We were simply reversing our deal from Turn 1 because it sucked.
This deal also sucks.
We do not believe you were ever committed to peace and we will be doing the universe a favour limiting your reach.
KetarCome on upstairswe're having a partyRegistered Userregular
If you want our Ceasefire, the price is yours + all of your TG + all of your commodities. You can have our 2 commodities in return.
Yes, these deals do suck. They would suck less if you hadn't taken Saudor without any discussion despite our request to talk it over, and hadn't attacked without warning and without provocation. We're pretty sure we can take and hold Muaat though, and not lose our homeworld in the process.
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KetarCome on upstairswe're having a partyRegistered Userregular
When did we lie?
It was a necessity to get our card back before you started outright hostilities against us.
Your possession of the Warfare card makes it quite clear you weren't simply trying to get your card back. Unless you were planning on hitting Mecatol Rex after all, after telling the Winnu you wouldn't. Which would be a different lie.
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Mojo_JojoWe are only now beginning to understand the full power and ramifications of sexual intercourseRegistered Userregular
It's got all fighty in here all of a sudden
*flicks lights on and off*
Fight
Fight
Fight!
Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
We are currently fielding a request for help against the L1Z1X.
It has become increasingly clear that we will not be able to suppress them ourselves.
With their increasing access to advanced technology we fear a protracted battle is only going to serve them.
Any aid would be appreciated.
Also Warfare let us get our card back with impunity
Seeing as you are about to be punished for your decision to attack, we do not think that word means what you think it means.
We use our words correctly; It was better for us to claim back our card with the assured success of Warfare, than to be invaded with no ability to activate the stolen system.
We saw no available avenue to not be targeted, so your actions now were expected, accomodated and now counterable.
We are also not sure why we are even deigning to justify our strategy card, considering how you disparaged our attempts to negotiate the Speaker token.
Given the three cards in front of us, only Warfare seemed to provide enough protection from your projected aggression.
If you had wanted us to select from seven instead, you could have afforded us the first selection after you.
Also Warfare let us get our card back with impunity
Seeing as you are about to be punished for your decision to attack, we do not think that word means what you think it means.
We use our words correctly; It was better for us to claim back our card with the assured success of Warfare, than to be invaded with no ability to activate the stolen system.
We saw no available avenue to not be targeted, so your actions now were expected, accomodated and now counterable.
If we had wanted to attack you, we would have taken Warfare ourselves. Or Leadership for the extra actions. Or something with better initiative to ensure that we went before you.
If the Muaat had only wanted to protect themselves from the second smallest empire in terms of planets and resources, perhaps you might have considered Diplomacy? Or building in your home system rather than attacking? It wouldn't take much to stave off the cargo capacity of three cruisers :P Even Construction and placing a couple of PDS units would make this much more difficult.
As the ancient Tibetan philosophy states, "Don't start none, won't be none."
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jakobaggerLO THY DREAD EMPIRE CHAOS IS RESTOREDRegistered Userregular
PLAY on Tech secondary (SP 2>1)
Exhaust Vefut( 2R) and Resculon (2R) to research Dacxive Animators
Man, given how swingy the techs are in quality from level to level, tech planets or racial abilities that let you skip seem really good.
Man, given how swingy the techs are in quality from level to level, tech planets or racial abilities that let you skip seem really good.
That's interesting. I was just thinking on the drive to work this morning that tech planets seem quite limited in utility. I'd not actually spotted that most races have to sequentially move through the chains without them (aside from whichever two colours their racials are)
Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
@Lykouragh@MrBlarney Need to check how we're handling the transaction timing. I would like to propose a 2:2 commodity swap with Naalu so I can afford technology. We performed a transaction when they activated the Trade card. I guess that counts as Naalu performing a transaction. Can I now propose a transaction? It's not my turn but I think we're going with the timing of once per turn "round" per player?
If not, then @jakobagger would Hacan be interested in doing us a solid and exchange 2 TG for our 2 commodities? You could look at it as a net gain since you're helping out your neighbor's competition.
Also Warfare let us get our card back with impunity
Seeing as you are about to be punished for your decision to attack, we do not think that word means what you think it means.
