I would be interested in a TI4 but I think if they changed it enough that I would actually have a chance in hell of playing it it wouldn't be TI enough to satisfy anyone. So my expectations are low.
Second game I have ever backed, but I love me some Flashpoint, so this new expac is right up my alley
I was disappointed in the game of Flashpoint they ran on Tabletop, because they set the difficulty way too high for a group of novices who didnt even go for an optimal team or strategy. Even before they started I could tell they didnt have a chance to come out on top.
Be warned that indie cards and games are famous for not being able to match card sizes or colours between prints (or even believing it's possible) so expansion materials can't be blended invisibly with base copies that weren't produced during the same print run. I'm not super familiar with the game so maybe it doesn't matter but it caused a bit of drama with the coup and the resistance expansions.
That shouldn't affect this game at all, except perhaps the poi markers but they aren't usually next to another to compare during a game.
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Mojo_JojoWe are only now beginning to understand the full power and ramifications of sexual intercourseRegistered Userregular
That is far more similar to TI3 than I was expecting
Changes:
These changes include but are not limited to:
Trade - Trade contracts do not exist in Twilight Imperium Fourth Edition. Instead, commodities are traded between factions who have ships in adjacent systems. Every time the trade strategy card is used, its primary ability allows a faction to “refresh” their commodities. Then, that faction may choose to let any other factions refresh their commodities for free. Other factions may then use trade’s secondary ability to spend a token from their strategy pool to refresh their commodities. Commodities do nothing on their own, but become traditional trade goods when given to another faction.
Technology - Twilight Imperium Third Edition featured elaborate tech trees as a pathway to powerful technologies. The process of researching technology has been streamlined, as there are no longer specific technologies that are prerequisites for other advancements in Twilight Imperium Fourth Edition. Instead, certain types of technology are used as prerequisites—a new tech may require three Biotic Technologies, or two Warfare and a Cybernetic Technology, making prerequisites easy to track.
PDS Units and Space Docks - Previously, PDS units and Space Docks were constructed like any other unit, requiring a resource cost and an activation token to place on a planet. Now, PDS Units and Space Docks are created with the Construction strategy card, which allows a player to place either two PDS units on planets you control, or a PDS and a Space Dock on planets you control. The secondary ability allows a player to spend a token from their strategy pool to place a PDS or Space Dock on one of their planets.
Politics - Previously, in Third Edition, the politics phase began with the primary ability of the Politics strategy card. Now the agenda phase occurs at the end of every round after Mecatol Rex has been claimed. Players get to refresh all their planets for the agenda phase, meaning they don’t have to split their planets for use between resources and influence. Like Third Edition, agenda cards are used to pass new laws in the galaxy, flipped from the top of the deck. After one law is voted on, a second card is flipped and another round of voting occurs. Planets are refreshed again after the agenda phase ends.
Imperial Strategy Card - Previously, the Imperial strategy card’s primary ability allowed for the user to receive two victory points. Now, the card’s primary ability allows a player to receive one victory point if they control Mecatol Rex or receive an additional Secret Objective. This Imperial strategy card is more flexible but still provides a pacing element, and can be used as a powerful tool if selected at the right time.
All sounds quite sensible. The politics and trade shakeups are the biggies
Surprised to see they didn't make combat better
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AthenorBattle Hardened OptimistThe Skies of HiigaraRegistered Userregular
Am I the only one waiting for the expansion so we can start calling it TI 4X?
I'm excited about this but I hope I hear about a lot more changes.... a fourth edition needs to get the playtime under 4 hours.
I'll be honest - I disagree. It is a massive game.. one that is supposed to represent basically MoO in board game form. If I wanted a more streamlined, faster game, I can get a ton of different alternatives.
Now, that said? The RULES and gameplay mechanics need to be streamlined. TI3 is nearly impossible to teach, because of how hard it is to see the end goal from the start point, let alone understanding all the levers you have.
So if this edition is basically doing that - better symbols, clearer actions and windows and player interactions? That's pretty much perfect. Plus, looking at the minis, it looks like they are bringing over the best things from the expansions.
