I guess it was a bit unfair to criticise a popular series of books in another thread...? I don't have anything new to say about The Dresden Files that I haven't said before on these forums. It's a bit weird to resurrect a months old thread so that "we all" can hear my opinion - sorry to disappoint.
it's only months old because nothing new has come up, it's not like it's an abandoned thread
I doubt they're gone for good. There's a number of books left even assuming he doesn't add more.
But why are they gone at all? And aren't they deeply connected to Nemesis? Unless there's a really good explanation for this it makes either Nemesis or Butcher look like they missed a beat.
Same reason they weren't in every book: They're busy doing other things/laying low/are actually behind what we do see/etc.
Except they should be more front and centre now given
Nemesis is active
and it's like every protagonist in the series has forgotten they exist. I can't think of a single person in this series who wants to consider looking for them as a high priority. No comment, nothing.
which is quite troubling when they're among Nemesis best agents.
Same reason they weren't in every book: They're busy doing other things/laying low/are actually behind what we do see/etc.
Except they should be more front and centre now given
Nemesis is active
and it's like every protagonist in the series has forgotten they exist. I can't think of a single person in this series who wants to consider looking for them as a high priority. No comment, nothing.
which is quite troubling when they're among Nemesis best agents.
I mean
Nemesis himself was introduced way before (sort of) he became "active", so why should we expect anything else from Butcher regarding the Black Council? Butcher has set up tons of things in advance and it's not that characters are forgetting about them, it's just that we don't live in their heads all the time, we only see them (mostly) during crisis mode when it's not like they've got time to worry about something other than what they're looking at right now.
webguy20I spend too much time on the InternetRegistered Userregular
I'm re-reading the series again, and am up to book 11. Its so good. I love reading insignificant seeming things in the early books then having them be front and center three or four books later. Also knowing whats going to happen and having the anticipation for it.
Same reason they weren't in every book: They're busy doing other things/laying low/are actually behind what we do see/etc.
Except they should be more front and centre now given
Nemesis is active
and it's like every protagonist in the series has forgotten they exist. I can't think of a single person in this series who wants to consider looking for them as a high priority. No comment, nothing.
which is quite troubling when they're among Nemesis best agents.
Well their biggest play was the whole
mind control ink plan with the White Council and their HQ. That got shut down hard, so that would explain why they wouldn't have been around in Changes, and then you've got Harry being either dead or recovering from being dead for the next book. They're not in Cold Days or Skin Game, but Cold Days' core plot is all Nemesis, and despite working together, I can't imagine that the Black Council would be too excited about raiding a magical super-max prison built by Merlin to hold who knows what*, with a built in failsafe self destruct that has a minimum safe distance of Mars. The Black Council guys are at least Rational Evil.
There's not as much reason for them not to be in Skin Game, but that book has enough big changes for many of the main characters that I think that its general plot was probably set by factors well outside the general state of the Dresden-verse and the activities of the major factions. It makes it a little easier to care about the various relationships when there isn't a world ending apocalypse on a countdown timer. I guess that raiding a god's treasure vault for holy relics counts as low stakes these days.
*Mab took Harry's threat to have Demonreach hold her if she acted like a goose seriously, which implies that there might not be an upper bound on the power of the beings being kept there.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
What would happen if Mab was really imprisoned?
She would not be dead, so mantle would not pass on, huge power vacuum in the winter court, chaos among the defenders of reality, outer gates left vulnerable.
I'm not sure the plan to imprison Mab is one any sane person should ever try, it might just spell doom to all reality.
Kill her if you must, harm her if you can, piss her off if you dare, but never remove her from play without replacement.
0
zepherinRussian warship, go fuck yourselfRegistered Userregular
And she should have. If a skinwalker is minimum security I'm wondering what's at the bottom. Old gods? Outsiders?
