IDs lead to some dumb situations. I do wish they didn't exist. I played in a regional where I made the cut with a bye, a sweep and then 2x ID. Which isn't what the game is about.
Yeah I got into the top cut at my regional as #1 seed with bye, sweep sweep ID and felt kinda dirty for it.
Don't believe anyone there begrudged me for it, though.
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ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
You can't force people to play their games, is the real problem. They can shuffle, draw, and not really actually play to still go 1-1. MAYBE every few times someone at least has second thoughts and backstabs, actually trying to win after all, but that's not really the desired result of the whole affair either.
It's really shitty, and you can't do much about adding rules to fix player mentality.
(I will laugh in the face of anyone who tells me they earned their tournament win if they didn't play every game they were assigned.)
If judges see a pairing not actually playing their game they can give both players a double loss. It's only really a problem on the top tables after the first couple of rounds, so it's not like judges have to keep an eye on 60 games at once.
You can't force people to play their games, is the real problem. They can shuffle, draw, and not really actually play to still go 1-1. MAYBE every few times someone at least has second thoughts and backstabs, actually trying to win after all, but that's not really the desired result of the whole affair either.
It's really shitty, and you can't do much about adding rules to fix player mentality. (I will laugh in the face of anyone who tells me they earned their tournament win if they didn't play every game they were assigned.)
so my 2nd place finish in my regional wasn't earned because I took a legal ID in the last round, despite playing my heart out both during the swiss and the top cut? frankly that's kind of a shitty thing to imply unless I am misunderstanding you
I wish they'd just make IDing worth less than splitting a match you actually play. I can't blame anyone for doing it while it's there (I've done it myself), I'd rather it just wasn't there at all.
yeah I feel like they should be worth 2 points each rather than 3 points each.
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ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
You can't force people to play their games, is the real problem. They can shuffle, draw, and not really actually play to still go 1-1. MAYBE every few times someone at least has second thoughts and backstabs, actually trying to win after all, but that's not really the desired result of the whole affair either.
It's really shitty, and you can't do much about adding rules to fix player mentality. (I will laugh in the face of anyone who tells me they earned their tournament win if they didn't play every game they were assigned.)
so my 2nd place finish in my regional wasn't earned because I took a legal ID in the last round, despite playing my heart out both during the swiss and the top cut? frankly that's kind of a shitty thing to imply unless I am misunderstanding you
You are not misunderstanding me, and I don't care if you did it once or four times, it's shitty. Cerberus has done it too, and he's still my friend and I respect him, and he's done it because everyone else was, and I get that, and I expect you've come at it from the same angle, and I don't care because it's still really fucking shitty.
I'll absolutely have more respect for someone who loses playing out their games than wins by not. That events like regionals put so much on the line means you're dumb to not take the ID. Again, I get it. Again, I kinda don't care. I'll lose because I won't. That's my hill to die on. I'm still going to roll my eyes at you for taking an ID even if it's the right move.
Alright, I understand. I suppose it seems like a bit of a pointless exercise to just say that sort of thing when folks are clearly going to feel insulted by it, though, but no harm done- I'm not really upset.
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ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
Yeah, it's mostly relevant to what I was suggesting that it's weird to police because even "forcing people to play" is haphazard since "who are you to judge if someone is playing to their full capacity?" and that a big part of the current state of things is a mentality dichotomy (of which I definitely have an extreme stance). I just really hate it when shit gets political.
Yeah I think the complex part about IDs is that once people have a taste of them, no matter what game they were playing at the time, the temptation is always there regardless of whether they were legal or not.
And then the other issue is concessions. I think having concessions in the game is a good thing, especially with lock out decks or prison decks or whatever. Sometimes playing the game out and just clicking for credits or draws or whatever is a waste of time when you could move onto your next game, as well as fatigue that could be avoided.
But having concessions legal makes it even easier for people to secretly ID, so ffg making IDs legal sort of feels like a logical progression from there.
