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Las Vegas Shooting (Sunday night Oct. 1)

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Posts

  • bsjezzbsjezz Registered User regular
    edited October 2017
    Blake T wrote: »
    I don't think it is that simple, you can point at the US's neighbours next door in Canada, gun ownership levels are at similar levels and they still don't have the same problem.

    if by "similar levels" you mean "more than a quarter as many per capita but less than a third," then sure, they're "similar"

    to me, it's less a matter of "there are lots of guns around" and more "there's a critical mass of guns around." 112 times 323,000,000 is a much bigger number than 30 x 36,000,000. the concentration of these guns also changes things. the majority of canadian guns are owned in the northern provinces and territories, by less than 2,000,000 licensed owners. in america, it's estimated you might find a gun in 40% of all households.

    bsjezz on
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  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    Sorce wrote: »
    So after googling, I know what a bump stock is and why the LV shooter used one. How were these things legal?

    Because gun makers found a loophole in the existing laws and a proposition to close that loophole was killed in 2012 or so, because of course it was. Las Vegas was apparently a great showcase for them, because now the stocks sell like hot cakes.

    SleepTommy2HandsFencingsaxBucketmanCimmerii
  • EinzelEinzel Registered User regular
    The correct answer, as usual, is dollar signs.

    chrishallett83
  • Metzger MeisterMetzger Meister Registered User regular
    honovere wrote: »
    Sorce wrote: »
    So after googling, I know what a bump stock is and why the LV shooter used one. How were these things legal?

    Because gun makers found a loophole in the existing laws and a proposition to close that loophole was killed in 2012 or so, because of course it was. Las Vegas was apparently a great showcase for them, because now the stocks sell like hot cakes.

    That's one of the reasons I quit my job at the firearms accessories factory. The shooting at Pulse happened and my manager was basically doing backflips he was so excited about our new sales numbers.

  • the cheatthe cheat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    honovere wrote: »
    Sorce wrote: »
    So after googling, I know what a bump stock is and why the LV shooter used one. How were these things legal?

    Because gun makers found a loophole in the existing laws and a proposition to close that loophole was killed in 2012 or so, because of course it was. Las Vegas was apparently a great showcase for them, because now the stocks sell like hot cakes.

    That's one of the reasons I quit my job at the firearms accessories factory. The shooting at Pulse happened and my manager was basically doing backflips he was so excited about our new sales numbers.

    so proud of you for this, man.

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  • ShortyShorty JUDGE BROSEF Registered User regular
    honovere wrote: »
    Sorce wrote: »
    So after googling, I know what a bump stock is and why the LV shooter used one. How were these things legal?

    Because gun makers found a loophole in the existing laws and a proposition to close that loophole was killed in 2012 or so, because of course it was. Las Vegas was apparently a great showcase for them, because now the stocks sell like hot cakes.

    That's one of the reasons I quit my job at the firearms accessories factory. The shooting at Pulse happened and my manager was basically doing backflips he was so excited about our new sales numbers.

    that's a really hard thing to do and I'm really impressed

    do you have something else lined up?

    Tube wrote: »
    I was legit hoping that Shorty was somehow mistaken and the world wasn't that fucked
  • Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Pretty much every gun he used should be illegal, not just the bump stocks.

    I'm fine with people owning guns if there is a purpose. Hunting rifles are fine. I'll even allow pistols for self defense if you feel inclined.

    Semi-auto Ar15's and shit are made for one thing, killing a lot of people quickly. There's no reason for any civilian to ever own one. If you want the "fun" of shooting one then you can go to a range and rent the gun or something like that.

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  • PsykomaPsykoma Registered User regular
    edited October 2017
    Blake T wrote: »
    SimBen wrote: »
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    I also wonder when people talk about "mental health" in relation to gun violence if perhaps they should instead focus on toxic perspectives.