Old gods, outsiders, demons, angels who stepped outside the rules, dragons, titans, aliens, time travelers. Pretty much anything that is difficult to kill. It might even be the reason why various beings follow the rules, get thrown in the slammer. It seams likely that demons know how to create ways and portals, but there has to be a reason they don't just open a way and run amok. Same with many other beings. Maybe the prison as a threat is good enough that most beings behave, and look for loopholes rather than just do what they will.
And she should have. If a skinwalker is minimum security I'm wondering what's at the bottom. Old gods? Outsiders?
Old gods, outsiders, demons, angels who stepped outside the rules, dragons, titans, aliens, time travelers. Pretty much anything that is difficult to kill. It might even be the reason why various beings follow the rules, get thrown in the slammer. It seams likely that demons know how to create ways and portals, but there has to be a reason they don't just open a way and run amok. Same with many other beings. Maybe the prison as a threat is good enough that most beings behave, and look for loopholes rather than just do what they will.
It's mentioned in Turn Coat that whatever is on the other side from Demonreach is nasty. It might be ommincidal nasty rather than just evil..even the demons can't open a way because they can't survive to get there.
0
daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
What would happen if Mab was really imprisoned?
She would not be dead, so mantle would not pass on, huge power vacuum in the winter court, chaos among the defenders of reality, outer gates left vulnerable.
I'm not sure the plan to imprison Mab is one any sane person should ever try, it might just spell doom to all reality.
Kill her if you must, harm her if you can, piss her off if you dare, but never remove her from play without replacement.
It'd end in tears for sure, neither Molly nor Old Mother Winter seem like good people to put in charge of armies, but it did appear as though the capability to follow through on that threat was there.
I'm interested in the one Demonreach prisoner who was lucid and just told Dresden to go away and not bother him. That guy is a plot hook. Like a 'Harry needs a heavy hitter and somehow this guy fits the bill so ends up being released' sort of thing. Dollars to donuts he's a brand name we'd recognize.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
+8
zepherinRussian warship, go fuck yourselfRegistered Userregular
And she should have. If a skinwalker is minimum security I'm wondering what's at the bottom. Old gods? Outsiders?
Old gods, outsiders, demons, angels who stepped outside the rules, dragons, titans, aliens, time travelers. Pretty much anything that is difficult to kill. It might even be the reason why various beings follow the rules, get thrown in the slammer. It seams likely that demons know how to create ways and portals, but there has to be a reason they don't just open a way and run amok. Same with many other beings. Maybe the prison as a threat is good enough that most beings behave, and look for loopholes rather than just do what they will.
It's mentioned in Turn Coat that whatever is on the other side from Demonreach is nasty. It might be ommincidal nasty rather than just evil..even the demons can't open a way because they can't survive to get there.
I mean that Demonreach keeps demons from just popping into reality and snatching people. It is the threat that they have to follow the rules or get thrown in there forever.
What would happen if Mab was really imprisoned?
She would not be dead, so mantle would not pass on, huge power vacuum in the winter court, chaos among the defenders of reality, outer gates left vulnerable.
I'm not sure the plan to imprison Mab is one any sane person should ever try, it might just spell doom to all reality.
Kill her if you must, harm her if you can, piss her off if you dare, but never remove her from play without replacement.
It'd end in tears for sure, neither Molly nor Old Mother Winter seem like good people to put in charge of armies, but it did appear as though the capability to follow through on that threat was there.
I'm interested in the one Demonreach prisoner who was lucid and just told Dresden to go away and not bother him. That guy is a plot hook. Like a 'Harry needs a heavy hitter and somehow this guy fits the bill so ends up being released' sort of thing. Dollars to donuts he's a brand name we'd recognize.
My money is on a semi-corrupted Merlin
+7
zepherinRussian warship, go fuck yourselfRegistered Userregular
What would happen if Mab was really imprisoned?
She would not be dead, so mantle would not pass on, huge power vacuum in the winter court, chaos among the defenders of reality, outer gates left vulnerable.
I'm not sure the plan to imprison Mab is one any sane person should ever try, it might just spell doom to all reality.
