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[Destiny 2] Shaxx Me Outside How Bou Dah

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Posts

  • SurfpossumSurfpossum A nonentity trying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered User regular
    Chanus wrote: »
    Nobody is mad they throttled XP. They're mad they hid that they were doing so. If they had showed the proper numbers from the start this would be a non-issue.

    that's not entirely clear from the arguments but it is a position i can agree to

    though i'm not mad personally

    I just think it's amusing that when the first videos came up about this I said that it felt like the first reddit guy was trying to make it seem like Bungie was operating in bad faith and that the videos were inconclusive; they showed the UI being wonky and the tests that confirmed the throttling were much more thorough... and lo and behold they were acting in bad faith by hiding the XP throttling.
    Ehhhh given that the XP bar chunks on each fresh XP batch rather than incrementing the new total and smoothly filling to that, I suspect the display stuff is not the most carefully designed.

    But they also don't explicitly say that it was an error, just that the values will now be consistent, so it could have been intentional.

  • tastydonutstastydonuts Registered User regular
    Right. The values that get put into the updates is what they're addressing, not the UI animation.

    A person can still get 3 bumps of XP in a short amount of time from different sources and it may still do that thing.

    “I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
  • MuffinatronMuffinatron Registered User regular
    If Bungie had been honest about this whole XP thing from the beginning, there definitely would've been complaints but people would've just accepted it eventually.

    This massive reaction is purely down to Bungie being, arguably, deliberately deceptive about the whole thing. They only commented on it after pcgamer published an article about it, not at all during the week or so prior where the subreddit had already figured out something was wrong.

    PSN: Holy-Promethium
  • SurfpossumSurfpossum A nonentity trying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered User regular
    edited November 2017
    Right. The values that get put into the updates is what they're addressing, not the UI animation.

    A person can still get 3 bumps of XP in a short amount of time from different sources and it may still do that thing.
    Yeah, I'm saying that the XP bar's behavior is evidence that they're not overly concerned with that UI aspect, making it more likely that nobody bothered to notice or check or ask why the XP numbers shown weren't being scaled.

    Since a more thoughtful* implementation would have the yellow portion update on XP gain and have the orange portion fill at a constant rate.

    * I guess the current way lets you briefly see the "new" batch of XP but eh.
    If Bungie had been honest about this whole XP thing from the beginning, there definitely would've been complaints but people would've just accepted it eventually.

    This massive reaction is purely down to Bungie being, arguably, deliberately deceptive about the whole thing. They only commented on it after pcgamer published an article about it, not at all during the week or so prior where the subreddit had already figured out something was wrong.
    They were obviously reviewing the system as a whole (hence the actual change rather than just fixing the displayed values) so any comment they made prior to that decision would have just been a placeholder saying they're reviewing things.

    Expecting them (especially during Thanksgiving) to respond to this sort of stuff within days is a bit much, I think.

    Surfpossum on
  • Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    Or they could have just been honest from the start?

  • tastydonutstastydonuts Registered User regular
    Surfpossum wrote: »
    Right. The values that get put into the updates is what they're addressing, not the UI animation.

    A person can still get 3 bumps of XP in a short amount of time from different sources and it may still do that thing.
    Yeah, I'm saying that the XP bar's behavior is evidence that they're not overly concerned with that UI aspect, making it more likely that nobody bothered to notice or check or ask why the XP numbers shown weren't being scaled.

    Since a more thoughtful* implementation would have the yellow portion update on XP gain and have the orange portion fill at a constant rate.

    * I guess the current way lets you briefly see the "new" batch of XP but eh.
    If Bungie had been honest about this whole XP thing from the beginning, there definitely would've been complaints but people would've just accepted it eventually.

    This massive reaction is purely down to Bungie being, arguably, deliberately deceptive about the whole thing. They only commented on it after pcgamer published an article about it, not at all during the week or so prior where the subreddit had already figured out something was wrong.
    They were obviously reviewing the system as a whole (hence the actual change rather than just fixing the displayed values) so any comment they made prior to that decision would have just been a placeholder saying they're reviewing things.

    Expecting them (especially during Thanksgiving) to respond to this sort of stuff within days is a bit much, I think.

    Yep, if not showing the correct numbers at some arbitrary, internally decided point was intended behaviour then yeah... testing that out would be kind of fruitless.

    “I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
  • ObiFettObiFett Use the Force As You WishRegistered User regular
    Surfpossum wrote: »
    Right. The values that get put into the updates is what they're addressing, not the UI animation.

