MegafrostLeader of the DecepticonsRegistered Userregular
So let's put this one out there:
Host CD'd the question on thralls, millers and conversions, but clarified that death results are accurate.
Paranoid thought... but conversions could potentially put the kibosh on an all-seer strategy. Because we can't actually trust the seers to be correct about a target being green, right? Or that seers that called a target red aren't themselves red? One convert a day would offset one vote kill a day.
Maybe they are leaving them alive because they are looking for a specific person? Giving the mafia a target to find and kill but only one kill per day could be offset by giving them some of the seer actions. If that's the case going guard every night might have been a better option (though it would make a slow ass game).
Maybe there's a thing going on. There are an endless maybes out there if you wanna go that route.
Great to discuss and have theories, but you don't ignore the ability to have 100% vote accuracy in this game unless you got something substantial to put up.
If it's too good to be true, well, milk it until it ain't. Any village would use this to make best use of the vote in any game they could.
Yeah I wasn't arguing to change to guard or anything, just talking hypotheticals.
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38thDoelets never be stupid againwait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered Userregular
Maybe every time someone selects to seer someone they unconsciously share the knowledge with Yog-Sothoth, the key and guardian of the gate! Every seer opens their mind to indescribable cosmic horror and puts the gate one step closer to opening. Yog-Sothoth knows where The Old Ones broke through of old and where they shall breakthrough again! Only by voting for 3 kills can we appease the undying Old Ones and save what few of us remain in blissful ignorance of the greater darkness of the universe.
It just means that I can boost or reduce the chance of a power vote by 10%. So like I can say "Reduce Beta Seer" and the seers votes cost 10% less. It was useless last night when all votes were pretty much seers.
Worth some consideration considering Chamberlain was mafia, and def a liar
Grunt's Ghosts, are you a neutral, or a special villager?
Not saying you should be the vote target, I'm just curious about your deal!
There's probably one or two folk like enlightenbum who did some irrelevant votes
regarding day 1 guards and such.
Megafrost because he's been talking about not going 3 seer for a couple days now it seems and that's really the only thing that's happened other than seer calls.
Although the last remaining mafia member had been scouted out and so was doomed, they could take some pleasure in the fact that this was, at best, a farce of democracy :P
JPants was the last mafia, and was successfully seered last night. His fate is sealed.
VILLAGE VICTORY
My thoughts on the game in the spoiler.
lol welcome back to Phalla everyone.
Balance: This game obviously wasn’t balanced well. I think late-game mafia may have actually tilted the balance more their way if they could make it there on relatively even footing. That would be hard anyways, but when your villagers are on point Seering mafia, well… The mafia had one of the Special roles (coincidentally) the first four days, which only left two village Specials. The mafia also had an every-other-day Roleblock (which could directly target one of the Specials, no guessing needed), which meant that in the first 2 days, there were only 3 Village Seerings (not 6, the worst-case scenario for the mafia). And of those 3, two randomly seered a mafia. Not only that, but the mafia lost their Roleblocker early, which meant that they couldn’t reduce power the third night. The third night, again, 1/2 Village Seerings hit mafia. (After that it was downhill, since the pool of unseered players shrank faster than deaths.)
That’s pretty rough . Just to add insult to injury, the first (and only) time the mafia Roleblocked someone, that player was inactive with their ability anyways, so it turned out to be completely wasted. 50% chance the village had no Special abilities used that first night, but instead it just started the bloodbath.
I did really enjoy multiple comments of "surely this can't be the case, it's too easy/doesn't make any balance sense." Oh how you underestimate me
Seriously, that village accuracy: Two out of the first three seerings, and 3 out of the first 5 seerings were mafia. By that point, the pool of players was still decently sizeable. Villagers were just good at pinpointing mafia :P
Rotating Specials: One thing that is obvious to me in retrospect, but wasn’t when planning, was the value that the village gained from having no permanent specials, in that all the results could just be public for no loss. I kind of think the mafia should have just stayed quiet. It’s not like they gained anything from speaking out! And that just gave the village more targets to cross off. But it’s hard to tell if that’s just hindsight speaking or not.
Non-rotating specials: I added a couple other non-rotating specials to the village just for fun. I didn't intend for them to impact the game much. Grunt's Ghosts' ability turned out to be completely worthless 'cause I messed up the (super simple) math when planning this out. Oops? 38thDoe's (prevent a player from being one of the three main Specials) would have been potentially useful if the Specials actually had more concrete value and weren't just essentially public seerings.