We use our words correctly; It was better for us to claim back our card with the assured success of Warfare, than to be invaded with no ability to activate the stolen system.
We saw no available avenue to not be targeted, so your actions now were expected, accomodated and now counterable.
If we had wanted to attack you, we would have taken Warfare ourselves. Or Leadership for the extra actions. Or something with better initiative to ensure that we went before you.
If the Muaat had only wanted to protect themselves from the second smallest empire in terms of planets and resources, perhaps you might have considered Diplomacy? Or building in your home system rather than attacking? It wouldn't take much to stave off the cargo capacity of three cruisers :P Even Construction and placing a couple of PDS units would make this much more difficult.
As the ancient Tibetan philosophy states, "Don't start none, won't be none."
We would not have been able to build everywhere to prevent your ingress.
We also did not see the double action tech, and thought we had a second turn.
We also think claiming that you taking Tech in order to be 'peaceful' is laughable.
Lykouragh, MrBlarney: Need to check how we're handling the transaction timing. I would like to propose a 2:2 commodity swap with Naalu so I can afford technology. We performed a transaction when they activated the Trade card. I guess that counts as Naalu performing a transaction. Can I now propose a transaction? It's not my turn but I think we're going with the timing of once per turn "round" per player?
Ah, hm. So, you could propose a transaction with Naalu now, sure. But I've been resolving transactions on player turns (like how you've set it up in TI4e Game 1) out of convenience, some adherence to the rules and because it's not yet made a difference. I can see that it makes a difference now, so I'm gonna have to think a bit on the ruling for the forum game. I'm currently inclined on sticking to only resolving transactions when it is the turn of one player involved in the transaction, to stick with the official rules as much as possible. In that case, setting up a transaction with Hacan wouldn't help either. You might want to think of other ways of paying for the technology such as exhausting planets for resources? I'll post again tonight with a harder guideline on transaction resolution.
@jakobagger@Lykouragh offer is open to trade 2:2 commodities/TG on one of our next turns
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KetarCome on upstairswe're having a partyRegistered Userregular
That's everybody then.
Activate Muaat. Move in 2 cruisers from L1z1x, carrying a total of 1 fighter and 1 infantry. @discrider for any response before the invasion begins.
Muaat, again if we had wanted this there were far more sensible strategies for us to have chosen while gaining Cruiser II from playing the Tech secondary. We had no desire for war with a neighbor who possesses war suns. Even war suns with training wheels. Had we wanted war with you we would have built more dreadnoughts and taken our racial Super Dreadnoughts instead. We opted for building cruisers since there was significantly less that they could potentially inflict and they should have been less threatening, to a less paranoid race anyway. Our intentions for them were waaay less predictable than hitting either of our neighbors' homeworlds.
If you had built at Muaat, or played diplomacy there, or put a couple of PDS units there then if I had wanted to attack you the only easy targets would be Xxehan and maybe Saudor. Neither terribly inviting or really worth starting a war over. You still could have forced us to play the ceasefire exactly as you did by activating Arnor-Lor, and then safely retaken either of those two systems. But this wasn't a defensive action. This was a warlike race trying to take advantage of perceived weakness in their neighbor. Your absurd attempts to spin it otherwise grow tiresome.
In all seriousness, I hate playing predictable games and following predictable strategies. I had planned something far more interesting with Technology. This is very basic, and very boring to me, and not at all what I wanted from this game.
In all seriousness, I hate playing predictable games and following predictable strategies. I had planned something far more interesting with Technology. This is very basic, and very boring to me, and not at all what I wanted from this game.
I don't know.
I appear incapable of playing this game.
KetarCome on upstairswe're having a partyRegistered Userregular
edited October 2017
We assimilate the Muaat space dock while taking possession of Muaat. Exhaust Sakulag and use Sarween Tools to produce 6 infantry on Muaat. That concludes our turn.
Oh and @jakobagger are you getting out of there next round? Or do I need to get cranky and start beating up on your home planet?
Just for the sake of argument could you explain how you are expecting to be able to do that? Threats only work if the threatee believe them to be realistic.