Man, if TI4 is a lead-up announcement for GenCon... I wonder what's getting surprised-announced at the In-Flight Report? A digital version published by Paradox? Fallout RPG supplement for Genesys?
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+1
AthenorBattle Hardened OptimistThe Skies of HiigaraRegistered Userregular
AthenorBattle Hardened OptimistThe Skies of HiigaraRegistered Userregular
It does look like it is a straight up replacement for TI3 + expansions. 17 races out of the box, separating components clearer between player and race, so on and so forth.
I kind of want more play out of my third edition before I splurge on fourth. But still. I'll probably get it.
I'm pretty lucky in that I've played the base game a couple of dozen times. With the expansion I've only managed three or four games though. But overall it's high value!
I'd be a fool not to get 4e!
Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
I was just discussing with a friend re: Eclipse versus TI. Where do y'all stand on this. Having played both only once, Eclipse felt a lot more elegant to me. I definitely missed the political phase from TI though.
I guess ... I kinda felt after Eclipse that I'd have very little reason to play TI again. Can't say that this doesn't itch a little though.
Yeah. Looks like race-specific tokens (the middle) and technologies (the left) are still present. 62 minis per color (x6). 54 planet tiles + their cards, each race having their own start (yay, the ghosts are back, wormhole shenanigans!), and.. yeaaah. It's just SO MUCH SHIT.
I'm excited about this but I hope I hear about a lot more changes.... a fourth edition needs to get the playtime under 4 hours.
This was never on the table for TI. TI is THE HUGE SPACE GAME and they wouldn't/shouldn't mess with that. if anything I could see them coming it with TI lite of some kind set in the same universe, but even that I wouldn't hold my breath for.
Well this probably does mean we'll see a few more bits and bobs in the setting. I wonder if they have advanced the plot. I wonder what the plot was.
Given the 17 races includes all the ones from the expansions except the historical setting.. who knows?
The mini-doc sheds light on this. When FFG said there was no cost cap and they were okay with this game losing money, they have NO PROBLEM making it be a game that takes a weekend to play.
I was just discussing with a friend re: Eclipse versus TI. Where do y'all stand on this. Having played both only once, Eclipse felt a lot more elegant to me. I definitely missed the political phase from TI though.
I guess ... I kinda felt after Eclipse that I'd have very little reason to play TI again. Can't say that this doesn't itch a little though.
TI is the better game to have on your shelf and theorycraft about. Eclipse is the waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better game to actually play. The main reason being that, unless you are playing with a full table who have absolutely no analyses-paralysis and who have played TI3 many times and know the rules down pat, by the time you get to the point in the game where every decision is most crucial and there is the most stuff happening at least a couple (if not all) of the players are going to be exhausted, bored, checked-out and just overall not giving a fuck anymore.
I was just discussing with a friend re: Eclipse versus TI. Where do y'all stand on this. Having played both only once, Eclipse felt a lot more elegant to me. I definitely missed the political phase from TI though.
I guess ... I kinda felt after Eclipse that I'd have very little reason to play TI again. Can't say that this doesn't itch a little though.
TI is the better game to have on your shelf and theorycraft about. Eclipse is the waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better game to actually play. The main reason being that, unless you are playing with a full table who have absolutely no analyses-paralysis and who have played TI3 many times and know the rules down pat, by the time you get to the point in the game where every decision is most crucial and there is the most stuff happening at least a couple (if not all) of the players are going to be exhausted, bored, checked-out and just overall not giving a fuck anymore.
I've found that even with Eclipse, the first game generally ends *right* as new players start to grasp what every means and their implications. The benefit is that a game of Eclipse can be done in under 2 hours (much less with experienced people). So you have much more of a shot of a game 2. I've never actually successfully completed a game of TI.
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I was just discussing with a friend re: Eclipse versus TI. Where do y'all stand on this. Having played both only once, Eclipse felt a lot more elegant to me. I definitely missed the political phase from TI though.