Kill her if you must, harm her if you can, piss her off if you dare, but never remove her from play without replacement.
It'd end in tears for sure, neither Molly nor Old Mother Winter seem like good people to put in charge of armies, but it did appear as though the capability to follow through on that threat was there.
I'm interested in the one Demonreach prisoner who was lucid and just told Dresden to go away and not bother him. That guy is a plot hook. Like a 'Harry needs a heavy hitter and somehow this guy fits the bill so ends up being released' sort of thing. Dollars to donuts he's a brand name we'd recognize.
Also each queen is responsible for a different aspect of timeline. The Mother Winter/Summer is butterfly effect type of involved, making small changes that have reverberating effects and their timelines to act and make changes is in the thousands of years, while the current Queens is in the tens and hundred year timeline, and because of that is in charge of the Army's, Logistics and the court, the Lady's of Summer/Winter seam to be focused on the here and now, and is more integrated in reality because of it. Aurora and Maeve interacted with the world far more than Mab and Titania.
I also think that the Knights purpose is for hunting outsiders that have snuck in, and is never really expressly told to Dresden. It would make sense because they hide in Mortals who the queens and lady's cannot kill, and everything seems to have a purpose that fulfills an objective when it comes to the winter court. The Knight's purpose didn't seem to gel, so I have hypothesized an intent that falls inline with objective.
Same reason they weren't in every book: They're busy doing other things/laying low/are actually behind what we do see/etc.
Except they should be more front and centre now given
Nemesis is active
and it's like every protagonist in the series has forgotten they exist. I can't think of a single person in this series who wants to consider looking for them as a high priority. No comment, nothing.
which is quite troubling when they're among Nemesis best agents.
Well their biggest play was the whole
mind control ink plan with the White Council and their HQ. That got shut down hard, so that would explain why they wouldn't have been around in Changes, and then you've got Harry being either dead or recovering from being dead for the next book. They're not in Cold Days or Skin Game, but Cold Days' core plot is all Nemesis, and despite working together, I can't imagine that the Black Council would be too excited about raiding a magical super-max prison built by Merlin to hold who knows what*, with a built in failsafe self destruct that has a minimum safe distance of Mars. The Black Council guys are at least Rational Evil.
There's not as much reason for them not to be in Skin Game, but that book has enough big changes for many of the main characters that I think that its general plot was probably set by factors well outside the general state of the Dresden-verse and the activities of the major factions. It makes it a little easier to care about the various relationships when there isn't a world ending apocalypse on a countdown timer. I guess that raiding a god's treasure vault for holy relics counts as low stakes these days.
*Mab took Harry's threat to have Demonreach hold her if she acted like a goose seriously, which implies that there might not be an upper bound on the power of the beings being kept there.
Skin Game's plot is pretty tightly focused on the main thread and there isn't much interaction with folks not involved in it.
It's a Heist so obvious Nick isn't going around advertising it and despite his massive fuck up with security with Mab/Dresden he wasn't really forthcoming with info to anybody. I assume all the leaks were through Mab.
We also know that Nick has at least some idea about his own organization being somewhat compromised by Nemesis, didn't he say something like that when he and Harry were talking while he was kidnapping Ivy? That rules out him as a potential infected. Similarly I think his daughter is out, especially with the role she plays in Skin Game.
Of the crew you either make it one of the freelance folks and three of them are double agents and that'd make them double double agents and kinda fucking stupid. That leaves Binder as a viable candidate or the former relic thief and neither really seem like Nemesis targets. Neither really is useful in suborning an organization and their own personal power is pretty minimal.
daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
I wonder if Bucher has drawn out a Gygaxian layout of the Dresden multiverse.
Because as far as we know there are all of three 'planes' of existence. Earth, as in the Prime Material Plane. The Nevernever, which contains everything that's not Earth. And finally whatever is outside the walls, crazytown.
