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Las Vegas Shooting (Sunday night Oct. 1)

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Posts

  • knitdanknitdan Oh no Too much hunnyRegistered User regular
    You know how outlaw biker gangs will do "charity rides" every once in a while to try and make it seem like they're not just pimps and drug dealers?

    Yeah. That's the Eddie Eagle program. Something innocuous for the NRA to point at when their murder machines get used to murder a bunch of people, exactly as they were designed to do.

    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
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  • Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular
    The current day nra is a domestic terrorist program

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  • CelloCello Registered User regular
    I mean

    If the government was responsible for certification and background checks it sure seems like they'd be the better organization to run gun safety classes than a group barely different from a PAC

    I don't know why it must be a private group aside from standard American anxieties about the government taking guns away, which is.... Something

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  • I needed a gnome to post.I needed a gnome to post. Registered User regular
    Cello wrote: »
    I mean

    If the government was responsible for certification and background checks it sure seems like they'd be the better organization to run gun safety classes than a group barely different from a PAC

    I don't know why it must be a private group aside from standard American anxieties about the government taking guns away, which is.... Something

    It's an American's god-given right to fantasize about violent revolution

    One of the reasons why stories where "enemy army actually invades America and sets americans up as the underdogs!" are so popular!

    3Unc6CD.jpg
    StiltsDouglasDangerEinzel
  • chrishallett83chrishallett83 Hi! Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Gundi wrote: »
    The NRA started as a gun safety and training organization. That was literally its original purpose.

    Yes, and the rest of the organization has grown into the cumbersome beast that it is today.

    That’s why when everybody demonizes them, however much they may deserve it, I do get a little sad because they do actually provide a valuable and necessary service.
    They don't advertise that service ever, nor do they advertise the relatively brief messaging of gun safety.

    We can replace the NRA with another organization for the safe handling of firearms. The NRA is poisoned and all you hear from them is "OVER MY DEAD BODY."

    Soooo do we go GOA, Pink Pistols, JPFO, what?

    Cause I’m good with all of the above

    The Black Panthers would be a good group to have running free firearm safety classes all over the country.

    The old socialist black panthers or the ones listed as a hate group by the ADL and SPLC?

    Edit: or perhaps the Huey P Newton Gun Club?

    The ones the NRA tried to disarm.

  • chrishallett83chrishallett83 Hi! Registered User regular
    Wait shit that's all of them, isn't it...

  • DoobhDoobh She/Her, Ace Pan/Bisexual 8-) What's up, bootlickers?Registered User regular
    Bloods End wrote: »
    The current day nra is a domestic terrorist program

    sorry, Antifa took up up the last terrorist organization slot this year

    better luck next time :(

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  • SorceSorce Registered User regular
    Erlkönig wrote: »
    Knob wrote: »
    Sorce wrote: »
    Action open, safety on.

    There arent many guns that can engage the safety while the action is open.

    I wonder if that's an older gun thing. Every single one of the guns (all from different manufacturers) in my home that has a manually operated safety can engage the safety while the action is open (and the oldest guns were designed in 2003).
    It might be?

    The guns I learned on can do it, but that was over 20 years ago. And the guns themselves weren't new then, either.

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  • StiltsStilts Registered User regular
    Education is hard when people actively lobby for suppression of information and creating alternative narratives that will place blame on anything but the weapons.

    Which is still just the most frustrating thing to me. During my more depressed moments I often consider that if I was in the US I'd probably have had access to a fire arm and my suicidal moments would've being way more likely to be fatal.

    Yeah, if my dad had owned a gun, there would have been a far greater likelihood of me just not being here.

    As it was, my best option available was a knife. Which, while very tempting at times, was just inconvenient enough to make me hesitate frequently enough to eventually find the catalysts that helped pull me out of my depression.

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    Lalabox
  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Guns make killing yourself terrifyingly easy and people who have never felt that urge will never, ever, ever understand that sometimes, often even, it is literally the difficulty of doing it that keeps people alive.

