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Nebsis - Non-3D Junk! (Page 5)

DE?ADDE?AD Registered User regular
edited August 2008 in Artist's Corner
Edit: 08-26-08

New Stuff

RedMask
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Nebsis
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DE?AD on
«13

Posts

  • NeoRedXIIINeoRedXIII Registered User
    edited December 2007
    Very excellent step in developing them. They have much more of a presence with there clearer and realistic form. Keep up the good work and I'll be excited to see what you do with the models.

    NeoRedXIII on
  • ScosglenScosglen Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I think most of these represent an overall improvement. The only one I like the original design better for is the death one (surrok?). The new one has kind of a strange Tim Burtonesque sort of thing going on while the previous version was a bit more iconic I think.

    Scosglen on
  • MangoesMangoes Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    The last two characters remind me of Polis Massans from Star Wars.

    armok01138084.jpg

    I see a definite improvement; though...so keep up the good work!

    Mangoes on
  • DE?ADDE?AD Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Scosglen wrote:
    I think most of these represent an overall improvement. The only one I like the original design better for is the death one (surrok?). The new one has kind of a strange Tim Burtonesque sort of thing going on while the previous version was a bit more iconic I think.

    Hmm. I see what you mean. Surrok isn't meant to be Death, however, he's just a business man who happens to look like Death. Still, iconic's always good. Lemmie fiddle around with it for a bit...

    This any better?
    Surrok.jpg
    CapnMango wrote: »
    The last two characters remind me of Polis Massans from Star Wars.

    I definitely see the resemblance. Adding Polis Massans to the resemblance list, right under No Face from Spirited Away and just above the Shy Guys from Mario.
    NeoRedXIII wrote:
    Very excellent step in developing them. They have much more of a presence with there clearer and realistic form. Keep up the good work and I'll be excited to see what you do with the models.

    Thanks!


    On another note, I whipped up the model for the Royal Sentians, the ruling class of the Old World in RedMask.

    Royal.jpg

    Shown beside the robed female civilian for a sense of scale. I was sort of going for a mix of elephant, Cthulhu and sausage fly.

    DE?AD on
  • srsizzysrsizzy Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I'd say the way to fix "Surrok" is the arms/fingers, not the head. I like the improvements with the characters, though I'd say that you should take the environments just as far.

    srsizzy on
    BRO LET ME GET REAL WITH YOU AND SAY THAT MY FINGERS ARE PREPPED AND HOT LIKE THE SURFACE OF THE SUN TO BRING RADICAL BEATS SO SMOOTH THE SHIT WILL BE MEDICINAL-GRADE TRIPNASTY MAKING ALL BRAINWAVES ROLL ON THE SURFACE OF A BALLS-FEISTY NEURAL RAINBOW CRACKA-LACKIN' YOUR PERCEPTION OF THE HERE-NOW SPACE-TIME SITUATION THAT ALL OF LIFE BE JAMMED UP IN THROUGH THE UNIVERSAL FLOW BEATS
  • DE?ADDE?AD Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Hmm. Well, Surrok has actually had those spindly, tentacle-esque fingers since his first appearance, they just don't show up much - I would swap out his model whenever he would use his arms for something, (hopefully) giving the appearance that he was crossing his arms over his chest most of the time.
    srsizzy wrote:
    I like the improvements with the characters, though I'd say that you should take the environments just as far.

    Agreed. I can't go insane with the details for the environments, as my computer isn't great which makes render-time a big issue, but I'm certainly going to try to get as much improvement as possible. Right now I'm working on updating the barge the characters will be riding around in during the next few issues.

    As an aside - Motny and the male civilian are actually using the same model, just with some scaling applied to the skeleton and a few modifications to key vertexes.

    DE?AD on
  • Angel_of_BaconAngel_of_Bacon Moderator mod
    edited December 2007
    I have to admit I'm a bit ambivalent towards the change here- on one hand, yes, they are definitely more detailed and the added fingers/more "realistic" anatomy will probably help get a lot more expression out of the characters, it feels like you've lost something in terms of the simple, bold style you had going on in the originals. I liked that kind of sharp, graphic read you get from the original's silhouettes; while the newer ones, while they are less similar to each other and therefore helping the read (Ab and Male Civilian were a bit too close in the originals, feel, I guess, too smoothed out, and have less of a feeling of deliberate style.

