Yeah that's a really rich level in terms of secrets. It's huge. Honestly I don't think it's brilliantly designed because unless you make a point of doing things inefficiently (and doing something that doesn't make sense for the character, who would want to get out of dodge) you don't see any of the good shit
Yeah that's a really rich level in terms of secrets. It's huge. Honestly I don't think it's brilliantly designed because unless you make a point of doing things inefficiently (and doing something that doesn't make sense for the character, who would want to get out of dodge) you don't see any of the good shit
It feels like it has a bad case of "first level we made" syndrome, where you've got a level that's pretty overstuffed because it was the only place to put the ideas they had for a year.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
I recalled a post about undertaker, so I went and made a 4x undertaker charm to go with my 4x swift shadow and fleet fighter and this is getting very silly. I'm going to slide through this entire mission at Doom 1 speed with a corpse over my shoulder.
All I need now is for zephyr to also turn up before I hit the end.
e: well, I have just spent 4+ hours trying a no-powers, no takedowns run and it is bad. I didn't know that guy was there because I can't hear his footsteps, immediately spotted, reload. I tried to lean out to see where guys are and got spotted, reload. There was a guy off in the distance, spotted, reload. Couldn't make a jump or grab a ledge or something for no apparent reason, spotted, reload. Random guard behavior in response to a distraction didn't work out, spotted, reload.
It happens over and over and over and over to the point that I am sick of fighting the guys that saw me before reloading, and I liked the action in this game at one point.
I think what I really want is the stealth mechanics from OG Thief, and Dishonored does not do that and I should really not try to find them here. Gonna start a new run, still no takedowns, because that's the main thing, but with powers. I miss my hookshot arm.
Decided the first Dishonored game was pretty well regarded, and the Definitive Edition for XBO was less than $20, so figured that might be a better point of entry for the series.
Not regretting that decision at all; just got my powers from the nightmare/dream level and about to start the first real assassination mission. The mechanics are a little more simple, which does result in fewer non-lethal combat options (basically none, once spotted), but is definitely more manageable. Not trying anything extreme as far as non-lethal or ghost, but I'd like to keep it on the low chaos side (the game strong hints I should want to do this anyway).
The game also threw about a dozen Bone Charms at me, just sitting in my room at the pub. I can only assume that is some kind of definitive edition perk?
Yeah, those bone charms are the ones that come with the DLC, along with quite a few valuables that you'll probably find as well.
I can't remember what charms you get there. Any that seem overpowered for non-combat purposes?
I'm stubborn so I went back to my no-powers challenge run and finished. As it turns out, aiming for 70% loot was the real backbreaker on my first try, because of how many places you just can't go without it being a nightmare to get in or back out or both. It's a whole lot easier to just hit the objective and get out and grab any convenient loot along the way.
In the end, I did Shadow/Clean Hands/Flesh and Steel on very hard mode, and only knocked out mandatory mission targets.
Some thoughts along the way:
There are three places where a guard (or a witch) just stands there such that they will absolutely see you going somewhere you need to be, and never moves from that spot. Didn't like this at all. Like, when I was doing a similar run in Deus Ex, I got to a part in the ocean lab where probably the only way forward is through a bare tunnel with a guy patrolling it, and that was still doable without a distraction because the guy moves. You can follow behind the guy and then stay on his back as he turns around, and then you're past him. For two of these three stooges, you have to do something that will result in a random response and hope you can make it by.
First time is Addermire, the guy leaning on the railing by the watchtower. Jumping from the chain, below his vision, to the tower is impossible. I took the whale oil tank from the wall of light all the way up to where Hypatia hangs out and saved and chucked it from the fan box under the shutter until I got an angle where both guys down there were facing away from the tower long enough for me to jump down, sprint over to it, and disable it.
Second time is the clockwork mansion, the witch who sits on top of the guard post. From inside the guard post, since that's the closest I could get to the exit, I shot out the first window left of the wall of light blocking the station with my crossbow, after a lot of trial and error shooting at different walls around the front of the station.
Third time is dust district on the way out from Stilton manor, that elite guard from the previous mission is still there, leaning on the railing. Rather than make noise I waited awhile, hoping for a dust storm, and it happened and I didn't have to rely on random shit to leave.
