I bought FFXII sight unseen because I read about the Gambit system and realised hey it's that mechanic I really like from Dragon Age and I think Dungeon Siege 1 waaaaaaay back? What should I expect?
I bought FFXII sight unseen because I read about the Gambit system and realised hey it's that mechanic I really like from Dragon Age and I think Dungeon Siege 1 waaaaaaay back? What should I expect?
Expect a way better Gambit system than in Dragon Age, at least.
IIRC, Bioware did say they were inspired by FF12's Gambit System. Hmm..I'd say Dragon Age Origins (and 2's) is a bit more robust because it isn't limited only to IF THEN statements.
Silverman explained that Dragon Age offers an even deeper version of that Final Fantasy system, minus any need to collect the scripting preferences. Opening a menu in the game, he showed rows of options that represented the configurable artificial intelligence scripting options. The roster of choices, which made the screen dense with text, was stunning. Every line was configurable,via drop-down menus that apply, nouns, verbs and even numerical values to the partner character behaviors. For example, any character could be assigned to respond to a ranged attack with a certain move; or behave a certain way against one enemy type and a different way against another.
EDIT: I'll add that FF12's Gambits feel...better. I think because FF12 engine's (and characters) react faster to changes you apply to your battle script. FF12 wants you to tweak Gambits mid combat. Meanwhile, DA's AI routines seem to be something you can fall back on while the game expects you to take full control of your party in tougher situations.
I've spent pretty much all morning reading about Zodiac Age job combinations. My copy needs to hurry up and arrive so I can stop losing my God damned mind. I found this post on combos that seems like a pretty lore-friendly and powerful setup (credit goes to 94zav98):
::::::Vaan::::::Shikari & Foebreaker
He is most definitely a thief. I tend to think of him as the Aladdin of Ivalice. His high VIT stat makes Forebreaker a good pairing, and also ensures 3x Swiftness without the use of Espers.
::::::Penelo::::::Monk & Black Mage
While she is most definitely a White Mage in all but name in the sequel, she is depicted as barehanded in official artwork for the game. While her STR stat is abysmal, Monks provide a nice HP boost which Penelo could certainly use. Monks also come with high-end white magick later, so you could perhaps view this as a transition between the games. Combining Monk with White Mage is unfortunately just a waste. She is depicted as a Black Mage in the artwork for IZJS/TZA. While this is most likely nothing canon, it's at least something to go by. With this pairing you get access to 3x Swiftness without the use of Espers.
::::::Balthier::::::Machinist & Uhlan
There's no way around it. Someone has to be a Machinist and it's obviously got to be Balthier. Uhlans, the Polish cavalry, upgraded their arsenal from lances and sabres to guns and rifles during World War II. Makes for a pretty nice connection between the two jobs. You also get 3x Swiftness without the aid of Espers.
::::::Fran::::::Archer & Red Battlemage
Just like Balthier, Fran is the worst pick for her canon job. She is said to make a decent Red Battlemage and it's also the job she's depicted with in the IZJS/TZA artwork. Red Mage is also a Viera exclusive job in other Ivalice games. This pairing comes with 3x Swiftness without an Esper, just like the others.
::::::Ashe::::::Time Battlemage & White Mage
We know from the sequel that she's a Time Mage. She's also depicted as a White Mage in the IZJS/TZA artwork. Makes for a killer pairing for a support character, which based on stats would either have to be Penelo or Ashe. She does come with a sword and shield when she joins the party, but then again she is also depicted wielding a sword in the sequel, despite being a Time Mage. On top of this, the most canon sword in her arsenal, the Treaty-Blade, does not require a license to equip. And yup, 3x Swiftness without the use of Espers here too.
::::::Basch::::::Knight & Bushi
The ultimate sword user. It's clear that Basch is a Knight. Or a Knight Captain, to be precise. Also makes sense that he would be able to equip weapons such as Save the Queen. Bushi makes up for the things Knight lacks, perhaps most importantly the speed. You guessed it, 3x Swiftness sans Esper guaranteed.
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For Gambits, the main thing to realize is that you slowly get new ones over the course of the game - it's a great idea, but you have to make it a decent way into the game before you can get them to do everything you want them to.
For Gambits, the main thing to realize is that you slowly get new ones over the course of the game - it's a great idea, but you have to make it a decent way into the game before you can get them to do everything you want them to.
Which I don't like, but I can see why they did it that way. The sheer number of gambits available would make the system completely impenetrable to new players if they made them all available at once.
So here's a thing. You're not locked out of a sub-class. I guess they never say you are, but it FELT like I could only have one White Mage. Now I have two, and that makes the Trial Mode a clip easier.
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IlpalaJust this guy, y'knowTexasRegistered Userregular
Most important: is there a gambit for "Nothing left to steal"?