    It'd be nice if you could take what you've learned in doing the higher detail models/rigs and try to bring back some of the sharper angles. I don't mean just going 50/50 between the new and the old, but taking what you've added in terms of anatomy and giving it the same feel as the old- the arms won't just be smoothed extruded cubes anymore, but the new muscles in the arms would have the sharper angular look to them. Less, uh, Oblivion, more Team Fortress 2 if you get me.

    It kind of seems like what you have currently (I could be wrong) is the result of making a low-res base mesh that has roughly the same amount of poly detail throughout most of it, which when you use a poly smooth (or whatever Blender calls it) you get something where the salient features don't really stand out much, don't have much impact. It may be that the models could be improved merely by giving some edges a bit of a bevel in the low-res model so they don't lose that impact when smoothed.

    Angel_of_Bacon on
  • DE?ADDE?AD Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I get what you're saying, Bacon, or at least I think I do (I've had very little sleep so bear with me). That's actually one of the things I was rather worried about when contemplating updating the art style - that the overall style (which, to be perfectly honest here, was a happy accident born of trying to play to within my limitations) would be watered down.

    You're right about my methods, though I'm trying to get more done on the base model now before applying the SubSurf (what Blender calls poly smooth).

    Here's a shot of the new Ab without his smoothing on, to give you some idea:
    AbSanSubsurf.jpg
    AbSanSubsurf2.jpg

    One thing I notice now in the renders above, particularly with the Royal Sentian, is that it looks like the textures I'm using are actually obscuring a lot of the contours. I'm wondering if, perhaps, using incredibly simplistic textures wouldn't help bring out the edges a bit. I fiddled around with it for a while and here's what I got:

    Current:
    Texture3.jpg
    Lessened:
    Texture2.jpg
    Removed:
    Texture1.jpg

    It might just be me, it might just be the aforementioned lack of sleep, but I kinda like the bottom one. It almost looks cel-shaded.

    Further doodling - I tried to add some more edges to the new Ab model. It didn't turn out great, but still, food for thought.
    AbRipped.jpg

    Opinions?

    DE?AD on
  • EpiEpi Registered User
    edited December 2007
    I think the drop in texture really does a great deal to tribute the original work while still looking much much better. It does give it that classy cartoon/cell shade look.

    I'm also still iffy on Surrok. I think with the new models the most obvious thing that bothers me is that he doesn't look like he has spindly fingers, he looks like his hands turn to ribbons and the fingers are the shredded ribbon. The look like the would blow in the wind rather than provide a pincher grip

    I love the style by the way. It creeps me out

    Epi on
  • Angel_of_BaconAngel_of_Bacon Moderator mod
    edited December 2007
    Yeah, looking at the base mesh, way your polys are distributed so evenly (ie: the arms look basically like perfect 8-sided cylinders) is going to wind up smoothing out everything to hell and loose interesting definition. You might have to end up adding more polys, but getting a contrast between some smoother areas (torso, trunk) and more angular areas (hands, arms), will help it read better as a whole, make it look a bit more defined.

    Paintover to show you kinda what I mean:
    dead_ab.jpg

    Also, yeah I agree that the untextured version is probably better- the uniform kinda procedural pattern doesn't do much but distract from the overall shape.

    edit: also on a personal note I'm kind of partial to the teeny tiny little face in the middle of this massive torso from the original, but I can see why you might want to change it. It's just so...cute though!

    Angel_of_Bacon on
  • DE?ADDE?AD Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Untextured it is. That paint-over helps too, I'm gonna head back into Blender and see what I can do.

    DE?AD on
  • EpiEpi Registered User
    edited December 2007
    Also,

    I'm bothered by the Royal Sentian ( I like the name though). I think it would fair better to remove the neck, or at least make it more of a bump out rather than a full protrusion. Also the legs are impractical. Not in the way Ab's are. His, however minute still look structurally sound. The sentiant's look like they would just collapse. It's designed like a creature that would tend to just lay around anyway (more like a queen bee or a zerg cerebrate). The tail also looks unnatural. If you are looking for a club-ish tail you could try something like this Also watch the textures on him. A big over ruling being should seem more domineering, even if lethargic.

