Let's make a comparison to 9/11. Oh and then let's have Sally bitch and moan and suggest shooting -all- the heroes into space considering how well shooting Hulk into space worked out. Then let's have her give Daredevil the finger like any of it is his fault.
I haven't read the issue but did Sally bother to go into any details about how she planned to accomplish that one? Especially consider the only thing the Civil War proved was that only Supers are capable of policing other Supers.....
Actually that'd be a really really great way to solve the problem of the worlds most singularly retarded journalist. Sally starts bitching and moaning at the Sentry, he gets sick of her and rips her in half and throws her into the sun.
Ok, aftersmash kind of irritated me.. it was ok in some ways.
But DAMN, do they know how to fuck up stuff that they did so so right.
We go from PH with an accident that ended an awesome storyline, and a possible bug involvement with causing/triggering the accident... Illuminati still culpable to some of the blame.
WWH ends with Miek seeing the Red King/anti Hulk people tossing some old warp core into the shuttle (still makes no sense mind you) and the illuminati not being totally exonerated but still removed from most guilt.
Now we have aftersmash where the Illuminati are totally without blame, Miek being solely responsible for the whole thing, and essentially everything good about PH has been stripped away save "maybe" a few new characters to use (what's left of the warbound).
Ugh, it just irritates me when they "fix" things in such a shitty way.
What is with people and thier hard on for being able to blame the Illuminati for everything?
They are at fault for putting everyone in this situation to begin with, but the explosion has always been Miek's fault.
No, it wasn't "always" Miek's fault. The explanation in WWH for it didn't place the blame solely on him, and didn't even fit or make sense regardless. But even if they wanted to have him share some blame, that's just it... he shared a part of it.
Illuminati members don't have to (and shouldn't) be 100% responsible, but they should have realized what they did was wrong. As it stands now, they are 100% not to blame because nothing they did wound up sticking to them. Hulk came back, he smashed, he saved, and ultimately got betrayed by one of his own with an explanation that didn't even fit in.
Not even the apeshit Sentry Tony let loose came back to haunt them since the Hulk took care of it then Stark "saved the day" and everything was a ok.
I just wanted to see them realize that the shit they did was wrong and be culpable for it, just like they expected everyone else to be. Strange and Prof X are the only two that came close to that.
I don't think you read the same World War Hulk I did
How so?
Hulk sees shuttle go boom, blames Illuminati (either for sending it or for planning it, it was never 100% sure). During PH it's mentioned that the shuttle had a warp core... so it's pretty natural for people to assume that's the one that went boom. The shuttle alerting to it enforced that. Miek/Brood messing with it was alluded to, but in no way confirmed or solid.
WWH ends with Hulk fighting Sentry, who went nuts because Tony told him he had to "play God" and he lost control. Hulk stops him after a big drag out fight. He'd already commented that he was not going to kill anyone, he stopped it right there, he was just going to smash NYC "eye for an eye" style and leave the Illuminati and allies defeated and humbled before going off to do whatever he was going to do.
Then the Illuminati get"off the hook" since Miek then explains how he saw people loading some other warp core onto the shuttle (which makes no sense due to the items already established in PH) and then him being shown as a traitor for not informing anyone. And also, he stabbity's Rick.
At that point it wasn't a full cop out yet. The Illuminati members still had some blame. People were still angry at them, and there were still things they had to answer for and think about. Aftersmach basically puts them right back where they started, they might as well have not had WWH at all, just have some nameless villain smash NYC and it would have been almost the exact same. The only potential saving grace will be the new characters/teamups that come out of it (Herk/Cho, Warbound, Son of Hulk) and maybe the Hulk himself, but all of that is up in the air.
EclecticGroove on
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augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
edited December 2007
I haven't read Aftersmash yet. What does it change?
I don't understand how you can continue to say blaming the ship exploding on Miek is a "cop-out" when it was clearly always the intended outcome. Yeah it's not 100% clear at the end of Planet Hulk that he did it but thats because they didn't want to give away the end to WWH.
The Illuminati still fucked up big time, I'm sorry that you can't blame them for the death of a planet too.