    A person can still get 3 bumps of XP in a short amount of time from different sources and it may still do that thing.
    Yeah, I'm saying that the XP bar's behavior is evidence that they're not overly concerned with that UI aspect, making it more likely that nobody bothered to notice or check or ask why the XP numbers shown weren't being scaled.

    Since a more thoughtful* implementation would have the yellow portion update on XP gain and have the orange portion fill at a constant rate.

    * I guess the current way lets you briefly see the "new" batch of XP but eh.

    I guarantee that Bungie is fully aware of every single part of their UI and specifically likely "overly concerned" with any part of it that has to do with earning Bright Engrams. Every part of that UI, from the chunking bar filling to the numbers popping up to the satisfying screen notification that you've earned a BE are all carefully crafted to hit important parts of Behavioral Psychology and keep you coming back.
    Bungie employed eye-tracking technology to document where players looked, they recorded what players said — explicit or otherwise — and gave players a button to press when they felt something in the game worked. So, while Bungie employs dastardly tricks like time-gating the game’s most fun content or requiring a slog of a faction reputation grind, the developer’s real trick is it psychoanalyzed — and recorded — players to find out what works best.

    They are most definitely "overly concerned" with that exp bar and it was very likely working as intended.

  • SurfpossumSurfpossum A nonentity trying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered User regular
    Or they could have just been honest from the start?
    I agree that the scaled numbers should have been displayed.

    That they intentionally weren't is an assumption that many feel is obvious.

  • DiannaoChongDiannaoChong Registered User regular
    edited November 2017
    a
    Or they could have just been honest from the start?

    Given their history of updates and communication with everyone, this was never an option in their opinion.

    If anyone asked something like this before destiny 2 came out, I would have instructed them on the following: They see this game as a highly curated (by them alone) experience, and they will hide or show whatever they want to/from us and we will just have to except that. It's extreme to the point where you will be afraid when they say they are going to address something, because instead of listening to reason, they will most likely just break it further.

    They weren't going to turn off the faction rally in response, but I and others around here are surprised something absolutely terrible didn't happen in response to people farming the lost sector exploit. Now, with how long this response is taking, I am wondering if its because they are all so under the gun to finish the next set of content they don't have the time.

    DiannaoChong on
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  • ErevarErevar The Nounverber Registered User regular
    Bungie really shot themselves in the foot with the Clarion Call event, too. Makes you wonder about their aptitude if they deliberately throttle XP gains, but then create a week-long event that's all about getting double XP while grouped with your clanmates. Maybe they were trying to hide the throttling in plain sight and hope nobody would point it out?

    KkrouBB.png
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  • SurfpossumSurfpossum A nonentity trying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered User regular
    ObiFett wrote: »
    Surfpossum wrote: »
    Right. The values that get put into the updates is what they're addressing, not the UI animation.

    A person can still get 3 bumps of XP in a short amount of time from different sources and it may still do that thing.
    Yeah, I'm saying that the XP bar's behavior is evidence that they're not overly concerned with that UI aspect, making it more likely that nobody bothered to notice or check or ask why the XP numbers shown weren't being scaled.

    Since a more thoughtful* implementation would have the yellow portion update on XP gain and have the orange portion fill at a constant rate.

    * I guess the current way lets you briefly see the "new" batch of XP but eh.

    I guarantee that Bungie is fully aware of every single part of their UI and specifically likely "overly concerned" with any part of it that has to do with earning Bright Engrams. Every part of that UI, from the chunking bar filling to the numbers popping up to the satisfying screen notification that you've earned a BE are all carefully crafted to hit important parts of Behavioral Psychology and keep you coming back.
    Bungie employed eye-tracking technology to document where players looked, they recorded what players said — explicit or otherwise — and gave players a button to press when they felt something in the game worked. So, while Bungie employs dastardly tricks like time-gating the game’s most fun content or requiring a slog of a faction reputation grind, the developer’s real trick is it psychoanalyzed — and recorded — players to find out what works best.

    They are most definitely "overly concerned" with that exp bar and it was very likely working as intended.
    I think you vastly overestimate the ability of developers to avoid mistakes, their access to spooky data notwithstanding.

  • ObiFettObiFett Use the Force As You WishRegistered User regular
    edited November 2017
    Surfpossum wrote: »
    ObiFett wrote: »
    Surfpossum wrote: »
    Right. The values that get put into the updates is what they're addressing, not the UI animation.