    That's my two cents

    Epi on
  • DE?ADDE?AD Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Epi, forgot to comment on your first post - Thanks, and I see what you mean about Surrok's fingers, but that's actually kinda what I was going for. Sort of a roach-feeler vibe, it makes the villain running his fingers along things that much more creepy. His actual physical strength is meant to be hidden most of the time.
    I'll experiment with some other fingers and see if I can't find something that works.

    As for the Royal Sentians, the tail is actually meant to look like a bloated gaster, of the type usually seen on bug queens. The legs structure was sort of borrowed from lizards and tortoises - with a bit of the arch of a insect's legs for good measure. I may have strayed a bit too far. The idea was that they moved like a very fat lizard, using their stomach for support while their legs just pulled them forward.
    They are meant to be almost entirely sedentary, relying completely on their underlings for care. As such I was actually trying to make them look thoroughly bloated an useless - they're the ruling class not because of their physical strength, but because they're essentially immortal and can ingest other Sentians to gain their skills. (In this earlier design you can see the masks of Sentians the Royal has absorbed set into his forehead.)

    Here's the untextured version:
    Royal-1.jpg

    And a possible young Royal design:
    YoungRoyal.jpg

    Anyway...

    Here's my first go at giving Ab a little more definition:
    AbRipped2.jpg

    Better?


    Also, an early (unrigged) design for Surrok's father, plus a shot of Surrok's assistant Nahri:
    Surrokco.jpg

    A shot of the current version of the Barge, Ab, Motny and Arrah's primary mode of transportation:
    Bargeold.jpg

    ...and the new Barge I've been working on:
    Barge1.jpg
    Barge2.jpg
    BargeDetail.jpg

    DE?AD on
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    The long "teeth" on Surok's mask just made him look more dignified and refined to me, for some reason. I think taking it away takes away a lot of the character of him. You might not need it as long as it was originally, but I think it would be cool if they were extended more.

    DarkPrimus on
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    Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
  • r-jasperr-jasper Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    i really enjoy your comic and style. one thing i would say though is that i'm not a fan a surrok's hips. i think just a uniform line done from his torso to feet would keep to the skinny villan style. i really like his new fingers.

    one other thing i think that abs arms are too long and skinny now, but that's just me.

    bring back the tree trunk arms! :D

    r-jasper on
  • DE?ADDE?AD Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    DarkPrimus wrote:
    The long "teeth" on Surok's mask just made him look more dignified and refined to me, for some reason. I think taking it away takes away a lot of the character of him. You might not need it as long as it was originally, but I think it would be cool if they were extended more.

    Y'know, you're right. It was a rather large part of his design as well, but it's hard to get a fair middle ground between the old super-stylization and the new, more grounded, look.

    So, which of these looks best?
    Teeth1.jpgTeeth2.jpgTeeth3.jpgTeeth4.jpg
    r-jasper wrote:
    i really enjoy your comic and style. one thing i would say though is that i'm not a fan a surrok's hips. i think just a uniform line done from his torso to feet would keep to the skinny villan style. i really like his new fingers.

    one other thing i think that abs arms are too long and skinny now, but that's just me.

    bring back the tree trunk arms!

    Thanks, and good points all around. Here's a beefier Ab and and a less hippy Surrok, both with a little more definition.
    Abagain.jpgSurroketc.jpg

    Also, revisions for Motny, Arrah and the generic Sentian male:
    MoreRevisions.jpg

    DE?AD on
  • ManonvonSuperockManonvonSuperock Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Overall, I actually like the originals the most. They seem to have more of a visual impact.

    I think one of things that really distracts from the new ones, is that the head comes out of the top of the shoulders, like a person. In the older ones, it came out of the front of the shoulders, like a cat. That allowed you to vary the size and shape of the masks more drastically giving them a more dynamic look.