Mafia abilities: The mafia had the ability to increase their chances and decrease others’ chances of becoming Specials. They could also manipulate the Specials’ public ability votes to a degree, not that that ever mattered this game. If they made it to lategame on decent footing, when the village started to mix up the votes beyond just “Seer all the time,” I think they could have stolen enough vigs to make something happen. Maybe.
The Triple SeersThe triple Seering strategy was the big thing I was concerned about in planning. I thought it was going to be overpowered, and thought of a few easy tweaks to maybe combat that. But then some of the pre-game talk involved voting for other abilities, and in the end I figured I would go with this and see what happened. I was thinking that since the village would probably only get 1 Seering half the time anyways, it would maybe be OK. Turns out you only need 1 Seering a night if you always hit mafia and don’t have to worry about dying the next day :P
The other aspect was that only seering made the game last longer (theoretically), which generally benefits the village anyways.
Future games: If we have gaps of games in the future, I’ll probably run this again with some tweaks (some of my own, some of players’ suggestions). I like the concept. I did ask for help with balance, and had no takers, so in the end really it’s all of your own faults :P.
Takeaway: I hope you all had fun at least. I’m far from the best balancer of games, but I try to make them fun and involved for everyone anyways. The public mafia calls made this a lot less interactive than I would have liked , so I honestly consider this particular game a failure. Still, it was nice to get the gang back together, so to speak. It’d be nice to keep a steady stream of games going.
One thing I started to become paranoid about in the latter days of the game (when we weren't getting as many declared seers) was the idea that if you got killed while holding a rotating special role, that role would permanently stop getting given to new people.
While it might not have worked out as you planned, enjoy that you made several of us go into paranoia circles due to your reputation alone, kime. :P
It just means that I can boost or reduce the chance of a power vote by 10%. So like I can say "Reduce Beta Seer" and the seers votes cost 10% less. It was useless last night when all votes were pretty much seers.
Worth some consideration considering Chamberlain was mafia, and def a liar
Grunt's Ghosts, are you a neutral, or a special villager?
Not saying you should be the vote target, I'm just curious about your deal!
There's probably one or two folk like enlightenbum who did some irrelevant votes
regarding day 1 guards and such.
Posts
Host CD'd the question on thralls, millers and conversions, but clarified that death results are accurate.
Paranoid thought... but conversions could potentially put the kibosh on an all-seer strategy. Because we can't actually trust the seers to be correct about a target being green, right? Or that seers that called a target red aren't themselves red? One convert a day would offset one vote kill a day.
No conversions
Chamberlain
Seer
Seer
Seer
Chamberlain
Seer
Seer
Seer
Great to discuss and have theories, but you don't ignore the ability to have 100% vote accuracy in this game unless you got something substantial to put up.
If it's too good to be true, well, milk it until it ain't. Any village would use this to make best use of the vote in any game they could.
It's just a theory.
It could also be bunnies.
Chamberlain
Seer
Seer
Seer
seer
seer
!chamberlain
seer
seer
!chamberlain
seer
seer
!chamberlain-su
Does my vote matter?
It feels like a drop in the bucket-su
seer
seer
seer[/b]
seer
seer
seer
Seer
Seer
Seer
[/quote]
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
Another one bites the dust. This seems to be going well. I wonder what will be in store tomorrow!
And on the plus side, it's easy to prepare everything to get fast results!
Dead List
chamberlain - The Vote
Infidel - The Mafia
Preda - Inactivus
@Brody you missed the vote today, you've been warned.
PMs going out, please be quiet about the game. Shouldn't be long.
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
*shrugs, offers raised hand for a high five, but confusedly?*
oh Moridin, you're also welcome to join us at the Pro Thug Ganker's table
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
Plus...the outed mafia really haven’t argued their case at all, so again doesn’t seem like it’s false seering.
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
Seer
Seer
Seer
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
Let me know if I missed someone!
Worth some consideration considering Chamberlain was mafia, and def a liar
Grunt's Ghosts, are you a neutral, or a special villager?
Not saying you should be the vote target, I'm just curious about your deal!
There's probably one or two folk like enlightenbum who did some irrelevant votes
regarding day 1 guards and such.
