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Las Vegas Shooting (Sunday night Oct. 1)

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Posts

  • OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel floof Registered User regular
    So I follow a lot of indigenous folks on Twitter, and people keep calling this "the worst mass shooting in American history," and this has been sticking in the craw of many of those folks I follow. Because it erases indigenous massacres from history, or says they "don't count" as mass shootings, for no reason that carries water.

    And I see these tweets, and I find part of myself going, "Jeez, y'all, it isn't a competition." But then other parts of myself say, "Well, they weren't the ones turning it into one by describing this horrible event with superlatives like 'worst.'"

    So they're stuck in this position of like, "Do I stay silent about this, and let this narrative go on, and further (however slightly) the erasure of shit America did to my people? Or do I speak up, and look like I'm trying to diminish the severity of this attack?" They certainly aren't trying to do the latter - the issue is with the framing, not with the horror people are feeling, but good luck getting most folks to recognize the distinction.

    Which ends up becoming a synecdoche for a lot of conversations about America v. indigenous people. Any attempt to remind people, "Hey, this happened" is interpreted as an attack, as a minimization of the present. When not remembering is a minimization of the past.

    I don't have a concise concluding point, or anything. Just something that's been gnawing at me.

    Fwiw, I saw this pointed out a while back and now I think about it every time someone refers to "the worst massacre". So it can help to bring it up.

    cdci44qazyo3.gif

  • Erin The RedErin The Red The Name's Erin! Woman, Podcaster, Dungeon Master, IT nerd, Parent, Trans. AMA Baton Rouge, LARegistered User regular
    tynic wrote: »
    . Stick with me, kid. I've never been shot at once!

    I, on the other hand, had a 12 year old come to the GameStop I worked at with the full intention of murdering me from across the counter for kicking him out the day previous. Police found a box of ammo and two pistols in his pockets. My life was saved by a sick child.

    So.. America!

    tynic
  • Mortal SkyMortal Sky queer punk hedge witchRegistered User regular
    tynic wrote: »
    . Stick with me, kid. I've never been shot at once!

    I, on the other hand, had a 12 year old come to the GameStop I worked at with the full intention of murdering me from across the counter for kicking him out the day previous. Police found a box of ammo and two pistols in his pockets. My life was saved by a sick child.

    So.. America!

    Jeezy creezy, that's something else

    tynicKadithJohnny ChopsockySolarPeewiLiiyaErin The RedmasterofmetroidNightDragonCentipede DamascusZonugalCelloSorcejgeisCrippl3LabelSkeithsarukunDevlin_DragonusFencingsaxEmerlmaster999Zilla360KetarAngelinachrishallett83Al_watHermanoSnicketysnickMagic PinkhonovereFuselageSassoriRainfallRhesus PositiveHeadCreepspookaJacques L'HommeRomanian My EscutcheonDarth WaiterEtiowsaNeoTomaOlivaw
  • PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Realtor Santa ClaritaRegistered User regular
    tynic wrote: »
    . Stick with me, kid. I've never been shot at once!

    I, on the other hand, had a 12 year old come to the GameStop I worked at with the full intention of murdering me from across the counter for kicking him out the day previous. Police found a box of ammo and two pistols in his pockets. My life was saved by a sick child.

    So.. America!

    What the fuck

    ShortyLegacyJohnny ChopsockyMr Fuzzbuttph blakeErin The RedlonelyahavaNightDragonCentipede DamascusZonugalStiltsCelloSorceDouglasDangerTofystedethjgeisCrippl3LabelSkeithMulletudeEmerlmaster999DrezZilla360Angelinachrishallett83SnicketysnickMegaMekMagic PinkFencingsaxRainfallMatevJacques L'HommeRomanian My EscutcheonDarth WaiterFawstOlivaw
  • Fig-DFig-D Registered User regular
    America in general does not do a great job of teaching people, youth in particular, about the value of human life and the consequences of violent response.