    ManonvonSuperock on
  • EpiEpi Registered User
    edited December 2007
    I agree with Manonvon. Your characters are losing their oddities for more humanistic qualities. The generic dude especially looks just like a regular guy with a mask on now.

    And I also liked the old Surrok because the face in the middle almost gave him an evil hunch back.

    I also miss the size of Motny's mask. It was unique in its proportions to the others. Ab's new design I'm okay with. He's pretty badass

    Epi on
  • MaydayMayday generation three hybrid Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Why haven't you tried adding more detail while preserving the old proportions? I do that all the time! :P

    (BTW, I reread Ab a few weeks ago (when the new chapter was starting)- Great job on the story and a very good improvement since the first days).

    Mayday on
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    DE?AD wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote:
    The long "teeth" on Surok's mask just made him look more dignified and refined to me, for some reason. I think taking it away takes away a lot of the character of him. You might not need it as long as it was originally, but I think it would be cool if they were extended more.

    Y'know, you're right. It was a rather large part of his design as well, but it's hard to get a fair middle ground between the old super-stylization and the new, more grounded, look.

    So, which of these looks best?
    Teeth1.jpgTeeth2.jpgTeeth3.jpgTeeth4.jpg


    With the less stylized body, the extremely long mask just looks out of place. If you had it slightly longer than the second picture, but shorter than the third, I think that would be a good compromise. I can imagine him fondling the bottom of his mask thoughtfully. :)

    DarkPrimus on
    wpyz0Y5.png
    Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
  • DE?ADDE?AD Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Hunh. Y'know, I'm honestly rather surprised that there's so much support for the current models - they always seemed rather, well, crappy. It could just be some artistic insecurity thing, but they always sort of reeked of justifying bad art by claiming "it's a style" to me.

    It just strikes me as, I don't know, artistically dishonest to give the audience this:
    Choke2.jpg

    When I could give them this:
    Choke1.jpg

    Also, I'm more than slightly concerned that the current look may drive as many people away as it attracts - I seem to recall someone describing it as a "love it or hate it" style. I'm wondering if lowering the stylization, even if it does detract from the overall impact, wouldn't be a good thing in this case - common denominator and all.
    DarkPrimus wrote:
    I can imagine him fondling the bottom of his mask thoughtfully.

    This is such a good idea. Seriously, I am stealing it.
    Epi wrote:
    And I also liked the old Surrok because the face in the middle almost gave him an evil hunch back.

    I also miss the size of Motny's mask. It was unique in its proportions to the others.

    Technically, Surrok is still hunched - his hunch is just less Quasimodo and more Mr. Burns now.

    I sized up Motny's maska little, and moved his eyes further away from the center of his face. Similarly, I extended Surrok's teeth and widened his face. I think they both look a little more like their previous selves now.
    Motny.jpgCohn.jpg
    Mayday wrote:
    Why haven't you tried adding more detail while preserving the old proportions? I do that all the time!
    I think one of things that really distracts from the new ones, is that the head comes out of the top of the shoulders, like a person. In the older ones, it came out of the front of the shoulders, like a cat. That allowed you to vary the size and shape of the masks more drastically giving them a more dynamic look.

    I fiddled around a bit and tried to add some more detail to the old Ab models - it looked really, really awkward. I think a lot of the reason the old models have the impact they do is that they're ridiculously simplified. Adding things to them sort of clashes with that - like giving a stick figure rippling abs.

    As for the the mask positioning, yeah, it gave me a greater degree of freedom as far as their masks went, but I didn't really use it, except for Motny. I tired to do the whole forward-slung head thing on a more realistic model and again it didn't go well - Ab looked like a Krogan from Mass Effect.
    Mayday wrote:
    (BTW, I reread Ab a few weeks ago (when the new chapter was starting)- Great job on the story and a very good improvement since the first days).

    Thanks, I certainly hope I'm improving.

    Actually, that brings up a question for those of you who've been to the site - what do you think of the overall design? I had to teach myself HTML in about a week to get that site up. Is the design workable? Color scheme okay? Buttons buttony enough? I know it looks like crap in IE, which I have no clue how to fix, but as far as I know everything should work fine in Firefox.

