good pick-me-up thing about 'nations going through hard times and the American spirit persevering and it being above what America is now' that people kind of look to Captain America for.
And that kind of makes it feel like more of a betrayal because this is the comic character who was created to convince the US to enter the war against Nazis when the nation was actually looking like it might tip the other way. This was the character who refused Nixon after Watergate broke. This is exactly the kind of character who is built to make political statements about the state of America.
And they aren't even going to let Sam Wilson take that stand as Captain America instead of Steve.
It's poorly timed, and just seems so empty when people are looking for the comics to say and be more.
http://www.polygon.com/comics/2017/4/18/15327018/secret-empire-explained
Well it seems like there's more going on with that then what was seen at the end of Secret Wars considering Ultimate Reed Richards' post-SW status not to mention what's happening in the Ultimates' title.
Let's Play Final Fantasy 'II' (Ch10 - 5/17/10)
Let's Play Final Fantasy 'II' (Ch10 - 5/17/10)
mostly it's just that okay, if this story isn't about all these political/ideological issues... what is it about and why should I care? When the villain is red skull, zemo or any of the other villains who've helmed hydra at one time or another we basically know what they want: to rule the world or at least a large chunk of it in classic totalitarian style. We're given to understand that HydraCap wants to do something different, but what that is it? Should we find it remotely sympathetic? Who knows!
I kinda think they fell into the same trap that Vote Loki did; seemed like a neat pitch, but then got overtaken by current events. Vote Loki was just a short mini so whatever but this story couldn't be similarly abandoned
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
But the central plot is so diametrically opposed to what I want out of comics right now that the well designed flow of the event doesn't matter that much to me
Maybe in a few years I will want to sit down and read it and I'll really enjoy it, but 2017 ain't that time for me
It had some fantastic moments, but did the book get unexpectedly cancelled or something? The last issue of it wrapped up everything far too quickly in a very unsatisfying way, not to mention that it never got to the big plot event it kept building towards.
Eh, basic competence of structure should not be a selling point
To each their own, I think Spencer has done a great job setting the whole thing up along with the execution so far.
it's not like marvel is touting it on some PR tour; a fan or critic saying it's structured well is a fine selling point
This is the part that worries me and others, cause unless something happens in the main story to dissuade it Steve really has been Hydra all along.
But it's also possible the dark forces that have been revealed to be behind Hydra has manipulated the whole chain of events to make sure Steve is Hydra.
Tony has a well established history of being a supervillain, yeah
Literally any character other than Steve Rogers (or Sam Wilson) and I would be pretty down with this event
Literally any other character than the one that represents American ideals
Actual Supervillain Tony would more likely have a plan to kill all the Nazis after he won though. Because he isn't stupid enough to trust Hydra in any form.
But the reason it's the best structured even since Infinity is because all of the evwnts since then have been, regardless of quality, quite badly put together.
Secret Wars?
Like, I genuinely think Secret Empire is set up very smart and in a way that will organically incorporate most of the Marvel Universe
Like ok. On paper I think there is definitely an interesting story in discovering your heroes, your country, and what not are in fact fascists. Nazis, really. And how to go forward knowing those ramifications, and how you fight something as entrenched as that it might turn out to be. It's frighteningly relevant and potentially cathartic and engaging. But it really requires a confidence of storytelling to really go all in. You also need to really sit down and think it through, because well politically tumultuous stories need a fine (and knowledgable) hand. Also, if you are doing this as an serial comic, you have to realize using your cliffhangers is potentially dangerous. Also that it can swing into looking like support of fascism on a dime, regardless of your intentions. (basically don't do it as a monthly comic dummy)
But. and this is a huge fucking BUT like oh my god becky
Some of the audience won't be able to buy into your premise at any level. And that's their prerogative. I don't care how much of a critical indie darling you are. Some people will not be able to get over the anxieties and problematic territory you are running into. If you are confident in the story, fine. Whatever tell it I guess. But you can't expect the same level of confidence in your story. That's a risk, and that's really storytelling. You do something risky. And those come with consequences. And the audience is in no way wrong not to want to buy into things on just a premise level. Especially when you are doing a hard turn. But if you are really confident this story will be worth it in the end, you put your head down and work.
What you don't fucking do. What you don't fucking do it all is dig your heels and shout at every person who has issues with the comic. You don't tweet search your name to retweet it with some snide bullshit. You don't conflate people pointing out that this might be distasteful with the comic nerds saying they want to punch you. You don't fucking comment on every review with "Well they don't fucking understand real politics" or "The true threat to our times is freedom of speech" or whatever. You gotta fucking understand you are doing an ugly story in ugly times. You have to look at the optics of who the owner of your company supports my dude. Have confidence in your work if it isn't a comic designed only for courting controversy (which I'm not sure it's anything but that, but whatever) Just release a simple statement (well too late now really) That you "understand the issues one might have with this story, I hope that many have confidence that I will navigate it carefully. For those unable to, I understand. But given the nature of serial storytelling and the tumultuous nature of the arc I will draw back from commentary on the story until it is completed" Then delete twitter from your phone for the summer. Will that solve the problems folks have and turn them to your side? No, and it probably shouldn't. But what it will do is at least stop you from saying stupid stuff while tripping over yourself to defend your story. the "Hydra aren't nazis" and whatever.
Though really. It's probably just a better idea to not turn Captain America into a Nazi for a summer event premise.
Secret Wars was great, but there were so many titles going in and out of being part of the narrative, and also at the end the new status quo began before all the Secret Wars titles were done that I think it wasn't done well.
If that isn't what we're talking about then yes, I agree, because that was basically one of the only things Secret Wars dropped the ball on.
Another part of the problem is that the main throughline of Marvel comics for about a decade have been the heroes fighting the heroes. Now, as you say, you can write a comic about that. But it comes with many of the problems you talk about, but those problems have basically been normalized within the Marvel Comics zeitgeist now, so it's rather hard to mitigate them. (Not withstanding the quality of those stories which has been variable from eh to... not great)
Essentially, if you're going to call them heroes, at some point they have to at least act like adults, and do something heroic.
Otherwise it might just look like an excuse to continue to justify having people who are supposed to be on the same team and doing good acting like jerks and punching eachother.