I swear, the people who were the worst about that (not conceding so you got blackmailed into giving them a win otherwise you get a tie) always seemed to be freaking Scorpion players.
Yeah, there was an unfortunately large segment of the Scorpion player base who justified being a dick as "just roleplaying their clan".
They're not flawless designers but one thing they definitely know how to do is get people to engage with the fuckin' conflict mechanics.
The issue with the CCG wasn't that people didn't want to get into conflict.
Mmm well... I'm not sure this is one-hundred percent true. Back in Gold edition Sneak Attack + Deadly Ground was a common response to defensive players blocking. This effectively ended the action phase before it every started. And you never, EVER attacked against a military player without a Rallying Cry in hand to unbow your all personality. Basically avoiding conflict was how you won the game. You never attacked unless you knew with certainty it was risk free.
I swear, the people who were the worst about that (not conceding so you got blackmailed into giving them a win otherwise you get a tie) always seemed to be freaking Scorpion players.
Mmm well... I'd take offense to that but there were a lot of edgelord shitbags who were attracted to the clan. We mostly chased them off the boards but they still came to events.
Mikey CTS on
// PSN: wyrd_warrior // MHW Name: Josei //
+1
FaranguI am a beardy manWith a beardy planRegistered Userregular
So most important question: who here is going to Gencon and can grab a set for me?
They're not flawless designers but one thing they definitely know how to do is get people to engage with the fuckin' conflict mechanics.
The issue with the CCG wasn't that people didn't want to get into conflict.
Mmm well... I'm not sure this is one-hundred percent true. Back in Gold edition Sneak Attack + Deadly Ground was a common response to defensively players blocking. This effectively ended the action phase before it every started. And you never, EVER attacked against a military player without a Rallying Cry in hand to unbow your all personality. Basically avoiding conflict was how you won the game. You never attacked unless you knew with certainty it was risk free.
This got better in Diamond but not by much.
You're kind of talking ancient history here, though. Rallying Cry, Deadly Ground, Night Battle (the poor man's Deadly Ground)... none of these cards were legal for the last 10-15 years of the game's existence. CCG design sucked in the late 90's. I mean, you could theoretically win by playing just one card back then, if you were fortunate enough to be facing a Lion player and you drew a Breach of Etiquette in your opening hand. They got much better later (even Diamond is pretty early in the game's history).
Also, I'm not sure that we're talking about the same thing. Players will always prefer to take the path that most limits their opponents ability to take actions against them, regardless of the game. I kind of consider that different from conflict mechanics, since I always tried to pull off the Sneak Attack + Deadly Ground combo and I *loved* the combat in the game.
They're not flawless designers but one thing they definitely know how to do is get people to engage with the fuckin' conflict mechanics.
The issue with the CCG wasn't that people didn't want to get into conflict.
Mmm well... I'm not sure this is one-hundred percent true. Back in Gold edition Sneak Attack + Deadly Ground was a common response to defensively players blocking. This effectively ended the action phase before it every started. And you never, EVER attacked against a military player without a Rallying Cry in hand to unbow your all personality. Basically avoiding conflict was how you won the game. You never attacked unless you knew with certainty it was risk free.
This got better in Diamond but not by much.
You're kind of talking ancient history here, though. Rallying Cry, Deadly Ground, Night Battle (the poor man's Deadly Ground)... none of these cards were legal for the last 10-15 years of the game's existence. CCG design sucked in the late 90's. I mean, you could theoretically win by playing just one card back then, if you were fortunate enough to be facing a Lion player and you drew a Breach of Etiquette in your opening hand. They got much better later (even Diamond is pretty early in the game's history).
Man, that makes me feel old. While I went through bouts of collecting the game from Anvil of Despair through early Ivory, it was Hidden Emperor/Pearl/Gold era where I was playing in tournaments locally almost every weekend.
It'll be weird not saving booster packs for koku to turn in, but not having to chase down those expensive rare holdings or actions that everyone wants in their decks is a fair trade.
I swear, the people who were the worst about that (not conceding so you got blackmailed into giving them a win otherwise you get a tie) always seemed to be freaking Scorpion players.
Yeah, there was an unfortunately large segment of the Scorpion player base who justified being a dick as "just roleplaying their clan".
