Hoy boy can I imagine the shitstorm they would create if we even tried to give them money they didn't work for.
You'd be surprised.
They won't take assistance that we also give to minorities. The problem is that they're unwilling to accept that their position in the world is changing, and quite a few of the small towns in these regoins just don't have a rationale for existing anymore.
give them free money, free healthcare, free school, free breakfast for children, jobs with high wages and good benefits
this is not a philosophical fight, people want material improvements to their lives so give them something to be excited about
And then after they have that stuff they'll turn around and vote for Republicans who promise to take those things away from brown people, because that's all they really care about. That someone is worse off than they are.
if people are gonna turn down free money why would they take a 17 step plan to incrementally increase tax incentives for manufacturing companies
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MayabirdPecking at the keyboardRegistered Userregular
Another election record: Iowa City elected a Sudanese-American woman to the city council, very likely the first Sudanese immigrant elected to public office in the US. One of Mazahir Salih's goals is to get public transit in the city running on Sundays, because currently it's only six days a week.
Poor white people in rural and semi rural parts of the country aren't all idiots and active bigots. Portraying it that way makes it less likely that they will ever be exposed to ideas that challenge their own limited and honestly rather isolated experience. Granted some of these people aren't ever going to change their mind but giving up on them all as a lost cause is some elitest nonsense imo.
capitalism is real wild in that unemployed folk will literally reject help because they've been convinced they don't deserve it
it's important to stop every now and then and think about how incredibly fucked up that is
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turtleantGunpla Dadis the best.Registered Userregular
I guess this is the part where I reiterate that there are a lot of left leaning people or undecided people in rural areas, just not a majority. Deciding policy based only on the shitty racists isn't fair to the people stuck living near them. And ignoring those people when making decisions about federal aid and such is a great way to make them not want to vote because they feel completely alienated by all sides.
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masterofmetroidHave you ever looked at a worldand seen it as a kind of challenge?Registered Userregular
edited November 2017
There isn't some magical force in impoverished areas that forces people to believe racist narratives any more than there is one that lets them understand that getting out of it is not really in their control
Just fight for policies that actually do good in the world and forget about pathologizing areas that have lived under constant material efforts to exploit them as inherently less moral than you
Some people will listen, some people won't, you get nothing if you don't even fucking try
as someone with a bit of a southern accent living in well, the south, it is incredibly hurtful and shitty when people cast a wide net describing my entire home as a bunch of backwards, racist, homophobic idiots - doubly so when I see sentiments about the poor people here getting what they deserve for voting for Trump, when I'm a full blown fuckin' socialist and also watching some of my closet friends and loved ones cutting out everything in their lives but electricity so they can afford to feed their kid and working two jobs.
It wasn't to say that the next step was "and so we shouldn't do any of that, because fuck those people." If that was the implication taken away from my statement then I apologize.
We should absolutely do all those things, just because it's the right thing to do and no one should live in a situation like what is going on in those areas. But we shouldn't expect a thank you or a change in voting pattern, because they will never admit that "liberal" policies helped them out and they will definitely never vote for a Democrat.
also - i grew up deeply deeply religious and had a ton of homophobic/transphobic/racist views instilled in me and outgrew them as I got older, people living here can change and it may be frustrating and slow but it happens. Everyone in my social circle is moderately to far left and like 50% of them grew up here with me.
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PwnanObrienHe's right, life sucks.Registered Userregular
So it turns out that a larger than expected turnout of younger voters is what drove a lot of this. Not too surprising. Back in early 2016 GOP pollster Frank Luntz was pointing out how young people are terrifyingly progressive. You've seen years of the Republicans trying to vilify and fearmonger about teenage SJWs on Tumblr and now that crowd can legally vote. The old men on Fox News are right about one thing, there is a culture war. The thing they don't want to admit is that they're not going to win.
So it turns out that a larger than expected turnout of younger voters is what drove a lot of this. Not too surprising. Back in early 2016 GOP pollster Frank Luntz was pointing out how young people are terrifyingly progressive. You've seen years of the Republicans trying to vilify and fearmonger about teenage SJWs on Tumblr and now that crowd can legally vote. The old men on Fox News are right about one thing, there is a culture war. The thing they don't want to admit is that they're not going to win.