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  • LalaboxLalabox Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    Guns make killing yourself terrifyingly easy and people who have never felt that urge will never, ever, ever understand that sometimes, often even, it is literally the difficulty of doing it that keeps people alive.

    yeah, anyone saying "oh they just would have done it anyway" straight up just doesn't know a single thing about suicide

    lonelyahavaLabelDouglasDangerchrishallett83EinzelCromartyZonugalSolarUrielStiltsKetarMagic PinktynicRainfallMrMonroeThe Hanged ManpookaWeaverNightDragonSleepturtleantPlatyAistanKadithAbsurdPropositionWeedLordVegetaFencingsaxRomanian My EscutcheonTommy2HandsNothingVeldrinMidniteShortyknitdanAngelinaSkeithHermanoJacques L'HommeAuralynxfurlion
  • EinzelEinzel Registered User regular
    Sorce wrote: »
    Erlkönig wrote: »
    Knob wrote: »
    Sorce wrote: »
    Action open, safety on.

    There arent many guns that can engage the safety while the action is open.

    I wonder if that's an older gun thing. Every single one of the guns (all from different manufacturers) in my home that has a manually operated safety can engage the safety while the action is open (and the oldest guns were designed in 2003).
    It might be?

    The guns I learned on can do it, but that was over 20 years ago. And the guns themselves weren't new then, either.

    Dunno if this information is helpful to the thread but the reason is that the safety is usually tied to the firing mechanism. When an action is open, it's often resetting the firing mechanism which moves the safety-interacting surfaces out of position for the safety to engage. It's not uncommon for this to be intentional.

  • SorceSorce Registered User regular
    edited October 2017
    I think the idea was that when the action closes (like when a round gets chambered in a pistol), the safety is engaged so it can't be fired accidentally. But if that's not how it works (or at least how it works now due to changes in manufacturing in the last 30+ years), I apologize for putting out bad advice.

    Sorce on
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  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    even the old NRA had all kinds of asterisks around it because the gun ownership they were promoting was strictly for white people

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  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    Dubh wrote: »
    Bloods End wrote: »
    The current day nra is a domestic terrorist program

    sorry, Antifa took up up the last terrorist organization slot this year

    better luck next time :(
    Actually the FBI just classified "black extremists" as the newest terror threat to the USA this past week. There's plenty of room.

    Nobody likes me but that's okay. I'm used to it.
    RainfallDoobhZonugal
  • ShortyShorty JUDGE BROSEF Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Dubh wrote: »
    Bloods End wrote: »
    The current day nra is a domestic terrorist program

    sorry, Antifa took up up the last terrorist organization slot this year

    better luck next time :(
    Actually the FBI just classified "black extremists" as the newest terror threat to the USA this past week. There's plenty of room.

    stuff like this is why when people talk about people like Mueller or Comey getting us out of the mess we're in I'm always like :/

    Tube wrote: »
    I was legit hoping that Shorty was somehow mistaken and the world wasn't that fucked
    tynicSleepRainfallNeoTomaDouglasDangerRomanian My EscutcheonZonugalchrishallett83BucketmanSkeithSolarPoorochondriacMatev
  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Shorty wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Dubh wrote: »
    Bloods End wrote: »
    The current day nra is a domestic terrorist program

    sorry, Antifa took up up the last terrorist organization slot this year

    better luck next time :(
    Actually the FBI just classified "black extremists" as the newest terror threat to the USA this past week. There's plenty of room.

    stuff like this is why when people talk about people like Mueller or Comey getting us out of the mess we're in I'm always like :/

    Different flavour of assholes, but still assholes.

    chrishallett83
  • OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel floof Registered User regular
    Shorty wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Dubh wrote: »
    Bloods End wrote: »
    The current day nra is a domestic terrorist program

    sorry, Antifa took up up the last terrorist organization slot this year

    better luck next time :(
    Actually the FBI just classified "black extremists" as the newest terror threat to the USA this past week. There's plenty of room.