Ok, good. So it was "in character" that I just felt smarter and better than everyone as a Dragon player.
I swear, the people who were the worst about that (not conceding so you got blackmailed into giving them a win otherwise you get a tie) always seemed to be freaking Scorpion players.
Yeah, there was an unfortunately large segment of the Scorpion player base who justified being a dick as "just roleplaying their clan".
Ok, good. So it was "in character" that I just felt smarter and better than everyone as a Dragon player.
I swear, the people who were the worst about that (not conceding so you got blackmailed into giving them a win otherwise you get a tie) always seemed to be freaking Scorpion players.
Yeah, there was an unfortunately large segment of the Scorpion player base who justified being a dick as "just roleplaying their clan".
Ok, good. So it was "in character" that I just felt smarter and better than everyone as a Dragon player.
Shouldn't that be Crane?
Dunno, "smart and arrogant" is kind of the Phoenix hallmark, I think.
0
admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
Maybe the lesson here is that when your game is about noble houses, most of them are going to see themselves as "smart" and be seen by others as "arrogant."
I swear, the people who were the worst about that (not conceding so you got blackmailed into giving them a win otherwise you get a tie) always seemed to be freaking Scorpion players.
Yeah, there was an unfortunately large segment of the Scorpion player base who justified being a dick as "just roleplaying their clan".
Ok, good. So it was "in character" that I just felt smarter and better than everyone as a Dragon player.
Shouldn't that be Crane?
Dunno, "smart and arrogant" is kind of the Phoenix hallmark, I think.
But actually being that arrogant is definitely a Crane thing.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds.2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
0
Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
so as someone who knows almost nothing about L5r, except what I gleaned from reading Oriental Adventures like fifteen years ago, this game looks pretty rad
also all the clans are neat, they're all really distinct and exciting
+1
Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
also there's a good chance I'm going to gen con this year so I'll be able to get it before Seattle distributors have a chance to not get any copies
I Just noticed there is no flavor text on any of the cards we've seen up to now. I guess they must be deliberately holding it back since story is such a major component of the game.
I bet it's going to be hilarious watching someone accidentally dishonoring themselves out on a 5-0 honor bid for card draw. You just *know* someone is going to get greedy and try to do it.
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0
admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
I bet it's going to be hilarious watching someone accidentally dishonoring themselves out on a 5-0 honor bid for card draw. You just *know* someone is going to get greedy and try to do it.
Imagine the finals table where one player has a huge incentive to bid five while sitting on five honor and there's this long, mental game of rock-paper-scissors before they finally put down and flip their dials revealing the 5-0 bid.
Yes, the bottom right of a stronghold is influence for the conflict deck.
You can choose which of your 5 provinces will be put under the stronghold, and the order of the other 4.
You start the game with 4 conflict cards in hand.
During the dynasty phase, you take turns playing characters or actions, like SW Destiny or W40K: Conquest. First to pass gets a fate, but cannot play more characters or take any actions that phase.
Holdings are powerful, but eat up a province, basically - if you have a holding, you can't play characters from there.
When you play a character from a province, you refill it with a face-down dynasty card without looking at it -- it will be flipped face up next dynasty phase.
You can only have 1 copy of a unique character in play at a given time. If another copy shows up in a province or your hand, you MAY discard it to add 1 fate to the existing character.
Draw phase for conflict cards works as previously described, but there is no max hand size for your conflict hand.
The parable of the Scorpion and the Frog still defines the Scorpion clan.
Phoenix screw around with the claimed ring and its orientation in a conflict.
Honor/dishonor cards are the mini sized tokens, as was speculated.
The imperial favor will be a full sized card, that will grant a bonus to military or political strength the following turn (and is begging for a custom token)
Imperial favor is based on a combination of claimed rings and glory on a character.
When you don't claim a ring for conflict, fate will stack up on it until it is claimed - and the dragon play off this.
During the regroup phase, you may voluntarily discard cards at your provinces.. unless the province is broken. In that case, you MUST discard whatever card is face-up on the province.
Also the Imperial Favor is claimed sort of like Dominance from AGOT, where you total up the total glory on your unbowed characters and add a bonus of the number of rings you claimed that round.
