XCOM is a tactics game at its core. You're supposed to find the problem, attempt to solve it from an angle or two, decide which one is either: the best or the least likely to get someone killed or injured, and choose one.
The problem with LW2 is that it forces you to solve every problem by the fastest solution. And XCOM has never, ever been a game about speed. It's been a game about deliberation and positioning. When you spawn into an LW2 mission and have 8 turns to move your squad of 6 people to the LZ, and it takes a straight up 6 turns of nothing but yellow moves to even make the LZ? That leaves ONE TURN of combat.
It is not a good mod. It has a lot of good ideas, at its core, but it really just warps the way you're supposed to play XCOM into something completely......
Alien.
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Indie Winterdie KräheRudi Hurzlmeier (German, b. 1952)Registered Userregular
but when the core game has the mission time limit built into it, how different is it really
but when the core game has the mission time limit built into it, how different is it really
That LW2 makes maps twice as big but doesn't adjust the turn counter. It, in fact, makes it random how many turns you actually get in the first place based on when you discover the mission and how well you "infiltrate" it. It's really a very, very stark jump in difficulty. And it's not even realistic difficulty. It's like trying to defeat Ocarina of Time Ganondorf in the first dungeon of Zelda 1. You can't even act in 3 dimensions to kill him properly. Sure, they're both Zelda games, but it's not reasonable to expect Zelda 1's Link to do that.
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Indie Winterdie KräheRudi Hurzlmeier (German, b. 1952)Registered Userregular
I might consider installing LW2 again but with a mod that also disables the timer. give me a fucking moment to breath, why don't you
Like, I get that being difficult is part of the XCom "mystique" or "flavor", or whatever the fuck
But having played the original, I do not feel like it was integral to the experience at all, and sure as shut don't think it needed to be dialed up in Long War.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited April 2017
Meh. The timers were obviously put in to dissuade against the "park your squad way back while you slowly activate pods" style that was popular in the previous entry.
Now you can still activate pods one by one but you have to be quicker about it.
I never cheesed squadsight to begin with so it didn't bother me.
I haven't played LW but I felt like the timers were a cheap way to solve that problem in the base game. But they weren't too bad in that and fit the setting so I didn't mind them a whole lot. I sure as shit don't want them dialed up to 11 though.
the difficulty in x-com is kind of incidental. It's more arcane than hard, once you understand the how and why of the game, it's not really harder than most games of the era.
but it being hard became the meme around the game so it's the part that gets remembered. Like dark souls, but on a longer time scale. and less "git gud".
it's kind of the reason i don't like XCom as much as x-com. XCom is a fairly straight forward game, it has depth and it's a good game, but it's not as weird or arcane as the original and instead trades it in for a far more friendly and structured game. and that's probably a real good thing but isn't the aspects of x-com i fell in love with.
This said, i would literally murder a man for a remake of Darklands.
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Indie Winterdie KräheRudi Hurzlmeier (German, b. 1952)Registered Userregular
Hell, Yes gimme a Darklands remake
keep all the game mechanics exactly the same, just update the graphics
while you're at it do the same for King of Dragon Pass
I feel like XCom 2 does a little better adding some of that "arcanery" back in, but I definitely thought they cut too deep with the original. I guess some of the Enemy Within stuff helped.
Not sure if anyone noticed, but the Fig crowdfunding campaign for Julian "X-Com" Gollops new game Phoenix Point is now up and running. For my money it looks like the games that the reboot XCOMs could have been if they were a bit more ambitious. Rock Paper Shotgun did some nice previews:
Not sure if anyone noticed, but the Fig crowdfunding campaign for Julian "X-Com" Gollops new game Phoenix Point is now up and running. For my money it looks like the games that the reboot XCOMs could have been if they were a bit more ambitious. Rock Paper Shotgun did some nice previews:
I'm excited for Phoenix Point, and I will likely play it.
That being said, there are some things about it that I'm glad the XCOM reboots haven't done. Most of all, procedural enemies seem like a great idea but a poor fit for XCOM. Some people have complained about X2's maps, saying that the procedural generation robs them of a certain individual and unique character. You'll never see somebody complaining about Murder Street in X2, or the Burger King map.
I think Phoenix Point's procedural enemies will likely have a similar effect on the way we relate to the enemy. You'll never hear anybody complaining about "fucking Thin Men" or "oh my god no Chryssalids". I think procedural enemies will work well for the "unknowable, formless foe from beyond the deep" thing that Phoenix Point is trying for, but I think they would have been an extremely poor fit for the XCOM universe.
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I was thinking of playing again, but I'll wait a bit
too dang difficult
it's just not fun
Beaglerush summed up LW2 very well.
XCOM is a tactics game at its core. You're supposed to find the problem, attempt to solve it from an angle or two, decide which one is either: the best or the least likely to get someone killed or injured, and choose one.
The problem with LW2 is that it forces you to solve every problem by the fastest solution. And XCOM has never, ever been a game about speed. It's been a game about deliberation and positioning. When you spawn into an LW2 mission and have 8 turns to move your squad of 6 people to the LZ, and it takes a straight up 6 turns of nothing but yellow moves to even make the LZ? That leaves ONE TURN of combat.
It is not a good mod. It has a lot of good ideas, at its core, but it really just warps the way you're supposed to play XCOM into something completely......
Alien.
That LW2 makes maps twice as big but doesn't adjust the turn counter. It, in fact, makes it random how many turns you actually get in the first place based on when you discover the mission and how well you "infiltrate" it. It's really a very, very stark jump in difficulty. And it's not even realistic difficulty. It's like trying to defeat Ocarina of Time Ganondorf in the first dungeon of Zelda 1. You can't even act in 3 dimensions to kill him properly. Sure, they're both Zelda games, but it's not reasonable to expect Zelda 1's Link to do that.
the timers in LW are like a jet engine under your butt and your butt is on fire and ow ow ow
But having played the original, I do not feel like it was integral to the experience at all, and sure as shut don't think it needed to be dialed up in Long War.
Now you can still activate pods one by one but you have to be quicker about it.
I never cheesed squadsight to begin with so it didn't bother me.
but it being hard became the meme around the game so it's the part that gets remembered. Like dark souls, but on a longer time scale. and less "git gud".
it's kind of the reason i don't like XCom as much as x-com. XCom is a fairly straight forward game, it has depth and it's a good game, but it's not as weird or arcane as the original and instead trades it in for a far more friendly and structured game. and that's probably a real good thing but isn't the aspects of x-com i fell in love with.
This said, i would literally murder a man for a remake of Darklands.
keep all the game mechanics exactly the same, just update the graphics
while you're at it do the same for King of Dragon Pass
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2017/04/25/phoenix-point-crowdfunding-interview/
Already half funded after less than a day live...
I'm excited for Phoenix Point, and I will likely play it.
That being said, there are some things about it that I'm glad the XCOM reboots haven't done. Most of all, procedural enemies seem like a great idea but a poor fit for XCOM. Some people have complained about X2's maps, saying that the procedural generation robs them of a certain individual and unique character. You'll never see somebody complaining about Murder Street in X2, or the Burger King map.
I think Phoenix Point's procedural enemies will likely have a similar effect on the way we relate to the enemy. You'll never hear anybody complaining about "fucking Thin Men" or "oh my god no Chryssalids". I think procedural enemies will work well for the "unknowable, formless foe from beyond the deep" thing that Phoenix Point is trying for, but I think they would have been an extremely poor fit for the XCOM universe.
Not going to happen until the voice actors strike is resolved.