Probably the best solution, at least in my opinion, would be to have concessions legal, IDs legal but at 2 points each (rather than 3) and fake IDs punishable by being banned. That way all it takes is for a cheat to try and get a fake ID out of an honest person once, and they get reported and all eyes will be upon them from there- which hopefully discourages them from ever trying again. Of course, then that doesn't stop two cheats doing it together, and they get a leg up over everyone else at that tournament etc etc
it's sort of a catch 22, I certainly do not envy the people making the decisions for this.
I just tend to get frustrated with people presenting extreme views on this with heavy language. I get enough of that with actual real world politics, I'd rather this card game I play stay pretty cheerful and light-hearted where possible.
Anzekay on
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Powerpuppiesdrinking coffee in themountain cabinRegistered Userregular
I think the current situation is best - unenforceable rules against IDs just penalizes people who want to follow the rules. I don't think you could actually enforce a distinction between going 1-1 and IDing.
Part of me wonders how it'd look if the Cache Refresh-style single game rounds was pushed to be the standard so you couldn't split. I mean, it's already single game rounds in the cut right? (I wouldn't know, since I've never made it due to a crippling addiction to jank.)
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Part of me wonders how it'd look if the Cache Refresh-style single game rounds was pushed to be the standard so you couldn't split. I mean, it's already single game rounds in the cut right? (I wouldn't know, since I've never made it due to a crippling addiction to jank.)
this is kinda fiddly because then you have to double the number of swiss rounds and that means more downtime between rounds (extending the time frame of a tournament further) and also means that some people might end up playing one deck far more than the other in the swiss as well as the cut rather than both their decks needing to perform well
And yet, any of that (if true) would still be preferable to people ID'ing.
Honestly, I don't think side balance really matters as long as the players don't get to choose sides. If it's random, or determined by the OP software, eh. Heck, it'd probably go faster because you'd still have the same number of Swiss rounds but the rounds themselves could be shorter. Maybe trimmed down to 45 minutes or so.
Unrelated, I feel completely dirty playing OOPS! All Barriers?! Skorpios, but it's pretty hilarious. Kill the barrier breaker, win? Sure.
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Same number of swiss rounds means half the number of games which kinda feels like a worse determination for player skill and also means people who don't make the cut get to play half as many games and that kinda sucks for the casual folks who just want to come play games
Sheffield regional tomorrow. I faced an awful lot of Sync at the last one, so I'm tempted to take Smoke with NACH and Film Critic, but there are also the various brands of Whizzard which have a far, far better matchup against Moons, of which there will no doubt be an awful lot.
Kind of a dumb idea I've been playing with that seems to do a surprising amount of work in my BoN deck: Data Loop. Yes, I know, I don't need barriers... it's all about the encounter ability coupled with the ID. It's actually kind of mean and can just chew through a runner's grip.
Actually had a game where I went a runner to SPACE CAMP, though. Although I was sad and GT ended up being the last card in my deck. Again.
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Went to the last regional of the season on Saturday. Only 4 rounds, and was 4-2 going into the last round but ended up 4-4. Again, more than one person got into the top cut after ID'ing twice and using a bye, which meant they played 1 game of Netrunner before the knockout stages. It's just dumb.
Spectacularly stupid play of the day was when I faced a Moons deck and forgot that John Masanori running a server whose contents disappear (JH, Moon) doesn't take a tag, as the run is neither successful nor unsuccessful. I ended up letting the Moon get too many counters and lost horribly, when the Despie Whizz I was running should have been able to shut the deck down. You live and learn.
Favourite play was when I fast advanced a GFI out of FA HB.
I have a Cache Refresh GNK coming up and haven't looked into the format much. I know the prevailing wisdom when it was announced was that Smoke and SYNC were the obvious choice, with HB asset spam also being good because of the lack of Whizz and other asset hate in the format, but does that still hold up?
Reg Crim looks fine to me. You can have a Paperclip, Inversificator, Na'etc rig with support from Femme and Abagnale or Passport. You can go into C&C for Casts, Laundry and SoT if you don't mind dropping Legwork (ouch). You can run Bloose, Temujin and Aaron, and Aenas if you're worried about assets. One Desperado and no Andy sucks, but Gabe, Los and Steve are all ok.