    stuff like this is why when people talk about people like Mueller or Comey getting us out of the mess we're in I'm always like :/

    The people who talk about stuff like that are the sort who like to think that our current issues are the result of a couple of "bad apples" in power and think that if we can just remove those everything will be fine. It's a stance of either naivety or an (admittedly understandable) inability to grok the sheer depths of how fucked things are.

    cdci44qazyo3.gif

    ShortyDoobhFencingsaxZonugalBucketmanHermanoEmerlmaster999
  • EinzelEinzel Registered User regular
    Shorty wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Dubh wrote: »
    Bloods End wrote: »
    The current day nra is a domestic terrorist program

    sorry, Antifa took up up the last terrorist organization slot this year

    better luck next time :(
    Actually the FBI just classified "black extremists" as the newest terror threat to the USA this past week. There's plenty of room.

    stuff like this is why when people talk about people like Mueller or Comey getting us out of the mess we're in I'm always like :/

    Glimmers are still hope.

    Magic Pink
  • DoobhDoobh She/Her, Ace Pan/Bisexual 8-) What's up, bootlickers?Registered User regular
    folk have a tendency to look at things as solvable and caused by individuals or organizations, rather than thinking of those concepts as endemic to society

    it is incredibly frustrating to watch, because goddess knows there isn't much I'm capable of doing
    Henroid wrote: »
    Dubh wrote: »
    Bloods End wrote: »
    The current day nra is a domestic terrorist program

    sorry, Antifa took up up the last terrorist organization slot this year

    better luck next time :(
    Actually the FBI just classified "black extremists" as the newest terror threat to the USA this past week. There's plenty of room.

    once again made a fool by the general shittiness of American power structures

    Miss me? Find me on:

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  • Virgil_Leads_YouVirgil_Leads_You Not on Any Podcast or Affliated Don't Even Own a MikeRegistered User regular
    Just to further the discussion for the fortunate folk that don't have experience. It's not a vice.

    I've lived most of my life with a handicapped family member, that's lived through something like 16 serious self harm crisises.
    Knives, Scissors, overdosing on pills, goddamn Laundry Detergent, etc.

    I would say "would have done regardless", misses the point that we can pump someone's stomach.
    We can stop bleeding, and restrain a person and get medical help. The suicidee doesn't get a quick painless option with a kitchen knife.
    Even if they aren't there all the way, cutting is actively painful and scary in a way that invokes hesitation and screaming.

    Thankfully my family member has survived to have had a pretty ok year, with their meds working ok.
    Everyone dealing with suicide due to mental health, or shitty circumstances, should get the chance to survive and do all right for a period.

    VayBJ4e.png
  • MalReynoldsMalReynolds The Hunter S Thompson of incredibly mild medicines Registered User regular
    I lost someone I loved dearly to suicide by gun.

    She had tried other methods, which didn't take, but eight months after getting a firearm, I lost my best friend and the love of my life.

    "A new take on the epic fantasy genre... Darkly comic, relatable characters... twisted storyline."
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  • ElaroElaro Mister No Fun AllowedRegistered User regular
    I lost someone I loved dearly to suicide by gun.

    She had tried other methods, which didn't take, but eight months after getting a firearm, I lost my best friend and the love of my life.

    :bro:

    "Most people don't look at the world through your asshole"
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  • Virgil_Leads_YouVirgil_Leads_You Not on Any Podcast or Affliated Don't Even Own a MikeRegistered User regular
    I have no idea what pebble pushed downhill in the past, medical, biological, socially, is going to turn into the avalanche that enables a sucide of my family member.
    There's so much agony for the family with each attempt. I think everyone who's encountered it, sympathizes.

    The worst bit is I don't think our socity is going to learn and do better in prevention and treatment.
    I have nothing but pessimism for the current leadership of american society.

    Like toddlers, I don't think they'll ever care until they experience it themselves.
    It feels like we only got insurance coverage reform because enough powerful folk witnessed their family get run ruffshod by insurance companies.