Pretty sure an enemy only ever has one of anything to steal. I could be wrong but I've never stolen multiple items.
Steal isn't 100% successful though, so you want to keep stealing till you get the thing. I generally set it at like HP>80% - Steal, but there is some waste there.
Got XIITZA. One question before I start. Does TZA have that stupid thing where you need to avoid opening certain unmarked and unremarkable treasure chests in the first hour of the game (when you're hurting for inventory and Gil) or else miss out on a bunch of chests hours and hours later, including the only non-RNG-gated way to get the ultimate spear? And if so, are they the same chests as the original release?
Got XIITZA. One question before I start. Does TZA have that stupid thing where you need to avoid opening certain unmarked and unremarkable treasure chests in the first hour of the game (when you're hurting for inventory and Gil) or else miss out on a bunch of chests hours and hours later, including the only non-RNG-gated way to get the ultimate spear? And if so, are they the same chests as the original release?
No the "don't open a chest mechanic" doesn't exist in this version. The Zodiac spear can either be gotten as a rare drop from a a specific chest, or from a sidequest involving the trophy hunters in that beach area.
I believe there's even a new NPC who, if you talk to, actually tells you're safe to open any chests you want now.
However...the Zodiac spear is no longer the most powerful weapon in the game, and one of the games most powerful bows can be gotten from an invisible chest that randomly spawns on the deck of the skyferry
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pyromaniac221this just might bean interestin YTRegistered Userregular
I plan on building my team like so:
Vaan: shikari/foebreaker
Penelo: red mage/archer
Fran: white mage/machinist
Ashe: black mage/monk
Basch: knight/bushi
Balthier: uhlan/time mage
Sorta iffy on balthier but I like the other job combos enough that I wouldn't want to give any of them up to change him
In the original game, I tried really hard to purposefully limit myself with character building so I could specifically make classes out of people. In my case it was Vaan as a monk/thief, Fran as a white/red mage, Basch as a 2 handed dark knight, Penelo as a white/black magic sage, and Ashe as a straight up sword and board paladin.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
So the gambit system is pretty neat (I'm early in) but I wish you could combine conditions. Like "Steal if target is = 100% health" is great, but it's annoying when there are multiple targets. It would be great if I could say "Steal from 100% health targets that are the leader's target" or "Cast Fire on fire vulnerable targets but only if you have 50% or more mana" or "Use Potion but only on <50% health targets and only when we have 20 or more potions." Maybe I'm missing something? But the single target condition seems to cause some janky behavior.
Pretty sure there's a foe: party leaders target you could set to the steal command yeah? Same with the second thing. The gambit system is actually pretty robust
I learned a long time ago that unless you're gunning for something specific, it's probably best to try not to auto-steal from every enemy you come across and just rely on chains when you're farming. It's more lucrative overall and saves you a ton of sanity.
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
I had a gambit setup that automatically stole from everything and then switched to attacking afterwards. It worked by spreading gambits across multiple party members. IE, my main person would have 'enemy at health <90% steal' and my allies would have 'attack party leader's target'. Main person would steal a couple of times and then fall back to attacking after it had been damaged.
The problem with the gambit system was that it was a bit too good. I set up a fully automated and well greased death factory. All I had to do was tilt the analog stick in the direction of a group of enemies. One could make the argument that I didn't have to set up gambits that ran the whole party, but I found combat in that game to be a slog if you had to input commands manually.
The problem with the gambit system was that it was a bit too good. I set up a fully automated and well greased death factory. All I had to do was tilt the analog stick in the direction of a group of enemies. One could make the argument that I didn't have to set up gambits that ran the whole party, but I found combat in that game to be a slog if you had to input commands manually.
I personally considered the effort put into making that flawless gambit setup to be part of the gameplay itself. And the game playing itself as a result was my reward.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
The problem with the gambit system was that it was a bit too good. I set up a fully automated and well greased death factory. All I had to do was tilt the analog stick in the direction of a group of enemies. One could make the argument that I didn't have to set up gambits that ran the whole party, but I found combat in that game to be a slog if you had to input commands manually.
I personally considered the effort put into making that flawless gambit setup to be part of the gameplay itself. And the game playing itself as a result was my reward.
Oh, I agree, but I found the actual combat portion of the game to be really boring after I did that though. Boring and pretty non-optional.
Indirectly, FF12 ruined JRPGs for me. It exposed how boring the actual act of grinding random battles was for me. I also think it has some of the brst boss fights in the series whenever it goes out of its way to punish you for relying too much on proven strategies.
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Expect a way better Gambit system than in Dragon Age, at least.