So on the subject of Demonreach: At any given point on Earth (and I guess the rest of the universe?) a opening to the Nevernever will go to a location that reflects the nature of the location where the portal was created. Skin Job is almost literal in the nature of that connection, a vault owned by an underworld lord. So if you had a prison that
nobody can escape from
that is filled with the evilest beings in creation
and is currently being run by a powerful yet rebellious member of an ostensibly Lawful Good organization of magical type people
who, as an added bonus, can currently use soulfire
It's not quite as on-the-nose as Marcone's vault, but it's about as close a match to Hell as you're going to get.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
+5
zepherinRussian warship, go fuck yourselfRegistered Userregular
I wonder if Bucher has drawn out a Gygaxian layout of the Dresden multiverse.
Because as far as we know there are all of three 'planes' of existence. Earth, as in the Prime Material Plane. The Nevernever, which contains everything that's not Earth. And finally whatever is outside the walls, crazytown.
So on the subject of Demonreach: At any given point on Earth (and I guess the rest of the universe?) a opening to the Nevernever will go to a location that reflects the nature of the location where the portal was created. Skin Job is almost literal in the nature of that connection, a vault owned by an underworld lord. So if you had a prison that
nobody can escape from
that is filled with the evilest beings in creation
and is currently being run by a powerful yet rebellious member of an ostensibly Lawful Good organization of magical type people
who, as an added bonus, can currently use soulfire
It's not quite as on-the-nose as Marcone's vault, but it's about as close a match to Hell as you're going to get.
That is interesting too, because Dresden talked about dark energy that comes from Demonreach, and maybe it is the energy of hell. I think it was alluded that the dark beings there were creating it, but I could see hell as the originating source, especially when harry contemplated using the energy to smite the outsiders, and the consequences of doing that wouldn't be apparent for decades if not hundreds of years.
I wonder if Bucher has drawn out a Gygaxian layout of the Dresden multiverse.
Because as far as we know there are all of three 'planes' of existence. Earth, as in the Prime Material Plane. The Nevernever, which contains everything that's not Earth. And finally whatever is outside the walls, crazytown.
So on the subject of Demonreach: At any given point on Earth (and I guess the rest of the universe?) a opening to the Nevernever will go to a location that reflects the nature of the location where the portal was created. Skin Job is almost literal in the nature of that connection, a vault owned by an underworld lord. So if you had a prison that
nobody can escape from
that is filled with the evilest beings in creation
and is currently being run by a powerful yet rebellious member of an ostensibly Lawful Good organization of magical type people
who, as an added bonus, can currently use soulfire
It's not quite as on-the-nose as Marcone's vault, but it's about as close a match to Hell as you're going to get.
I like the idea of breaking into Hades as a warm up heist for breaking into Demonreach.
What would happen if Mab was really imprisoned?
She would not be dead, so mantle would not pass on, huge power vacuum in the winter court, chaos among the defenders of reality, outer gates left vulnerable.
I'm not sure the plan to imprison Mab is one any sane person should ever try, it might just spell doom to all reality.
Kill her if you must, harm her if you can, piss her off if you dare, but never remove her from play without replacement.
It'd end in tears for sure, neither Molly nor Old Mother Winter seem like good people to put in charge of armies, but it did appear as though the capability to follow through on that threat was there.
I'm interested in the one Demonreach prisoner who was lucid and just told Dresden to go away and not bother him. That guy is a plot hook. Like a 'Harry needs a heavy hitter and somehow this guy fits the bill so ends up being released' sort of thing. Dollars to donuts he's a brand name we'd recognize.
My money is on a semi-corrupted Merlin
The only problem with that theory:
Harry is definitely going to become Merlin in the future.
0
ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
Demonreach
It's Mab. She may not be the greatest schemer in the Dresdenverse but she's easily in contention. I suspect if the island can contain her, and knowing full well that Harry is contrarian and implusive sometimes, she has a contingency for that. Probably something that tortures the shit out of Molly while she's trapped in there.