Addermire and clockwork mansion are definitely the low points of this run - aside from stationary guards, there are a couple of seriously cruel rooms. For starters, you can't use the front door at Addermire, because the guy on the left will see you. I went in through the open shutter into a storage room off the kitchen. Don't even try the dining room, though. The wing where you find Hamilton and Vasco's lab is also pretty tough; there are pipes to climb on, but the two guards cover a lot of the room during their scripted bit and can easily see you before you even get to them.
Now lower Aventa, I have probably wasted the most time here, and the square in front of the station is the reason for my post earlier. There are like three guys on patrol who can see you while you try to come up the stairs to even start the level. Then you have to contend with them again to get into the alley; there's no cover so I had to sprint and hope they weren't looking. The door to the uppermost apartment over the alley can be blown open with a round from the pistol, and nobody seems to notice, so reaching the roof and the carriage is no problem. Heaven help you if you try to reach the black market though, because that's a one-way trip. You can certainly survive a fall from the station roof down to a wooden platform in a far corner, and then reach the market, but there are guards up on the sidewalk and Howlers block the back alley. I started making a lot of hard saves at this point on my second attempt at the run in order to avoid another Aventa black market. The rest of the level was incredibly tame by comparison. It did take a few tries to find the right angle to get inside the walls of the mansion off of one pull of the lever, I guess. There's also a bit where I trailed a guard up to the door to Jindosh's room and hid under a table until he went back the other way.
On the return trip, the witches make the lower Aventa square a lot easier, but it's still a pain because of the one on the guard post. The Howlers are gone at this point, so visiting the black market is possible.
Nothing notable happened in Dunwall because I took the train. I think the first one is scripted to come by when you get roughly within earshot of the guards talking about Ramsey. Edge of the World is also not bad, assuming you aren't trying for loot. See for example the loose change on a crate by the canal. I had a hard time grabbing that with powers. I stole the corpse for Mindy rather than try my luck in the station as well.
Hit a pretty big snag right away in royal conservatory. Left the windmill alone, thinking I could just walk into the side alley, but it's locked at ground level and I can't get up high enough to go over the gate. The guy who has the key is in the guard post, which has its door on the front. I figured it out, though - all of the nearby guards face away at the same time sometimes, and the guard with the key eventually goes to one of the built in desks, so I could drop down, pickpocket him, and get out and behind the post before anybody decided to turn around. The witch alternately leaning out to watch the gate was kind of annoying, but she hides for long enough intervals to climb up onto the thing on the left and go up above where she can see you. I think the shrine at the other end of the alley is a dead end; you can get over to it from a nearby roof, but not back, and there are three officers hanging out in that one corner for some reason. The inside of the conservatory was a bit tricky as well. Without blink/reach, the elevator shaft is the only way up to the fourth "floor" other than through Breanna's office. Gravehounds guard the elevator on all main floors, as well as the front office door and the side window. However, the basement level is wide open. After that you just grab the lenses, wait a bit, stick them in, and pull the lever and you have free reign of the building. Three witches sadly died in the process because a bottle of exploding rum fell over somehow. I heard the crash and thought nothing of it at first, and found their burnt corpses while scouring the first floor for loot.
Returning from the conservatory, there's a billboard kind of thing on the opposite end of the building from the apartment shortcut where you can climb up and along to pass through the arch above the wall of light, rather than deal with any ground patrols, so that was nice.
Dust district is almost a freebie - by necessity, because knocking out either clown in chief would break the rules. Stooge number three hangs out here though. Stilton manor is already a no-powers zone, but you can't double jump, so there are some inaccessible ledges and such, but nothing super important. Unfortunately for Stilton, I have to let him attend the seance.
Palace district gives you a straight shot with almost no patrols to the black market, to buy the favor that shuts off the rails, and then back, and then you're at the palace. I'm not sure if there's a trigger for the favor being available, but it wasn't for sale the first time I got there, so I backed up to hear the whole conversation with the smuggler first and then it was there. At this point I have a load of cash and a couple of the more significant bone charms already, so I stopped going out of my way for anything.