    DE?AD on
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Surok looks awesome now. :^:

    DarkPrimus on
    wpyz0Y5.png
    Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
  • EpiEpi Registered User
    edited December 2007
    Surrok does look awesome now... all tantalizingly evil and cunning like

    Motny's looking good, though his arms do seem to resemble rolled out silly putty.

    I think it's just the shading in the first picture of the originals but Motny kind of looks like he has a white belly/chest and I think it would be kickass if he actually did rather than one constant color. Personal preference though

    Epi on
  • ProjeckProjeck Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I would size surrokk down a bit, he looks better when ab towers over him

    Projeck on
  • DE?ADDE?AD Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Good, looks like I'm moving in the right direction then.


    You're right, Projeck, I'll scale Surrok down a little.

    Motny's white stomach is just an effect of the shading, they're all one solid color. For two reasons, actually - 1. I'm too lazy to actually make textures, and 2. their bodies are supposed to be basically just tightly compressed gas, so patterns don't make a lot of sense (not that compressed gas makes much more sense, but you get the point. Verisimilitude and what have you.)

    DE?AD on
  • EpiEpi Registered User
    edited December 2007
    Fair enough. Maybe I should read before I comment

    Epi on
  • Mr.BrickMr.Brick Registered User
    edited December 2007
    Not bad!

    Your rigging skills seem to be pretty good. its nice to see people learning the whole package.

    Can we see some wires of the characters?
    Because some of the deformations look wierd and I want to see if its because of tris. Smoothing + tris + deformation = nastyness. But you seem to be battling it well. I want to recomend building intirely in quads but its hard to tell with out a wire.

    Good job! and nice lighting.

    Now texture those bad boys a bit! The characters are too cool to not take them to the next level.

    Mr.Brick on
    pew pew pew
  • KazhiimKazhiim __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2007
    I prefer Redmask with the hunch. Standing up straight doesn't work for him, and the old "hunch" wasn't an evil, body-twisted-over-the-years type of hunch so much as a "this guy's gotta bend down to enter a door" type of hunch.

    Kazhiim on
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  • DE?ADDE?AD Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Okay, time for another update.

    Thanks, Mr. Brick, and yes, you may certainly see some wires. Here's Ab:

    AbWire.jpg

    I've been trying to avoid tris. Keep in mind I'm entirely self taught and have no idea why I should be avoiding tris, but there you go. My modeling is basically just a jumble of random fidgeting with things until they look right, rote memorization from a few tutorials, and a heavy application of random luck.
    As far as the rigging and deformations go, yeah, there are some rather annoying problems - namely the "bent straw" look most of the elbows and shoulders get when they bend. I've tried just about everything and I honestly have no clue how to actually fix it. Adding another ring of vertexes at the joint seems to mask the problem somewhat, though.

    Now, on with the dump.

    First, an attempt to remove the head from a male Sentian and return him to the forward-slung-head days of his youth.
    CiviRedo.jpg
    It may or may not have been successful. On the upside, though, I fixed his mask a little - I shrunk the eyes just a bit and made them a little rounder. I think it's an improvement.


    Piece number two is a collection of Surrok masks. On the left is the most recent revision, again trying to recapture some more of the feel of the first. IN the middle is the previous revision, and on the right is the original.
    SurrokMasks.jpg


    Next up is the new design for one of the secondary antagonists, Former Major in the Free World Army, Anony Tolm. Seriously wounded during the Crag's War, Surrok's father had him placed on life-support indefinitely. Surrok later spent several small fortunes giving Major Tolm back his mobility, if not his independence.
    Tolm1.jpg
    ..and a close-up of the his mask.
    Tolm3.jpg
    Note: the sarcophagus/iron-lung thing he's in hovers - the little legs on the side are just landing gear.


    After working on Tolm and the barge I decided to do some more scenery/equipment work. Here's the updated Surrok industries L.A.C.
    Jet1.jpg
    (See the original version here)


    I reworked the Royal Sentians, taking people's comments into consideration. Here's a second go at them.
    Royals.jpg
    The older Royal's on the left, young Royal in the middle and Ab on the right just to give a sense of scale.