To get me to do what you want you could either make actual deals and make it worth my while (and I have honoured all such deals I've made this game) or you can just demand I do stuff, like with Vefut (which btw I had overlooked your message about at first, but when I saw it I interpreted as a threat).
finalize that trade with Winnu now that we're not breaking the rules
Play Focused Research
Action: Spend 4 trade goods to research 1 technology.
Spending 4 TG for Gravity drive
@jakobagger I'm not the one who just planted a War sun smack in the middle of the peaceful snake systems! I'd rather just build my economy up, but if you're going to sit there I have no choice but to do something productive with my fleet.
Tell you what, two choices for you.
Carrot- you move out next round, I take Vefut with my carrier fleet, you can have whatever secret objective you're playing for right now and also a Ceasefire or Trade Agreement promissory note, we live happily as peaceful neighbors. I don't have much more than that I could offer you.
Stick- I have two nasty action cards left still, you can guess which ones. I will use them to wreck your fleet building capacity and we can be fighting bloody war for the wrest of the game.
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KetarCome on upstairswe're having a partyRegistered Userregular
Lykouragh, MrBlarney: Need to check how we're handling the transaction timing. I would like to propose a 2:2 commodity swap with Naalu so I can afford technology. We performed a transaction when they activated the Trade card. I guess that counts as Naalu performing a transaction. Can I now propose a transaction? It's not my turn but I think we're going with the timing of once per turn "round" per player?
Ah, hm. So, you could propose a transaction with Naalu now, sure. But I've been resolving transactions on player turns (like how you've set it up in TI4e Game 1) out of convenience, some adherence to the rules and because it's not yet made a difference. I can see that it makes a difference now, so I'm gonna have to think a bit on the ruling for the forum game. I'm currently inclined on sticking to only resolving transactions when it is the turn of one player involved in the transaction, to stick with the official rules as much as possible. In that case, setting up a transaction with Hacan wouldn't help either. You might want to think of other ways of paying for the technology such as exhausting planets for resources? I'll post again tonight with a harder guideline on transaction resolution.
OK, so coming back to this, I'll end up being semi-flexible about transaction resolutions. I'm still keeping it one transaction offer to each neighbor for each player turn, and resolution will happen only when one player in the transaction has their turn come up. The flexible bit is that I might time-travel transactions to the past when I make game status updates, so if someone makes an offer at the end of their turn, if accepted it will be logged on that player's turn (unless I've already posted a status update before confirmation of the transaction.
Also, it seems like folks are more-or-less okay with letting Naalu's card pass without Sabotage declarations? If I see all other players post without declaring a Sabotage, I'll consider that a clean pass. Status update in the morning.
Posts
This deal also sucks.
We do not believe you were ever committed to peace and we will be doing the universe a favour limiting your reach.
It was a necessity to get our card back before you started outright hostilities against us.
Yes, these deals do suck. They would suck less if you hadn't taken Saudor without any discussion despite our request to talk it over, and hadn't attacked without warning and without provocation. We're pretty sure we can take and hold Muaat though, and not lose our homeworld in the process.
Your possession of the Warfare card makes it quite clear you weren't simply trying to get your card back. Unless you were planning on hitting Mecatol Rex after all, after telling the Winnu you wouldn't. Which would be a different lie.
*flicks lights on and off*
Fight
Fight
Fight!
But if you're happy wasting your ships to try, feel free.
Also Warfare let us get our card back with impunity
Seeing as you are about to be punished for your decision to attack, we do not think that word means what you think it means.
It has become increasingly clear that we will not be able to suppress them ourselves.
With their increasing access to advanced technology we fear a protracted battle is only going to serve them.
Any aid would be appreciated.
We use our words correctly; It was better for us to claim back our card with the assured success of Warfare, than to be invaded with no ability to activate the stolen system.
We saw no available avenue to not be targeted, so your actions now were expected, accomodated and now counterable.
Given the three cards in front of us, only Warfare seemed to provide enough protection from your projected aggression.
If you had wanted us to select from seven instead, you could have afforded us the first selection after you.
If we had wanted to attack you, we would have taken Warfare ourselves. Or Leadership for the extra actions. Or something with better initiative to ensure that we went before you.