Which, unlike the old version, means everyone can be interested in it since it's not keying off your family honor being the highest.
PMAvers on
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I'm a little disappointed that, judging by the cards we've seen so far, there doesn't seem to be any real difference between military and political conflicts.
0
AthenorBattle Hardened OptimistThe Skies of HiigaraRegistered Userregular
I'm a little disappointed that, judging by the cards we've seen so far, there doesn't seem to be any real difference between military and political conflicts.
Mechanically, no. But there is a lot of design space there. We have already seen effects that play off the conflict type, for instance, as well as the ring.
So over in reddit land, someone brought up an interesting theory. What if those 5 personality cards are part of a multiplayer mode? While none has been announced, all the templating implies multiplayer compatibility. And I was wondering why the game included so many honor tokens when I can't imagine any way to have that many characters on the field at once... At least, not for two players.
And I was wondering why the game included so many honor tokens when I can't imagine any way to have that many characters on the field at once... At least, not for two players.
There are 50 honor tokens because you win an honor victory at 25 honor and there are two players.
Did you perhaps mean fate tokens instead? Even then, 20 fate tokens per player doesn't seem too excessive to me.
And I was wondering why the game included so many honor tokens when I can't imagine any way to have that many characters on the field at once... At least, not for two players.
There are 50 honor tokens because you win an honor victory at 25 honor and there are two players.
Did you perhaps mean fate tokens instead? Even then, 20 fate tokens per player doesn't seem too excessive to me.
I assumed the honor victory was measured with the honor dials, and the honor tokens were some separate thing.
And I was wondering why the game included so many honor tokens when I can't imagine any way to have that many characters on the field at once... At least, not for two players.
There are 50 honor tokens because you win an honor victory at 25 honor and there are two players.
Did you perhaps mean fate tokens instead? Even then, 20 fate tokens per player doesn't seem too excessive to me.
I assumed the honor victory was measured with the honor dials, and the honor tokens were some separate thing.
The honor dials are the dials that look like lacquerware boxes and are used for duels and showing how many cards you're going to draw from your conflict deck. Their numbers only go from one to five.
Huh, interesting. Apparently they updated the article, and you only discard face-up cards from a broken province. Face-down cards still stick around so you aren't bleeding out as bad.
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0
AthenorBattle Hardened OptimistThe Skies of HiigaraRegistered Userregular
And I was wondering why the game included so many honor tokens when I can't imagine any way to have that many characters on the field at once... At least, not for two players.
There are 50 honor tokens because you win an honor victory at 25 honor and there are two players.
Did you perhaps mean fate tokens instead? Even then, 20 fate tokens per player doesn't seem too excessive to me.
Oh, duh. For some reason I was thinking of the honor/dishonor cards we've seen.
Posts
Yeah, there was an unfortunately large segment of the Scorpion player base who justified being a dick as "just roleplaying their clan".
Mmm well... I'm not sure this is one-hundred percent true. Back in Gold edition Sneak Attack + Deadly Ground was a common response to defensive players blocking. This effectively ended the action phase before it every started. And you never, EVER attacked against a military player without a Rallying Cry in hand to unbow your all personality. Basically avoiding conflict was how you won the game. You never attacked unless you knew with certainty it was risk free.
This got better in Diamond but not by much.
Mmm well... I'd take offense to that but there were a lot of edgelord shitbags who were attracted to the clan. We mostly chased them off the boards but they still came to events.
Let me throw money at you.
Chicago Megagame group
Watch me struggle to learn streaming! Point and laugh!
You're kind of talking ancient history here, though. Rallying Cry, Deadly Ground, Night Battle (the poor man's Deadly Ground)... none of these cards were legal for the last 10-15 years of the game's existence. CCG design sucked in the late 90's. I mean, you could theoretically win by playing just one card back then, if you were fortunate enough to be facing a Lion player and you drew a Breach of Etiquette in your opening hand. They got much better later (even Diamond is pretty early in the game's history).
Also, I'm not sure that we're talking about the same thing. Players will always prefer to take the path that most limits their opponents ability to take actions against them, regardless of the game. I kind of consider that different from conflict mechanics, since I always tried to pull off the Sneak Attack + Deadly Ground combo and I *loved* the combat in the game.