The palace itself is intimidating at first, but after some searching, I was able to climb up onto the roof anyway. Running jump from the rail bridge cable to the station overhang, jump from the overhang onto a clock to the right, jump from the clock to a large standing lamp, over to some elevated topiary, then hop down behind the guards and around the corner, behind the guard watching the hedges, along the wall and then you're on the roof of the throne room. From the end of the ledge outside the office, you can jump off and grab onto the roof over the entry areas. On the second lowest platform of that roof, if you leap from the "corner" top, you can then grab the divider and climb up and go all the way up to the topmost point of the palace. The Duke was in the throne room, so I also hauled him up this way, which may not have been possible without undertaker. It's probably easier to restart the mission until you get the real Duke in his quarters so you don't have to drag him around.
Death to the Empress was very dull. With powers there's nobody who can see you creeping around overhead, and without, there's still plenty of stuff to climb on and plenty of nooks to hide in. They probably could have remodeled the tower a bit more from the first game, at least gotten rid of the high ledges running along the walls of like every room, or even have the witches look up at them occasionally, or sit on a chandelier here or there like in the conservatory. The witch standing watch in the ruined building on the streets is the only one who knows what she's doing in this whole mission. To be honest, I expected a lot more of that from witches, because they seem to fill the whalers' role in this game. Take those two witches at the gate in mission 5. They can teleport at will. Why did they set up on ground level when they can watch from overhead and instantly be in your face when they catch you? Where's the rooftop patrol route where they teleport from one to the next? That bit in flooded district was tough but also cool and I was very disappointed when it inexplicably stopped working correctly and didn't work again on any future playthrough.
Exactly one interesting moment: I was contemplating the dining room, and thought, why not just crawl under the table, from end to end? It totally works. Only the clockwork in the adjacent hall can possibly spot you, because it's far enough away to have line of sight.. if you're too close to that side of the table. The tree in the chapel isn't really designed for climbing but it works, and then you go from nook to nook to avoid exposing yourself to the witch in front of the old secret room, and then it's over.
The one overseer left alive in the courtyard gives you the Abbey's blessing if you talk to him with no powers, but I don't know whether that means anything. Can't imagine it's worth much, coming from a church that shits on people for entirely arbitrary reasons and hands out capital punishment without trial for petty theft.
Anyway, I still prefer playing with powers, but I really like the feeling of basically defeating Karnaca with only my wits, by going wholly unseen.
There's a whole lot of stuff you never see if you don't go down from your perch to look at it, and it was cool to look at some of it as well.
Also, hiding under tables is pretty good!
I thought it was strange how early you discover the Crown Killer's identity. I'd imagine it would be more interesting to occasionally catches glimpses of them on other missions first, but what do I know?
I wonder if they'll address (Dishonored 2 spoilers)
if you were able to change history so that Billie didn't lose the arm
But I imagine they'll have to get around that anyway since the robot arm seems to have a lot of uses in gameplay
Hey! I played a good chunk of this tonight! By which I mean I'm still on the first main chapter and spent a lot of time setting up elaborate murder trains for dumb guards
I also went sneaking into some shops in the area and found horrifying things and punished them what did it, without ever getting a quest or prompt from the game, which was really cool
I always went non-lethal in the main games so it's been fun to set up some more brutal ends this time around
Hey! I played a good chunk of this tonight! By which I mean I'm still on the first main chapter and spent a lot of time setting up elaborate murder trains for dumb guards
I also went sneaking into some shops in the area and found horrifying things and punished them what did it, without ever getting a quest or prompt from the game, which was really cool
I always went non-lethal in the main games so it's been fun to set up some more brutal ends this time around
The antique dealer with the bloodfly lab in the basement?
Hey! I played a good chunk of this tonight! By which I mean I'm still on the first main chapter and spent a lot of time setting up elaborate murder trains for dumb guards
I also went sneaking into some shops in the area and found horrifying things and punished them what did it, without ever getting a quest or prompt from the game, which was really cool
I always went non-lethal in the main games so it's been fun to set up some more brutal ends this time around
The antique dealer with the bloodfly lab in the basement?