    VayBJ4e.png
  • bsjezzbsjezz Registered User regular
    edited October 2017
    noticed this snippet from louie theroux in a guardian interview about his upcoming series:
    I still remember being in America [in 1999] – on location, shooting an episode of Weird Weekends about wrestling – when Columbine happened. Nothing has changed. Americans tend to see these spree shootings as a reason to buy more guns, not fewer. I honestly can’t imagine what it would take to change the paradigm. It’s too deeply ingrained in the myths Americans have about themselves.

    it sort of sums up how i've come to feel about it, i suppose from the perspective of an outsider who can afford to be, just like, sadly resigned about the matter...

    edit: one of these three upcoming episodes is on police, so i'm very eager to watch that one.

    bsjezz on
    sC4Q4nq.jpg
  • CorporateLogoCorporateLogo The toilet knows how I feelRegistered User regular
    Everyone who talks about a few "bad apples" invariably omits the second half of that proverb, "spoil the bunch"

    Do not have a cow, mortal.

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  • HorizonShiftHorizonShift Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited October 2017
    The mental gymnastics involved in being a christian and propping up the gun industry is astounding to me. How is giving money to people who profit off of murder in any way a christian thing to do? Shouldn't they be as mad about guns are they are about abortion? They're a literal instrument of war.

    HorizonShift on
    Magic PinkRainfall
  • BrainleechBrainleech Registered User regular
    bsjezz wrote: »
    noticed this snippet from louie theroux in a guardian interview about his upcoming series:
    I still remember being in America [in 1999] – on location, shooting an episode of Weird Weekends about wrestling – when Columbine happened. Nothing has changed. Americans tend to see these spree shootings as a reason to buy more guns, not fewer. I honestly can’t imagine what it would take to change the paradigm. It’s too deeply ingrained in the myths Americans have about themselves.

    it sort of sums up how i've come to feel about it, i suppose from the perspective of an outsider who can afford to be, just like, sadly resigned about the matter...

    edit: one of these three upcoming episodes is on police, so i'm very eager to watch that one.

    When marylin manson talked about how the Columbine shootings killed his career it didn't really
    It killed the business the shooters worked for Black Jack Pizza
    Even though it lives on it was never the same after that

    Metzger Meister
  • Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    edited October 2017
    The mental gymnastics involved in being a christian and propping up the gun industry is astounding to me. How is giving money to people who profit off of murder in any way a christian thing to do? Shouldn't they be as mad about guns are they are about abortion? They're a literal instrument of war.

    mainstream american christianity isn't really a coherent philosophy or faith system in any meaningful way, it's a disparate set of cultural signifiers stamped with the veneer of religion to lend it divine authority

    Even calling it "christianity" seems odd considering how frequently it stands in direct opposition to the words of Christ but that's what they call themselves so, vOv

    Speed Racer on
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  • TossrockTossrock too weird to live too rare to dieRegistered User regular
    edited October 2017
    bsjezz wrote: »
    noticed this snippet from louie theroux in a guardian interview about his upcoming series:
    I still remember being in America [in 1999] – on location, shooting an episode of Weird Weekends about wrestling – when Columbine happened. Nothing has changed. Americans tend to see these spree shootings as a reason to buy more guns, not fewer. I honestly can’t imagine what it would take to change the paradigm. It’s too deeply ingrained in the myths Americans have about themselves.

    it sort of sums up how i've come to feel about it, i suppose from the perspective of an outsider who can afford to be, just like, sadly resigned about the matter...

    edit: one of these three upcoming episodes is on police, so i'm very eager to watch that one.

    Frankly, I don't think it's solvable by direct action, ie some piece of legislation which will magically heal America. As Dubh said, it's endemic to society. Things that make up the social fabric can't be rooted out with legislation - see eg Prohibition. Society does change over time, though. As Max Planck said, "A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it." A new societal truth about guns won't triumph via legislation, but instead because everyone has better entertainment options and would rather just scroll through Facebook. Gun ownership by household is in decline, and near a 40 year low point. Cold comfort in the face of such gut wrenching violence, as statistics always are, but perhaps comfort nonetheless.

