BBT gets a laugh out of me once in a while, but the show's on it's 12th or 13th season now, and it honestly should just end soon. Semi-spoilery alert: 3 of the 4 guys have girlfriends/fiancees/wives now, including the one no one ever thought would end up with one. Isn't this about the time now when you can just end the show with "And they lived happily ever after?"
But something is more offensive than BBT now. Young fucking Sheldon. I can't stand shows that use the kid as the main star. Kids as co-stars, like Full House, Malcolm in the Middle or hell, even Three and A Half Men, I'm somehow fine with, but you take the worst character from a main show, and give them a spin-off series which involves a whole new cast of unknown actors to try to make bank, and I just hope the show gets canned before it can be renewed for a second season.
Of course, it won't be. Better shows have gotten and will be axed before Young Sheldon does. *grumble*
It's not gonna end anytime soon, the show is ranked something like 8th highest in the Nielsen ratings, and considering that CBS entire business plan is to cling to a borderline archeological target demographic, they're not abandoning it anytime soon.
I'm trying to figure out why this feels different than BBT to me, and if I think it really should. Of course, the easy answer is "it's okay because he's a nerd". But the more you look into his background, he seems like a totally different kind of nerd than the type he was mocking. I continue to ponder.
One thing I ask in contrasting the 2, "where's the humor?"
Wish the board had a "Thanks for the post, I have read it and found it to give me something to think about" button, rather than just "Agree" and "Awesome". (I'm pretty sure there used to be more buttons, too many buttons, but it's been long enough that I can't remember.)
They sometimes add new buttons for a time. There was a "vote up" and a "hail Hydra" I can remember.
Well, those two videos cemented me never watching BBT by choice.
Honestly I found them super informative in general. And as someone who is going to be raising a boy in merica and probably in geeky pursuits, it really helped show me a side of toxic masculinity I hadn't really considered as hard as I should have.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Yeah, I'll agree BBT has more of a gender problem than a geek-bashing problem. Though arguably not moreso than your average middling multicamera CBS sitcom.
Yeah, I'll agree BBT has more of a gender problem than a geek-bashing problem. Though arguably not moreso than your average middling multicamera CBS sitcom.
The problem with this though is that pop culture sets the expectation. One of the reasons are awful gender roles and sexism has survived the decades is its reinforced by tv and movies.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I find the characters in almost all network TV and specifically sitcoms to be unlikeable and unrealistic props. BBT is on the same level to me as most sitcoms. To be fair, I even found The Guild to be way too sitcommy. In general I think the major networks would have a hard time making a show that appeals to geeks. Most geeks I know don't have cable. Then again, they really don't need us.
Young Sheldon worries me because of the unfortunate assocation Sheldon has with people's idea of autism. And while an "autism adjacent" character like Drax the Destroyer treats his personality as endearing and relatable, Sheldon seems mostly to be played for laughs as a character you aren't supposed to "like", sort of a Dwight Schrute.
I have no problem putting up with, "I love BBT, it reminds me of you!" But I would hate for a parent of an autistic child to be told by a friend, "I've been watching Young Sheldon, and it really makes me understand more of what you're going through!"
BBT is a good case of how sitcoms use laugh tracks to manipulate the intent of a scene. Compare a scene almost right out of Family matters between Urkel and Laura: the male character throws himself at a female who doesn't want his attention, becomes hurt by her rebuff, female becomes sympathetic out of guilt and offers comfort, male misreads and tries to kiss her, female breaks his face.
In Family Matters, almost the same sequence of events unfolded with the laugh track gasping at the initial insult, going "awwwww..." as Steve's feelings were hurt, and shocked gasps when she hit him, but excited "ooooohs" as he hit on Laura.
BBT, the cheers are for Howard getting his feelings and eventually face hurt, with the laughs following him as long as his bruises persisted.
