Hey guys. One of the advantages I'm extremely privileged to get from my place of work is free paid tuition. I have been taking advantage of this benefit for the last few years and have finally decided to go for the gold and get a bachelors degree in computer science. I currently already have a bachelor of arts in music performance, achieved in the halcyon days of 2005, and even then I knew I wouldn't be using the skills that degree offered, I was just so close to finishing I thought it best to graduate with what I had rather than start over.
When I first began contemplating the idea of a CS degree, I immediately applied to the local college I want to attend, The University of Texas at Dallas. My application was rejected, and it's not surprising, really. My grades towards the end of my music degree were pretty bad, because once I discovered I didn't want music as a career I tried several different classes for different degrees trying to see if they interested me, but I was already burned out from school and didn't apply myself enough to those classes, getting low or even failing grades in them.
What I found out in time is that UTD has a partnership with one of the community colleges here. Using that partnership, I only need to get a certain amount of credits from the community college, maintain a fairly easy grade point average, and I am allowed guaranteed entry to UTD. I have in fact achieved those things, I could apply to UTD when I like.
Here's the thing: I'd sort of like to do an associate's degree in science with emphasis in CS at the community college. Because of the partnership, all of those credits would be transferred successfully to UTD. The reason I'd like to do this is:
1) Some of the jobs I've been applying to lately, that I fully believe I already have the experience to perform at successfully, require "an engineering degree" or even just "a technical degree." Some of them require that degree to be a bachelors, but many do not.
2) My workplace does have a cap on tuition: getting as many credits from Community college as possible is sensible, since the tuition cost there is so low.
3) I don't know how many years it's really going to take me to get a full engineering bachelor's degree. While working 40 hours a week I find it very difficult to do more than one class at a time. Maybe in time I could try to manage two but so far it's a no go. If I get an associates first, I'll be able to have that certificate so much sooner, and having that achievement would feel nice, i think.
My question is, is it going to look weird, perhaps even negative, for me to have an associates after having already achieved a bachelors? Will that come across if I'm regressing instead of moving forward? Especially, if I never end up getting the full bachelors, will it look like a lack of commitment?
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*to be more specific, I started off as tech support, pretty early on got moved to a special project involving switch programming and other provisioning skills that taught me a lot about the fiber network, and very recently got put back in tech support for the foreseeable future. Tech support is deadly dull, though it's easy and at my current company more lucrative than you would expect.
Getting another degree while working full time is rarely a bad look.
Considering you're well on your way to picking up the associates you likely should for all the reasons you mentioned and because you can more easily complete it. Life happens and sometimes we can't complete goals that are several years long for a million different reasons. The only real drawbacks are that the associates will not prepare you as well for more advanced classes than taking bachelor courses as soon as possible and your networking opportunities might be more limited the longer you delay transferring (somewhat offset if many people transfer and wait for completing the associates).
How will anyone know that you never got the full bachelors degree? It would 100 percent look bad to put on a resume that you only completed part of a degree but quit, however how would they know this? In a current employer it could look a little bad but only so many people are likely to remember you're pursuing it and they would primarily judge you on your work.
1. They only know what you tell them. If you try it and don't like it or fail, you don't have to put it on the resume.
2. Use the reimbursements and get that degree. I've never seen anyone sneer at education of ANY type, especially technology related.
Luckily it's not reimbursements. After I register for a class, from any accredited school, my company gives me a letter of credit which I give to the school for payment. The school then charges the appropriate amount to the corporation. The only thing I have to pay on upfront is my textbooks, but those I get a reimbursement on after I complete the class with a sufficient grade.
I think the point is still valid.
Sorry it took so long to notice this!
Ok, so there is a bunch to unpack here. Texas works off of a paired districts system akin to Florida's Direct Connect, so an AS* or AA likely guarantees acceptance for newly enrolled students. As second degree, this may not apply to you and this may prove more of a setback than a boon. You will want to verify this with the University, not the community college (which has incentives to tell you anything to get you enrolled, while the University will not in this scenario and just wants accurate policy reflected).
When you applied to UTD did you apply as a new student, non-degree, second-degree or graduate student status? If you applied for the wrong status you may have been initially denied as a perfunctory thing. Second degree status would be what you want, and you may qualify for differed enrollment if not automatically accepted (If it was your alma-mater, or another Texas university was, they usually accept you right then and there as second degree unless they have enrollment caps). If they aren't able to accept you right then, you may qualify for differed enrollment (which means they wont accept you for Fall, but will accept you for Spring). Alternatively, many (most) public universities have open enrollment day the weekend right before classes where you can apply in person and, if they aren't meeting their enrollment expectations for the state, they start rubber-stamping folks that friday before classes. You will have to check with UDT to see if this applies.