Balefuego on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Golden YakBurnished BovineThe sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered Userregular
edited December 2007
We haven't quite explored all of the repercusions of WWH just yet, but from what I've read of Aftersmash (which I thought was awesome), what EG's said seems pretty accurate. The Illuminati (or at least Iron Man) seems to have been given a free pass. I mean, even Thing, Peter, and Cage had nothing but jokes for him when they saw him. I expected at least Spidey to say "What the hell were you thinking, man?" re.: sending Hulk into space.
We haven't seen reactions to Richards, Strange, or Black Bolt yet, but Iron Man's still Director of Shield like nothing happened. Technically, they didn't do anything illegal, but you'd expect at least some backlash from the super hero community. Nobody wants to see these guys hanged or anything, we just want to see them acknowledge that they made a big mistake.
Maybe that'll come after everything's cleaned up though. For now, it seems like all the heroes are just trying to piece the city back together. Maybe that's the point of the book.
Side note - I love how Amadeus has just totally switched his man-crush from Hulk to Herc. Little guy likes being around big strong people, I guess. Maybe it comes from being smart but physically puny. Sounds like some psychology there...
I don't understand how you can continue to say blaming the ship exploding on Miek is a "cop-out" when it was clearly always the intended outcome. Yeah it's not 100% clear at the end of Planet Hulk that he did it but thats because they didn't want to give away the end to WWH.
The Illuminati still fucked up big time, I'm sorry that you can't blame them for the death of a planet too.
I don't want the Illuminati hanged, just accountable, which is what one of the big points of WWH seemed to be early on. Making those who felt they were above everyone and the law be accountable.
Miek is a cop out because at first it was shown as an accident with "possible" undertones of betrayal by Miek and Brood. Then it was shown to be sabotage in which Miek wasn't involved but stayed silent (yet still went contrary to facts presented in PH). Now everyone is blaming Miek for the whole thing.
It stinks because now that they have someone who is to blame for part of it, he's to blame for all of it... PROBLEM SOLVED FOREVER! Even though the Illuminati, Hulk, Warbound, and everyone else with some part to blame should obviously know that it's not.
I just don;t like how with all the growth and characters in Planet Hulk, and even parts of the Hulk, it still wound up being "Hulks a monster and so are his buddies" and no one else had to step up and say they screwed up.
Unfortunately, Ben Urich's wife is going that direction as well.
If anything, she should be angry at their insurance company for not offering superhuman insurance. Or did Clor's involvement classify the entire event an act of robot God?
Shit, anyone living in New York should be required to buy superhuman insurance, like people living in flood plains are required to have flood insurance.
Shit, anyone living in New York should be required to buy superhuman insurance, like people living in flood plains are required to have flood insurance.
See, but they would probably do something shady like only offer supervillain insurance with damage caused by superhero's as an additional coverage.
Then there's the whole "they aren't a superhuman, they are a meta/demihuman" issue. Not even getting into aliens and creatures from another dimension, or normal humans using advanced weapons, magic, etc.
I could see the red tape being a couple miles deep there!
Shit, anyone living in New York should be required to buy superhuman insurance, like people living in flood plains are required to have flood insurance.
See, but they would probably do something shady like only offer supervillain insurance with damage caused by superhero's as an additional coverage.
Then there's the whole "they aren't a superhuman, they are a meta/demihuman" issue. Not even getting into aliens and creatures from another dimension, or normal humans using advanced weapons, magic, etc.
I could see the red tape being a couple miles deep there!
But it'd be like claiming the flood wasn't the problem with Katrina, it was the winds and the levy breaking, so it's not covered by FLOOD insurance.
A court of law would go "Was it above and beyond human capability? Than it is SUPER-human." and the insurance company would have a giant block smudge.
I was kind of annoyed about her freaking out about the Hiveling. I mean, I guess they're kinda sentient, but she didn't even kill the thing, and it was invading her planet.
If you're going to feel remorse, feel remorse about something that can tell the difference between a 4-foot-tall yellow insect and a bunch of 6-foot superheroes.
