So I follow a lot of indigenous folks on Twitter, and people keep calling this "the worst mass shooting in American history," and this has been sticking in the craw of many of those folks I follow. Because it erases indigenous massacres from history, or says they "don't count" as mass shootings, for no reason that carries water.
And I see these tweets, and I find part of myself going, "Jeez, y'all, it isn't a competition." But then other parts of myself say, "Well, they weren't the ones turning it into one by describing this horrible event with superlatives like 'worst.'"
So they're stuck in this position of like, "Do I stay silent about this, and let this narrative go on, and further (however slightly) the erasure of shit America did to my people? Or do I speak up, and look like I'm trying to diminish the severity of this attack?" They certainly aren't trying to do the latter - the issue is with the framing, not with the horror people are feeling, but good luck getting most folks to recognize the distinction.
Which ends up becoming a synecdoche for a lot of conversations about America v. indigenous people. Any attempt to remind people, "Hey, this happened" is interpreted as an attack, as a minimization of the present. When not remembering is a minimization of the past.
I don't have a concise concluding point, or anything. Just something that's been gnawing at me.
Fwiw, I saw this pointed out a while back and now I think about it every time someone refers to "the worst massacre". So it can help to bring it up.
0
Erin The RedThe Name's Erin! Woman, Podcaster, Dungeon Master, IT nerd, Parent, Trans. AMABaton Rouge, LARegistered Userregular
. Stick with me, kid. I've never been shot at once!
I, on the other hand, had a 12 year old come to the GameStop I worked at with the full intention of murdering me from across the counter for kicking him out the day previous. Police found a box of ammo and two pistols in his pockets. My life was saved by a sick child.
. Stick with me, kid. I've never been shot at once!
I, on the other hand, had a 12 year old come to the GameStop I worked at with the full intention of murdering me from across the counter for kicking him out the day previous. Police found a box of ammo and two pistols in his pockets. My life was saved by a sick child.
. Stick with me, kid. I've never been shot at once!
I, on the other hand, had a 12 year old come to the GameStop I worked at with the full intention of murdering me from across the counter for kicking him out the day previous. Police found a box of ammo and two pistols in his pockets. My life was saved by a sick child.
America in general does not do a great job of teaching people, youth in particular, about the value of human life and the consequences of violent response.
America in general does not do a great job of teaching people, youth in particular, about the value of human life and the consequences of violent response.
I don't know how you even begin to address that short of reorienting all fiction by force so that every typical heroic story ends with the hero being shot and dying and the bad guys winning.
I have seen people on Facebook bringing up that there were worse massacres of indigenous people as an argument for keeping their guns. Their reason to bring it up isn't out of respect for the past but to point those massacres were done by the government therefore we need to stay armed to make sure we can rise up against a corrupt government. Yay guns.
America in general does not do a great job of teaching people, youth in particular, about the value of human life and the consequences of violent response.
I don't know how you even begin to address that short of reorienting all fiction by force so that every typical heroic story ends with the hero being shot and dying and the bad guys winning.
or, you know. don't have guns in media for kids.
the news will be plenty to pass on the message that guns are largely associated with the deaths of good people
America in general does not do a great job of teaching people, youth in particular, about the value of human life and the consequences of violent response.
I don't know how you even begin to address that short of reorienting all fiction by force so that every typical heroic story ends with the hero being shot and dying and the bad guys winning.
or, you know. don't have guns in media for kids.
the news will be plenty to pass on the message that guns are largely associated with the deaths of good people
Honestly all the news isn't as loud as the rest of culture saying "Only bad people get shot and die".
Heroes get a graze in the shoulder and are fine! They barely flinch! Being shot isn't that bad!
there have been a lot of violent events with more deaths than this. riots, lynchings, etc
but this was one person. one! and he shot 600 people. that's what is so crazy
+8
Raijin QuickfootI'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPAregular
So after a lengthy Facebook argument with my brother (half-brother) we are no longer Facebook friends.
I don't want anything to do with him. He literally sickens me that he puts his gun ownership ahead of people's lives and tries to hide behind meaningless statistics.