Exact same situation, except the laugh track established Urkel as the good guy and Laura as the bully, but Howard as the aggressor and Penny as the avatar of his comeuppance.
A lot of talk about -isms in sitcoms revolve around turning off the laugh track and exposing how weird or wrong or creepy the content is. But as cheap and tacky as laugh tracks are, they're not an unrelated add-on, they carry relevant information, because they never misread the writer's intentions or sympathize with the wrong character. Sure, it's a crutch for the bad writing of the format, but removing it is the same as covering faces or scrambling voices.
I've been told I'm like Sheldon by two people. One of those people being an actual chemist with a PhD.
I don't think you could find an insult I'd be more offended by.
I've been told I'm like Sheldon by two people. One of those people being an actual chemist with a PhD.
I don't think you could find an insult I'd be more offended by.
Isnt chemistry one of the sciences Sheldon looks down on? Then again, he seems to disdain everything that isnt physics. Or more specifically HIS work in physics.
Yeah, I'll agree BBT has more of a gender problem than a geek-bashing problem. Though arguably not moreso than your average middling multicamera CBS sitcom.
The problem with this though is that pop culture sets the expectation. One of the reasons are awful gender roles and sexism has survived the decades is its reinforced by tv and movies.
True, though CBS sitcoms seem to have the gender role problem much worse than the other over-the-air networks. Just look at any given episode of Last Man Standing, or Two Broke Girls. The stuff on, say, NBC doesn't have that problem nearly as much.
Though even with the problems, BBT does deserve props for having two female characters who are intelligent, successful scientists. That kind of representation can be pretty inspiring, given the continued struggle to get women into the scientific field.
I've been told I'm like Sheldon by two people. One of those people being an actual chemist with a PhD.
I don't think you could find an insult I'd be more offended by.
Isnt chemistry one of the sciences Sheldon looks down on? Then again, he seems to disdain everything that isnt physics. Or more specifically HIS work in physics.
I think that actually reinforces your point. In real life, physicists often have this approach. Sheldon isn't portrayed as a socially adept, so for him to put something down may actually be more like, "See, this totally maladjusted dork doesn't has attitudes like this, therefore they're wrong." It may just be because they see it as friendly banter and not a serious put-down (at least to chemists). It's kind of an in-joke about physicists.
I don't think its problem is being degrading to nerds, more that it's degrading to women, gays, people of color, AND not funny.
but then I don't know if it's any worse than many mainstream TV sit-coms. I don't watch much of those these days.
compare this to something like "Love" on Netflix. the male lead has the "nerd" look and some of the stereotypical traits (though not many of them) but the show doesn't resort to base sexism and misogyny of BBT. and the characters in Love, both male and female, are FAR from perfect.
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CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
The thing that made me dislike BBT right from the start is that the nerd guy is chasing a girl with whom he has nothing in common. My understanding is that even after however many seasons the series has gone on, she's still just a beautiful trophy who has no involvement in who he is as a person. Forget the rest of it, the central tenant of the show is gross.
Also I love those two videos from Pop Culture Detective, they delve deeply into that aspect of the show and the creator has watched way more of the show than I could have the stomach to to make his point elegantly. I also enjoyed the video about Newt Scamander and Steven Universe on that channel. That perspective is one that I'm glad internet feminists are getting around to: how being anti-feminist fucks over men, too. Feels like it's the sort of information that could turn folks in the manosphere around.
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
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The_SpaniardIt's never lupinesIrvine, CaliforniaRegistered Userregular
CSI was known for having a freak of the week style sub group humiliation that was basically "look up a wikipedia on this group, write an ep". That's how BBT does nerds. More insultingly is a defense that is brought up is actual nerds work on the show, but that of course acts like Nerd is just an interchangeable group instead of a sub category of all kinds of people.
Ah yes, I remember the legendary 'furry' episode of CSI. I still cringe even today.
That episode hit the land speed record for number of, "What the fuck?!"s per minute.
