Play 1 red, 3, 2, 2 (Tribute in Asia) blue, 3 and 3 yellow.
Attack in Syria - 1 red
Geth roll 3d6h3 for army
Geth roll 2d6h4 for barbarians
Replace governor in Pannonia - 7 blue
Geth roll 7d6 for governor
Support Check Phase -1 support in each of your provinces containing a Rival Emperor, active barbarians and/or an enemy army in the capital.
If Emperor, -1 support to Italia if a Pretender or Rival Emperor is on the map.
-1 support in Pannonia due to enemy army in the capital.
Expand Pretender Empire Phase Provinces you govern with a support level of 3+ adjacent to your Pretender Empire join it.
N/A
Gain Legacy Phase Gain Legacy for governed provinces, improvements and being Emperor or Pretender.
6 Legacy gained: 4 Provinces governed; 2 Improvements.
Buy/Trash Cards Phase You may discard cards from your hand before buying/trashing cards.
N/A
End of Turn Phase Flip inactive barbarians in your provinces to their active sides.
Cniva in Asia is flipped to active.
Add one Mob counter to each of your provinces with Mobs.
Diocletian, Latin in full Gaius Aurelius Valerius Diocletianus, original name Diocles (born 245 ce, Salonae?, Dalmatia [now Solin, Croatia]—died 316, Salonae), Roman emperor (284–305 ce), who restored efficient government to the empire after the near anarchy of the 3rd century. His reorganization of the fiscal, administrative, and military machinery of the empire laid the foundation for the Byzantine Empire in the East and temporarily shored up the decaying empire in the West. His reign is also noted for the last great persecution of the Christians.
Thanks for hosting a game I otherwise would have missed.
It's interesting. I like the idea of always trying to grab Italia. It's a good touch that they made the events on the cards weaker or stronger to balance out how useful the colors are (yellow is the least useful over time, hence the most useful events).
It seems like it might do too much to encourage static turtling though. Having to pay for army movement and battle initiation discourages a lot of attacking. The castra defense bonus is a lot stronger than the flanking maneuver which is supposed to encourage offense but is rarely going to make any difference. It's not like you can wear someone down either because you can assign all hits to reducing legions and restoring wounded legions costs so little (and can be done even if you don't govern the region).
Mostly though it seems like Italia just isn't that important. Barbarian farming and improvement building ended up providing more points than becoming emperor, which is supposed to be the focus of the whole game. Once someone gets a pretender card, being emperor is almost pointless.
Thanks for hosting a game I otherwise would have missed.
It's interesting. I like the idea of always trying to grab Italia. It's a good touch that they made the events on the cards weaker or stronger to balance out how useful the colors are (yellow is the least useful over time, hence the most useful events).
It seems like it might do too much to encourage static turtling though. Having to pay for army movement and battle initiation discourages a lot of attacking. The castra defense bonus is a lot stronger than the flanking maneuver which is supposed to encourage offense but is rarely going to make any difference. It's not like you can wear someone down either because you can assign all hits to reducing legions and restoring wounded legions costs so little (and can be done even if you don't govern the region).
Mostly though it seems like Italia just isn't that important. Barbarian farming and improvement building ended up providing more points than becoming emperor, which is supposed to be the focus of the whole game. Once someone gets a pretender card, being emperor is almost pointless.
I agree killing barbarians and building improvements are good point-getters but I'm not sure being Emperor after a pretender appears is pointless. I think they were trying to encourage the Emperor to go and smack a pretender around, like Hedgethorn tried to do. If he would've won that fight, Daemonis' kingdom would've fallen and he would have gotten more points.
I think that turtling is not a winning strategy, as the other players would probably move against that player, if he's racking up the points.
I also think that not trashing 1-point red cards is the way to go, since they can be useful in some way almost all the time. Most military actions are 1 pointers so, as you get more red cards, your military gets even more active, even if the events aren't so great. I see the flanking maneuver as just a safeguard against really bad luck, which, as you said, rarely makes a difference. 1-point blues are bad and I try to dump them asap.