As a second degree student you will likely** not have to redo any of your General Education Program, nor will you have to qualify for the AA or AS by taking the filler courses needed for those degrees (as you will have met them with your first degree, regardless of grades, if you were certified with your Bachelors). This will save you time and money over going the CC route.
Reimbursement vouchers can take several months to get set up, so if thats the route you are going as soon as you have an acceptance letter wherever you go: be at the Financial Aid office that day.
The only real benefit of an AA or AS on your transcript is going to be the courses you took that you didn't otherwise have. Employers typically don't care about the lower degrees, only your highest ranking one. The folks saying it will show you are trying to change careers have the right of it from my experience and studies.
There is a whole lot more to this, but it mostly involves knowing the above questions to move forward.
*Sometimes an AS will not qualify for direct connect systems while an AA will. Verify the program you are going into qualifies (once again, with the University). There should be a permanent University representative running the program on every CC campus that qualifies.
**I don't work in Texas, but they imitate Florida in most of their 2-4 year transition policies.
You might be surprised. A lot of masters programs will weight experience pretty highly in determining eligibility for those who have been in the workforce for awhile rather than coming right out of undergrad. I recently did a Stats masters and there were a lot of people in the program who were coming from non-STEM backgrounds but who had been working in analysis positions for years. From a very different background like Music, there might be some baseline courses you'd need to complete prior to enrollment in the program, but probably not as many as a full Associate's degree.
The name of the program is "Comet Connection", and it's spelled out on UTD's website here:
http://www.utdallas.edu/enroll/transfer/comet-connection/
One thing it mentions there that I just noticed is that I can transfer credit back to the CC, after I transfer to UTD, to allow me to complete my AS degree. But the CC does require that I do at least 25% of the degree with them to be able to get the AS, so I can't transfer just yet.
In any case, I'm not sure how to tell for sure if there would be a restriction applying to second degree, or if this program only works if you're a new freshman. The wording on UTD is exactly the same as it is at the cc, Richland College. I sent in my paperwork for comet connection about two weeks ago, I haven't recieved my confirmation letter yet. Besides waiting for my confirmation letter, should I try contacting an advisor from UTD? I do recall some time ago, at least 5 years, I originally talked to an advisor during an open house day at UTD and it was that advisor that directed me towards their partnership with Richland College to work on my grades and my math level. It's been a while though and don't remember all the details.
I applied as a transfer student at the time, but as I recall (and the time gap from when I last applied has been even longer than when I spoke to the advisor - I think I last tried to apply there in 2011 or even 2009) the only choices for undergraduate degree were freshman, transfer, and foreign transfer student. I see from the application now that there are more choices:
http://www.utdallas.edu/enroll/apply-now/
But I could swear that "second bachelor's degree" did not exist back then, as that would have made my application a lot less confusing and I would have selected it immediately.
It's not my alma mater, I'd have to go back to (shudder) Lubbock, TX for that, and I'd have to be in dire circumstances indeed to even consider that step.
The hard part about trying to talk to advisors at UTD is that they only seem to have office hours while I'm at work.
The CC schools in my county have pretty classy degree planning software on the student website, so I can easily see from my study plan that a lot of the core stuff is taken care of and accepted as not needing to be taken again. What I'm missing is some government classes that apparently weren't part of the requirement when I originally graduated in 2005, I can't get out of those, right? There's a course about the federal government and a course about Texas government, both required by the State of Texas I believe. When I took my first bachelors only a couple of history courses were required and they show on my degree plan as applying successfully to the AS degree.
Everything else that could be considered "core" is a calculus course and some physics courses, things I didn't need for a music degree that I absolutely do need for an engineering degree.
Sorry I don't understand the reference to reimbursement vouchers. My workplace covers my school tuition and expenses on a class-by-class basis. I register for a course, I put in the course information on my workplace's tuition assistance website, the application gets approved by my supervisor and a manager, I send a letter of credit to the university and take the class. Easy peasy. I can do this indefinitely with as many classes as I want to take at any university that will have me, as long as I stay under the $8525 cap for the year. The only problem is if I get a grade below a C on a class, then I have to pay the assistance back, the same as with any financial aid. Masters degrees do require a higher level sign off within the company, I think director level, but I've never yet heard of anyone being declined from going after their masters. Tuition assistance is pretty much rubber stamped.
Ok this comment confuses me. Are you saying it's a mistake for me to get the AS because employers won't care about it?
You're the best, I eagerly await your wealth of information on the topic!
Yeah, one place I was at paid directly to the school, I never even knew how much it was. However, after the first three classes, you had to be in a 'degree seeking program', i.e. a registered major for a B.S. degree, to get more paid for.