CSI was known for having a freak of the week style sub group humiliation that was basically "look up a wikipedia on this group, write an ep". That's how BBT does nerds. More insultingly is a defense that is brought up is actual nerds work on the show, but that of course acts like Nerd is just an interchangeable group instead of a sub category of all kinds of people.
Ah yes, I remember the legendary 'furry' episode of CSI. I still cringe even today.
That episode hit the land speed record for number of, "What the fuck?!"s per minute.
Crime shows especially seems to delight in takign cartoonish extremes of subcultures and using them as topics for episodes, even though the killer usually isnt part of it. CSI isnt even the worst, it's Bones.
CSI was known for having a freak of the week style sub group humiliation that was basically "look up a wikipedia on this group, write an ep". That's how BBT does nerds. More insultingly is a defense that is brought up is actual nerds work on the show, but that of course acts like Nerd is just an interchangeable group instead of a sub category of all kinds of people.
Ah yes, I remember the legendary 'furry' episode of CSI. I still cringe even today.
That episode hit the land speed record for number of, "What the fuck?!"s per minute.
Crime shows especially seems to delight in takign cartoonish extremes of subcultures and using them as topics for episodes, even though the killer usually isnt part of it. CSI isnt even the worst, it's Bones.
Bones insults everyone on it, like just about every character on Bones is an insult to who they are portraying especially autistic or spectrum people.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
The thing that made me dislike BBT right from the start is that the nerd guy is chasing a girl with whom he has nothing in common. My understanding is that even after however many seasons the series has gone on, she's still just a beautiful trophy who has no involvement in who he is as a person. Forget the rest of it, the central tenant of the show is gross.
Also I love those two videos from Pop Culture Detective, they delve deeply into that aspect of the show and the creator has watched way more of the show than I could have the stomach to to make his point elegantly. I also enjoyed the video about Newt Scamander and Steven Universe on that channel. That perspective is one that I'm glad internet feminists are getting around to: how being anti-feminist fucks over men, too. Feels like it's the sort of information that could turn folks in the manosphere around.
Hegemonic masculinowhatzits?
Stop confusing me with your SJW talk.
The real kicker is that no matter how much we rail against The Big Bang Theory and it's ilk, it's a ratings bonanza. This is still what the wider culture thinks of us.
I remember some of the earlier episodes having some of the exact same conversations I had with friends when I was in middle school and high school. Like the Superman catch thing, jokes about Wolverine's proctologist, observations about movies, etc.
Maybe it was rose colored glasses, but I thought some of the earlier episodes were alright.
Which is why I loved the (somewhat) recent episode with the Star Trek convention. Not the guy's story (which was sad) but the girls. That angry debate over the inconsistent rules of Thor's Hammer and the Transitive property of picking up someone holding the hammer and all of that. That was another debate I had as a kid and I loved every minute of hearing them argue about it. Granted, my debate was well before the Red Hulk but the other parts of the debate were timeless.
Alas, that whole side-story was a one-off. After that it was back to the cliche sitcom trash.
Posts
It's not gonna end anytime soon, the show is ranked something like 8th highest in the Nielsen ratings, and considering that CBS entire business plan is to cling to a borderline archeological target demographic, they're not abandoning it anytime soon.
Honestly I found them super informative in general. And as someone who is going to be raising a boy in merica and probably in geeky pursuits, it really helped show me a side of toxic masculinity I hadn't really considered as hard as I should have.
pleasepaypreacher.net
The problem with this though is that pop culture sets the expectation. One of the reasons are awful gender roles and sexism has survived the decades is its reinforced by tv and movies.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Young Sheldon worries me because of the unfortunate assocation Sheldon has with people's idea of autism. And while an "autism adjacent" character like Drax the Destroyer treats his personality as endearing and relatable, Sheldon seems mostly to be played for laughs as a character you aren't supposed to "like", sort of a Dwight Schrute.