I'm willing to bet Misty shows up more in Iron Fist even after the tournament.
Groove is pretty spot on, and it's unfortunate that they went down that path. Now I'm waiting for the third arc to be out in it's entirety and I'll read a spoiler on the ending before I consider purchasing it, because everything builidng up in the previous 2 arcs turned out to be a complete bait and switch.
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RingoHe/Hima distinct lack of substanceRegistered Userregular
edited December 2007
Sally Floyd turns out to be the Red Hulk.
Banner and Floyd are both shot into space, where they Hulk out and fight each other, demolishing any planetary systems they come near until.....
They crash through the SOURCE WALL
Sally is recruited by the Star Sapphires while Banner goes with OA and next year's big event with a stupid ending is:
CORPS WAR HULK (Apparently, it all turns out to be Booster's fault)
I was re-reading Planet Hulk last night and noticed something that I missed the first time:
According to the Gladiator Guidebook, Sakaar is in the Tayo star system. There are two inhabitable planets in the system; Sakaar and Gangalo, which is described as "a humid world with exotic vegetation and fungal lifeforms" but no evidence of sentient life.
According to "Planet Cho" in Incredible Hulk #100, the Illuminati meant to send the Hulk to "BR-54 in the Tayo System." Is this the same Tayo system that Sakaar is in? Was Gangalo the Hulk's original destination? And does the destination planet depicted to What If: Planet Hulk match the description of Gangalo? (it's not obvious to me that it does.)
Am I reading too much into this?
sullijo on
When I was driving once I saw this painted on a bridge:
"I don't want the world, I just want your half"
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
I was re-reading Planet Hulk last night and noticed something that I missed the first time:
According to the Gladiator Guidebook, Sakaar is in the Tayo star system. There are two inhabitable planets in the system; Sakaar and Gangalo, which is described as "a humid world with exotic vegetation and fungal lifeforms" but no evidence of sentient life.
According to "Planet Cho" in Incredible Hulk #100, the Illuminati meant to send the Hulk to "BR-54 in the Tayo System." Is this the same Tayo system that Sakaar is in? Was Gangalo the Hulk's original destination? And does the destination planet depicted to What If: Planet Hulk match the description of Gangalo? (it's not obvious to me that it does.)
Am I reading too much into this?
If this is true, then the Illuminati screwed up even less than previously thought.
I was re-reading Planet Hulk last night and noticed something that I missed the first time:
According to the Gladiator Guidebook, Sakaar is in the Tayo star system. There are two inhabitable planets in the system; Sakaar and Gangalo, which is described as "a humid world with exotic vegetation and fungal lifeforms" but no evidence of sentient life.
According to "Planet Cho" in Incredible Hulk #100, the Illuminati meant to send the Hulk to "BR-54 in the Tayo System." Is this the same Tayo system that Sakaar is in? Was Gangalo the Hulk's original destination? And does the destination planet depicted to What If: Planet Hulk match the description of Gangalo? (it's not obvious to me that it does.)
Am I reading too much into this?
If this is true, then the Illuminati screwed up even less than previously thought.
Or even more. If you want the Hulk to stay out of everyone's way, why do you send him to a star system with a bunch of alien races chilling on one of the planets?
I was re-reading Planet Hulk last night and noticed something that I missed the first time:
According to the Gladiator Guidebook, Sakaar is in the Tayo star system. There are two inhabitable planets in the system; Sakaar and Gangalo, which is described as "a humid world with exotic vegetation and fungal lifeforms" but no evidence of sentient life.
According to "Planet Cho" in Incredible Hulk #100, the Illuminati meant to send the Hulk to "BR-54 in the Tayo System." Is this the same Tayo system that Sakaar is in? Was Gangalo the Hulk's original destination? And does the destination planet depicted to What If: Planet Hulk match the description of Gangalo? (it's not obvious to me that it does.)
Am I reading too much into this?
If this is true, then the Illuminati screwed up even less than previously thought.
Or even more. If you want the Hulk to stay out of everyone's way, why do you send him to a star system with a bunch of alien races chilling on one of the planets?