Ah here you go:
https://kotaku.com/5385022/you-can-play-dragon-age-origins-sort-of-like-four-other-games
EDIT: I'll add that FF12's Gambits feel...better. I think because FF12 engine's (and characters) react faster to changes you apply to your battle script. FF12 wants you to tweak Gambits mid combat. Meanwhile, DA's AI routines seem to be something you can fall back on while the game expects you to take full control of your party in tougher situations.
He is most definitely a thief. I tend to think of him as the Aladdin of Ivalice. His high VIT stat makes Forebreaker a good pairing, and also ensures 3x Swiftness without the use of Espers.
::::::Penelo::::::Monk & Black Mage
While she is most definitely a White Mage in all but name in the sequel, she is depicted as barehanded in official artwork for the game. While her STR stat is abysmal, Monks provide a nice HP boost which Penelo could certainly use. Monks also come with high-end white magick later, so you could perhaps view this as a transition between the games. Combining Monk with White Mage is unfortunately just a waste. She is depicted as a Black Mage in the artwork for IZJS/TZA. While this is most likely nothing canon, it's at least something to go by. With this pairing you get access to 3x Swiftness without the use of Espers.
::::::Balthier::::::Machinist & Uhlan
There's no way around it. Someone has to be a Machinist and it's obviously got to be Balthier. Uhlans, the Polish cavalry, upgraded their arsenal from lances and sabres to guns and rifles during World War II. Makes for a pretty nice connection between the two jobs. You also get 3x Swiftness without the aid of Espers.
::::::Fran::::::Archer & Red Battlemage
Just like Balthier, Fran is the worst pick for her canon job. She is said to make a decent Red Battlemage and it's also the job she's depicted with in the IZJS/TZA artwork. Red Mage is also a Viera exclusive job in other Ivalice games. This pairing comes with 3x Swiftness without an Esper, just like the others.
::::::Ashe::::::Time Battlemage & White Mage
We know from the sequel that she's a Time Mage. She's also depicted as a White Mage in the IZJS/TZA artwork. Makes for a killer pairing for a support character, which based on stats would either have to be Penelo or Ashe. She does come with a sword and shield when she joins the party, but then again she is also depicted wielding a sword in the sequel, despite being a Time Mage. On top of this, the most canon sword in her arsenal, the Treaty-Blade, does not require a license to equip. And yup, 3x Swiftness without the use of Espers here too.
::::::Basch::::::Knight & Bushi
The ultimate sword user. It's clear that Basch is a Knight. Or a Knight Captain, to be precise. Also makes sense that he would be able to equip weapons such as Save the Queen. Bushi makes up for the things Knight lacks, perhaps most importantly the speed. You guessed it, 3x Swiftness sans Esper guaranteed.
Which I don't like, but I can see why they did it that way. The sheer number of gambits available would make the system completely impenetrable to new players if they made them all available at once.
Oh, I have no idea on that - never played international version.
Huh. They refunded me 12 cents.
12 cents for me as well.
I ordered mine back in March. Maybe that wasn't during the timeframe that it dropped to $32.
Most important: is there a gambit for "Nothing left to steal"?
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Fuck Joe Manchin
Pretty sure an enemy only ever has one of anything to steal. I could be wrong but I've never stolen multiple items.
Steal isn't 100% successful though, so you want to keep stealing till you get the thing. I generally set it at like HP>80% - Steal, but there is some waste there.
Actually, I double checked and it was $11.20.
I literally preordered the second it was announced and Amazon started taking preorders.
Edit: Just checked, my order is from June 16, 2016, lol.
No the "don't open a chest mechanic" doesn't exist in this version. The Zodiac spear can either be gotten as a rare drop from a a specific chest, or from a sidequest involving the trophy hunters in that beach area.
I believe there's even a new NPC who, if you talk to, actually tells you're safe to open any chests you want now.
However...the Zodiac spear is no longer the most powerful weapon in the game, and one of the games most powerful bows can be gotten from an invisible chest that randomly spawns on the deck of the skyferry
Vaan: shikari/foebreaker
Penelo: red mage/archer
Fran: white mage/machinist
Ashe: black mage/monk
Basch: knight/bushi
Balthier: uhlan/time mage
Sorta iffy on balthier but I like the other job combos enough that I wouldn't want to give any of them up to change him
Man, this game still looks gorgeous.
Having that speed multiplier option is very nice. Helps a lot for walking everywhere, since there's no run button otherwise.
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
I remember thinking "Finally! That C++ course I took in high school where I learned about if-then statements pays off!"
I personally considered the effort put into making that flawless gambit setup to be part of the gameplay itself. And the game playing itself as a result was my reward.
Oh, I agree, but I found the actual combat portion of the game to be really boring after I did that though. Boring and pretty non-optional.