Yuuuuuuup
I let the guy out, then went back upstairs and knocked the owner out, put her in the cell and released the flies
That shit was fucked
Hey! I played a good chunk of this tonight! By which I mean I'm still on the first main chapter and spent a lot of time setting up elaborate murder trains for dumb guards
I also went sneaking into some shops in the area and found horrifying things and punished them what did it, without ever getting a quest or prompt from the game, which was really cool
I always went non-lethal in the main games so it's been fun to set up some more brutal ends this time around
The antique dealer with the bloodfly lab in the basement?
Yuuuuuuup
I let the guy out, then went back upstairs and knocked the owner out, put her in the cell and released the flies
That shit was fucked
Yeah I did the same, then I put her body in the oven with the other dead one and blasted them. Got some blood amber for my effort.
y'all I fucking LOVE a good bank heist
I robbed the auction for a bottle of laudanum and then tipped that into the ventilation system on the roof of the bank and got to just sneak around the whole building with everyone unconscious
And then I figured out the combination to all the safes in the central vault was the damn Fibonacci sequence
And then I just fucking strolled out and hopped a boat,
see you later suckersssssssss
Posts
It feels like it has a bad case of "first level we made" syndrome, where you've got a level that's pretty overstuffed because it was the only place to put the ideas they had for a year.
If I tranq you and you fall off that ledge to your death, well
All I need now is for zephyr to also turn up before I hit the end.
e: well, I have just spent 4+ hours trying a no-powers, no takedowns run and it is bad. I didn't know that guy was there because I can't hear his footsteps, immediately spotted, reload. I tried to lean out to see where guys are and got spotted, reload. There was a guy off in the distance, spotted, reload. Couldn't make a jump or grab a ledge or something for no apparent reason, spotted, reload. Random guard behavior in response to a distraction didn't work out, spotted, reload.
It happens over and over and over and over to the point that I am sick of fighting the guys that saw me before reloading, and I liked the action in this game at one point.
I think what I really want is the stealth mechanics from OG Thief, and Dishonored does not do that and I should really not try to find them here. Gonna start a new run, still no takedowns, because that's the main thing, but with powers. I miss my hookshot arm.
Not regretting that decision at all; just got my powers from the nightmare/dream level and about to start the first real assassination mission. The mechanics are a little more simple, which does result in fewer non-lethal combat options (basically none, once spotted), but is definitely more manageable. Not trying anything extreme as far as non-lethal or ghost, but I'd like to keep it on the low chaos side (the game strong hints I should want to do this anyway).
The game also threw about a dozen Bone Charms at me, just sitting in my room at the pub. I can only assume that is some kind of definitive edition perk?
I can't remember what charms you get there. Any that seem overpowered for non-combat purposes?
In the end, I did Shadow/Clean Hands/Flesh and Steel on very hard mode, and only knocked out mandatory mission targets.
Some thoughts along the way:
First time is Addermire, the guy leaning on the railing by the watchtower. Jumping from the chain, below his vision, to the tower is impossible. I took the whale oil tank from the wall of light all the way up to where Hypatia hangs out and saved and chucked it from the fan box under the shutter until I got an angle where both guys down there were facing away from the tower long enough for me to jump down, sprint over to it, and disable it.
Second time is the clockwork mansion, the witch who sits on top of the guard post. From inside the guard post, since that's the closest I could get to the exit, I shot out the first window left of the wall of light blocking the station with my crossbow, after a lot of trial and error shooting at different walls around the front of the station.
Third time is dust district on the way out from Stilton manor, that elite guard from the previous mission is still there, leaning on the railing. Rather than make noise I waited awhile, hoping for a dust storm, and it happened and I didn't have to rely on random shit to leave.
Addermire and clockwork mansion are definitely the low points of this run - aside from stationary guards, there are a couple of seriously cruel rooms. For starters, you can't use the front door at Addermire, because the guy on the left will see you. I went in through the open shutter into a storage room off the kitchen. Don't even try the dining room, though. The wing where you find Hamilton and Vasco's lab is also pretty tough; there are pipes to climb on, but the two guards cover a lot of the room during their scripted bit and can easily see you before you even get to them.