I mean if they blow up the world first...
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PwnanObrienHe's right, life sucks.Registered Userregular
So it turns out that a larger than expected turnout of younger voters is what drove a lot of this. Not too surprising. Back in early 2016 GOP pollster Frank Luntz was pointing out how young people are terrifyingly progressive. You've seen years of the Republicans trying to vilify and fearmonger about teenage SJWs on Tumblr and now that crowd can legally vote. The old men on Fox News are right about one thing, there is a culture war. The thing they don't want to admit is that they're not going to win.
I mean if they blow up the world first...
Alternatively they can write pithy articles about how Millenials are killing the GOP with their avocado toast and Hamilton musicals.
also - i grew up deeply deeply religious and had a ton of homophobic/transphobic/racist views instilled in me and outgrew them as I got older, people living here can change and it may be frustrating and slow but it happens. Everyone in my social circle is moderately to far left and like 50% of them grew up here with me.
when you say outgrowing those beliefs the people in that article, and most like it, are all much older than you are. they're middle aged and elderly. your experience isn't going to be the same. most people around here acknowledge that a lot of us were kind of shitty people when we were younger, but the brain changes a lot going from 15 to 30. when you're 60? not so much.
also - i grew up deeply deeply religious and had a ton of homophobic/transphobic/racist views instilled in me and outgrew them as I got older, people living here can change and it may be frustrating and slow but it happens. Everyone in my social circle is moderately to far left and like 50% of them grew up here with me.
when you say outgrowing those beliefs the people in that article, and most like it, are all much older than you are. they're middle aged and elderly. your experience isn't going to be the same. most people around here acknowledge that a lot of us were kind of shitty people when we were younger, but the brain changes a lot going from 15 to 30. when you're 60? not so much.
I mean, I've seen the beliefs my parents and extended family hold shift pretty radically even in their 50s and 60s
Admittedly they weren't starting from the farthest right and deepest held racist beliefs like the ones in the article, but more exposure to different people and viewpoints through cultural shifts as well as just trying to have conversations that challenge their viewpoints over the years, comparing and contrasting their life experiences with those of others has done a lot, I think
It really requires a good relationship with whoever you're trying to teach, though, and it's obviously not going to work for everyone, but political and social stances aren't necessarily as ingrained as it is tempting to think. They just don't change quickly.
So dont expect to make many gains in the dark red areas.
Living in rural PA as a leftist fuckin sucks, for so many reasons.
The overwhelming redness
Watching where you grew up slowly die
Being trapped there because of the economy
Watching people bring all this shit on themselves over and over
People in the two big Ps lumping you in with the people they hate for voting R and wishing you would disappear
I don't think there actually is any way to fix rural PA at this point.
My whole county basically revolves around a single factory for construction lifts. If that place ever shuts down (and it'll happen eventually, there's been rumblings about the whole thing going over seas for years) it will be a catastrophe. It's basically the only place that pays a living wage, other than the hospital, in the whole county.
Dunno if you played Night in the Woods, but a lot of people have pegged the town it takes place in as rural PA, especially with the creator being a native.
It...touches on a few of those.
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turtleantGunpla Dadis the best.Registered Userregular
So dont expect to make many gains in the dark red areas.
Living in rural PA as a leftist fuckin sucks, for so many reasons.
The overwhelming redness
Watching where you grew up slowly die
Being trapped there because of the economy
Watching people bring all this shit on themselves over and over
People in the two big Ps lumping you in with the people they hate for voting R and wishing you would disappear
I don't think there actually is any way to fix rural PA at this point.
My whole county basically revolves around a single factory for construction lifts. If that place ever shuts down (and it'll happen eventually, there's been rumblings about the whole thing going over seas for years) it will be a catastrophe. It's basically the only place that pays a living wage, other than the hospital, in the whole county.
Dunno if you played Night in the Woods, but a lot of people have pegged the town it takes place in as rural PA, especially with the creator being a native.
It...touches on a few of those.
It's my GotY. And yeah, had to take a lotta breaks playing that.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Alabama doesn't vote until December for some reason.
