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[Hearthstone] THIS THREAD IS OLD AND FUNKY! POST IN THE NEW ONE!

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Posts

  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    Yilias wrote: »
    Can a control Mage shell even function without IB?

    Depends on what comes out in the next two expansions until standard rotates.

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  • 3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Who cares, that card is a design nightmare that should never have existed to begin with.

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    Yilias wrote: »
    Can a control Mage shell even function without IB?

    I mean, I'd think so? The control/grinder mage types of lists seem either not to run it, or to run only one (presumably to deal with other OTK sorts of decks)

    NREqxl5.jpg
    it was the smallest on the list but
    Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
  • GoodKingJayIIIGoodKingJayIII They wanna get my gold on the ceilingRegistered User regular
    3clipse wrote: »
    Who cares, that card is a design nightmare that should never have existed to begin with.

    I’d like to see other archetypes besides aggressive and tempo mages, and ice block has largely allowed that to work, especially when healbot rotated.

    But I agree that it’s opened the door to a lot of degenerate combos and given the trajectory of the game it’s time for it to go.

    Battletag: Threeve#1501; PSN: Threeve703; Steam: 3eeve
  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    Exactly. If your win condition is to run people out of threats then you need a way to not die to combo decks, which is either armor or IB.

    Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224 - Riot: Yilias #moc
  • 3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Yilias wrote: »
    Exactly. If your win condition is to run people out of threats then you need a way to not die to combo decks, which is either armor or IB.

    Because combo decks should not exist in a game with zero off-turn interaction, yes.

  • LucedesLucedes might be real Registered User regular
    i enjoy degenerate combo decks, but not when they have a control shell.

  • RozRoz Boss of InternetRegistered User regular
    edited November 2017
    3clipse wrote: »
    Who cares, that card is a design nightmare that should never have existed to begin with.

    Disagree, it's unique and flavorful design space. But it should not be in the "main" game forever. It has overstayed it's welcome.

    Roz on
  • PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    Phyphor wrote: »
    Kolosus wrote: »
    I still think Exodia mage shouldn't be allowed to be a thing.

    Is it really worse than all the other OTKs?

    Ice Block(s(s(s)))

    Which is why it's such an effective deck... oh wait. I actually can't remember that last time I lost to a quest mage

  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    I do think its weird that Worgen Warrior was banned but there are plenty of other OTKs.

    Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224 - Riot: Yilias #moc
  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    Yilias wrote: »
    I do think its weird that Worgen Warrior was banned but there are plenty of other OTKs.

    What was the Worgen Warrior nerf again? If that was the Charge nerf that takes out a ton of potential OTKs, not just the Worgen one.

    9uiytxaqj2j0.jpg
  • RozRoz Boss of InternetRegistered User regular
    Yilias wrote: »
    I do think its weird that Worgen Warrior was banned but there are plenty of other OTKs.

    Sometimes it really does come to down to how developers and the community at large react to the offender. Sometimes, whether justified or not, the community will despise a particular combo even when another similar one is allowed to flourish.

  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    iirc Worgen Warrior also went off a lot faster on average than other OTK decks, closer to old Miracle Rogue.

    9uiytxaqj2j0.jpg
  • PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    Yilias wrote: »
    I do think its weird that Worgen Warrior was banned but there are plenty of other OTKs.

    I doubt any OTKs will get hit unless they become dominant and are easy to execute. Exodia mage is just a bad deck, like the paladin DK OTK. Cool and feels bad when you lose to them, but ineffective. Highlander priest is probably the closest to an actually good OTK deck now

  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    Phyphor wrote: »
    Yilias wrote: »
    I do think its weird that Worgen Warrior was banned but there are plenty of other OTKs.

    I doubt any OTKs will get hit unless they become dominant and are easy to execute. Exodia mage is just a bad deck, like the paladin DK OTK. Cool and feels bad when you lose to them, but ineffective. Highlander priest is probably the closest to an actually good OTK deck now

    The thing is Ice Block has historically enabled good OTK decks (primarily various flavors of Freeze Mage, although there have been moments of the meta in recent times where Waygate Mage was a good and popular deck), and as long as it's in the meta it threatens to support future Mage OTK decks. And it favors Combo way more than Control Mage because it's only really good if you can win the game in the span of the extra turn or two it buys you.

    9uiytxaqj2j0.jpg
  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    give control mage decks actual good control tools and there won't be any problems when they inevitably remove ice block, imo

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    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular

    That Secret Mage deck I posted last page seems to absolutely destroy Quest Mage. My second last game before hitting rank 5 was against a Quest Mage, and he or she dropped FOUR Ice Blocks. I still killed him or her on turn eleven or so, after their Exodia failed to Exodia (thank you, Spellbender). And I was sitting behind an Ice Block myself, with another in hand. My final boss for rank 5 was a Jade Druid, and that was an absolute curb-stomping. They would have been dead on turn 6 if they'd started with 40 health. I've also been winning the majority of my games against Razakus Priest, Big Priest, Zoo Warlock and Tempo Rogue.