HedgethornAssociate Professor of Historical Hobby HorsesIn the Lions' DenRegistered Userregular
One thing I realized with only a couple turns to go by reading the BGG forums is that you can move your armies into the barbarian territories and attack them there. I suspected no one else knew that, otherwise I would have gone and attacked the Goths homeland on my last turn rather than Daemonis -- it would have been a more likely victory for the same number of points, if I calculated correctly.
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HedgethornAssociate Professor of Historical Hobby HorsesIn the Lions' DenRegistered Userregular
Yeah, and that Limes I built on the second or third turn made all the difference -- that was 9 points or so all by itself.
In theory you could go after the turtler, but you have to pay the movement and battle cost which already puts you behind. Then on top of needing to outnumber the defender, you need an extra 1.5 legions on top of that to offset a castra, which come on the cheapest red card. And like Hedgethorn said, it's more beneficial to smack around barbarians than it is to go after other players. I understand that they need to provide points for barbarians or otherwise the game would just be who lucked out avoiding them, but I think they overdid it.
I have no clue why I picked Africa. Seems like the worst location. The Gallia to Thracia corridor seems like it has an advantage over Asia and Africa.
I built an amphitheater just for the heck of it on the very last turn. Seems like a really worthless building that you'd never want over the limes or basilica.
One thing I realized with only a couple turns to go by reading the BGG forums is that you can move your armies into the barbarian territories and attack them there. I suspected no one else knew that, otherwise I would have gone and attacked the Goths homeland on my last turn rather than Daemonis -- it would have been a more likely victory for the same number of points, if I calculated correctly.
Yeah, that can be fun. I did that in one game but my force got it's ass handed to it by the Franks. I never really had the opportunity to recover and make another attempt at it since so much else was needed in the Empire.
I have no clue why I picked Africa. Seems like the worst location. The Gallia to Thracia corridor seems like it has an advantage over Asia and Africa.
I built an amphitheater just for the heck of it on the very last turn. Seems like a really worthless building that you'd never want over the limes or basilica.
Africa & the East are for pretenders, generally.
Gallia & Pannonia being right next to Rome are nice.
I usually take Gallia, if it's available.
Daemonis beating you to being a pretender was the problem.
For some reason I was imagining using Africa as this little corner fortress to launch sweeping raids out of, from Brtiannia to Macedonia. That extra red point to cross the water though really does make a big difference early on though.
Although now that I look at it, Blue might be the least useful color. I thought it would be the best since you could instantly snatch anything anywhere with it, but with an army in place you can just bypass the need for them as well as shield yourself from offensive votes.
The blue events are definitely the weakest. Who on earth would want to use the blue 4 event? It hurts you just as much as the target. Possibly more. I could only ever see using this on the very last turn.
Who on earth would want to use the blue 4 event? It hurts you just as much as the target. Possibly more. I could only ever see using this on the very last turn.
Although now that I look at it, Blue might be the least useful color. I thought it would be the best since you could instantly snatch anything anywhere with it, but with an army in place you can just bypass the need for them as well as shield yourself from offensive votes.
The blue events are definitely the weakest. Who on earth would want to use the blue 4 event? It hurts you just as much as the target. Possibly more. I could only ever see using this on the very last turn.
I decided on the first turn to trash my blue ones as fast as possible, as they seemed the most useless cards. 1 Red and 1 Yellow can be useful, but you need multiple blue points to do anything after the first turn or so.
I'm almost thinking that even buying 2s and 3s was a mistake. Reds can take the place of blues to the point that even late in the game you don't need more than a couple blue points to take over a territory.
Now I'm thinking that it's a bad thing to bribe barbarians into joining you. That's legacy points you're missing out on to add a crappy half legion to your army.
Posts
Fixed.
Hedgethorn & Preda had a turn each that shouldn't have been counted.
The Black Hole of Cygnus X-1
Attack in Syria - 1 red
Geth roll 3d6h3 for army
Geth roll 2d6h4 for barbarians
Replace governor in Pannonia - 7 blue
Geth roll 7d6 for governor
Build Limes in Galatia - 3 yellow.