    As a man who often feels socially isolated myself, it's easy to get caught up in your own thoughts and develop unhealthy beliefs and perspectives from solo mental rumination. You judge yourself by what you believe is normal and have little opportunity to have those erroneous beliefs challenged. It can be helpful to hear more positive perspectives from others to give you healthier ways to look at the world and at your life.
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    In the USA 98% of mass shootings are perpetrated by men, and 90% of all gun homicides are perpetrated by men.
    And 60% of all mass shootings are perpetrated by white men, so banning white men from owning any firearms should cause mass shootings and homicides across the country to plummet, it's just a matter of relieving them of ownership of their current arsenal.

    Why not just make gun ownership only legal for women? Just say men are too prone to violence to be trusted with firearms.

    To take this in a more productive direction, why are men so much more likely than women to commit gun violence? Why are they so angry?

    Our culture tends to tell men that they are owed success and happiness and also that if they can they have the right to take "what they are owed" from others.

    Is it really that men are taught they are "owed" happiness and success, or are they taught toxic beliefs that make them more likely to feel unhappy and unsuccessful?

    For example, I'm single and just turned 29, so it didn't help my self-esteem when my father said recently that anyone who is unmarried after 25 probably has something wrong with them.

    Well it's both isn't it? Our culture creates a sense of entitlement and white men and then shames them for needing a motional support when they can't get with their expected to have.

    Australia is the exact same w/r/t toxic masculinity and entitlement culture, and yet don't have regular gun massacres.

    Because there's no guns.

    I'm sure there are plenty of angry white male Australians who blame all their problems on minorities and women but they don't shoot 50 people because they'd look silly pointing finger guns at 50 people.

    I don't think it is that simple, you can point at the US's neighbours next door in Canada, gun ownership levels are at similar levels and they still don't have the same problem.

    The big problem is the idea in America is that you need a gun for protection against other people. There are very few other places in the world where people think guns are an OK thing to use against other people. People might own guns for sport or for hunting in other countries, but there isn't the culture that it is OK to shoot other people.

    From everything I can find we have about a third the guns per capita than the USA.

    Also, this was a testimonial of how to obtain gun licenses in Canada, and some casual googling seems to support what they're saying:
    I'm a Canadian with a gun license and I would like to correct you on our process. To get my PAL (Possession and Acquisition License) I had to attend an 8 hour course on gun safety then complete a written and practical exam, each requiring 90% accuracy to pass. This then allowed me to purchase guns that fall into the hunting rifle and shotgun categories which can be purchased and immediately taken home. I then took an additional course that was another 8 hours with another set of exams on what we call "restricted" firearms. At this point I then had to join a gun range as a member before being able to purchase any restricted weapon (hand guns, short rifles, etc). To take home a purchased restricted weapon I had to apply for an Authorization to Transport from our national police service. At this point I was allowed to pick up my purchased firearm. There are a few more laws controlling where I am allowed to shoot which guns I own but it basically comes down to handguns can only be shot at a gun range. I hope this clarified things for you.

    Psykoma on
  • The Hanged ManThe Hanged Man Once I ate a pizza so big, they gave me a prize. Then I threw up and they took it back.Registered User regular
    edited October 2017
    Fucking Tucker Carlson has been trying to argue that the bump stock probably actually saved lives, because firing in full-auto is so much less accurate. Like a guy spraying gunfire out of a window into a densely packed crowd below would be taking the time to line up individual targets.

    In other news, why can't I stop screaming and spraying blood out of my eye sockets aaaaaahhhhhhhh

    The Hanged Man on
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  • ShortyShorty JUDGE BROSEF Registered User regular
    Fucking Tucker Carlson has been trying to argue that the bump stock probably actually saved lives, because firing in full-auto is so much less accurate. Like a guy spraying gunfire out of a window into a densely packed crowd below would be taking the time to line up individual targets.