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  • SimBenSimBen Registered User regular
    Fig-D wrote: »
    America in general does not do a great job of teaching people, youth in particular, about the value of human life and the consequences of violent response.

    I don't know how you even begin to address that short of reorienting all fiction by force so that every typical heroic story ends with the hero being shot and dying and the bad guys winning.

    sig.gif
  • Lindsay LohanLindsay Lohan Registered User regular
    I have seen people on Facebook bringing up that there were worse massacres of indigenous people as an argument for keeping their guns. Their reason to bring it up isn't out of respect for the past but to point those massacres were done by the government therefore we need to stay armed to make sure we can rise up against a corrupt government. Yay guns.

  • bsjezzbsjezz Registered User regular
    edited October 2017
    SimBen wrote: »
    Fig-D wrote: »
    America in general does not do a great job of teaching people, youth in particular, about the value of human life and the consequences of violent response.

    I don't know how you even begin to address that short of reorienting all fiction by force so that every typical heroic story ends with the hero being shot and dying and the bad guys winning.

    or, you know. don't have guns in media for kids.

    the news will be plenty to pass on the message that guns are largely associated with the deaths of good people

    bsjezz on
    sC4Q4nq.jpg
    SimBen
  • SimBenSimBen Registered User regular
    bsjezz wrote: »
    SimBen wrote: »
    Fig-D wrote: »
    America in general does not do a great job of teaching people, youth in particular, about the value of human life and the consequences of violent response.

    I don't know how you even begin to address that short of reorienting all fiction by force so that every typical heroic story ends with the hero being shot and dying and the bad guys winning.

    or, you know. don't have guns in media for kids.

    the news will be plenty to pass on the message that guns are largely associated with the deaths of good people

    Honestly all the news isn't as loud as the rest of culture saying "Only bad people get shot and die".

    Heroes get a graze in the shoulder and are fine! They barely flinch! Being shot isn't that bad!

    sig.gif
    tynicLabelchrishallett83
  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    there have been a lot of violent events with more deaths than this. riots, lynchings, etc

    but this was one person. one! and he shot 600 people. that's what is so crazy

    Crippl3LegacyFencingsaxchrishallett83Al_watMegaMekAistanOlivaw
  • Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    So after a lengthy Facebook argument with my brother (half-brother) we are no longer Facebook friends.

    I don't want anything to do with him. He literally sickens me that he puts his gun ownership ahead of people's lives and tries to hide behind meaningless statistics.

    HEY SATAN! HERE'S MY WISHLIST! GO NUTS YOU DEVIL!

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/registry/wishlist/1JI9WWSRW1YJI
  • Blake TBlake T Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    "The worst mass shooting in modern times"

    While I by and large agree that this is better, this has the potential side effect of making the present day seem like an island, like some unconnected land mass, instead of contiguous with what got us here. A bloody (and, in the big scheme of things? Pretty recent) past makes for a bloody present, in a lot of ways

    But that's more of a, like, philosophical difference with the language, rather than a straight-up "This is an inaccurate statement" situation

    Could you say it's the worst shooting by a single gunman? Due to the fact that so many people were injured? (I will be honest and I do not know if the Native American massacres were done by a single person or in groups)

  • Blake TBlake T Registered User regular
    So after a lengthy Facebook argument with my brother (half-brother) we are no longer Facebook friends.

    I don't want anything to do with him. He literally sickens me that he puts his gun ownership ahead of people's lives and tries to hide behind meaningless statistics.

    Steve if it makes you feel any better I thought you were very polite and made good concise points, while I kind of leant back and was sarcastic while I was making mine.

    chrishallett83lonelyahavaLiiya
  • Johnny ChopsockyJohnny Chopsocky Scootaloo! We have to cook! Grillin' HaysenburgersRegistered User regular
    edited October 2017
    So after a lengthy Facebook argument with my brother (half-brother) we are no longer Facebook friends.

    I don't want anything to do with him. He literally sickens me that he puts his gun ownership ahead of people's lives and tries to hide behind meaningless statistics.