It's Mab. She may not be the greatest schemer in the Dresdenverse but she's easily in contention. I suspect if the island can contain her, and knowing full well that Harry is contrarian and implusive sometimes, she has a contingency for that. Probably something that tortures the shit out of Molly while she's trapped in there.
Posts
it's only months old because nothing new has come up, it's not like it's an abandoned thread
what is this bad opinion you have
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
Not just in mid may, but you have to pay for a card game you probably don't care about.
Well, that point is kind of moot since it turns out the kickstarter is already done and funded. Oops.
But backers got the Peace Talks chapter 7 months ago. It's pretty good, as expected.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Dammit Jim quit trying to beat George R.R. Martin's page count!
I'm not sure where they stand in all this since
I'm not sure if I missed the explanation or what.
Except they should be more front and centre now given
I mean
Write faster Butcher!
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
Well their biggest play was the whole
There's not as much reason for them not to be in Skin Game, but that book has enough big changes for many of the main characters that I think that its general plot was probably set by factors well outside the general state of the Dresden-verse and the activities of the major factions. It makes it a little easier to care about the various relationships when there isn't a world ending apocalypse on a countdown timer. I guess that raiding a god's treasure vault for holy relics counts as low stakes these days.
*Mab took Harry's threat to have Demonreach hold her if she acted like a goose seriously, which implies that there might not be an upper bound on the power of the beings being kept there.
She would not be dead, so mantle would not pass on, huge power vacuum in the winter court, chaos among the defenders of reality, outer gates left vulnerable.
I'm not sure the plan to imprison Mab is one any sane person should ever try, it might just spell doom to all reality.
Kill her if you must, harm her if you can, piss her off if you dare, but never remove her from play without replacement.
I'm interested in the one Demonreach prisoner who was lucid and just told Dresden to go away and not bother him. That guy is a plot hook. Like a 'Harry needs a heavy hitter and somehow this guy fits the bill so ends up being released' sort of thing. Dollars to donuts he's a brand name we'd recognize.
I also think that the Knights purpose is for hunting outsiders that have snuck in, and is never really expressly told to Dresden. It would make sense because they hide in Mortals who the queens and lady's cannot kill, and everything seems to have a purpose that fulfills an objective when it comes to the winter court. The Knight's purpose didn't seem to gel, so I have hypothesized an intent that falls inline with objective.
Skin Game's plot is pretty tightly focused on the main thread and there isn't much interaction with folks not involved in it.
We also know that Nick has at least some idea about his own organization being somewhat compromised by Nemesis, didn't he say something like that when he and Harry were talking while he was kidnapping Ivy? That rules out him as a potential infected. Similarly I think his daughter is out, especially with the role she plays in Skin Game.
Of the crew you either make it one of the freelance folks and three of them are double agents and that'd make them double double agents and kinda fucking stupid. That leaves Binder as a viable candidate or the former relic thief and neither really seem like Nemesis targets. Neither really is useful in suborning an organization and their own personal power is pretty minimal.
So on the subject of Demonreach: At any given point on Earth (and I guess the rest of the universe?) a opening to the Nevernever will go to a location that reflects the nature of the location where the portal was created. Skin Job is almost literal in the nature of that connection, a vault owned by an underworld lord. So if you had a prison that
- nobody can escape from
- that is filled with the evilest beings in creation
- and is currently being run by a powerful yet rebellious member of an ostensibly Lawful Good organization of magical type people
- who, as an added bonus, can currently use soulfire
It's not quite as on-the-nose as Marcone's vault, but it's about as close a match to Hell as you're going to get.I like the idea of breaking into Hades as a warm up heist for breaking into Demonreach.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
For Harry? Not at all.
For Nicodemus..?
RIP Chicago.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
I'm dying over here.
sorry broski
we're all in the same boat tho
at least we aren't going nuts as much as the SoIaF people on reddit waiting on TWoW
The only problem with that theory:
What is her, exactly?