I guess ... I kinda felt after Eclipse that I'd have very little reason to play TI again. Can't say that this doesn't itch a little though.
I've only played TI the once, and Eclipse twice, but I definitely think Eclipse is the better game, and one I'm more likely to want to play. But it's also true that Eclipse has a smaller scope than TI does, it doesn't try to be as many things.
edit:: I am intrigued by the changes they've listed though. I'm not sure if it's enough for me to want to give it another shot - if it still has dice combat and the action cards I'm not super interested.
Speaking of long games, my copy of Through The Ages came today! My wife and I have a first game scheduled tomorrow. I am so so pumped.
And a friend of ours told me the other day that b Fury of Dracula is their favorite game out of all the ones they've played with us and they want to play it more regularly. My wife doesn't like it (more accurately she likes the first two hours of it, and then it takes 2-3 more hours to end), so we're making plans to play it 2p on the regular and I'm REAL INTO THAT. definitely seems like a game that will get interesting the more you play it against a regular opponent.
The most surprising thing about TI for me is that they aren't looking at app integration.
app integration for a game like this is tricky. For all boardgames, but especially anything remotely 4x-ish, a satisfying amount of complexity on the table translates to a shallow, boring game on the computer with exactly the same rules. Adding app support can easily end up with a situation where the boardgame is still on the complex side but starts feeling shallow.
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+1
Mojo_JojoWe are only now beginning to understand the full power and ramifications of sexual intercourseRegistered Userregular
The most surprising thing about TI for me is that they aren't looking at app integration.
And we're all very thankful. I'm not really sure what an app would do for it. There isn't any DM role to automate or universally secret info needed. I suppose it could speed up combat by taking away the rolling but that would be even worse
Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
I was just discussing with a friend re: Eclipse versus TI. Where do y'all stand on this. Having played both only once, Eclipse felt a lot more elegant to me. I definitely missed the political phase from TI though.
I guess ... I kinda felt after Eclipse that I'd have very little reason to play TI again. Can't say that this doesn't itch a little though.
Very different games; Eclipse is ultimately a space-themed engine builder with some light combat elements. TI is an extravagant space empire storytelling game with some light engine elements. Both good. Both worth owning.
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AthenorBattle Hardened OptimistThe Skies of HiigaraRegistered Userregular
Good point. There isn't exactly huge number crunching in TI.
Combat and sprawl weren't my issues with TI3. It was mostly the race imbalance and the rest of a game being decided on your secret objectives and the map. It got to the point where, if you knew everyone's secret objective, you could take a look at the map and races to predict the winner (or at least the top 2 finishers) right at setup with 90% accuracy. Get impossible objectives (I have to hold all wormholes in a game with the wormhole nexus and the Ghosts of Creuss? Ha!)? You were effectively eliminated right from the start of an 8 hour game.
Other niggling stuff like the tech tree having most all the tech worth getting in the first tier. Or 90% of the political proposals being crap that you'd rather just burn for a trade good (the designers seemed to always believe that influence was just as useful as resources).
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Release multiple expansions for base game -> once it becomes bloated, release new edition streamlining all expansion rules into base game-> repeat
Ah, the Fantasy Flight Games circle of life.
To be fair it's well over a decade old and the previous two editions were both very distinct. A new edition that modernises it would be welcome
Also I don't think there's much water in the argument that the expansions bloated it
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/twilight-imperium-fourth-edition/
it feels really old, older than a decade
i think the time since it's release has been a bunch of high velocity improvements and developments in the industry
That shouldn't affect this game at all, except perhaps the poi markers but they aren't usually next to another to compare during a game.
That is far more similar to TI3 than I was expecting
Changes:
All sounds quite sensible. The politics and trade shakeups are the biggies
Surprised to see they didn't make combat better
https://www.shutupandsitdown.com/videos/announcing-our-twilight-imperium-4th-edition-mini-doc/
It's listed as 4-8, so the same or possibly a little longer if accurate
I'll be honest - I disagree. It is a massive game.. one that is supposed to represent basically MoO in board game form. If I wanted a more streamlined, faster game, I can get a ton of different alternatives.
