So I was trying out the beta on my Surface Pro 2 during lunch today and discovered that it does run at max resolution and minimum graphics. The bad thing is that I couldn't finish a battle before I got a low battery warning. I'm going to try again another day with lower screen resolution and see if that helps. Also discovered that it isn't touch screen friendly to move the mechs or position their view after movement, but it works great for everything else.
Has anyone mucked around with the files to actually test out the 8xSL Meleeback yet?
Lol, yeah. I just earlier recorded a Battletech in the Morning for something like this. Punch Club, Episode 2. It's scheduled to post up Saturday morning.
A note and three observations:
1. I tried to rebuild the 'Mech per TT rules, using the spare weight from all the dropped MLs for more SLs. You can get up to 17 SLs doing this, changing nothing else. However, the Beta fucking breaks if you try to load this; the Hunchies somehow forget how to move when they've got this many guns. I had to drop the total number of SLs down to 13 to make it work.
2. The enemy AI doesn't know how to handle a PunchBack* squad. Even worse than my typical games.
3. With a pilot with good Gunnery and Piloting skills, you do absurd damage with the build. Even a pilot lacking in one or the other is going to do a hell of a lot of damage, since you're getting thirteen shots per turn on top of your melee attack. The high GS pilots land most of the lasers (25 damage a pop), and the high PS pilots land the melee. The combination is pure chocolate+peanut butter.
4. I really hope the Mech Lab enforces hardpoints, because the logical endpoint of this tactic is just completely stupid.
*My new nickname for a Melee Hunchback build.
Nips on
+3
MortiousThe Nightmare BeginsMove to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
So I was trying out the beta on my Surface Pro 2 during lunch today and discovered that it does run at max resolution and minimum graphics. The bad thing is that I couldn't finish a battle before I got a low battery warning. I'm going to try again another day with lower screen resolution and see if that helps. Also discovered that it isn't touch screen friendly to move the mechs or position their view after movement, but it works great for everything else.
I keep on being surprised with how well games run on my Surface Pro 3.
Has anyone mucked around with the files to actually test out the 8xSL Meleeback yet?
Lol, yeah. I just earlier recorded a Battletech in the Morning for something like this. Punch Club, Episode 2. It's scheduled to post up Saturday morning.
A note and three observations:
1. I tried to rebuild the 'Mech per TT rules, using the spare weight from all the dropped MLs for more SLs. You can get up to 17 SLs doing this, changing nothing else. However, the Beta fucking breaks if you try to load this; the Hunchies somehow forget how to move when they've got this many guns. I had to drop the total number of SLs down to 13 to make it work.
2. The enemy AI doesn't know how to handle a PunchBack* squad. Even worse than my typical games.
3. With a pilot with good Gunnery and Piloting skills, you do absurd damage with the build. Even a pilot lacking in one or the other is going to do a hell of a lot of damage, since you're getting thirteen shots per turn on top of your melee attack. The high GS pilots land most of the lasers (25 damage a pop), and the high PS pilots land the melee. The combination is pure chocolate+peanut butter.
4. I really hope the Mech Lab enforces hardpoints, because the logical endpoint of this tactic is just completely stupid.
*My new nickname for a Melee Hunchback build.
GIMME NOW.
0
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
So I think the knockdown mechanic and melee, especially when combined, are far too rewarding and easy to use for the risk (which is basically nonexistent). Fire a couple salvos on the way in, and then just have a couple mechs keep knocking down the biggest threat in reach with high-damage no-heat attacks. Anyone not doing melee attacks just takes the easy called shots until you core the mech out. Assault mechs are (literally) pushovers this way, it's no trouble at all to run a couple mechs up to them and just keep punching and kicking them for huge damage.
It makes the gameplay feel like the weapons are almost entirely secondary to just getting a mech into punching range.
0
NipsHe/HimLuxuriating in existential crisis.Registered Userregular
Has anyone mucked around with the files to actually test out the 8xSL Meleeback yet?
Lol, yeah. I just earlier recorded a Battletech in the Morning for something like this. Punch Club, Episode 2. It's scheduled to post up Saturday morning.
A note and three observations:
1. I tried to rebuild the 'Mech per TT rules, using the spare weight from all the dropped MLs for more SLs. You can get up to 17 SLs doing this, changing nothing else. However, the Beta fucking breaks if you try to load this; the Hunchies somehow forget how to move when they've got this many guns. I had to drop the total number of SLs down to 13 to make it work.