Because they didn't know that anyone was on Sakaar, obviously. (One could argue the portal has something to do with that.)
Wait, so the Illuminati were smart enough to find a world for Hulk but not enough to check out the rest of the star system for sentient life forms? Or the entire route between the Earth and the planet for potential hazards like wormholes?
Me too, I thought everybody did that its common sense.
I thought the Hulk was the one who put the ship of trajectory that caused it to go into the wormhole, when he got pissed after the Illuminati's video.
Posts
oh man that shit was so sad
"Just a couple genes over to the left and I coulda been an X-Man."
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
I haven't read the issue but did Sally bother to go into any details about how she planned to accomplish that one? Especially consider the only thing the Civil War proved was that only Supers are capable of policing other Supers.....
Actually that'd be a really really great way to solve the problem of the worlds most singularly retarded journalist. Sally starts bitching and moaning at the Sentry, he gets sick of her and rips her in half and throws her into the sun.
fixed for truth
But DAMN, do they know how to fuck up stuff that they did so so right.
We go from PH with an accident that ended an awesome storyline, and a possible bug involvement with causing/triggering the accident... Illuminati still culpable to some of the blame.
WWH ends with Miek seeing the Red King/anti Hulk people tossing some old warp core into the shuttle (still makes no sense mind you) and the illuminati not being totally exonerated but still removed from most guilt.
Now we have aftersmash where the Illuminati are totally without blame, Miek being solely responsible for the whole thing, and essentially everything good about PH has been stripped away save "maybe" a few new characters to use (what's left of the warbound).
Ugh, it just irritates me when they "fix" things in such a shitty way.
They are at fault for putting everyone in this situation to begin with, but the explosion has always been Miek's fault.
No, it wasn't "always" Miek's fault. The explanation in WWH for it didn't place the blame solely on him, and didn't even fit or make sense regardless. But even if they wanted to have him share some blame, that's just it... he shared a part of it.
Illuminati members don't have to (and shouldn't) be 100% responsible, but they should have realized what they did was wrong. As it stands now, they are 100% not to blame because nothing they did wound up sticking to them. Hulk came back, he smashed, he saved, and ultimately got betrayed by one of his own with an explanation that didn't even fit in.
Not even the apeshit Sentry Tony let loose came back to haunt them since the Hulk took care of it then Stark "saved the day" and everything was a ok.
I just wanted to see them realize that the shit they did was wrong and be culpable for it, just like they expected everyone else to be. Strange and Prof X are the only two that came close to that.
How so?
Hulk sees shuttle go boom, blames Illuminati (either for sending it or for planning it, it was never 100% sure). During PH it's mentioned that the shuttle had a warp core... so it's pretty natural for people to assume that's the one that went boom. The shuttle alerting to it enforced that. Miek/Brood messing with it was alluded to, but in no way confirmed or solid.
WWH ends with Hulk fighting Sentry, who went nuts because Tony told him he had to "play God" and he lost control. Hulk stops him after a big drag out fight. He'd already commented that he was not going to kill anyone, he stopped it right there, he was just going to smash NYC "eye for an eye" style and leave the Illuminati and allies defeated and humbled before going off to do whatever he was going to do.
Then the Illuminati get"off the hook" since Miek then explains how he saw people loading some other warp core onto the shuttle (which makes no sense due to the items already established in PH) and then him being shown as a traitor for not informing anyone. And also, he stabbity's Rick.
At that point it wasn't a full cop out yet. The Illuminati members still had some blame. People were still angry at them, and there were still things they had to answer for and think about. Aftersmach basically puts them right back where they started, they might as well have not had WWH at all, just have some nameless villain smash NYC and it would have been almost the exact same. The only potential saving grace will be the new characters/teamups that come out of it (Herk/Cho, Warbound, Son of Hulk) and maybe the Hulk himself, but all of that is up in the air.
The Illuminati still fucked up big time, I'm sorry that you can't blame them for the death of a planet too.
We haven't seen reactions to Richards, Strange, or Black Bolt yet, but Iron Man's still Director of Shield like nothing happened. Technically, they didn't do anything illegal, but you'd expect at least some backlash from the super hero community. Nobody wants to see these guys hanged or anything, we just want to see them acknowledge that they made a big mistake.