Corp side, Aginf that taxes cards might be alright? Obokata and Ben remotes protected by Kakugos, abusing the lack of Film Critic?
I have a cache refresh tournament on Wednesday night as well, and I was thinking AgInf and Smoke, but haven't looked into building the lists yet. Something to do tonight.
I have a cache refresh tournament on Wednesday night as well, and I was thinking AgInf and Smoke, but haven't looked into building the lists yet. Something to do tonight.
How did it go?
I think I'm locked into Reg Los/Steve and either AgInf or HB asset spam. I haven't tested HB yet, but the AgInf seems good. I've packed all the money into it and it still gives you some tough calls to make on rezzing - I miss Celebrity Gift!
I ended up taking netdecked Smoke and Skorpios. I went half the first game totally forgetting about Skorpios' ability, even when I was trashing my opponent's sacrificial construct, Blackstone and Temujin. When I finally realised he'd just Levied, and I ended up losing a game when I had painstakingly shut him out of my servers. An absurd mistake, and it made me want to walk into traffic out of embarrassment. The Skorp deck won my other two games handily. Seems pretty strong.
The Smoke didn't fair quite as well, losing to a PU deck (I suspect net damage is much more prevalent in cache refresh tournaments, but didn't tech for it) and a Making News deck that did the Knocking on Doors thing turn one. It beat a Sync deck, though the Sync player didn't notice the Aaron Marron with four counters when he went all in on a HHN.
Man, it's been so long since I've gotten hosed by That Asshole Batty, that I kind of forgot about him.
Until I ran into one being ran in a Skorpios deck that fired a upgraded Colossus's trash a program & resource sub. When I was in the middle of encountering that Colossus, so I now lost *another* program (my barrier breaker), and the next piece of ICE in R&D was a Ice Wall.
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After a very long break from this game I was feeling nostalgic and figured that Terminal Directive would be a fun way for me and a friend to get back into the game, so I just picked that up.
I remember hearing something about them updating the suggested decklists for it and something about an FAQ? But I'm apparently failing at google and finding it.
I've got 3 copies of the corset though so card availability shouldn't really be an issue.
I'm actually really quite happy with how that hall of fame turned out
yeah when I saw that jake morris wasn't in the first round of nominees I thought it was going to be pretty silly but he made it in there on another pass
it wound up being a pretty credible selection, imo
Huh, that was a interesting deck I just played against. Kate with a Yog packing a Dedicated Processor and a bunch of Egrets to make everything code gates.
And a bunch of Rigged Results. Which did a surprising amount of work.
EDIT: Next year, when Leela rotates, will be a happy day.
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Don't believe anyone there begrudged me for it, though.
It's really shitty, and you can't do much about adding rules to fix player mentality.
(I will laugh in the face of anyone who tells me they earned their tournament win if they didn't play every game they were assigned.)
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
so my 2nd place finish in my regional wasn't earned because I took a legal ID in the last round, despite playing my heart out both during the swiss and the top cut? frankly that's kind of a shitty thing to imply unless I am misunderstanding you
yeah I feel like they should be worth 2 points each rather than 3 points each.
You are not misunderstanding me, and I don't care if you did it once or four times, it's shitty. Cerberus has done it too, and he's still my friend and I respect him, and he's done it because everyone else was, and I get that, and I expect you've come at it from the same angle, and I don't care because it's still really fucking shitty.
I'll absolutely have more respect for someone who loses playing out their games than wins by not. That events like regionals put so much on the line means you're dumb to not take the ID. Again, I get it. Again, I kinda don't care. I'll lose because I won't. That's my hill to die on. I'm still going to roll my eyes at you for taking an ID even if it's the right move.
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
And then the other issue is concessions. I think having concessions in the game is a good thing, especially with lock out decks or prison decks or whatever. Sometimes playing the game out and just clicking for credits or draws or whatever is a waste of time when you could move onto your next game, as well as fatigue that could be avoided.
But having concessions legal makes it even easier for people to secretly ID, so ffg making IDs legal sort of feels like a logical progression from there.