End of game
@stever777
Support Check Phase
-1 support in each of your provinces containing a Rival Emperor, active barbarians and/or an enemy army in the capital.
If Emperor, -1 support to Italia if a Pretender or Rival Emperor is on the map.
-1 support in Pannonia due to enemy army in the capital.
Expand Pretender Empire Phase
Provinces you govern with a support level of 3+ adjacent to your Pretender Empire join it.
N/A
Gain Legacy Phase
Gain Legacy for governed provinces, improvements and being Emperor or Pretender.
6 Legacy gained: 4 Provinces governed; 2 Improvements.
Buy/Trash Cards Phase
You may discard cards from your hand before buying/trashing cards.
N/A
End of Turn Phase
Flip inactive barbarians in your provinces to their active sides.
Cniva in Asia is flipped to active.
Add one Mob counter to each of your provinces with Mobs.
N/A
Refill your hand to five cards.
N/A
The Black Hole of Cygnus X-1
Final Legacy Points
Hedgethorn 66 + 3 = 69
MrBody 50 + 10 = 60
Preda 61 + 6 = 67
Daemonis 60 + 0 = 60
All Hail Emperor Hedgethorn for holding the Empire together until Diocletian arrived to get it back on track!
Congrats, Hedgethorn!
GG, all.
Final map
The Black Hole of Cygnus X-1
The Black Hole of Cygnus X-1
It's interesting. I like the idea of always trying to grab Italia. It's a good touch that they made the events on the cards weaker or stronger to balance out how useful the colors are (yellow is the least useful over time, hence the most useful events).
It seems like it might do too much to encourage static turtling though. Having to pay for army movement and battle initiation discourages a lot of attacking. The castra defense bonus is a lot stronger than the flanking maneuver which is supposed to encourage offense but is rarely going to make any difference. It's not like you can wear someone down either because you can assign all hits to reducing legions and restoring wounded legions costs so little (and can be done even if you don't govern the region).
Mostly though it seems like Italia just isn't that important. Barbarian farming and improvement building ended up providing more points than becoming emperor, which is supposed to be the focus of the whole game. Once someone gets a pretender card, being emperor is almost pointless.
I agree killing barbarians and building improvements are good point-getters but I'm not sure being Emperor after a pretender appears is pointless. I think they were trying to encourage the Emperor to go and smack a pretender around, like Hedgethorn tried to do. If he would've won that fight, Daemonis' kingdom would've fallen and he would have gotten more points.
I think that turtling is not a winning strategy, as the other players would probably move against that player, if he's racking up the points.
I also think that not trashing 1-point red cards is the way to go, since they can be useful in some way almost all the time. Most military actions are 1 pointers so, as you get more red cards, your military gets even more active, even if the events aren't so great. I see the flanking maneuver as just a safeguard against really bad luck, which, as you said, rarely makes a difference. 1-point blues are bad and I try to dump them asap.
The Black Hole of Cygnus X-1
I have no clue why I picked Africa. Seems like the worst location. The Gallia to Thracia corridor seems like it has an advantage over Asia and Africa.
I built an amphitheater just for the heck of it on the very last turn. Seems like a really worthless building that you'd never want over the limes or basilica.
Yeah, that can be fun. I did that in one game but my force got it's ass handed to it by the Franks. I never really had the opportunity to recover and make another attempt at it since so much else was needed in the Empire.
Africa & the East are for pretenders, generally.
Gallia & Pannonia being right next to Rome are nice.
I usually take Gallia, if it's available.
Daemonis beating you to being a pretender was the problem.
The Black Hole of Cygnus X-1
The blue events are definitely the weakest. Who on earth would want to use the blue 4 event? It hurts you just as much as the target. Possibly more. I could only ever see using this on the very last turn.
I've never even seen it purchased.
The Black Hole of Cygnus X-1
I decided on the first turn to trash my blue ones as fast as possible, as they seemed the most useless cards. 1 Red and 1 Yellow can be useful, but you need multiple blue points to do anything after the first turn or so.
Now I'm thinking that it's a bad thing to bribe barbarians into joining you. That's legacy points you're missing out on to add a crappy half legion to your army.