Now lower Aventa, I have probably wasted the most time here, and the square in front of the station is the reason for my post earlier. There are like three guys on patrol who can see you while you try to come up the stairs to even start the level. Then you have to contend with them again to get into the alley; there's no cover so I had to sprint and hope they weren't looking. The door to the uppermost apartment over the alley can be blown open with a round from the pistol, and nobody seems to notice, so reaching the roof and the carriage is no problem. Heaven help you if you try to reach the black market though, because that's a one-way trip. You can certainly survive a fall from the station roof down to a wooden platform in a far corner, and then reach the market, but there are guards up on the sidewalk and Howlers block the back alley. I started making a lot of hard saves at this point on my second attempt at the run in order to avoid another Aventa black market. The rest of the level was incredibly tame by comparison. It did take a few tries to find the right angle to get inside the walls of the mansion off of one pull of the lever, I guess. There's also a bit where I trailed a guard up to the door to Jindosh's room and hid under a table until he went back the other way.
On the return trip, the witches make the lower Aventa square a lot easier, but it's still a pain because of the one on the guard post. The Howlers are gone at this point, so visiting the black market is possible.
Nothing notable happened in Dunwall because I took the train. I think the first one is scripted to come by when you get roughly within earshot of the guards talking about Ramsey. Edge of the World is also not bad, assuming you aren't trying for loot. See for example the loose change on a crate by the canal. I had a hard time grabbing that with powers. I stole the corpse for Mindy rather than try my luck in the station as well.
Hit a pretty big snag right away in royal conservatory. Left the windmill alone, thinking I could just walk into the side alley, but it's locked at ground level and I can't get up high enough to go over the gate. The guy who has the key is in the guard post, which has its door on the front. I figured it out, though - all of the nearby guards face away at the same time sometimes, and the guard with the key eventually goes to one of the built in desks, so I could drop down, pickpocket him, and get out and behind the post before anybody decided to turn around. The witch alternately leaning out to watch the gate was kind of annoying, but she hides for long enough intervals to climb up onto the thing on the left and go up above where she can see you. I think the shrine at the other end of the alley is a dead end; you can get over to it from a nearby roof, but not back, and there are three officers hanging out in that one corner for some reason. The inside of the conservatory was a bit tricky as well. Without blink/reach, the elevator shaft is the only way up to the fourth "floor" other than through Breanna's office. Gravehounds guard the elevator on all main floors, as well as the front office door and the side window. However, the basement level is wide open. After that you just grab the lenses, wait a bit, stick them in, and pull the lever and you have free reign of the building. Three witches sadly died in the process because a bottle of exploding rum fell over somehow. I heard the crash and thought nothing of it at first, and found their burnt corpses while scouring the first floor for loot.
Returning from the conservatory, there's a billboard kind of thing on the opposite end of the building from the apartment shortcut where you can climb up and along to pass through the arch above the wall of light, rather than deal with any ground patrols, so that was nice.
Dust district is almost a freebie - by necessity, because knocking out either clown in chief would break the rules. Stooge number three hangs out here though. Stilton manor is already a no-powers zone, but you can't double jump, so there are some inaccessible ledges and such, but nothing super important. Unfortunately for Stilton, I have to let him attend the seance.
Palace district gives you a straight shot with almost no patrols to the black market, to buy the favor that shuts off the rails, and then back, and then you're at the palace. I'm not sure if there's a trigger for the favor being available, but it wasn't for sale the first time I got there, so I backed up to hear the whole conversation with the smuggler first and then it was there. At this point I have a load of cash and a couple of the more significant bone charms already, so I stopped going out of my way for anything.
The palace itself is intimidating at first, but after some searching, I was able to climb up onto the roof anyway. Running jump from the rail bridge cable to the station overhang, jump from the overhang onto a clock to the right, jump from the clock to a large standing lamp, over to some elevated topiary, then hop down behind the guards and around the corner, behind the guard watching the hedges, along the wall and then you're on the roof of the throne room. From the end of the ledge outside the office, you can jump off and grab onto the roof over the entry areas. On the second lowest platform of that roof, if you leap from the "corner" top, you can then grab the divider and climb up and go all the way up to the topmost point of the palace. The Duke was in the throne room, so I also hauled him up this way, which may not have been possible without undertaker. It's probably easier to restart the mission until you get the real Duke in his quarters so you don't have to drag him around.