2. The enemy AI doesn't know how to handle a PunchBack* squad. Even worse than my typical games.
3. With a pilot with good Gunnery and Piloting skills, you do absurd damage with the build. Even a pilot lacking in one or the other is going to do a hell of a lot of damage, since you're getting thirteen shots per turn on top of your melee attack. The high GS pilots land most of the lasers (25 damage a pop), and the high PS pilots land the melee. The combination is pure chocolate+peanut butter.
4. I really hope the Mech Lab enforces hardpoints, because the logical endpoint of this tactic is just completely stupid.
*My new nickname for a Melee Hunchback build.
GIMME NOW.
I'm willing to compromise and make it tomorrow morning's release. I want to space these Punch Club episodes out though, give them time to breathe!
Next one up I think I'm going to try a Locust Melee Lance.
0
NipsHe/HimLuxuriating in existential crisis.Registered Userregular
So I think the knockdown mechanic and melee, especially when combined, are far too rewarding and easy to use for the risk (which is basically nonexistent). Fire a couple salvos on the way in, and then just have a couple mechs keep knocking down the biggest threat in reach with high-damage no-heat attacks. Anyone not doing melee attacks just takes the easy called shots until you core the mech out. Assault mechs are (literally) pushovers this way, it's no trouble at all to run a couple mechs up to them and just keep punching and kicking them for huge damage.
It makes the gameplay feel like the weapons are almost entirely secondary to just getting a mech into punching range.
From my experience, it's mostly easy because the AI is dumb. It doesn't know how to counter the tactic well. It doesn't know how to counter any tactics well.
And it really doesn't help that the fourth 'Mech in the AI lance typically hangs out waaaaaay too far behind its own lines. In the PunchBack video I did, the fourth 'Mech on the enemy team was literally two or three full-turn moves away from the rest of its teammates.
Nips on
0
SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
So I think the knockdown mechanic and melee, especially when combined, are far too rewarding and easy to use for the risk (which is basically nonexistent). Fire a couple salvos on the way in, and then just have a couple mechs keep knocking down the biggest threat in reach with high-damage no-heat attacks. Anyone not doing melee attacks just takes the easy called shots until you core the mech out. Assault mechs are (literally) pushovers this way, it's no trouble at all to run a couple mechs up to them and just keep punching and kicking them for huge damage.
It makes the gameplay feel like the weapons are almost entirely secondary to just getting a mech into punching range.
From my experience, it's mostly easy because the AI is dumb. It doesn't know how to counter the tactic well. It doesn't know how to counter any tactics well.
And it really doesn't help that the fourth 'Mech in the AI lance typically hangs out waaaaaay too far behind its own lines. In the PunchBack video I did, the fourth 'Mech on the enemy team was literally two or three full-turn moves away from the rest of its teammates.
I play balanced lances so I like to get my light around to eat the back of whatever that lagging mech is. Usually works pretty well. Alternatively if you get close enough but behind mountains, the AI will detail a mech (or even two!) to chase the sensor contact while you run away, giving you a large tonnage disparity elsewhere.
0
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Even against human opponents, what could anybody do against melee-oriented mechs? There's no response fire against somebody running up to you and punching you, and any mechs that reach melee range are going to deal a ton of heat-free, easy damage. Which can be countered by melee attacks, but then the fight is just turn-based Robot Jox interspersed with called shots on downed mechs. Start adding light weapons and it gets even worse.
I think knockdown needs to be quite a bit harder depending on the tonnage of mech being attacked and the damage taken, with Unsteady added to mechs the go for melee attacks. If trying to land a melee attacks means you might get your ass knocked down the very next turn, then that's a pretty serious risk.
+1
NipsHe/HimLuxuriating in existential crisis.Registered Userregular
Yeah, there's really no drawback to just melee'ing everything to death, or counters to repeated knockdowns, currently. Hopefully HBS is getting that feedback, and they'll balance that out a bit. As for a counter tactic to a melee rush, I think it'll come down to map terrain. If you're bringing a ranged-fire lance, setting yourself up on a good ridge with clear LoS gives you time to soften up the melee rush before it turns into Robot Jox.
Honestly, I wouldn't mind if they removed Called Shots on knocked-down 'Mechs. In TT you only get a called shot on an Immobile (e.g. Shut Down) target. That would work just fine here, give Flamers more of a role (maybe), and prevent the knockdown-called-shot loop from working on literally everything.