    A person can still get 3 bumps of XP in a short amount of time from different sources and it may still do that thing.
    Yeah, I'm saying that the XP bar's behavior is evidence that they're not overly concerned with that UI aspect, making it more likely that nobody bothered to notice or check or ask why the XP numbers shown weren't being scaled.

    Since a more thoughtful* implementation would have the yellow portion update on XP gain and have the orange portion fill at a constant rate.

    * I guess the current way lets you briefly see the "new" batch of XP but eh.

    I guarantee that Bungie is fully aware of every single part of their UI and specifically likely "overly concerned" with any part of it that has to do with earning Bright Engrams. Every part of that UI, from the chunking bar filling to the numbers popping up to the satisfying screen notification that you've earned a BE are all carefully crafted to hit important parts of Behavioral Psychology and keep you coming back.
    Bungie employed eye-tracking technology to document where players looked, they recorded what players said — explicit or otherwise — and gave players a button to press when they felt something in the game worked. So, while Bungie employs dastardly tricks like time-gating the game’s most fun content or requiring a slog of a faction reputation grind, the developer’s real trick is it psychoanalyzed — and recorded — players to find out what works best.

    They are most definitely "overly concerned" with that exp bar and it was very likely working as intended.
    I think you vastly overestimate the ability of developers to avoid mistakes, their access to spooky data notwithstanding.

    And I think you underestimate how aware Bungie is of every single part of their game. Specifically anything UI related. Even more so if it relates to the Eververse.

    edit: Bungie is the group that had heatmaps for every single kill and death location in Halo. They had gobs of data for everything in Destiny 1 with their own awesome looking control room for everything Destiny related. They are top notch developers when it comes to tracking user experience and data collection in their own games.

    ObiFett on
  • tastydonutstastydonuts Registered User regular
    edited November 2017
    Erevar wrote: »
    Bungie really shot themselves in the foot with the Clarion Call event, too. Makes you wonder about their aptitude if they deliberately throttle XP gains, but then create a week-long event that's all about getting double XP while grouped with your clanmates. Maybe they were trying to hide the throttling in plain sight and hope nobody would point it out?

    Kind of don't think they care. Had that analysis not been picked up, it would have continued to be ignored and the like. They know their audience and their audience will keep playing the game no matter what.

    For all the people outraged by the XP caps, some of whom who will still play and spend...there's a large population of people who don't know anything about it and will keep playing and more importantly, spending on the shop.

    Bungie... is Bungie.

    edit: they also have the advantage of the shady practices that they do being shifted to being "because Activision."

    tastydonuts on
    “I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
  • SurfpossumSurfpossum A nonentity trying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered User regular
    edited November 2017
    ObiFett wrote: »
    Surfpossum wrote: »
    ObiFett wrote: »
    Surfpossum wrote: »
    Right. The values that get put into the updates is what they're addressing, not the UI animation.

    A person can still get 3 bumps of XP in a short amount of time from different sources and it may still do that thing.
    Yeah, I'm saying that the XP bar's behavior is evidence that they're not overly concerned with that UI aspect, making it more likely that nobody bothered to notice or check or ask why the XP numbers shown weren't being scaled.

    Since a more thoughtful* implementation would have the yellow portion update on XP gain and have the orange portion fill at a constant rate.

    * I guess the current way lets you briefly see the "new" batch of XP but eh.

    I guarantee that Bungie is fully aware of every single part of their UI and specifically likely "overly concerned" with any part of it that has to do with earning Bright Engrams. Every part of that UI, from the chunking bar filling to the numbers popping up to the satisfying screen notification that you've earned a BE are all carefully crafted to hit important parts of Behavioral Psychology and keep you coming back.
    Bungie employed eye-tracking technology to document where players looked, they recorded what players said — explicit or otherwise — and gave players a button to press when they felt something in the game worked. So, while Bungie employs dastardly tricks like time-gating the game’s most fun content or requiring a slog of a faction reputation grind, the developer’s real trick is it psychoanalyzed — and recorded — players to find out what works best.

    They are most definitely "overly concerned" with that exp bar and it was very likely working as intended.
    I think you vastly overestimate the ability of developers to avoid mistakes, their access to spooky data notwithstanding.

    And I think you underestimate how aware Bungie is of every single part of their game. Specifically anything UI related. Even more so if it relates to the Eververse.
    Gobs of data don't prevent errors. Look, if engineers can list incorrect dimensions or specifications on equipment upon which literally millions of dollars a day or even lives depend and nobody notices for decades, I think maybe the people at Bungie might not be in complete command of every line of code.