    It was by far my easiest climb to rank 5 that I've had so far. Basically, I feel like I had no weak matchups with this deck. Secretkeeper, Ethereal Arcanist, and Golakka Crawler have all been fantastic at putting on enough early pressure to win games on their own, while Ice Block is doing work to survive close games and provide a long term secret that isn't triggered. Frost Lich Jaina is probably the weakest non-standard card in the list, but she's won me games too. Still: she's probably not worth crafting if you want to build the deck and don't have her - a Bonemare or Firelands Portal would probably suffice.

    Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
  • BeastwizardBeastwizard Registered User regular
    I don't give a shit what anyone else says, Worgen Warrior was a great deck that was a blast to pilot, and it didn't warrant the nerf it got. Let's see, you had to have the exact combo in hand, which was at least five cards IIRC, no taunt on the opposing side, and a tick from Thaurissan. There were and are many combos and archetypes that are way more toxic than Worgen Warrior ever was that never even got half the ban-hammering that deck did. I shed a tear every time someone brings it up.

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    there's current a leeroy/hancho OTK combo deck that plays kinda like worgen warrior; I don't think it sees a ton of play on ladder though

    NREqxl5.jpg
    it was the smallest on the list but
    Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    Worgen Warrior regularly killed through 10 points of taunt.

    9uiytxaqj2j0.jpg
  • hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    I think whether the combo is evergreen or not is a big part of it. Blizz does not seem to oppose OTKs in principle; just not OTKs that are going to jeopardize their meta for the long-term.

  • Marty81Marty81 Registered User regular
    Also "design space"

  • CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    Honestly I can't remember the last time I played a game that didn't have giant patches because you had to redownload every changed file. You're just going to accept that developers aren't going to bother writing patches when most people have fairly fast internet.

  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    Coinage wrote: »
    Honestly I can't remember the last time I played a game that didn't have giant patches

    I thought this was a comment on Keleseth decks for a moment...

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  • DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    i was going to be so pissed if I didn't get that card

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  • IlpalaIlpala Just this guy, y'know TexasRegistered User regular
    So...is Leeroy/Shadowstep bugged? Cuz I had it for lethal against a pirate warrior just now and...the game just flat wouldn't let me attack with Leeroy the second time. Green outline. Couldn't click him.

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  • Sir FabulousSir Fabulous Malevolent Squid God Registered User regular
    Ilpala wrote: »
    So...is Leeroy/Shadowstep bugged? Cuz I had it for lethal against a pirate warrior just now and...the game just flat wouldn't let me attack with Leeroy the second time. Green outline. Couldn't click him.

    Just played a test game and nope, worked fine for me.

    Might have been a connection issue?

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  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    edited November 2017
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    That Secret Mage deck I posted last page seems to absolutely destroy Quest Mage.

    How the fuck is this deck supposed to win?

    EDIT: I've got exactly one win with it, against a priest who lead off with Goldshire Footman and Mindblast ... Everyone else gets wide boards that this deck just can't recover from. A single Bonemare is death.

    Elvenshae on
  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    That Secret Mage deck I posted last page seems to absolutely destroy Quest Mage.

    How the fuck is this deck supposed to win?

    I'm 2-2 so far, but from what I can tell you gotta mulligan hard for 1-2 drops and pray they don't drop Keleseth on 2.

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  • PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    That Secret Mage deck I posted last page seems to absolutely destroy Quest Mage.

    How the fuck is this deck supposed to win?

    EDIT: I've got exactly one win with it, against a priest who lead off with Goldshire Footman and Mindblast ... Everyone else gets wide boards that this deck just can't recover from. A single Bonemare is death.

    I haven't tried it but I assume it's just like any other secret mage, go maximum tempo, try to secret on critical turns

    I run the bonemare/firelands variant

  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    edited November 2017
    Phyphor wrote: »
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    That Secret Mage deck I posted last page seems to absolutely destroy Quest Mage.

    How the fuck is this deck supposed to win?

    EDIT: I've got exactly one win with it, against a priest who lead off with Goldshire Footman and Mindblast ... Everyone else gets wide boards that this deck just can't recover from. A single Bonemare is death.

    I haven't tried it but I assume it's just like any other secret mage, go maximum tempo, try to secret on critical turns

    I run the bonemare/firelands variant

    Yeah that's basically it. Tempo out, drop free/discounted 5/5s and other Big Boys, win via board or burn.

    I play Firebat's Spellbender/Bittertide variant which is super slick: https://hsreplay.net/decks/bLD1Dacg6HMShbHVvGXlYd/

    The whole idea there revolves around dropping Big Boys (like Hydra) and then using Counterspell and Spellbender to protect your board while you push face. And you've got double Meteor for board clear/removal.

    Mull hard for Mana Wyrm, Arcanologist, and Kirin Tor. Curving out a T1 Mana Wyrm into T2 Arcanologist into T3 Kirin Tor+Secret you drew is The Dream Curve. Doesn't always happen but damn it feels good when it does.