    Finally got around to redesigning Kai, the fourth member of the main cast. An ex-Relic Hound who at various points was involved with both Motny and Ab. She quite the Relic Hound business when she realized stealing things from living people was easier and far more profitable. Spends a fortune on mask paint and cloud-dye, as well as a ridiculous amount of money on a custom golden rifle. Recently had a few legs sculpted onto her back.
    Kai1.jpgKai2.jpg


    ...and finally here's a random sketch that in no way has anything to do with RedMask and is certainly not a spoiler in anyway no sir.
    Notaspoiler.jpg

    Opinions?

    DE?AD on
  • DE?ADDE?AD Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Kazhiim wrote: »
    I prefer Redmask with the hunch. Standing up straight doesn't work for him, and the old "hunch" wasn't an evil, body-twisted-over-the-years type of hunch so much as a "this guy's gotta bend down to enter a door" type of hunch.

    I'm really happy to hear that that's how Ab's hunch came across. Happy and a little amazed, actually.

    In defense of the new model, however, his posture's still pretty terrible:
    Hunch.jpg

    Plus, now he actually will have to bend down to enter doors. Despite his appearance of size previously, he wasn't that much larger than anyone else - the new model towers over the other redesigns.


    Also, I forgot this:
    Mr.Brick wrote: »
    Now texture those bad boys a bit! The characters are too cool to not take them to the next level.

    Thing is, even if I had the skill to professionally skin these characters, I'm not exactly sure what I would change. They're meant to be essentially monotone, so other than a maybe a few details to supplement the underlying geometry (shading to give the appearance of knuckles, muscles, etc.) I don't think there's really anything more to add to them.

    As an aside, here are again are the original character sketches I did before I even considered doing the comic in full 3D.
    Sketches.png

    DE?AD on
  • SamiSami Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    It was a good move making their bodies more anatomically correct for expressiveness' sake, but I think you should keep the caricature proportions of their old heads. The style and impact that came with them kind of go t lost in the translation to these new models.

    Specifically I'd like to see Surrok lose his hips, Motney's face to balloon to it's old dimensions, and Motney and the civilians to lose their necks.

    SurrokMasks.jpg
    The newest model is best, but I'd cut the dividing lines in half and keep it stark white.


    Also, update Redmask more :P

    Sami on
    Preacher wrote:
    That's the kicker, not only is our healthcare not cutting mustard we are overpaying for shitty healthcare. We have the olive garden of healthcare.
  • Mr.BrickMr.Brick Registered User
    edited December 2007
    Looks pretty good.
    Can you post a wire shot over a lit shot?

    (good trick is to render out a wire texture and put that texture into the bump map slot and in the diffuse/color slot and give it just a tiny bump)

    You want to avoid tris because when you smooth something, it devides it into tri's. A triangle divided into a triangle can get messy where as a quad divided into a tri will not. It drastically reduces pinching and makes folds and muscles look right. It can get really really ticky faces, but you have a good work around there.

    You might want to dull the reflections on your characters too. Make it more fresnel than straight up reflections. It looks like you have some sort of fall off type map going on in the reflections? Sorry if my terminology makes no sense, I haven't used blender in ages. I've been using 3ds max at work.

    A texture texture texture! your work is pretty good here. You've got lots of ambition and your characters have.. well character. Kick it up a notch!

    Mr.Brick on
    pew pew pew
  • srsizzysrsizzy Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I agree, I'd bring the dividing line in surrok's "teeth" down more. As far as all the models in general, I'd go back to what red-bear mcgee---I mean AoB---said. The models in general could used sharper and more stylized edges. I think you should give the Royal Sentians some rhino/elephant-like toes. It's getting better and better, and at this point I think suggestions (mine at least) are aiming more towards what other people think would look cooler.

    srsizzy on
    BRO LET ME GET REAL WITH YOU AND SAY THAT MY FINGERS ARE PREPPED AND HOT LIKE THE SURFACE OF THE SUN TO BRING RADICAL BEATS SO SMOOTH THE SHIT WILL BE MEDICINAL-GRADE TRIPNASTY MAKING ALL BRAINWAVES ROLL ON THE SURFACE OF A BALLS-FEISTY NEURAL RAINBOW CRACKA-LACKIN' YOUR PERCEPTION OF THE HERE-NOW SPACE-TIME SITUATION THAT ALL OF LIFE BE JAMMED UP IN THROUGH THE UNIVERSAL FLOW BEATS
  • KazhiimKazhiim __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2007
    Sharp edges on condensed clouds?