Now, that said? The RULES and gameplay mechanics need to be streamlined. TI3 is nearly impossible to teach, because of how hard it is to see the end goal from the start point, let alone understanding all the levers you have.
So if this edition is basically doing that - better symbols, clearer actions and windows and player interactions? That's pretty much perfect. Plus, looking at the minis, it looks like they are bringing over the best things from the expansions.
... Now to go and deep dive/ read what's up.
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SU&SD knew about this project from 2014?!
I wonder if the NA Office and Paul's move was related to this? Haven't watched the video yet due to being at work.
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Stop, my heart can't take it!
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
Also, I guess this is a new box design.
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I'm pretty lucky in that I've played the base game a couple of dozen times. With the expansion I've only managed three or four games though. But overall it's high value!
I'd be a fool not to get 4e!
I guess ... I kinda felt after Eclipse that I'd have very little reason to play TI again. Can't say that this doesn't itch a little though.
Yeah. Looks like race-specific tokens (the middle) and technologies (the left) are still present. 62 minis per color (x6). 54 planet tiles + their cards, each race having their own start (yay, the ghosts are back, wormhole shenanigans!), and.. yeaaah. It's just SO MUCH SHIT.
This was never on the table for TI. TI is THE HUGE SPACE GAME and they wouldn't/shouldn't mess with that. if anything I could see them coming it with TI lite of some kind set in the same universe, but even that I wouldn't hold my breath for.
Given the 17 races includes all the ones from the expansions except the historical setting.. who knows?
The mini-doc sheds light on this. When FFG said there was no cost cap and they were okay with this game losing money, they have NO PROBLEM making it be a game that takes a weekend to play.
TI is the better game to have on your shelf and theorycraft about. Eclipse is the waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better game to actually play. The main reason being that, unless you are playing with a full table who have absolutely no analyses-paralysis and who have played TI3 many times and know the rules down pat, by the time you get to the point in the game where every decision is most crucial and there is the most stuff happening at least a couple (if not all) of the players are going to be exhausted, bored, checked-out and just overall not giving a fuck anymore.
I've found that even with Eclipse, the first game generally ends *right* as new players start to grasp what every means and their implications. The benefit is that a game of Eclipse can be done in under 2 hours (much less with experienced people). So you have much more of a shot of a game 2. I've never actually successfully completed a game of TI.
I've only played TI the once, and Eclipse twice, but I definitely think Eclipse is the better game, and one I'm more likely to want to play. But it's also true that Eclipse has a smaller scope than TI does, it doesn't try to be as many things.
edit:: I am intrigued by the changes they've listed though. I'm not sure if it's enough for me to want to give it another shot - if it still has dice combat and the action cards I'm not super interested.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
And a friend of ours told me the other day that b Fury of Dracula is their favorite game out of all the ones they've played with us and they want to play it more regularly. My wife doesn't like it (more accurately she likes the first two hours of it, and then it takes 2-3 more hours to end), so we're making plans to play it 2p on the regular and I'm REAL INTO THAT. definitely seems like a game that will get interesting the more you play it against a regular opponent.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
app integration for a game like this is tricky. For all boardgames, but especially anything remotely 4x-ish, a satisfying amount of complexity on the table translates to a shallow, boring game on the computer with exactly the same rules. Adding app support can easily end up with a situation where the boardgame is still on the complex side but starts feeling shallow.
And we're all very thankful. I'm not really sure what an app would do for it. There isn't any DM role to automate or universally secret info needed. I suppose it could speed up combat by taking away the rolling but that would be even worse
Very different games; Eclipse is ultimately a space-themed engine builder with some light combat elements. TI is an extravagant space empire storytelling game with some light engine elements. Both good. Both worth owning.
I'd rather play TI any game of the week, sure it's longer but every move brings you closer to other players or causes interaction with players.
Other niggling stuff like the tech tree having most all the tech worth getting in the first tier. Or 90% of the political proposals being crap that you'd rather just burn for a trade good (the designers seemed to always believe that influence was just as useful as resources).