I have no problem putting up with, "I love BBT, it reminds me of you!" But I would hate for a parent of an autistic child to be told by a friend, "I've been watching Young Sheldon, and it really makes me understand more of what you're going through!"
In Family Matters, almost the same sequence of events unfolded with the laugh track gasping at the initial insult, going "awwwww..." as Steve's feelings were hurt, and shocked gasps when she hit him, but excited "ooooohs" as he hit on Laura.
BBT, the cheers are for Howard getting his feelings and eventually face hurt, with the laughs following him as long as his bruises persisted.
Exact same situation, except the laugh track established Urkel as the good guy and Laura as the bully, but Howard as the aggressor and Penny as the avatar of his comeuppance.
A lot of talk about -isms in sitcoms revolve around turning off the laugh track and exposing how weird or wrong or creepy the content is. But as cheap and tacky as laugh tracks are, they're not an unrelated add-on, they carry relevant information, because they never misread the writer's intentions or sympathize with the wrong character. Sure, it's a crutch for the bad writing of the format, but removing it is the same as covering faces or scrambling voices.
I don't think you could find an insult I'd be more offended by.
Isnt chemistry one of the sciences Sheldon looks down on? Then again, he seems to disdain everything that isnt physics. Or more specifically HIS work in physics.
True, though CBS sitcoms seem to have the gender role problem much worse than the other over-the-air networks. Just look at any given episode of Last Man Standing, or Two Broke Girls. The stuff on, say, NBC doesn't have that problem nearly as much.
Though even with the problems, BBT does deserve props for having two female characters who are intelligent, successful scientists. That kind of representation can be pretty inspiring, given the continued struggle to get women into the scientific field.
I think that actually reinforces your point. In real life, physicists often have this approach. Sheldon isn't portrayed as a socially adept, so for him to put something down may actually be more like, "See, this totally maladjusted dork doesn't has attitudes like this, therefore they're wrong." It may just be because they see it as friendly banter and not a serious put-down (at least to chemists). It's kind of an in-joke about physicists.
but then I don't know if it's any worse than many mainstream TV sit-coms. I don't watch much of those these days.
compare this to something like "Love" on Netflix. the male lead has the "nerd" look and some of the stereotypical traits (though not many of them) but the show doesn't resort to base sexism and misogyny of BBT. and the characters in Love, both male and female, are FAR from perfect.
Also I love those two videos from Pop Culture Detective, they delve deeply into that aspect of the show and the creator has watched way more of the show than I could have the stomach to to make his point elegantly. I also enjoyed the video about Newt Scamander and Steven Universe on that channel. That perspective is one that I'm glad internet feminists are getting around to: how being anti-feminist fucks over men, too. Feels like it's the sort of information that could turn folks in the manosphere around.
That episode hit the land speed record for number of, "What the fuck?!"s per minute.
Crime shows especially seems to delight in takign cartoonish extremes of subcultures and using them as topics for episodes, even though the killer usually isnt part of it. CSI isnt even the worst, it's Bones.
Bones insults everyone on it, like just about every character on Bones is an insult to who they are portraying especially autistic or spectrum people.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Hegemonic masculinowhatzits?
Stop confusing me with your SJW talk.
I remember some of the earlier episodes having some of the exact same conversations I had with friends when I was in middle school and high school. Like the Superman catch thing, jokes about Wolverine's proctologist, observations about movies, etc.
Maybe it was rose colored glasses, but I thought some of the earlier episodes were alright.
Which is why I loved the (somewhat) recent episode with the Star Trek convention. Not the guy's story (which was sad) but the girls. That angry debate over the inconsistent rules of Thor's Hammer and the Transitive property of picking up someone holding the hammer and all of that. That was another debate I had as a kid and I loved every minute of hearing them argue about it. Granted, my debate was well before the Red Hulk but the other parts of the debate were timeless.
Alas, that whole side-story was a one-off. After that it was back to the cliche sitcom trash.