While I'm still of the opinion the Clan tech is OP, my handful of scouting drops has opened my eyes to the truth that IS PILOTS ARE FUCKING GARBAGE HOLY SHIT
HOW AM I GETTING FOCUSED DOWN FIRST YET STILL OUTDAMAGING YOU INCOMPETENT FUCKS
So the Charger wouldn't be complete garbage in the Battletech game? I love it! An assault that is assaulting.
The only downside to the Charger would be that it only has 5 small lasers to fire when it goes for a melee attack, because light weapons (such as small lasers) get to fire for free during melee attacks.
It was the closest any hull (that wasn't an Orion) came to a tabletop design I was playing around with in SSW and Megamek. Does the Thunderbolt have bad traits for them or something? Please remember that pretty much all I know of MWO comes from what I've gleaned from this thread.
Although I do finally have a working computer that can run the game again, and now that I'm out of the thicket of Overwatch/Heroes of the Storm/Overwatch events that was late April-early June, I'm planning to install MWO and try to start playing some of their current events, so any first-timer advice is appreciated.
Even against human opponents, what could anybody do against melee-oriented mechs? There's no response fire against somebody running up to you and punching you, and any mechs that reach melee range are going to deal a ton of heat-free, easy damage. Which can be countered by melee attacks, but then the fight is just turn-based Robot Jox interspersed with called shots on downed mechs. Start adding light weapons and it gets even worse.
I think knockdown needs to be quite a bit harder depending on the tonnage of mech being attacked and the damage taken, with Unsteady added to mechs the go for melee attacks. If trying to land a melee attacks means you might get your ass knocked down the very next turn, then that's a pretty serious risk.
I believe you can only walk and melee right? So long range weapons on fast mechs. Half your squad runs each turn, the other half ran last turn and can safely shoot. Repeat. Never end your turn close enough to be meleed, forcing them to shoot it out.
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
Except when the other team doesn't do anything and we have to take on all 12 of the other team and not one of them has received any damage. That doesn't work very well. The other times worked great though!
0
H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
4. I really hope the Mech Lab enforces hardpoints, because the logical endpoint of this tactic is just completely stupid.
I'm kind of torn on this. I can appreciate having the more restrictive customization options for reasons of verisimilitude, heading off some cheese builds at the pass, and opening up options for distinguishing omnis from regulars. Also, the hardpoint system is key to how MWO handles the visual models for different configurations of mechs, right? But I really like the flexibility of basically being able to invent scratch build mechs that we get with tabletop.
I think my ideal system would be a tiered method where you'd get contract deployments as a series of missions during which you'd have limited modification options in-between, and then be able to do full rebuilds between deployments (maybe with major costs for more significant modifications). Omnis would let you get away with more in field modifications, while also lowering the cost to rebuild (I think every mech should be able to limb-swap between each of its variants that share the same internal structure type). For 'skirmish' and multiplayer modes, you'd have an optional rule that determines whether people can use stock only, stock & field mod, or anything up to full rebuilds. But the in-game unit models for such a system might be an insurmountable hurdle.
MortiousThe Nightmare BeginsMove to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
edited June 2017
Yeah, I'm not going to try and finish the FP portion of this event. It's just messed up at this point. They should have just kept it at participation like the other ones.
And I'm liking the skill tree less and less as I go through my stable of IS mechs.
Except when the other team doesn't do anything and we have to take on all 12 of the other team and not one of them has received any damage. That doesn't work very well. The other times worked great though!
...yeah. I thought we were doing good that match. We flanked with Gauss and PPC from two or three squares away and the rest of the team 'pushed' then apparently just folded like paper.
Knowing that i didnt have to deal with the schrodiner effect of randos suddenly exploding the moment i dont look at them to prove they existed was a godsend.
Tell any oosik to hold the line and they damn well held the line.
Hey @Mvrck, remember that match on the ice world. Oosiks and the enemy squared up for the ridgeline fight. You and I flanked through tunnel, shot everything in the back to get their attention. They turned to face us the exact moment oosiks crossed the ridge.
The entire engagement lasted contact +30 seconds. Only oosik expenditures were paint work and some ammo.
Textbook bait n' switch, and not possible with randos. Good times.