And hey, Roy Moore (yeah, that asshole) who is the R candidate for the Senate replacement has been accused of 'initiating sexual contact with a 14 year old girl when he was 32'
Alabama doesn't vote until December for some reason.
And hey, Roy Moore (yeah, that asshole) who is the R candidate for the Senate replacement has been accused of 'initiating sexual contact with a 14 year old girl when he was 32'
Alabama doesn't vote until December for some reason.
And hey, Roy Moore (yeah, that asshole) who is the R candidate for the Senate replacement has been accused of 'initiating sexual contact with a 14 year old girl when he was 32'
Alabama doesn't vote until December for some reason.
And hey, Roy Moore (yeah, that asshole) who is the R candidate for the Senate replacement has been accused of 'initiating sexual contact with a 14 year old girl when he was 32'
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I know about that.
I just don't know why it's in December and not November.
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
Posts
this is not a philosophical fight, people want material improvements to their lives so give them something to be excited about
You'd be surprised.
They won't take assistance that we also give to minorities. The problem is that they're unwilling to accept that their position in the world is changing, and quite a few of the small towns in these regoins just don't have a rationale for existing anymore.
And then after they have that stuff they'll turn around and vote for Republicans who promise to take those things away from brown people, because that's all they really care about. That someone is worse off than they are.
Because the latter s going to the "right" (read: white) people.
it's important to stop every now and then and think about how incredibly fucked up that is
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Just fight for policies that actually do good in the world and forget about pathologizing areas that have lived under constant material efforts to exploit them as inherently less moral than you
Some people will listen, some people won't, you get nothing if you don't even fucking try
what are you going to do. these communities are literally dying as all the younger people OD. no one has the answer because there is no answer
We should absolutely do all those things, just because it's the right thing to do and no one should live in a situation like what is going on in those areas. But we shouldn't expect a thank you or a change in voting pattern, because they will never admit that "liberal" policies helped them out and they will definitely never vote for a Democrat.
Alternatively they can write pithy articles about how Millenials are killing the GOP with their avocado toast and Hamilton musicals.
when you say outgrowing those beliefs the people in that article, and most like it, are all much older than you are. they're middle aged and elderly. your experience isn't going to be the same. most people around here acknowledge that a lot of us were kind of shitty people when we were younger, but the brain changes a lot going from 15 to 30. when you're 60? not so much.
hardly enough to call it significant, but I hope the party grows in prominence
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I mean, I've seen the beliefs my parents and extended family hold shift pretty radically even in their 50s and 60s
Admittedly they weren't starting from the farthest right and deepest held racist beliefs like the ones in the article, but more exposure to different people and viewpoints through cultural shifts as well as just trying to have conversations that challenge their viewpoints over the years, comparing and contrasting their life experiences with those of others has done a lot, I think
It really requires a good relationship with whoever you're trying to teach, though, and it's obviously not going to work for everyone, but political and social stances aren't necessarily as ingrained as it is tempting to think. They just don't change quickly.
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it's the last straw for my relationship with them - I'm just gonna quietly minimize how much time I spend talking to them
not like they ever listen to or respect me anyways :rotate:
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that depends on whether or not the local news affiliate is run by warlocks
Hmmmmm
Dunno if you played Night in the Woods, but a lot of people have pegged the town it takes place in as rural PA, especially with the creator being a native.
It...touches on a few of those.
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Fuck Joe Manchin
It's my GotY. And yeah, had to take a lotta breaks playing that.
And hey, Roy Moore (yeah, that asshole) who is the R candidate for the Senate replacement has been accused of 'initiating sexual contact with a 14 year old girl when he was 32'
https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/woman-says-roy-moore-initiated-sexual-encounter-when-she-was-14-he-was-32/2017/11/09/1f495878-c293-11e7-afe9-4f60b5a6c4a0_story.html?utm_term=.84ecc80da2f7
It would be nice to live in a world where I could feel confident that this would cost him the election
He'll be elected
'cause it's a special election for Jeff Sessions' seat.
I just don't know why it's in December and not November.
(thread)
Yes, they openly admit they'd rather vote for a (hypothetically) proven child rapist than a Democratic candidate.
Actually she said quite a bit more than that happened.
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