    Tossrock on
    sig.png
    bsjezz
  • PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Realtor Santa ClaritaRegistered User regular
    The mental gymnastics involved in being a christian and propping up the gun industry is astounding to me. How is giving money to people who profit off of murder in any way a christian thing to do? Shouldn't they be as mad about guns are they are about abortion? They're a literal instrument of war.

    mainstream american christianity isn't really a coherent philosophy or faith system in any meaningful way, it's a disparate set of cultural signifiers stamped with the veneer of religion to lend it divine authority

    Even calling it "christianity" seems odd considering how frequently it stands in direct opposition to the words of Christ but that's what they call themselves so, vOv

    The amount of cognitive dissonance necessary to call yourself a good Christian out one side of your mouth and judge basically everybody else on the planet out the other is beyond staggering to me.

    ZonugalNightDragon
  • Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    bsjezz wrote: »
    noticed this snippet from louie theroux in a guardian interview about his upcoming series:
    I still remember being in America [in 1999] – on location, shooting an episode of Weird Weekends about wrestling – when Columbine happened. Nothing has changed. Americans tend to see these spree shootings as a reason to buy more guns, not fewer. I honestly can’t imagine what it would take to change the paradigm. It’s too deeply ingrained in the myths Americans have about themselves.

    it sort of sums up how i've come to feel about it, i suppose from the perspective of an outsider who can afford to be, just like, sadly resigned about the matter...

    edit: one of these three upcoming episodes is on police, so i'm very eager to watch that one.

    Louis Theroux is a national treasure. I love his stuff.

    bsjezztynic
  • bsjezzbsjezz Registered User regular
    bsjezz wrote: »
    noticed this snippet from louie theroux in a guardian interview about his upcoming series:
    I still remember being in America [in 1999] – on location, shooting an episode of Weird Weekends about wrestling – when Columbine happened. Nothing has changed. Americans tend to see these spree shootings as a reason to buy more guns, not fewer. I honestly can’t imagine what it would take to change the paradigm. It’s too deeply ingrained in the myths Americans have about themselves.

    it sort of sums up how i've come to feel about it, i suppose from the perspective of an outsider who can afford to be, just like, sadly resigned about the matter...

    edit: one of these three upcoming episodes is on police, so i'm very eager to watch that one.

    Louis Theroux is a national treasure. I love his stuff.

    if you haven't listened to it, the episode of marc maron's wtf podcast featuring louie is incredible. there's a bit of backstory between them and they're both so dry in their humour that it becomes weirdly standoffish and utterly hilarious.

    sC4Q4nq.jpg
    tynic
  • Magic PinkMagic Pink Tur-Boner-Fed Registered User regular
    Shorty wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Dubh wrote: »
    Bloods End wrote: »
    The current day nra is a domestic terrorist program

    sorry, Antifa took up up the last terrorist organization slot this year

    better luck next time :(
    Actually the FBI just classified "black extremists" as the newest terror threat to the USA this past week. There's plenty of room.

    stuff like this is why when people talk about people like Mueller or Comey getting us out of the mess we're in I'm always like :/

    The people who talk about stuff like that are the sort who like to think that our current issues are the result of a couple of "bad apples" in power and think that if we can just remove those everything will be fine. It's a stance of either naivety or an (admittedly understandable) inability to grok the sheer depths of how fucked things are.

    they may not be fine but things almost literally could not get worse. So yeah I'll absolutely dream of a even slightly less conservative asshole in power, thanks, it's still an improvement

    JayKaos
  • OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel floof Registered User regular
    Magic Pink wrote: »
    Shorty wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Dubh wrote: »
    Bloods End wrote: »
    The current day nra is a domestic terrorist program

    sorry, Antifa took up up the last terrorist organization slot this year

    better luck next time :(
    Actually the FBI just classified "black extremists" as the newest terror threat to the USA this past week. There's plenty of room.