    But mostly just Mana Wyrm and Arcanologist. You can keep Valet if you've got nothing else just to play something on T2.

    Don't get too frustrated if you miss your 1 drop, or even 2 drop (it happens....). I've still won games off bad starts like that. The deck has multiple outs and wincons, you can get there eventually.

    Dibby on
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    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
  • PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    I would try spellbender/bittertide... but I'm not sure I want to craft 4 epics for it

    Just ran into a jade druid in arena (that had elemental synergy too). At least 3 jade idols drafted and spreading plague. He got waaay too greedy though and shuffled the first 3 into his deck, only got the jades up to 2/2 before he was dead

  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular
    Dibby wrote: »
    Phyphor wrote: »
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    That Secret Mage deck I posted last page seems to absolutely destroy Quest Mage.

    How the fuck is this deck supposed to win?

    EDIT: I've got exactly one win with it, against a priest who lead off with Goldshire Footman and Mindblast ... Everyone else gets wide boards that this deck just can't recover from. A single Bonemare is death.

    I haven't tried it but I assume it's just like any other secret mage, go maximum tempo, try to secret on critical turns

    I run the bonemare/firelands variant

    Yeah that's basically it. Tempo out, drop free/discounted 5/5s and other Big Boys, win via board or burn.

    I play Firebat's Spellbender/Bittertide variant which is super slick: https://hsreplay.net/decks/bLD1Dacg6HMShbHVvGXlYd/

    The whole idea there revolves around dropping Big Boys (like Hydra) and then using Counterspell and Spellbender to protect your board while you push face. And you've got double Meteor for board clear/removal.

    Mull hard for Mana Wyrm, Arcanologist, and Kirin Tor. Curving out a T1 Mana Wyrm into T2 Arcanologist into T3 Kirin Tor+Secret you drew is The Dream Curve. Doesn't always happen but damn it feels good when it does.

    But mostly just Mana Wyrm and Arcanologist. You can keep Valet if you've got nothing else just to play something on T2.

    Don't get too frustrated if you miss your 1 drop, or even 2 drop (it happens....). I've still won games off bad starts like that. The deck has multiple outs and wincons, you can get there eventually.

    I tried Firebat’s version, early in the season, and it took me from rank 17 to rank 20. I found that I was always starting too far behind, with no early game board presence, and Zoo and Tempo Rogue were able to seize the board way too easily. And then on turn five I could drop a Bittertide, but that’d just make the path to lethal for the other person even easier. Even against Jade/Big Druid I was just too slow putting stats on the board.

    Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
  • Hi I'm Vee!Hi I'm Vee! Formerly VH; She/Her; Is an E X P E R I E N C E Registered User regular
    Hahahah Dane already has a couple great Marin videos, but this one...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INLVXUY_boM

    vRyue2p.png
  • GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    In Wild, rank 21, Asia someone just played the old turn 4 Brann + Coin + keleseth + Shadowstep + keleseth against me. Worked out pretty nice for them, they followed it up with a 6/12 Deathlord on turn 5.

  • azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    I don't think IB is a design nightmare by itself, the idea you could get 4 of them in a game is. They should impliment some kind of 'cooldown' so that when your ice block goes off you cant immediately cast it again the next turn. This would keep it viable but make it more strategic since you would have to arrange freeze effects to cover your cooldown turn without granting several turns in a row of complete immunity which just is not fun.

    Stercus, Stercus, Stercus, Morituri Sum
  • Iron WeaselIron Weasel Dillon! You son of a bitch!Registered User regular
    I'm kicking around on NA with the 80g quest if anyone would like free monies.

    Iron Weasel #1268

    Currently Playing:
    The Division, Warframe (XB1)
    GT: Tanith 6227
  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    azith28 wrote: »
    I don't think IB is a design nightmare by itself, the idea you could get 4 of them in a game is. They should impliment some kind of 'cooldown' so that when your ice block goes off you cant immediately cast it again the next turn. This would keep it viable but make it more strategic since you would have to arrange freeze effects to cover your cooldown turn without granting several turns in a row of complete immunity which just is not fun.

    Appropriately enough, using Ice Block in WoW gives you a debuff that prevents you from recasting it for half a minute or so.

    Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224 - Riot: Yilias #moc
  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular
    I'm kicking around on NA with the 80g quest if anyone would like free monies.

    Iron Weasel #1268

    Thank you!

    It was cool seeing my Secret Mage deck from the other perspective. I think that I curved out pretty well on my side of the board with Shaman, and I just couldn't keep up at all with the continued growing pressure.

    Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
  • Iron WeaselIron Weasel Dillon! You son of a bitch!Registered User regular
    I'm kicking around on NA with the 80g quest if anyone would like free monies.

    Iron Weasel #1268
    UPDATE: I have foisted @Shadowhope upon their own Secret Mage petard!

    Currently Playing:
    The Division, Warframe (XB1)
    GT: Tanith 6227
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