    I'm having the same Facebook conversation with my cousin. I just can't make him understand that no matter how many impassioned speeches about "freedom" he makes, he's making them atop a soapbox made out of murdered Americans.

    I broke it off and said I was going to bed, which isn't actually a lie.

    Johnny Chopsocky on
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  • Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    tynic wrote: »
    Brolo wrote: »
    KrMDZMv.jpg

    Is this a sex thing?

    wNCvtVd.jpg

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  • Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Blake T wrote: »
    So after a lengthy Facebook argument with my brother (half-brother) we are no longer Facebook friends.

    I don't want anything to do with him. He literally sickens me that he puts his gun ownership ahead of people's lives and tries to hide behind meaningless statistics.

    Steve if it makes you feel any better I thought you were very polite and made good concise points, while I kind of leant back and was sarcastic while I was making mine.

    I appreciate it. It's nothing new from him but I reached my breaking point with him.

    HEY SATAN! HERE'S MY WISHLIST! GO NUTS YOU DEVIL!

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/registry/wishlist/1JI9WWSRW1YJI
  • CelloCello Registered User regular
    For what it's worth Pooro, I'd appreciate the notes about how this is whitewashing past violence, as someone who doesn't know much about American indigenous history

    I mean hell, while I know a fair amount on the Canadian side of things, I only learned about Wounded Knee because of Bioshock: Infinite and started looking into that part of American history from there; there is absolutely a knowledge gap on the international level at least

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  • LabelLabel Registered User regular
    edited October 2017
    There's a big knowledge gap in the USA about history like that in general.


    As far as changing gun violence, I think our culture has a narrative of capacity for violence equals power. And as each generation learns anew what our culture is, this message gets passed down and recreated. Changing that narrative would help change gun violence of all types here.

    That change might not be absolutely essential. Moderate gun control polls at something like 60-70% approval. Fixing the mechanics of making laws and governing to be more democratic might be enough to let laws change. But changing that cultural piece wouldn't hurt, either.

    Label on
    Fencingsax
  • Garlic BreadGarlic Bread Registered User regular
    I'm sitting on the porch with my dogs. A police helicopter is circling overhead shined its spotlight directly on me and my first thought wasn't "oh shit I should go inside" it was "what the fuck y'all on about now? Go to bed"

    NeoToma
  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    I find it sad the two cops that were harassing me only stopped because I got them banned from Walmart for harassing me while on the clock
    They can never come into a Walmart ever again

  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    Jesus Christ people are saying he was into Isis because he sent 100,000 to the Philippines. This will become the narrative

  • LiiyaLiiya Registered User regular
    In the UK in school we learned about Wounded Knee and the expansion into the American West and how it impacted on the native American population etc.

    It was, along with our history of slavery, held up as an example of what not to do.

  • chrishallett83chrishallett83 Hi! Registered User regular
    Prohass wrote: »
    Jesus Christ people are saying he was into Isis because he sent 100,000 to the Philippines. This will become the narrative

    I... Isn't the Philippines basically super Catholic?

  • I needed a gnome to post.I needed a gnome to post. like fire Registered User regular
    Prohass wrote: »
    Jesus Christ people are saying he was into Isis because he sent 100,000 to the Philippines. This will become the narrative

    I... Isn't the Philippines basically super Catholic?

    People who want to jump to ISIS are not the people who know a goddamn thing about the world

    kcGLHQJ.png
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  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    Liiya wrote: »
    In the UK in school we learned about Wounded Knee and the expansion into the American West and how it impacted on the native American population etc.

    It was, along with our history of slavery, held up as an example of what not to do.

    Yeah we didn't get any of that in my history classes

    Emerlmaster999RMS OceanicNightDragonLabel
  • NSDFRandNSDFRand FloridaRegistered User regular
    edited October 2017
    Prohass wrote: »
    Jesus Christ people are saying he was into Isis because he sent 100,000 to the Philippines. This will become the narrative

    I... Isn't the Philippines basically super Catholic?