    The demonic supercomputer entity known as Bungie might, but not the people working there.

    e: also, I agree that it's totally possible that they were aware and it was intentional. But it is hardly unthinkable that it was an oversight.

    Surfpossum on
  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    Opty wrote: »
    Nobody is mad they throttled XP. They're mad they hid that they were doing so. If they had showed the proper numbers from the start this would be a non-issue.

    If that were the case then where was the equivalent shitstorm when people figured out chests were being throttled without any form of UI to indicate what was happening? Including apparently affecting Cayde's weekly chests as well? If what you say is true, that people are just mad about the hiding, then those other instances of the same thing would have had equivalent uproars. But that's not true: people are madder about this because they can heap their feelings about loot boxes onto it as well, even though there's no indication this system was put in place because of loot boxes. I'd argue that the same system would have existed if all you got from levelling was still a mote of light, but people have convinced themselves otherwise.
    Because Chests show you exactly what you get when you open it. There's no number crunching to be done, you open a chest and nothing comes out, it's easy to see what's happening.

    And why can't people be upset about lootboxes exactly? Especially in this situation where they directly benefit from sbortchanging XP by selling XP boosters?

    It's fine to be upset as long as you're honest about why you're upset and don't invent boogiemen (Bungiemen?) to be upset at. Like for instance asserting that this was put in so they could sell XP boosters.

  • SirialisSirialis of the Halite Throne. Registered User regular
    edited November 2017
    Yes, this seemingly carefully crafted throttling system with different percentages at certain intervals even for different activities just screams-

    Whoops, coding error.

    Sirialis on
  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Sirialis wrote: »
    I'm still amazed that we havent seen a single QoL improvement yet.

    Like fixing the fucking vault.

    Someone introduced me to DIM last night, and it's like completely different game (item mangement wise)

    Aparently I have a couple of duplicates and an unclaimed exotic engram. Also I no longer need duplicates since I can just move weapons accross instantly.

    Move to New Zealand
    It’s not a very important country most of the time
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  • tastydonutstastydonuts Registered User regular
    Destiny 2 is obviously a socialist experiment wherein the harder you work the harder it works to make sure you only get things as fast as everyone else does.

    “I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
  • Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    edited November 2017
    I dunno, between all the Youtubers and reddit users, I'd say a sizeable portion of the fanbase is intune with and aware of issues hitting the game. Some people don't mind, and it's fine to enjoy Destiny 2. I wasn't obsessed with getting Bright Engrams, it's just the latest in a series of huge letdowns in Destiny 2. I'm a PvP centric player and don't have any reason to log in other than I enjoy playing Trials with the people in Pax Arcadia. No loot incentive, no reason to raid, and now no reason to trust anything Bungie says about mechanics we should all easily grasp. And that they moved so many unique drops from raids, strikes and crucible to the boxes, yeah it really does feel like this whole thing could have been avoided if they just used the Destiny 1 lootbox system.

    They can eat crow and work back from here. They did so with Destiny 1 and came back strong with Taken King. They can do things right again, but why should I buy DLC 1 and 2 when it's more of the same? Why should I be excited for a Raid Lair when I never need to step foot in one to hit Max Light?

    Local H Jay on
  • ChanusChanus Harbinger of the Spicy Rooster Apocalypse The Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered User regular
    if i didn't raid with the people i raid with i probably still wouldn't be running the raid

    it sort of really did become about the friendgame because there's nothing else to do

    also i can't just sit by and not get the ps4 clan their engram every week

    Allegedly a voice of reason.
  • SurfpossumSurfpossum A nonentity trying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered User regular
    Sirialis wrote: »
    Yes, this seemingly carefully crafted throttling system with different percentages at certain intervals just screams-

    Whoops, coding error.
    Yes, it does.

    At some point, the XP value needs to get sent to the function that will end up displaying it on the screen. If that XP value is sent to the function without having the scaling applied to it, then it will display the base value rather than the one that's actually added to your XP total.

    Let's take an example:

    You kill a Legionary. This triggers a gain of 75 XP. This value is modified by a number of things (token, clarion type stuff, the throttling system), and has to go to a number of different places (the XP bars, the XP pop-up, your actual XP pool).

    I can think of like three different ways the pop-up number could end up being shown without the modifier. If the modified XP is stored in a new variable, the pop-up might be getting sent the unmodified one. The pop-up function might be called before the modifications are applied. The modifications might be applied temporarily specifically for adding them to the main XP pool.