0
Blake TDo you have enemies then?Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered Userregular
While I by and large agree that this is better, this has the potential side effect of making the present day seem like an island, like some unconnected land mass, instead of contiguous with what got us here. A bloody (and, in the big scheme of things? Pretty recent) past makes for a bloody present, in a lot of ways
But that's more of a, like, philosophical difference with the language, rather than a straight-up "This is an inaccurate statement" situation
Could you say it's the worst shooting by a single gunman? Due to the fact that so many people were injured? (I will be honest and I do not know if the Native American massacres were done by a single person or in groups)
So after a lengthy Facebook argument with my brother (half-brother) we are no longer Facebook friends.
I don't want anything to do with him. He literally sickens me that he puts his gun ownership ahead of people's lives and tries to hide behind meaningless statistics.
Steve if it makes you feel any better I thought you were very polite and made good concise points, while I kind of leant back and was sarcastic while I was making mine.
So after a lengthy Facebook argument with my brother (half-brother) we are no longer Facebook friends.
I don't want anything to do with him. He literally sickens me that he puts his gun ownership ahead of people's lives and tries to hide behind meaningless statistics.
I'm having the same Facebook conversation with my cousin. I just can't make him understand that no matter how many impassioned speeches about "freedom" he makes, he's making them atop a soapbox made out of murdered Americans.
I broke it off and said I was going to bed, which isn't actually a lie.
So after a lengthy Facebook argument with my brother (half-brother) we are no longer Facebook friends.
I don't want anything to do with him. He literally sickens me that he puts his gun ownership ahead of people's lives and tries to hide behind meaningless statistics.
Steve if it makes you feel any better I thought you were very polite and made good concise points, while I kind of leant back and was sarcastic while I was making mine.
I appreciate it. It's nothing new from him but I reached my breaking point with him.
For what it's worth Pooro, I'd appreciate the notes about how this is whitewashing past violence, as someone who doesn't know much about American indigenous history
I mean hell, while I know a fair amount on the Canadian side of things, I only learned about Wounded Knee because of Bioshock: Infinite and started looking into that part of American history from there; there is absolutely a knowledge gap on the international level at least
There's a big knowledge gap in the USA about history like that in general.
As far as changing gun violence, I think our culture has a narrative of capacity for violence equals power. And as each generation learns anew what our culture is, this message gets passed down and recreated. Changing that narrative would help change gun violence of all types here.
That change might not be absolutely essential. Moderate gun control polls at something like 60-70% approval. Fixing the mechanics of making laws and governing to be more democratic might be enough to let laws change. But changing that cultural piece wouldn't hurt, either.
Label on
+1
Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
I'm sitting on the porch with my dogs. A police helicopter is circling overhead shined its spotlight directly on me and my first thought wasn't "oh shit I should go inside" it was "what the fuck y'all on about now? Go to bed"
I find it sad the two cops that were harassing me only stopped because I got them banned from Walmart for harassing me while on the clock
They can never come into a Walmart ever again
Jesus Christ people are saying he was into Isis because he sent 100,000 to the Philippines. This will become the narrative
I... Isn't the Philippines basically super Catholic?
People who want to jump to ISIS are not the people who know a goddamn thing about the world
Not that they are correct in making the connection with zero information, but Abu Sayyaf and other Islamist fighters in the Philippines involved with the siege of Marawi have allegedly sworn bay'ah to the Islamic State. Which is straight out of the Al Qaeda play book (coopting already existing groups to spread regional influence).
So wait we're goung to go with both lone wolf, with confirmations that there is a lack of connection to international terrorism for the initial reporting, because white, but still go with attempting to blame the brown people for this in the end?
I find it sad the two cops that were harassing me only stopped because I got them banned from Walmart for harassing me while on the clock
They can never come into a Walmart ever again
why in the world were you being harassed by cops in wal-mart???
+1
BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
A few more mass shootings in red territory will shift this.
Hey. This is kind of fucked up.
I live in Ohio. A state that regularly goes red though my county is usually blue.
There are plenty of people that lean more to the left out here and the stereotype of everyone living in flyover states that go red in elections being backwards hicks who live guns more than Healthcare or whatever is bullshit.
Even then, as far left as I personally am, I don't wish violence on the people near to me geographically who vote against their own and to a further extent The Other's self interest. It isn't their fault they are casting their balot stupidly, the system is designed to keep them doing that.