Even against human opponents, what could anybody do against melee-oriented mechs? There's no response fire against somebody running up to you and punching you, and any mechs that reach melee range are going to deal a ton of heat-free, easy damage. Which can be countered by melee attacks, but then the fight is just turn-based Robot Jox interspersed with called shots on downed mechs. Start adding light weapons and it gets even worse.
I think knockdown needs to be quite a bit harder depending on the tonnage of mech being attacked and the damage taken, with Unsteady added to mechs the go for melee attacks. If trying to land a melee attacks means you might get your ass knocked down the very next turn, then that's a pretty serious risk.
A melee attacker has foregone almost all his weapons fire for the turn and put his back and flanks out for all to see; if the target is fast enough, it can even get around him and alpha his back in the same turn. That seems like a reasonable amount of risk as-is.
Coordinated fire and timed knockdowns are powerful, but those require at least three mechs to execute - one to push the target into Unstable, another to deliver the actual knockdown, and a third to take advantage of the called shot, and the three have to coordinate their actions so they all act ahead of the target - and, I mean, what 3-on-1 situation isn't going to be hugely advantageous for the dude with the three? If people getting up in my grill and meleeing me is a huge problem, the first thing I should be looking at is what the rest of my lance are doing and why they're not punishing the attacker for exposing himself or keeping the rest of his squad too busy to take advantage of any KD he might generate.
Posts
Steam: betsuni7
Lol, yeah. I just earlier recorded a Battletech in the Morning for something like this. Punch Club, Episode 2. It's scheduled to post up Saturday morning.
A note and three observations:
1. I tried to rebuild the 'Mech per TT rules, using the spare weight from all the dropped MLs for more SLs. You can get up to 17 SLs doing this, changing nothing else. However, the Beta fucking breaks if you try to load this; the Hunchies somehow forget how to move when they've got this many guns. I had to drop the total number of SLs down to 13 to make it work.
2. The enemy AI doesn't know how to handle a PunchBack* squad. Even worse than my typical games.
3. With a pilot with good Gunnery and Piloting skills, you do absurd damage with the build. Even a pilot lacking in one or the other is going to do a hell of a lot of damage, since you're getting thirteen shots per turn on top of your melee attack. The high GS pilots land most of the lasers (25 damage a pop), and the high PS pilots land the melee. The combination is pure chocolate+peanut butter.
4. I really hope the Mech Lab enforces hardpoints, because the logical endpoint of this tactic is just completely stupid.
*My new nickname for a Melee Hunchback build.
I keep on being surprised with how well games run on my Surface Pro 3.
It’s not a very important country most of the time
http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
GIMME NOW.
It makes the gameplay feel like the weapons are almost entirely secondary to just getting a mech into punching range.
I'm willing to compromise and make it tomorrow morning's release. I want to space these Punch Club episodes out though, give them time to breathe!
Next one up I think I'm going to try a Locust Melee Lance.
From my experience, it's mostly easy because the AI is dumb. It doesn't know how to counter the tactic well. It doesn't know how to counter any tactics well.
And it really doesn't help that the fourth 'Mech in the AI lance typically hangs out waaaaaay too far behind its own lines. In the PunchBack video I did, the fourth 'Mech on the enemy team was literally two or three full-turn moves away from the rest of its teammates.
I play balanced lances so I like to get my light around to eat the back of whatever that lagging mech is. Usually works pretty well. Alternatively if you get close enough but behind mountains, the AI will detail a mech (or even two!) to chase the sensor contact while you run away, giving you a large tonnage disparity elsewhere.
I think knockdown needs to be quite a bit harder depending on the tonnage of mech being attacked and the damage taken, with Unsteady added to mechs the go for melee attacks. If trying to land a melee attacks means you might get your ass knocked down the very next turn, then that's a pretty serious risk.
Honestly, I wouldn't mind if they removed Called Shots on knocked-down 'Mechs. In TT you only get a called shot on an Immobile (e.g. Shut Down) target. That would work just fine here, give Flamers more of a role (maybe), and prevent the knockdown-called-shot loop from working on literally everything.
HOW AM I GETTING FOCUSED DOWN FIRST YET STILL OUTDAMAGING YOU INCOMPETENT FUCKS
The only downside to the Charger would be that it only has 5 small lasers to fire when it goes for a melee attack, because light weapons (such as small lasers) get to fire for free during melee attacks.
It’s not a very important country most of the time
http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
Balistics..and Missiles..on a thunderbolt?
What sacrilege is this?