    In other news, why can't I stop screaming and spraying blood out of my eye sockets aaaaaahhhhhhhh

    lots of gunsplainers have been making that argument

    it's incredibly stupid

    Tube wrote: »
    I was legit hoping that Shorty was somehow mistaken and the world wasn't that fucked
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  • SiliconStewSiliconStew Registered User regular
    Fucking Tucker Carlson has been trying to argue that the bump stock probably actually saved lives, because firing in full-auto is so much less accurate. Like a guy spraying gunfire out of a window into a densely packed crowd below would be taking the time to line up individual targets.

    In other news, why can't I stop screaming and spraying blood out of my eye sockets aaaaaahhhhhhhh

    If the lower rate of automatic fire from a bump stock saved lives due to the increased accuracy, then it logically follows that actual semi-auto fire would have saved even more lives due to the increased accuracy. Thanks for inadvertently arguing that bump stocks should be banned Tucker.

    Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
  • MrMonroeMrMonroe Registered User regular
    Shorty wrote: »
    Fucking Tucker Carlson has been trying to argue that the bump stock probably actually saved lives, because firing in full-auto is so much less accurate. Like a guy spraying gunfire out of a window into a densely packed crowd below would be taking the time to line up individual targets.

    In other news, why can't I stop screaming and spraying blood out of my eye sockets aaaaaahhhhhhhh

    lots of gunsplainers have been making that argument

    it's incredibly stupid

    especially if they want me to take them seriously as "sportsmen" or whatever

    here's a device that let's you fire "full-auto" except you have to, you know, barely hold the weapon itself so that it can go bouncing all over the damn place

    it's good for indiscriminately loosing fire inaccurately

    which is exactly what you need if you want to kill a bunch of people in a crowd, and nothing else

    and I can't tell if that's just obvious enough in this case that even Paul Ryan thinks it's bizarre, or if there's some other political calculus going into it, but boy am I glad there's actually a chance they'll make that dumb nonsense illegal.

    BucketmanErin The Red
  • SiliconStewSiliconStew Registered User regular
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    Shorty wrote: »
    Fucking Tucker Carlson has been trying to argue that the bump stock probably actually saved lives, because firing in full-auto is so much less accurate. Like a guy spraying gunfire out of a window into a densely packed crowd below would be taking the time to line up individual targets.

    In other news, why can't I stop screaming and spraying blood out of my eye sockets aaaaaahhhhhhhh

    lots of gunsplainers have been making that argument

    it's incredibly stupid

    especially if they want me to take them seriously as "sportsmen" or whatever

    here's a device that let's you fire "full-auto" except you have to, you know, barely hold the weapon itself so that it can go bouncing all over the damn place

    it's good for indiscriminately loosing fire inaccurately

    which is exactly what you need if you want to kill a bunch of people in a crowd, and nothing else

    and I can't tell if that's just obvious enough in this case that even Paul Ryan thinks it's bizarre, or if there's some other political calculus going into it, but boy am I glad there's actually a chance they'll make that dumb nonsense illegal.

    Go read the NRA statement again. They want nation-wide conceal carry for maybe letting bump stocks' status be "reevaluated".

    Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
  • MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    The NRA actually factually benefits from mass shootings

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  • Metzger MeisterMetzger Meister Registered User regular
    edited October 2017
    Shorty wrote: »
    honovere wrote: »
    Sorce wrote: »
    So after googling, I know what a bump stock is and why the LV shooter used one. How were these things legal?

    Because gun makers found a loophole in the existing laws and a proposition to close that loophole was killed in 2012 or so, because of course it was. Las Vegas was apparently a great showcase for them, because now the stocks sell like hot cakes.

    That's one of the reasons I quit my job at the firearms accessories factory. The shooting at Pulse happened and my manager was basically doing backflips he was so excited about our new sales numbers.

    that's a really hard thing to do and I'm really impressed

    do you have something else lined up?

    Oh hell I quit that job like a year ago and started school! I'm a sophomore theater major now! Costarring in this semester's production of The Laramie Project: Ten Years Later! It's terrifying and I'm probably gonna need extra semesters to graduate! But it's way better than assembling literal murder accessories!