There are important shifts in culture that need to happen out here. I am of the opinion that a groundwork needs to be laid here in the red territory to pitch leftist policy to the some of the traditionally more entrenched republican voter bases. Instead of just dreaming of a future where accessible college education solves the problems in some undefined amount of time as liberal politicians seem to think.
A few more mass shootings in red territory will shift this.
Hey. This is kind of fucked up.
I live in Ohio. A state that regularly goes red though my county is usually blue.
There are plenty of people that lean more to the left out here and the stereotype of everyone living in flyover states that go red in elections being backwards hicks who live guns more than Healthcare or whatever is bullshit.
Even then, as far left as I personally am, I don't wish violence on the people near to me geographically who vote against their own and to a further extent The Other's self interest. It isn't their fault they are casting their balot stupidly, the system is designed to keep them doing that.
There are important shifts in culture that need to happen out here. I am of the opinion that a groundwork needs to be laid here in the red territory to pitch leftist policy to the some of the traditionally more entrenched republican voter bases. Instead of just dreaming of a future where accessible college education solves the problems in some undefined amount of time as liberal politicians seem to think.
It 100% is fucked up. I'm not trying to advocate it whatsoever. But the attitude shift that was reported over and over by the guy in the band is very telling.
A few more mass shootings in red territory will shift this.
If more than a single school shooting hasn't, nothing will.
They're willing to let kids die to save their guns.
The kids who died were in CT, which is liberal, which means it was a lie. I work with people who tell me that the entire Sandy Hook incident was fabricated by the government with actors.
It is a lot harder to deny reality when it happens in your backyard.
+4
Mx. QuillI now prefer "Myr. Quill", actually...{They/Them}Registered Userregular
A few more mass shootings in red territory will shift this.
Hey. This is kind of fucked up.
I live in Ohio. A state that regularly goes red though my county is usually blue.
There are plenty of people that lean more to the left out here and the stereotype of everyone living in flyover states that go red in elections being backwards hicks who live guns more than Healthcare or whatever is bullshit.
Even then, as far left as I personally am, I don't wish violence on the people near to me geographically who vote against their own and to a further extent The Other's self interest. It isn't their fault they are casting their balot stupidly, the system is designed to keep them doing that.
There are important shifts in culture that need to happen out here. I am of the opinion that a groundwork needs to be laid here in the red territory to pitch leftist policy to the some of the traditionally more entrenched republican voter bases. Instead of just dreaming of a future where accessible college education solves the problems in some undefined amount of time as liberal politicians seem to think.
It 100% is fucked up. I'm not trying to advocate it whatsoever. But the attitude shift that was reported over and over by the guy in the band is very telling.
A few more mass shootings in red territory will shift this.
If more than a single school shooting hasn't, nothing will.
They're willing to let kids die to save their guns.
The kids who died were in CT, which is liberal, which means it was a lie. I work with people who tell me that the entire Sandy Hook incident was fabricated by the government with actors.
It is a lot harder to deny reality when it happens in your backyard.
My friend Mark and now-friend Greg were students at William and Mary when the Virginia Tech shooting happened. And Mark, myself, and our other friend Tynan lived in Long Island when 9/11 happened.
We've quickly grown tired of people spouting conspiracy theories about events that took place nowhere near them. Cause even being about an hour away from disasters is fucking terrifying.
I would be absolutely fine if federal law was changed to allow any person who's set foot on the moon to punch anybody who denied it in the face, scott free.
Same with relatives of the victims of the Sandy Hook massacre.
+12
BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
Posts
Fwiw, I saw this pointed out a while back and now I think about it every time someone refers to "the worst massacre". So it can help to bring it up.
I, on the other hand, had a 12 year old come to the GameStop I worked at with the full intention of murdering me from across the counter for kicking him out the day previous. Police found a box of ammo and two pistols in his pockets. My life was saved by a sick child.
So.. America!
Jeezy creezy, that's something else
What the fuck
I don't know how you even begin to address that short of reorienting all fiction by force so that every typical heroic story ends with the hero being shot and dying and the bad guys winning.
or, you know. don't have guns in media for kids.
the news will be plenty to pass on the message that guns are largely associated with the deaths of good people
Honestly all the news isn't as loud as the rest of culture saying "Only bad people get shot and die".
Heroes get a graze in the shoulder and are fine! They barely flinch! Being shot isn't that bad!
but this was one person. one! and he shot 600 people. that's what is so crazy
I don't want anything to do with him. He literally sickens me that he puts his gun ownership ahead of people's lives and tries to hide behind meaningless statistics.