Man, that makes me feel old. While I went through bouts of collecting the game from Anvil of Despair through early Ivory, it was Hidden Emperor/Pearl/Gold era where I was playing in tournaments locally almost every weekend.
It'll be weird not saving booster packs for koku to turn in, but not having to chase down those expensive rare holdings or actions that everyone wants in their decks is a fair trade.
Ok, good. So it was "in character" that I just felt smarter and better than everyone as a Dragon player.
Shouldn't that be Crane?
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Dunno, "smart and arrogant" is kind of the Phoenix hallmark, I think.
But actually being that arrogant is definitely a Crane thing.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
also all the clans are neat, they're all really distinct and exciting
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Imagine the finals table where one player has a huge incentive to bid five while sitting on five honor and there's this long, mental game of rock-paper-scissors before they finally put down and flip their dials revealing the 5-0 bid.
That's a damn good mechanic.
Slow play is gonna be a thing, but quite juicy.
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/4/26/crafting-a-dynasty/
Summary:
Yes, the bottom right of a stronghold is influence for the conflict deck.
You can choose which of your 5 provinces will be put under the stronghold, and the order of the other 4.
You start the game with 4 conflict cards in hand.
During the dynasty phase, you take turns playing characters or actions, like SW Destiny or W40K: Conquest. First to pass gets a fate, but cannot play more characters or take any actions that phase.
Holdings are powerful, but eat up a province, basically - if you have a holding, you can't play characters from there.
When you play a character from a province, you refill it with a face-down dynasty card without looking at it -- it will be flipped face up next dynasty phase.
You can only have 1 copy of a unique character in play at a given time. If another copy shows up in a province or your hand, you MAY discard it to add 1 fate to the existing character.
Draw phase for conflict cards works as previously described, but there is no max hand size for your conflict hand.
The parable of the Scorpion and the Frog still defines the Scorpion clan.
EDIT: At the end, it mentions a new article next week... I wonder if Wednesday is now going to be the Dedicated L5R Preview Day now.
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It's 用心の城, incidentally, "Castle of Vigilance" (the same "yojin" as in yojimbo).
The Conflicts of Rokugan
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https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/5/3/the-conflicts-of-rokugan/
Highlights:
Phoenix screw around with the claimed ring and its orientation in a conflict.
Honor/dishonor cards are the mini sized tokens, as was speculated.
The imperial favor will be a full sized card, that will grant a bonus to military or political strength the following turn (and is begging for a custom token)
Imperial favor is based on a combination of claimed rings and glory on a character.
When you don't claim a ring for conflict, fate will stack up on it until it is claimed - and the dragon play off this.
During the regroup phase, you may voluntarily discard cards at your provinces.. unless the province is broken. In that case, you MUST discard whatever card is face-up on the province.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
I'm very much 3/4 asleep, so I've been missing things all day.
Also saw this in the L5R facebook group, via Reddit:
Which, unlike the old version, means everyone can be interested in it since it's not keying off your family honor being the highest.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Mechanically, no. But there is a lot of design space there. We have already seen effects that play off the conflict type, for instance, as well as the ring.
So over in reddit land, someone brought up an interesting theory. What if those 5 personality cards are part of a multiplayer mode? While none has been announced, all the templating implies multiplayer compatibility. And I was wondering why the game included so many honor tokens when I can't imagine any way to have that many characters on the field at once... At least, not for two players.
Voice of the Emperor, Left Hand, Right Hand, Underhand... and I know it hasn't been founded yet at this point of the timeline, but Imperial Treasurer?
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
There are 50 honor tokens because you win an honor victory at 25 honor and there are two players.
Did you perhaps mean fate tokens instead? Even then, 20 fate tokens per player doesn't seem too excessive to me.
I assumed the honor victory was measured with the honor dials, and the honor tokens were some separate thing.
The honor dials are the dials that look like lacquerware boxes and are used for duels and showing how many cards you're going to draw from your conflict deck. Their numbers only go from one to five.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Oh, duh. For some reason I was thinking of the honor/dishonor cards we've seen.
BANZAI!
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