Are you completely locked in to UTD? I had a good experience doing online distance learning for my masters while working full time. Classes recorded the previous day to be viewed whenever I wanted made scheduling around work as good as it could be. CS is one of the majors that has made the transition in several colleges to also be available online.
You probably want to call the registrar's office at the school for second-degree enrollment, it wouldn't be on the main recruitment site or through that system, most likely.
The AS is useful for getting the courses, but most employers are going to focus on your Bachelors and not care about the AA or AS, regardless of the order. Having the skills from the courses is fine though.
So, on the school's financial side of things it rarely works that smoothly. Usually you will have to pay out of pocket and the reimbursement won't be actually processed until midway through the semester (while fees are due several weeks earlier). The timing of these things are critical, which is why you need to get to the school's finaid office asap once you are admitted wherever you end up to get this set up with minimal impact to your finances.
So to break down this:
It may be that they turn you down with recommendations (this is common). Usually those recs are suited to your purpose anyway (for instance, a common one I used to issue was: go take the prereq courses at a community college as non-degree so you can prove you can keep up with coursework and also knock out the course for a bit less money).
That may be what the advisor said way back when, but I would start by contacting the department of the program, and then go see someone face to face to talk about it. Dress professionally, and discuss what you need for your career and how their program can get it for you. Then they should detail out what your options are and you follow through from there.
When I went back and got my degree, almost the entire associate degree was required to progress in the bachelor's. IIRC, there was a year each of Calc and Physics, a couple tracks of programming classes, some logic... you may not be able to avoid getting it.
As for desirability, I've only had to hire one person, but I'd probably take any CS degree over any Music degree. I started at a CC as a music major and finished my associate there before transferring to a state college for my bachelor's, and I don't think it's hurt me any.
Ok so this is the kind of thing that sends my head spinning, because it's the exact opposite of all my documentation and I have no idea how to reconcile that. Actually, forget head spinning, I am trying not to let the panic rise. You're far more experienced than I am in this area so I trust your judgement, but my contract says this:
You're saying this would not work the same with a bursar's office as it's been working with the community college cashiers' offices? But my contract literally forbids me from paying anything in advance if I want my tuition assistance applications to actually go through without being rejected. As for any other financial aid I might get, there's this from the contract:
So if I get financial aid, that is not to be covered by my company at all, whether it's a loan or a scholarship. Only those items not covered by other financial aid would be covered by my tuition assistance.
Gah. Face to face meetings are going to be next to impossible for the rest of this year. I did call comet connection at UTD and they told me it does apply to a second degree student, so there's that at least, but the person answering the phone sounded like a student, not an advisor, so I'm going to try to get a better confirmation.
Not quite. What I'm saying is for that to occur as written with take several months of time to ensure it is processed the way your company wants, so if you don't jump on it asap you may end up in a reimbursement scenario due to the delays involved in processing thousands of student records. Once accepted, go that day to financial aid to set things up.
If there is no way to get out in person, I would try to schedule a formal phone appointment with an actual professional or faculty advisor with the program at UDT to talk about your plan and if the CC route is the right one for your field.
Edit: more on the financial thing. 90% of students wait until the friday before classes or after to look into their financial aid, if not on the week of. If you start preparing early, and can register early, they can pre-prep some of your aid package before the end of the add/drop/enroll period. Keep in mind that financial aid offices cant actually finalize pay until after registration closes, but generally the first folk processed are those who were pre-prepared with no changes since preparation.
Wait until the last Friday before class indeed. pfft. What do you take me for, sir?
Yes this is part of why I figured I might as well get the AS: Everything in the degree can be directly applied to the bachelor's degree. No credit is wasted, they're all a two-fer. The only thing I feared was that an employer would like at an AS as a distinct negative.
I see people say this sort of thing a lot, but without the high level math and science any science graduate degree is impossible for me. If I had been doing high level math as part of my career, then sure I might be able to work something out, but that isn't the case. I work in a technical field in the sense of routing and switching, computers and electronics technicality, not in the sense of differential equations technicality.
This is not untrue, but there are plenty of programs which will give you a shopping list of undergrad prerequisites to go at before you apply, lowering the total number of classes you have to take as non-degree.
My main recommendation here would be to get into the faculty folks that do your field and talk with them about what the best path is.
I'll see what I can manage. I wish advisors worked on weekends though.
Thats staff advisors, though. Faculty are usually flexible.
Did you talk with a person about the "must be from XYZ bachelor's degree" requirement? Usually those aren't as hard of rules as the websites require, and instead they may have out-of-field applicants take a handful of core classes rather than go back and complete a full bachelor's degree.
Though coming from a humanities degree, you likely will need to take math through calculus at minimum for CS (or demonstrate proficiency).
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Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.