Maybe that'll come after everything's cleaned up though. For now, it seems like all the heroes are just trying to piece the city back together. Maybe that's the point of the book.
Side note - I love how Amadeus has just totally switched his man-crush from Hulk to Herc. Little guy likes being around big strong people, I guess. Maybe it comes from being smart but physically puny. Sounds like some psychology there...
I don't want the Illuminati hanged, just accountable, which is what one of the big points of WWH seemed to be early on. Making those who felt they were above everyone and the law be accountable.
Miek is a cop out because at first it was shown as an accident with "possible" undertones of betrayal by Miek and Brood. Then it was shown to be sabotage in which Miek wasn't involved but stayed silent (yet still went contrary to facts presented in PH). Now everyone is blaming Miek for the whole thing.
It stinks because now that they have someone who is to blame for part of it, he's to blame for all of it... PROBLEM SOLVED FOREVER! Even though the Illuminati, Hulk, Warbound, and everyone else with some part to blame should obviously know that it's not.
I just don;t like how with all the growth and characters in Planet Hulk, and even parts of the Hulk, it still wound up being "Hulks a monster and so are his buddies" and no one else had to step up and say they screwed up.
Fixed.
WORLD WAR FLOYD
If anything, she should be angry at their insurance company for not offering superhuman insurance. Or did Clor's involvement classify the entire event an act of robot God?
See, but they would probably do something shady like only offer supervillain insurance with damage caused by superhero's as an additional coverage.
Then there's the whole "they aren't a superhuman, they are a meta/demihuman" issue. Not even getting into aliens and creatures from another dimension, or normal humans using advanced weapons, magic, etc.
I could see the red tape being a couple miles deep there!
But it'd be like claiming the flood wasn't the problem with Katrina, it was the winds and the levy breaking, so it's not covered by FLOOD insurance.
A court of law would go "Was it above and beyond human capability? Than it is SUPER-human." and the insurance company would have a giant block smudge.
But I thought that argument worked.
Damn. That was a masterpiece of a legal defense.
Namor: Your insane, all of you! Sally floyd will come back and she'll irritate you all!
Well it also gave Misty Knight control over the remaining Death's Heads.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Who knows where she might show up in next.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
If you're going to feel remorse, feel remorse about something that can tell the difference between a 4-foot-tall yellow insect and a bunch of 6-foot superheroes.
Groove is pretty spot on, and it's unfortunate that they went down that path. Now I'm waiting for the third arc to be out in it's entirety and I'll read a spoiler on the ending before I consider purchasing it, because everything builidng up in the previous 2 arcs turned out to be a complete bait and switch.
Banner and Floyd are both shot into space, where they Hulk out and fight each other, demolishing any planetary systems they come near until.....
They crash through the SOURCE WALL
Sally is recruited by the Star Sapphires while Banner goes with OA and next year's big event with a stupid ending is:
CORPS WAR HULK (Apparently, it all turns out to be Booster's fault)
According to the Gladiator Guidebook, Sakaar is in the Tayo star system. There are two inhabitable planets in the system; Sakaar and Gangalo, which is described as "a humid world with exotic vegetation and fungal lifeforms" but no evidence of sentient life.
According to "Planet Cho" in Incredible Hulk #100, the Illuminati meant to send the Hulk to "BR-54 in the Tayo System." Is this the same Tayo system that Sakaar is in? Was Gangalo the Hulk's original destination? And does the destination planet depicted to What If: Planet Hulk match the description of Gangalo? (it's not obvious to me that it does.)
Am I reading too much into this?
"I don't want the world, I just want your half"
Or even more. If you want the Hulk to stay out of everyone's way, why do you send him to a star system with a bunch of alien races chilling on one of the planets?
Because they didn't know that anyone was on Sakaar, obviously. (One could argue the portal has something to do with that.)
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
I thought the Hulk was the one who put the ship of trajectory that caused it to go into the wormhole, when he got pissed after the Illuminati's video.