Death to the Empress was very dull. With powers there's nobody who can see you creeping around overhead, and without, there's still plenty of stuff to climb on and plenty of nooks to hide in. They probably could have remodeled the tower a bit more from the first game, at least gotten rid of the high ledges running along the walls of like every room, or even have the witches look up at them occasionally, or sit on a chandelier here or there like in the conservatory. The witch standing watch in the ruined building on the streets is the only one who knows what she's doing in this whole mission. To be honest, I expected a lot more of that from witches, because they seem to fill the whalers' role in this game. Take those two witches at the gate in mission 5. They can teleport at will. Why did they set up on ground level when they can watch from overhead and instantly be in your face when they catch you? Where's the rooftop patrol route where they teleport from one to the next? That bit in flooded district was tough but also cool and I was very disappointed when it inexplicably stopped working correctly and didn't work again on any future playthrough.
Exactly one interesting moment: I was contemplating the dining room, and thought, why not just crawl under the table, from end to end? It totally works. Only the clockwork in the adjacent hall can possibly spot you, because it's far enough away to have line of sight.. if you're too close to that side of the table. The tree in the chapel isn't really designed for climbing but it works, and then you go from nook to nook to avoid exposing yourself to the witch in front of the old secret room, and then it's over.
The one overseer left alive in the courtyard gives you the Abbey's blessing if you talk to him with no powers, but I don't know whether that means anything. Can't imagine it's worth much, coming from a church that shits on people for entirely arbitrary reasons and hands out capital punishment without trial for petty theft.
There's a whole lot of stuff you never see if you don't go down from your perch to look at it, and it was cool to look at some of it as well.
Also, hiding under tables is pretty good!
I just got this and I have a really fucking bizarre question about an audio log I found on the boat at the end of the intro level
and I kinda just want a yes or no answer, trying to avoid spoilery tidbits but this is killing me
I am going very lethal.
Sorry dudes, you fucked with the wrong Empress.
"Sandra has a good solid anti-murderer vibe. My skin felt very secure and sufficiently attached to my body when I met her. Also my organs." HAIL SATAN
I think no, but need more information:
If you really want to know who the Crown Killer is
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
i'm trying to remember but i'm pretty sure it didn't and you misheard a thing
there certainly wasn't anything on THE boat, if i can remember right
Steam // Secret Satan
Pretty much everybody in the first level deserves to die
I spent the entire rest of the game clawing my way back from that initial high chaos rating but they all had it coming
's what I'm saying, man.
Just following orders didn't fly as an excuse for Nazis and it ain't flying in Dunwall.
I haven't murdered anyone in Karnaca... Yet. But there's still a probably that this play-through will end with this:
"Sandra has a good solid anti-murderer vibe. My skin felt very secure and sufficiently attached to my body when I met her. Also my organs." HAIL SATAN
I wonder if they'll address (Dishonored 2 spoilers)
But I imagine they'll have to get around that anyway since the robot arm seems to have a lot of uses in gameplay
I had a question here but disregard it
Okay everyone let's get to murdering
There's no chaos system, right? So I can actually go lethal this time
I'm pretty sure there is? Googling seems to indicate there is but I don't want to spoil anything for myself.
edit: I've also seen at least one thing in the first mission I'm pretty sure is affected by Chaos.
I feel like Billie would shank a dude so murder it is
I also went sneaking into some shops in the area and found horrifying things and punished them what did it, without ever getting a quest or prompt from the game, which was really cool
I always went non-lethal in the main games so it's been fun to set up some more brutal ends this time around
Steam ID - VeldrinD | SS Post | Wishlist
Yuuuuuuup
That shit was fucked
Steam ID - VeldrinD | SS Post | Wishlist
I robbed the auction for a bottle of laudanum and then tipped that into the ventilation system on the roof of the bank and got to just sneak around the whole building with everyone unconscious
And then I figured out the combination to all the safes in the central vault was the damn Fibonacci sequence
And then I just fucking strolled out and hopped a boat,
see you later suckersssssssss