Probably the best solution, at least in my opinion, would be to have concessions legal, IDs legal but at 2 points each (rather than 3) and fake IDs punishable by being banned. That way all it takes is for a cheat to try and get a fake ID out of an honest person once, and they get reported and all eyes will be upon them from there- which hopefully discourages them from ever trying again. Of course, then that doesn't stop two cheats doing it together, and they get a leg up over everyone else at that tournament etc etc
it's sort of a catch 22, I certainly do not envy the people making the decisions for this.
I just tend to get frustrated with people presenting extreme views on this with heavy language. I get enough of that with actual real world politics, I'd rather this card game I play stay pretty cheerful and light-hearted where possible.
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this is kinda fiddly because then you have to double the number of swiss rounds and that means more downtime between rounds (extending the time frame of a tournament further) and also means that some people might end up playing one deck far more than the other in the swiss as well as the cut rather than both their decks needing to perform well
Honestly, I don't think side balance really matters as long as the players don't get to choose sides. If it's random, or determined by the OP software, eh. Heck, it'd probably go faster because you'd still have the same number of Swiss rounds but the rounds themselves could be shorter. Maybe trimmed down to 45 minutes or so.
Unrelated, I feel completely dirty playing OOPS! All Barriers?! Skorpios, but it's pretty hilarious. Kill the barrier breaker, win? Sure.
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No official release date yet, oddly.
So goddamn close to rotation...
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Expect Moon, Ag, SYNC, CI at the top mostly
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Actually had a game where I went a runner to SPACE CAMP, though.
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Employee Strike should go away if a agenda was stolen as well.
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Spectacularly stupid play of the day was when I faced a Moons deck and forgot that John Masanori running a server whose contents disappear (JH, Moon) doesn't take a tag, as the run is neither successful nor unsuccessful. I ended up letting the Moon get too many counters and lost horribly, when the Despie Whizz I was running should have been able to shut the deck down. You live and learn.
Favourite play was when I fast advanced a GFI out of FA HB.
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https://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/44662/hydra-1st-place-preston-regional-
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EDIT: That feeling when you Couriers onto a Vanity Project 14 counters.
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Reg Crim looks fine to me. You can have a Paperclip, Inversificator, Na'etc rig with support from Femme and Abagnale or Passport. You can go into C&C for Casts, Laundry and SoT if you don't mind dropping Legwork (ouch). You can run Bloose, Temujin and Aaron, and Aenas if you're worried about assets. One Desperado and no Andy sucks, but Gabe, Los and Steve are all ok.
Corp side, Aginf that taxes cards might be alright? Obokata and Ben remotes protected by Kakugos, abusing the lack of Film Critic?
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
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How did it go?
I think I'm locked into Reg Los/Steve and either AgInf or HB asset spam. I haven't tested HB yet, but the AgInf seems good. I've packed all the money into it and it still gives you some tough calls to make on rezzing - I miss Celebrity Gift!
The Smoke didn't fair quite as well, losing to a PU deck (I suspect net damage is much more prevalent in cache refresh tournaments, but didn't tech for it) and a Making News deck that did the Knocking on Doors thing turn one. It beat a Sync deck, though the Sync player didn't notice the Aaron Marron with four counters when he went all in on a HHN.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
Until I ran into one being ran in a Skorpios deck that fired a upgraded Colossus's trash a program & resource sub. When I was in the middle of encountering that Colossus, so I now lost *another* program (my barrier breaker), and the next piece of ICE in R&D was a Ice Wall.
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I remember hearing something about them updating the suggested decklists for it and something about an FAQ? But I'm apparently failing at google and finding it.
I've got 3 copies of the corset though so card availability shouldn't really be an issue.
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Thanks!
yeah when I saw that jake morris wasn't in the first round of nominees I thought it was going to be pretty silly but he made it in there on another pass
it wound up being a pretty credible selection, imo
EDIT: Also, CardgameDB, of all things, has the official English spoilers for Crimson Dust.
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And a bunch of Rigged Results. Which did a surprising amount of work.
EDIT: Next year, when Leela rotates, will be a happy day.
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