    Metzger Meister on
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  • PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Ah, man Ah, jeezRegistered User regular
    .
    Shorty wrote: »
    honovere wrote: »
    Sorce wrote: »
    So after googling, I know what a bump stock is and why the LV shooter used one. How were these things legal?

    Because gun makers found a loophole in the existing laws and a proposition to close that loophole was killed in 2012 or so, because of course it was. Las Vegas was apparently a great showcase for them, because now the stocks sell like hot cakes.

    That's one of the reasons I quit my job at the firearms accessories factory. The shooting at Pulse happened and my manager was basically doing backflips he was so excited about our new sales numbers.

    that's a really hard thing to do and I'm really impressed

    do you have something else lined up?

    Oh hell I quit that job like a year ago and started school! I'm a sophomore theater major now! Costarring in this semester's production of The Laramie Project: Ten Years Later! It's terrifying and I'm probably gonna need extra semesters to graduate! But it's way better than assembling literal murder accessories!


    Dude

    I'm so fucking stoked for you

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  • Metzger MeisterMetzger Meister Registered User regular
    .
    Shorty wrote: »
    honovere wrote: »
    Sorce wrote: »
    So after googling, I know what a bump stock is and why the LV shooter used one. How were these things legal?

    Because gun makers found a loophole in the existing laws and a proposition to close that loophole was killed in 2012 or so, because of course it was. Las Vegas was apparently a great showcase for them, because now the stocks sell like hot cakes.

    That's one of the reasons I quit my job at the firearms accessories factory. The shooting at Pulse happened and my manager was basically doing backflips he was so excited about our new sales numbers.

    that's a really hard thing to do and I'm really impressed

    do you have something else lined up?

    Oh hell I quit that job like a year ago and started school! I'm a sophomore theater major now! Costarring in this semester's production of The Laramie Project: Ten Years Later! It's terrifying and I'm probably gonna need extra semesters to graduate! But it's way better than assembling literal murder accessories!


    Dude

    I'm so fucking stoked for you

    I'm stoked for me too tbh. First time in a long time. Hard to be optimistic with all this bullshit that's going on but you gotta keep on grinding or the stone will grind you and all that.

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  • BucketmanBucketman Call me SkraggRegistered User regular
    Yeah Metzger I am so glad your not working there anymore, I know how hard it was on your mental stability.

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  • Dead LegendDead Legend Registered User regular
    Metz, thanks for your fine assembly of any products I may have that passed through your hands

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  • EinzelEinzel Registered User regular
    How to not read the room: A Dead Legend story.

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  • QuantumTurkQuantumTurk Registered User regular
    The NRA has a fine tradition of making sure gun control laws do exist, but are convoluted with loopholes, and not so onerous as to decrease sales. They are however something they get to point to as them being "responsible", and that we don't need more, and maybe need less, because hey, look at these complicated and ineffective laws that got passed! It also gives them something to point at to rile up their donors. The NRA wins coming and going, benefiting financially from mass shootings as well as gun control, they will happily swing on that pendulum as hard as they can.
    It's a canny strategy, which just means we're dealing with shit wizards and not shit lords.

  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    The NRA has a fine tradition of making sure gun control laws do exist, but are convoluted with loopholes, and not so onerous as to decrease sales. They are however something they get to point to as them being "responsible", and that we don't need more, and maybe need less, because hey, look at these complicated and ineffective laws that got passed! It also gives them something to point at to rile up their donors. The NRA wins coming and going, benefiting financially from mass shootings as well as gun control, they will happily swing on that pendulum as hard as they can.
    It's a canny strategy, which just means we're dealing with shit wizards and not shit lords.

    If a law is built to ensure loopholes, and when those loopholes are discovered, aren't corrected, they cease to be loopholes at that point.

    Like, the gun show loophole, isn't. It's how the law is intended to work, according to lawmakers. Which just makes them even more complicit.