@Nips will you be gracing us tonight?
It was the closest any hull (that wasn't an Orion) came to a tabletop design I was playing around with in SSW and Megamek. Does the Thunderbolt have bad traits for them or something? Please remember that pretty much all I know of MWO comes from what I've gleaned from this thread.
Although I do finally have a working computer that can run the game again, and now that I'm out of the thicket of Overwatch/Heroes of the Storm/Overwatch events that was late April-early June, I'm planning to install MWO and try to start playing some of their current events, so any first-timer advice is appreciated.
Can't comment on the canonness of the build.
It’s not a very important country most of the time
http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
Thats the 9SE.
The 9S is the receptacle of the Clan cry machine that has never been useful again.
MWO: Adamski
So today's challange is win 2 FP matches for 100MC.
I'm mightily tempted to skip this one.
It’s not a very important country most of the time
http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
I'm primary focusing on Week 4 to get the free Battlemaster. Only picking off ones here and there to get the easy stuff.
Steam: betsuni7
I believe you can only walk and melee right? So long range weapons on fast mechs. Half your squad runs each turn, the other half ran last turn and can safely shoot. Repeat. Never end your turn close enough to be meleed, forcing them to shoot it out.
The Reaper is indeed a fucking terror
The quadapult is Just, so so bad. I'll probably bring out my C4 variant. Quad mpulse and 2 srm6. Assuming mpulse are working in the beta.
Favorite lance I've dropped is my BLARG, Pogostick, and two double ac5 2D2s with four srm2.
Except when the other team doesn't do anything and we have to take on all 12 of the other team and not one of them has received any damage. That doesn't work very well. The other times worked great though!
I'm kind of torn on this. I can appreciate having the more restrictive customization options for reasons of verisimilitude, heading off some cheese builds at the pass, and opening up options for distinguishing omnis from regulars. Also, the hardpoint system is key to how MWO handles the visual models for different configurations of mechs, right? But I really like the flexibility of basically being able to invent scratch build mechs that we get with tabletop.
I think my ideal system would be a tiered method where you'd get contract deployments as a series of missions during which you'd have limited modification options in-between, and then be able to do full rebuilds between deployments (maybe with major costs for more significant modifications). Omnis would let you get away with more in field modifications, while also lowering the cost to rebuild (I think every mech should be able to limb-swap between each of its variants that share the same internal structure type). For 'skirmish' and multiplayer modes, you'd have an optional rule that determines whether people can use stock only, stock & field mod, or anything up to full rebuilds. But the in-game unit models for such a system might be an insurmountable hurdle.
And I'm liking the skill tree less and less as I go through my stable of IS mechs.
It’s not a very important country most of the time
http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
...yeah. I thought we were doing good that match. We flanked with Gauss and PPC from two or three squares away and the rest of the team 'pushed' then apparently just folded like paper.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
Knowing that i didnt have to deal with the schrodiner effect of randos suddenly exploding the moment i dont look at them to prove they existed was a godsend.
Tell any oosik to hold the line and they damn well held the line.
Hey @Mvrck, remember that match on the ice world. Oosiks and the enemy squared up for the ridgeline fight. You and I flanked through tunnel, shot everything in the back to get their attention. They turned to face us the exact moment oosiks crossed the ridge.
The entire engagement lasted contact +30 seconds. Only oosik expenditures were paint work and some ammo.
Textbook bait n' switch, and not possible with randos. Good times.
Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
All personnel are to board our dropships for immediate relocation to our new HQ.
Please relocate yourselves to this thread for continued discourse!
This HQ site is set to self-destruct in T-30 minutes.
More profit for you.
Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
A melee attacker has foregone almost all his weapons fire for the turn and put his back and flanks out for all to see; if the target is fast enough, it can even get around him and alpha his back in the same turn. That seems like a reasonable amount of risk as-is.
Coordinated fire and timed knockdowns are powerful, but those require at least three mechs to execute - one to push the target into Unstable, another to deliver the actual knockdown, and a third to take advantage of the called shot, and the three have to coordinate their actions so they all act ahead of the target - and, I mean, what 3-on-1 situation isn't going to be hugely advantageous for the dude with the three? If people getting up in my grill and meleeing me is a huge problem, the first thing I should be looking at is what the rest of my lance are doing and why they're not punishing the attacker for exposing himself or keeping the rest of his squad too busy to take advantage of any KD he might generate.