    It's also home to Abu Sayyaf.
    Prohass wrote: »
    Jesus Christ people are saying he was into Isis because he sent 100,000 to the Philippines. This will become the narrative

    I... Isn't the Philippines basically super Catholic?

    People who want to jump to ISIS are not the people who know a goddamn thing about the world

    Not that they are correct in making the connection with zero information, but Abu Sayyaf and other Islamist fighters in the Philippines involved with the siege of Marawi have allegedly sworn bay'ah to the Islamic State. Which is straight out of the Al Qaeda play book (coopting already existing groups to spread regional influence).

    NSDFRand on
    The 2nd Amendment is unarguably one of the most liberal, liberating and radical statements ever made in human history.
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  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    So wait we're goung to go with both lone wolf, with confirmations that there is a lack of connection to international terrorism for the initial reporting, because white, but still go with attempting to blame the brown people for this in the end?

    Awesome, just fuckin awesome.

    Fuck the media

    Matev
  • Magic PinkMagic Pink Tur-Boner-Fed Registered User regular
    Brainleech wrote: »
    I find it sad the two cops that were harassing me only stopped because I got them banned from Walmart for harassing me while on the clock
    They can never come into a Walmart ever again

    why in the world were you being harassed by cops in wal-mart???

    Erin The Red
  • BroloBrolo Broseidon Lord of the BroceanRegistered User regular
  • EinzelEinzel Registered User regular
    Brolo wrote: »

    A few more mass shootings in red territory will shift this.

  • Emerlmaster999Emerlmaster999 Registered User regular
    Einzel wrote: »
    Brolo wrote: »

    A few more mass shootings in red territory will shift this.

    If more than a single school shooting hasn't, nothing will.

    They're willing to let kids die to save their guns.

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  • Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    The issue is these people 100% believe that guns aren't the problem so it doesn't matter who dies.

    They're convinced that the issue is radical Islamics, people with mental issues, or violent minorities.

    HEY SATAN! HERE'S MY WISHLIST! GO NUTS YOU DEVIL!

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  • UrielUriel Registered User regular
    Einzel wrote: »
    Brolo wrote: »

    A few more mass shootings in red territory will shift this.

    Hey. This is kind of fucked up.

    I live in Ohio. A state that regularly goes red though my county is usually blue.

    There are plenty of people that lean more to the left out here and the stereotype of everyone living in flyover states that go red in elections being backwards hicks who live guns more than Healthcare or whatever is bullshit.

    Even then, as far left as I personally am, I don't wish violence on the people near to me geographically who vote against their own and to a further extent The Other's self interest. It isn't their fault they are casting their balot stupidly, the system is designed to keep them doing that.

    There are important shifts in culture that need to happen out here. I am of the opinion that a groundwork needs to be laid here in the red territory to pitch leftist policy to the some of the traditionally more entrenched republican voter bases. Instead of just dreaming of a future where accessible college education solves the problems in some undefined amount of time as liberal politicians seem to think.

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  • EinzelEinzel Registered User regular
    Uriel wrote: »
    Einzel wrote: »
    Brolo wrote: »

    A few more mass shootings in red territory will shift this.

    Hey. This is kind of fucked up.

    I live in Ohio. A state that regularly goes red though my county is usually blue.

    There are plenty of people that lean more to the left out here and the stereotype of everyone living in flyover states that go red in elections being backwards hicks who live guns more than Healthcare or whatever is bullshit.

    Even then, as far left as I personally am, I don't wish violence on the people near to me geographically who vote against their own and to a further extent The Other's self interest. It isn't their fault they are casting their balot stupidly, the system is designed to keep them doing that.

    There are important shifts in culture that need to happen out here. I am of the opinion that a groundwork needs to be laid here in the red territory to pitch leftist policy to the some of the traditionally more entrenched republican voter bases. Instead of just dreaming of a future where accessible college education solves the problems in some undefined amount of time as liberal politicians seem to think.