    stuff like this is why when people talk about people like Mueller or Comey getting us out of the mess we're in I'm always like :/

    The people who talk about stuff like that are the sort who like to think that our current issues are the result of a couple of "bad apples" in power and think that if we can just remove those everything will be fine. It's a stance of either naivety or an (admittedly understandable) inability to grok the sheer depths of how fucked things are.

    they may not be fine but things almost literally could not get worse. So yeah I'll absolutely dream of a even slightly less conservative asshole in power, thanks, it's still an improvement

    And I won't, because that sort of incremental improvement really only benefits those of us with the privilege of being able to live under an oppressive regime with better optics. Getting rid of the current administration won't stop congress from continuing to try and strip millions of people of their healthcare. It won't do a thing to help the various minorities whose lives are constantly in danger. And, to bring it back around to the actual subject of this thread, it's going to do jack all to address the issues with gun violence in this country. An improvement that only helps the people one rung down from the top is not an improvement worth fighting for, in my opinion.

    cdci44qazyo3.gif

  • Metzger MeisterMetzger Meister Registered User regular
    Brainleech wrote: »
    bsjezz wrote: »
    noticed this snippet from louie theroux in a guardian interview about his upcoming series:
    I still remember being in America [in 1999] – on location, shooting an episode of Weird Weekends about wrestling – when Columbine happened. Nothing has changed. Americans tend to see these spree shootings as a reason to buy more guns, not fewer. I honestly can’t imagine what it would take to change the paradigm. It’s too deeply ingrained in the myths Americans have about themselves.

    it sort of sums up how i've come to feel about it, i suppose from the perspective of an outsider who can afford to be, just like, sadly resigned about the matter...

    edit: one of these three upcoming episodes is on police, so i'm very eager to watch that one.

    When marylin manson talked about how the Columbine shootings killed his career it didn't really
    It killed the business the shooters worked for Black Jack Pizza
    Even though it lives on it was never the same after that

    Right? Black Jack used to be great!

    Brainleech
  • GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    I would not consider the NRA evil if it actually represented the interests of the majority of gun owners, but it doesn't.

    A strong majority of gun owners want restrictions on firearm sales to people with mental illnesses and people with serious criminal records. Over half of gun owners want a national database to track all gun sales. Even the most divisive issues like an outright assault weapons ban still result in an almost 1:1 ratio of people for and against, with only just slightly over 50% of gun owners responding that they would be opposed to it.

    There is not an overwhelming opposition towards firearms regulation among gun owners, let alone the general public. The only question, among both the general public and people who own firearms, is to what degree should firearm regulations be increased. But the NRA does not represent your average american, nor your average gun owner, not by a long shot. It represents the firearm manufacturers and distributors, pure and simple. And it uses deliberate misinformation, fear-mongering, and vast sums of money to insure that no politician, especially no Republican politician, ever dares increase regulatory efforts. They use the same tactics as old-school fascists, deliberately framing any debate in disingenuous extremes to get the gullible or the ignorant to take their side.

    It is their greed used to stimulate fear and hate among a small but statistically significant slice of the voting public, to bribe/scare politicians and sway caucuses, that is responsible for the thousands of easily preventable firearm related fatalities each year. Their supposed concern for the victims of the Las Vegas massacre is worth less than the shit on the bottom of my shoe.

    chrishallett83RainfallLadaiSorcefurlion
  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    If I was an extremely wealthy American I'd say "right, anyone who the NRA donates to on a Federal level I shall donate the same +50% to their opponents to support firearm legislation"

    In fact if I wasn't a wealthy American I'd try to do the same by creating a non-NRA gun ownership group that explicitly is looking to lobby for gun control

  • GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    You'd think like insurance companies, police unions, etc. would be willing to donate to an organization like that.

  • I needed a gnome to post.I needed a gnome to post. Registered User regular
    I would not think police unions would be willing to donate to an organization like that.

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