If the Muaat had only wanted to protect themselves from the second smallest empire in terms of planets and resources, perhaps you might have considered Diplomacy? Or building in your home system rather than attacking? It wouldn't take much to stave off the cargo capacity of three cruisers :P Even Construction and placing a couple of PDS units would make this much more difficult.
As the ancient Tibetan philosophy states, "Don't start none, won't be none."
Exhaust Vefut( 2R) and Resculon (2R) to research Dacxive Animators
Man, given how swingy the techs are in quality from level to level, tech planets or racial abilities that let you skip seem really good.
Winnu want to trade 2 for 2 on commodities? (l1z4x that is saving one for you! i remembered this time!)
@Lykouragh sounds good, 2:2 it is
If not, then @jakobagger would Hacan be interested in doing us a solid and exchange 2 TG for our 2 commodities?
We would not have been able to build everywhere to prevent your ingress.
We also did not see the double action tech, and thought we had a second turn.
We also think claiming that you taking Tech in order to be 'peaceful' is laughable.
PLAY technology secondary. Spend 1 SP and exhaust Lodor (3R) and Ten'Lak(1R) to gain Graviton Laser systems.
TP/FS/SP: 3/3/1
C/TG/AC: 2/2/3
Activate Muaat. Move in 2 cruisers from L1z1x, carrying a total of 1 fighter and 1 infantry. @discrider for any response before the invasion begins.
Muaat, again if we had wanted this there were far more sensible strategies for us to have chosen while gaining Cruiser II from playing the Tech secondary. We had no desire for war with a neighbor who possesses war suns. Even war suns with training wheels. Had we wanted war with you we would have built more dreadnoughts and taken our racial Super Dreadnoughts instead. We opted for building cruisers since there was significantly less that they could potentially inflict and they should have been less threatening, to a less paranoid race anyway. Our intentions for them were waaay less predictable than hitting either of our neighbors' homeworlds.
If you had built at Muaat, or played diplomacy there, or put a couple of PDS units there then if I had wanted to attack you the only easy targets would be Xxehan and maybe Saudor. Neither terribly inviting or really worth starting a war over. You still could have forced us to play the ceasefire exactly as you did by activating Arnor-Lor, and then safely retaken either of those two systems. But this wasn't a defensive action. This was a warlike race trying to take advantage of perceived weakness in their neighbor. Your absurd attempts to spin it otherwise grow tiresome.
In all seriousness, I hate playing predictable games and following predictable strategies. I had planned something far more interesting with Technology. This is very basic, and very boring to me, and not at all what I wanted from this game.
I don't know.
I appear incapable of playing this game.
Feel free to invade.
@MrBody for the next action.
Just for the sake of argument could you explain how you are expecting to be able to do that? Threats only work if the threatee believe them to be realistic.
To get me to do what you want you could either make actual deals and make it worth my while (and I have honoured all such deals I've made this game) or you can just demand I do stuff, like with Vefut (which btw I had overlooked your message about at first, but when I saw it I interpreted as a threat).
Sure, I'll help make your assets liquid. Trade must flow etc etc.
Tactical action Mellon
Exhaust all planets and spend all TG for 12 resources. Build 3 dreadnoughts
TP/FS/SP: 2/3/1
C/TG/AC: 0/0/3
@Lykouragh
Play Focused Research
Action: Spend 4 trade goods to research 1 technology.
Spending 4 TG for Gravity drive
@jakobagger I'm not the one who just planted a War sun smack in the middle of the peaceful snake systems! I'd rather just build my economy up, but if you're going to sit there I have no choice but to do something productive with my fleet.
Tell you what, two choices for you.
Carrot- you move out next round, I take Vefut with my carrier fleet, you can have whatever secret objective you're playing for right now and also a Ceasefire or Trade Agreement promissory note, we live happily as peaceful neighbors. I don't have much more than that I could offer you.
Stick- I have two nasty action cards left still, you can guess which ones. I will use them to wreck your fleet building capacity and we can be fighting bloody war for the wrest of the game.
2/4/2
@jakobagger
With the new commodity and trading system, I wonder what people would be willing to pay for sabotages on their behalf...