    It 100% is fucked up. I'm not trying to advocate it whatsoever. But the attitude shift that was reported over and over by the guy in the band is very telling.
    Einzel wrote: »
    Brolo wrote: »

    A few more mass shootings in red territory will shift this.

    If more than a single school shooting hasn't, nothing will.

    They're willing to let kids die to save their guns.

    The kids who died were in CT, which is liberal, which means it was a lie. I work with people who tell me that the entire Sandy Hook incident was fabricated by the government with actors.

    It is a lot harder to deny reality when it happens in your backyard.

    Magic PinkEmerlmaster999SleepNightDragon
  • Emerlmaster999Emerlmaster999 Registered User regular
    edited October 2017
    Einzel wrote: »
    Uriel wrote: »
    Einzel wrote: »
    Brolo wrote: »

    A few more mass shootings in red territory will shift this.

    Hey. This is kind of fucked up.

    I live in Ohio. A state that regularly goes red though my county is usually blue.

    There are plenty of people that lean more to the left out here and the stereotype of everyone living in flyover states that go red in elections being backwards hicks who live guns more than Healthcare or whatever is bullshit.

    Even then, as far left as I personally am, I don't wish violence on the people near to me geographically who vote against their own and to a further extent The Other's self interest. It isn't their fault they are casting their balot stupidly, the system is designed to keep them doing that.

    There are important shifts in culture that need to happen out here. I am of the opinion that a groundwork needs to be laid here in the red territory to pitch leftist policy to the some of the traditionally more entrenched republican voter bases. Instead of just dreaming of a future where accessible college education solves the problems in some undefined amount of time as liberal politicians seem to think.

    It 100% is fucked up. I'm not trying to advocate it whatsoever. But the attitude shift that was reported over and over by the guy in the band is very telling.
    Einzel wrote: »
    Brolo wrote: »

    A few more mass shootings in red territory will shift this.

    If more than a single school shooting hasn't, nothing will.

    They're willing to let kids die to save their guns.

    The kids who died were in CT, which is liberal, which means it was a lie. I work with people who tell me that the entire Sandy Hook incident was fabricated by the government with actors.

    It is a lot harder to deny reality when it happens in your backyard.

    My friend Mark and now-friend Greg were students at William and Mary when the Virginia Tech shooting happened. And Mark, myself, and our other friend Tynan lived in Long Island when 9/11 happened.

    We've quickly grown tired of people spouting conspiracy theories about events that took place nowhere near them. Cause even being about an hour away from disasters is fucking terrifying.

    Emerlmaster999 on
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  • SassoriSassori Registered User regular
    It's difficult when you know friends and family are in danger and it drives me absolutely crazy when people want to play conspiracy theorist.

    It's a little funny to think about Buzz Aldrin punching a guy who thinks the moon landing was fake.

    It's devastating to hear someone tell a Sandy Hook parent that the event never even happened.

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  • GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    I would be absolutely fine if federal law was changed to allow any person who's set foot on the moon to punch anybody who denied it in the face, scott free.

    Same with relatives of the victims of the Sandy Hook massacre.

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  • BroloBrolo Broseidon Lord of the BroceanRegistered User regular

    Sassori wrote: »
    It's difficult when you know friends and family are in danger and it drives me absolutely crazy when people want to play conspiracy theorist.

    It's a little funny to think about Buzz Aldrin punching a guy who thinks the moon landing was fake.

    It's devastating to hear someone tell a Sandy Hook parent that the event never even happened.

    on that note

    CQ1CXMSl.jpg

    alex jones continues to be an sack of angry shit

    https://www.avclub.com/alex-jones-is-back-on-his-bullshit-says-the-las-vegas-1819086361

  • chrishallett83chrishallett83 Hi! Registered User regular
    Alex Jones needs to be committed. He's a danger to himself and others.

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  • Magic PinkMagic Pink Tur-Boner-Fed Registered User regular
    I propose that we don't talk about Alex Jones anymore since A: That's what he wants and B: his dipshit fucker rating is off the scale

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