Seer
Seer
Seer
Seer
Seer
Seer
Megafrost because he's been talking about not going 3 seer for a couple days now it seems and that's really the only thing that's happened other than seer calls.
I can see were it might look like I was suggesting that.
Seer
Seer
Seer
Megafrost is fine if we have no other results.
Sorry if unclear.
Seer
Seer
Seer
Megafrost
Phone voting, In a car and not sure if I'll be home by vote close, and not sure if the day got extended, I can go with this set.
Although the last remaining mafia member had been scouted out and so was doomed, they could take some pleasure in the fact that this was, at best, a farce of democracy :P
JPants was the last mafia, and was successfully seered last night. His fate is sealed.
VILLAGE VICTORY
My thoughts on the game in the spoiler.
Balance: This game obviously wasn’t balanced well. I think late-game mafia may have actually tilted the balance more their way if they could make it there on relatively even footing. That would be hard anyways, but when your villagers are on point Seering mafia, well… The mafia had one of the Special roles (coincidentally) the first four days, which only left two village Specials. The mafia also had an every-other-day Roleblock (which could directly target one of the Specials, no guessing needed), which meant that in the first 2 days, there were only 3 Village Seerings (not 6, the worst-case scenario for the mafia). And of those 3, two randomly seered a mafia. Not only that, but the mafia lost their Roleblocker early, which meant that they couldn’t reduce power the third night. The third night, again, 1/2 Village Seerings hit mafia. (After that it was downhill, since the pool of unseered players shrank faster than deaths.)
That’s pretty rough . Just to add insult to injury, the first (and only) time the mafia Roleblocked someone, that player was inactive with their ability anyways, so it turned out to be completely wasted. 50% chance the village had no Special abilities used that first night, but instead it just started the bloodbath.
I did really enjoy multiple comments of "surely this can't be the case, it's too easy/doesn't make any balance sense." Oh how you underestimate me
Seriously, that village accuracy: Two out of the first three seerings, and 3 out of the first 5 seerings were mafia. By that point, the pool of players was still decently sizeable. Villagers were just good at pinpointing mafia :P
Rotating Specials: One thing that is obvious to me in retrospect, but wasn’t when planning, was the value that the village gained from having no permanent specials, in that all the results could just be public for no loss. I kind of think the mafia should have just stayed quiet. It’s not like they gained anything from speaking out! And that just gave the village more targets to cross off. But it’s hard to tell if that’s just hindsight speaking or not.
Non-rotating specials: I added a couple other non-rotating specials to the village just for fun. I didn't intend for them to impact the game much. Grunt's Ghosts' ability turned out to be completely worthless 'cause I messed up the (super simple) math when planning this out. Oops? 38thDoe's (prevent a player from being one of the three main Specials) would have been potentially useful if the Specials actually had more concrete value and weren't just essentially public seerings.
Mafia abilities: The mafia had the ability to increase their chances and decrease others’ chances of becoming Specials. They could also manipulate the Specials’ public ability votes to a degree, not that that ever mattered this game. If they made it to lategame on decent footing, when the village started to mix up the votes beyond just “Seer all the time,” I think they could have stolen enough vigs to make something happen. Maybe.
The Triple SeersThe triple Seering strategy was the big thing I was concerned about in planning. I thought it was going to be overpowered, and thought of a few easy tweaks to maybe combat that. But then some of the pre-game talk involved voting for other abilities, and in the end I figured I would go with this and see what happened. I was thinking that since the village would probably only get 1 Seering half the time anyways, it would maybe be OK. Turns out you only need 1 Seering a night if you always hit mafia and don’t have to worry about dying the next day :P
The other aspect was that only seering made the game last longer (theoretically), which generally benefits the village anyways.
Future games: If we have gaps of games in the future, I’ll probably run this again with some tweaks (some of my own, some of players’ suggestions). I like the concept. I did ask for help with balance, and had no takers, so in the end really it’s all of your own faults :P.
Takeaway: I hope you all had fun at least. I’m far from the best balancer of games, but I try to make them fun and involved for everyone anyways. The public mafia calls made this a lot less interactive than I would have liked , so I honestly consider this particular game a failure. Still, it was nice to get the gang back together, so to speak. It’d be nice to keep a steady stream of games going.
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
While it might not have worked out as you planned, enjoy that you made several of us go into paranoia circles due to your reputation alone, kime. :P
Liar?!
Well, maybe lies of omission.