    Kazhiim on
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  • srsizzysrsizzy Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Kazhiim wrote: »
    Sharp edges on condensed clouds?
    It isn't something that's possible as it is, unless the consciousness of the thing is holding it together with some sort of mental force. I'm just saying, stylistically, and at least on the masks, sharper edges might look better.

    srsizzy on
    BRO LET ME GET REAL WITH YOU AND SAY THAT MY FINGERS ARE PREPPED AND HOT LIKE THE SURFACE OF THE SUN TO BRING RADICAL BEATS SO SMOOTH THE SHIT WILL BE MEDICINAL-GRADE TRIPNASTY MAKING ALL BRAINWAVES ROLL ON THE SURFACE OF A BALLS-FEISTY NEURAL RAINBOW CRACKA-LACKIN' YOUR PERCEPTION OF THE HERE-NOW SPACE-TIME SITUATION THAT ALL OF LIFE BE JAMMED UP IN THROUGH THE UNIVERSAL FLOW BEATS
  • KazhiimKazhiim __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2007
    WELL I THINK YOU'RE WRONG AND ALSO UGLY :O

    Kazhiim on
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  • DE?ADDE?AD Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Mr.Brick wrote: »
    Looks pretty good.
    Can you post a wire shot over a lit shot?

    (good trick is to render out a wire texture and put that texture into the bump map slot and in the diffuse/color slot and give it just a tiny bump)

    Wow, I have no idea what "lit shot" means. Also, no clue how to render out a wire texture.
    Mr.Brick wrote: »
    You want to avoid tris because when you smooth something, it devides it into tri's. A triangle divided into a triangle can get messy where as a quad divided into a tri will not. It drastically reduces pinching and makes folds and muscles look right.

    Ah, that's informative. Thanks. Yeah, some tutorial I read mentioned something about tris being bad, but never really went into why.
    Mr.Brick wrote: »
    You might want to dull the reflections on your characters too. Make it more fresnel than straight up reflections. It looks like you have some sort of fall off type map going on in the reflections? Sorry if my terminology makes no sense, I haven't used blender in ages. I've been using 3ds max at work.

    I don't know nothin' 'bout no fall off maps, but I think I get what you mean. At the time I rendered those I was using a Minneart shader with the Ref and Dark settings turned down to get that weird rim-lighting-esque effect. Since then I toned it down a little, giving them a flatter, and, I think, somewhat softer look.
    Mr.Brick wrote: »
    A texture texture texture! your work is pretty good here. You've got lots of ambition and your characters have.. well character. Kick it up a notch!

    Man... Textures are just a slippery slope in this case. A Mouse a Cookie Situation, if you will - if I texture Ab, I'd have to texture Surrok, and if I textured Surrok, I'd have to texture Motny, if I textured Motny...

    I might texture them if I were just doing these as independent images, but as it is I also have to worry about the time it take me to get a page out. Right now I can basically just pick an appropriate color, fiddle with some sliders, and render the thing out. As everything in the world is made up of a very simple colors it doesn't look out of place. If I start adding textures to one thing, which in and of itself will increase the time it takes to get a page out, I'll have to add textures to everything, which would make my production time skyrocket. Not to mention the massive amount of work it would create.
    For the RedMask project at least, texture really just aren't worth it.
    Sami wrote:
    It was a good move making their bodies more anatomically correct for expressiveness' sake, but I think you should keep the caricature proportions of their old heads. The style and impact that came with them kind of go t lost in the translation to these new models.

    Specifically I'd like to see Surrok lose his hips, Motney's face to balloon to it's old dimensions, and Motney and the civilians to lose their necks.