  • Dead LegendDead Legend Registered User regular
    Einzel wrote: »
    How to not read the room: A Dead Legend story.

    Please, I’m much less of a dickhead than I was in old gun control threads.

    Simple fact is, I really do like the people who post here but I’m not going to change their mind and I like Metz so I gotta give him a little grief for my “literal murder accessories”

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  • MrMonroeMrMonroe Registered User regular
  • chrishallett83chrishallett83 Hi! Registered User regular
    Einzel wrote: »
    How to not read the room: A Dead Legend story.

    Nah. DL is good people. He likes shooting, I like shooting. He's not as keen on gun control as I am, I support repealing the second amendment.

    We don't have to be enemies.

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  • QuantumTurkQuantumTurk Registered User regular
    I think when someone talks about having severe enough moral qualms with what they did in their job to quit, you don't "give them a little grief" about it, unless you mean to give actual grief.

    Like, I kill a lot of animals as part of my job and fucking hate it. If someone were to make a flip joke to me about oh hey thanks for working the abattoir I'd be rightly pissed. And I DO think my work is justified, which isn't even the case here. (I know metz was doing it for a paycheck which is justifiable, gotta pay rent and eat after all. And they STILL had the chutzpah to quit.)

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  • I needed a gnome to post.I needed a gnome to post. like fire Registered User regular
    the person who decides whether it was reading the room is metzger

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  • QuantumTurkQuantumTurk Registered User regular
    the person who decides whether it was reading the room is metzger

    Also this, I can only speak for myself.

  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    More news outlets need to focus on all the people who all just lost their lives, rather than the shitbird who took them

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  • SporkAndrewSporkAndrew Registered User, ClubPA regular
    More news outlets need to focus on all the people who all just lost their lives, rather than the shitbird who took them

    The "some asshole" initiative needs to come into effect yesterday, really.

    The one about the fucking space hairdresser and the cowboy. He's got a tinfoil pal and a pedal bin
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  • Metzger MeisterMetzger Meister Registered User regular
    Metz, thanks for your fine assembly of any products I may have that passed through your hands

    If you got a Magpul flip sight that doesn't work right, odds are I made it.

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  • Dead LegendDead Legend Registered User regular
    Metz, thanks for your fine assembly of any products I may have that passed through your hands

    If you got a Magpul flip sight that doesn't work right, odds are I made it.

    Plastic or metal?

    I got the metal ones currently.

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  • Mortal SkyMortal Sky queer punk hedge witchRegistered User regular
    oh man my roommate had one of those sights on his kinda slapped together AR build and it was so, so bad

  • Mortal SkyMortal Sky queer punk hedge witchRegistered User regular
    I also am just not a big fan of Magpul in general because all their stuff feels kinda shitty in hand so it's vindicating to hear their bosses are some degree of shitlords

  • MalReynoldsMalReynolds The Hunter S Thompson of incredibly mild medicines Registered User regular
    Speaking only for myself, this latest line of discourse in this thread has made me very uncomfortable.

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  • chrishallett83chrishallett83 Hi! Registered User regular
    Mortal Sky wrote: »
    I also am just not a big fan of Magpul in general because all their stuff feels kinda shitty in hand so it's vindicating to hear their bosses are some degree of shitlords

    Apparently their AR magazines are some of the best in the business, but a lot of their stuff seems really plasticky and cheap when I see it in gear reviews and whatnot online?

  • Dead LegendDead Legend Registered User regular
    Mags are good to go. Stocks are good to go. Legit irons are solid. I enjoy wearing short shorts so I have their modern dive shorts and they are top notch.

    And that is the extent of my affair with magpul

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  • Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    Yeah maybe like literally any other thread would be a cooler place to discuss your favorite gun accessories

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  • chrishallett83chrishallett83 Hi! Registered User regular
    Fair point! Sorry folks.

  • Bluedude152Bluedude152 Registered User regular
    How does this happen every shooting thread

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