Could you say it's the worst shooting by a single gunman? Due to the fact that so many people were injured? (I will be honest and I do not know if the Native American massacres were done by a single person or in groups)
Satans..... hints.....
Steve if it makes you feel any better I thought you were very polite and made good concise points, while I kind of leant back and was sarcastic while I was making mine.
Satans..... hints.....
I'm having the same Facebook conversation with my cousin. I just can't make him understand that no matter how many impassioned speeches about "freedom" he makes, he's making them atop a soapbox made out of murdered Americans.
I broke it off and said I was going to bed, which isn't actually a lie.
Steam ID XBL: JohnnyChopsocky PSN:Stud_Beefpile WiiU:JohnnyChopsocky
I appreciate it. It's nothing new from him but I reached my breaking point with him.
I mean hell, while I know a fair amount on the Canadian side of things, I only learned about Wounded Knee because of Bioshock: Infinite and started looking into that part of American history from there; there is absolutely a knowledge gap on the international level at least
3DS Friend Code: 0216-0898-6512
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As far as changing gun violence, I think our culture has a narrative of capacity for violence equals power. And as each generation learns anew what our culture is, this message gets passed down and recreated. Changing that narrative would help change gun violence of all types here.
That change might not be absolutely essential. Moderate gun control polls at something like 60-70% approval. Fixing the mechanics of making laws and governing to be more democratic might be enough to let laws change. But changing that cultural piece wouldn't hurt, either.
They can never come into a Walmart ever again
It was, along with our history of slavery, held up as an example of what not to do.
I... Isn't the Philippines basically super Catholic?
People who want to jump to ISIS are not the people who know a goddamn thing about the world
Yeah we didn't get any of that in my history classes
It's also home to Abu Sayyaf.
Not that they are correct in making the connection with zero information, but Abu Sayyaf and other Islamist fighters in the Philippines involved with the siege of Marawi have allegedly sworn bay'ah to the Islamic State. Which is straight out of the Al Qaeda play book (coopting already existing groups to spread regional influence).
Awesome, just fuckin awesome.
Fuck the media
why in the world were you being harassed by cops in wal-mart???
A few more mass shootings in red territory will shift this.
If more than a single school shooting hasn't, nothing will.
They're willing to let kids die to save their guns.
They're convinced that the issue is radical Islamics, people with mental issues, or violent minorities.
Hey. This is kind of fucked up.
I live in Ohio. A state that regularly goes red though my county is usually blue.
There are plenty of people that lean more to the left out here and the stereotype of everyone living in flyover states that go red in elections being backwards hicks who live guns more than Healthcare or whatever is bullshit.
Even then, as far left as I personally am, I don't wish violence on the people near to me geographically who vote against their own and to a further extent The Other's self interest. It isn't their fault they are casting their balot stupidly, the system is designed to keep them doing that.
There are important shifts in culture that need to happen out here. I am of the opinion that a groundwork needs to be laid here in the red territory to pitch leftist policy to the some of the traditionally more entrenched republican voter bases. Instead of just dreaming of a future where accessible college education solves the problems in some undefined amount of time as liberal politicians seem to think.
It 100% is fucked up. I'm not trying to advocate it whatsoever. But the attitude shift that was reported over and over by the guy in the band is very telling.
The kids who died were in CT, which is liberal, which means it was a lie. I work with people who tell me that the entire Sandy Hook incident was fabricated by the government with actors.
It is a lot harder to deny reality when it happens in your backyard.
My friend Mark and now-friend Greg were students at William and Mary when the Virginia Tech shooting happened. And Mark, myself, and our other friend Tynan lived in Long Island when 9/11 happened.
We've quickly grown tired of people spouting conspiracy theories about events that took place nowhere near them. Cause even being about an hour away from disasters is fucking terrifying.
It's a little funny to think about Buzz Aldrin punching a guy who thinks the moon landing was fake.
It's devastating to hear someone tell a Sandy Hook parent that the event never even happened.
Same with relatives of the victims of the Sandy Hook massacre.
on that note
alex jones continues to be an sack of angry shit
https://www.avclub.com/alex-jones-is-back-on-his-bullshit-says-the-las-vegas-1819086361