    I'm working on it. It's proving to be very hard to find a good balance between the two styles.
    Sami wrote:
    The newest model is best, but I'd cut the dividing lines in half and keep it stark white.

    Well I smoothed out the dividing lines a bit, but I'm kind of attached to them - they make the new masks about four hundred times more expressive. I'm really rather looking forward to getting to use them in the comic.
    Also, the mask actually is stark white, the difference you're seeing in that comparison shot is the shading - the original mask used a Toon shader that caused a massive separation between its light and dark areas.

    Here's the modified mask:
    SurrokMask.jpg
    Sami wrote:
    Also, update Redmask more :P

    Actually, I'm working on that. A while back I went ahead and pre-scripted the rest of the issue, and I've been steadily rendering out the art for the upcoming pages. Once I've got a decent buffer I'm going to switch back to a Monday/Friday update schedule.

    It, along with the change to the new models, is actually all part of a big re-vamp for the comic that'll go into effect with Issue 5. New models, a faster update schedule, pre-scripted issues, and a smoother page-to-page transition. I'm going to tone down the... episodic aspect of each page (as it stands I try to make each page stand alone. It doesn't always work, but the concept is there) and instead write the whole issue as a more cohesive story. Each of the pages will now have bigger panels, and in general a more "real comic book" feel. Or, at least, that's what I'll be shooting for. I want to turn the comic into something I can be proud of professionally, instead of just an amusing little side-project. Somewhere in my life I got the brilliant idea of shooting for a career as a comic writer (Joy) and I want to the thing to reflect better on me, I guess. I feel as it's too amateurish as it is.

    Basically, big ol' revamp coming to the site. I may even redo the look of the site itself.


    Regarding the Sharp Edges Discussion

    Hmm. Sharp edges are a unique problem in this case, for two reasons:

    The first, is that as Kazhiim mentions, they're cloud matter. Sharp edges don't make a lot of sense, though srsizzy is somewhat right in that their bodies are mentally held together.

    From the site:
    Explanations1.png

    I am... far too nerdy about my world-building. Anyway...

    The second problem is a stylistic one - The world of RedMask only has two elements; Earth and Air. The concept is that, as the other elements decayed, the remaining ones had to pick up the slack. As they did, they became further and further divided. Now, with two elements left, they've become entirely separated - all biological life is Air-based, and all inanimate objects are Earth-based.

    Stylistically, I really want to keep the two elements separate. Earth is hard, sharp-edged, and unbending. Air is smooth, rounded and malleable. Adding sharper edges to the masks or bodies would blur that line, and that's really something I'm trying to avoid.


    New Stuff
    A Sentian Man holdin' a baby.
    Baby.jpg

    Some random wildlife (a crag hound, specifically).
    Hound.jpg

    A line-up of the various Necky civilians I've been working on, plus Motny for some reason. Lineup.jpg
    Left to right: an Average Male, a Deep Waster, an Average Robed Female, a Fat Male Civi holdin' a baby, a Trog Male, Slender Male and Female Civies, Motny, and a Male and Female Harsh-Landers (Ab is also a Harsh-Lander.)

    ...and finally, another go at creating a non-necked civilian.
    NoNeck.jpg

    DE?AD on
  • MaydayMayday generation three hybrid Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    De?addy, how are baby Sentians made?

    Mayday on
  • DE?ADDE?AD Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    When a man Sentian and a lady Sentian, or sometimes two lady Sentians or man Sentians, love eachother very much, or if the man Sentian has agreed to pay a certain amount of money, they let their clouds become permeable and mix mists with each other. If they stay mixed long enough, a tiny mask begins to form in one of the Sentians where it will grow until it can sustain a cloud of its own.

    DE?AD on
  • MaydayMayday generation three hybrid Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    DE?AD wrote: »
    Surrok wrote: »
    everything

    I have an idea about the textures- the very idea of sentians brings gas giants to my mind- perhaps the surface of the cloud should look like a softer variation of what we can observe on the surface of Jupiter?
    Just a thought.

    Mayday on
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