    I mean, the strongest argument against Bungie being perfect in this area would be the (posited) general unhappiness with the rewards system/endgame, no? If they're so good at this stuff then how come "everyone" is complaining.

  • cncaudatacncaudata Registered User regular
    edited November 2017
    Opty wrote: »
    Nobody is mad they throttled XP. They're mad they hid that they were doing so. If they had showed the proper numbers from the start this would be a non-issue.

    If that were the case then where was the equivalent shitstorm when people figured out chests were being throttled without any form of UI to indicate what was happening? Including apparently affecting Cayde's weekly chests as well? If what you say is true, that people are just mad about the hiding, then those other instances of the same thing would have had equivalent uproars. But that's not true: people are madder about this because they can heap their feelings about loot boxes onto it as well, even though there's no indication this system was put in place because of loot boxes. I'd argue that the same system would have existed if all you got from levelling was still a mote of light, but people have convinced themselves otherwise.

    Um... There have been like 10 reddit threads a week on how stupid the chest cooldown is, or how stupid it is that you can spend glimmer on items that let you farm, but then you can't farm. People are plenty pissed.

    The thing is, the chest cooldown is at most just a crappy gaming experience - it's a footnote in a review, not enough to get journalist and freaking lawmakers involved. The reason the XP shenanigans are a bigger deal is... because of the lootboxes, yes. That's kind of the point! People spent real money to get more XP when it turns out they would not in fact get more XP, whether through boxes for medallions or through buying Pop-tarts.

    cncaudata on
    PSN: Broodax- battle.net: broodax#1163
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Opty wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Opty wrote: »
    Games lie and hide information all the fucking time and no one gives near as big a shit. The only reason why this is a "big deal" and people are crying about being "lied to" is that it's loot box adjacent. Even though it's consistent with them being anti-farming for things that aren't attached to loot boxes, like chests and whatnot, since this time it is affecting loot boxes its suddenly not only considered way more scummy than the exact system functioning elsewhere, but is also determined to be a malicious targeted fleecing of the players instead of an intentional design decision that applies to all of their systems.

    If you want Bungie to communicate more, blowing up bullshit like this way out of proportion surely isn't going to entice them to engage the players as rational actors.

    I mean, yeah. Sorry, was this supposed to be a counter-point?

    When you are throttling XP to encourage people to buy microtransactions, it is different then when you are doing it for some other balance reason. Cause in one fo them you are trying to manipulate people into spending money on your lottery tickets.

    Except they're throttling XP to discourage repetitive farming, the same as they do elsewhere. Might as well go further down the conspiracy hole and declare that all the other opaque throttling they do is a smokescreen to hide their true nefarious intent of tricking people into paying money for loot boxes. I mean to do that you'd have to ignore that an opaque system like that doesn't encourage people to spend money, but why aknowledge that when you can get your rage on?

    But it does encourage people to spend money because it makes Bright Engrams harder to get, therefore encouraging people to spend money to get them. It's not just to discourage repetitive farming, it's to push people towards buying Silver. That you don't know it's happening doesn't matter for this because the fewer bright engrams you get, the higher their perceived value and so the more enticing spending money on them becomes if you really want something.

    You can tell this isn't primarily about repetitive farming by their solution. When they got caught, they didn't just remove the throttling, they doubled the XP needed per level. (as far as we know since it's assumed the original value was 80k but that number seems fairly well established). This alongside the lack of throttling actually makes repetitive farming more encouraged, not less. Since people who farm will see much less of an impact on their bright engram income compared to people who don't know. The amount of stuff you need to do per level is almost doubled for the casual player but only increased slightly for the hardcore farmer.

    So no, this idea of yours doesn't hold water. They care more about keeping the bright engram income of players down then they do about discouraging repetitive farming.


    People were pissed and still are at the chest thing. It's still a fucking bullshit throttling mechanic because it hits you just for playing the game normally. You just hear less about it because the XP thing is sucking up all the air right now cause they hid it and only admitted to it when they got caught.

  • Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    I'm getting whiplash from all the mental gymnastics in here

  • SurfpossumSurfpossum A nonentity trying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered User regular
    Things I think we are largely in agreement on:
    - XP is tuned with the intent to incentivize purchases
    - microtransactions can create problems
    - the displayed XP numbers should have been accurate

    Things I don't agree with:
    - it is unthinkable that Bungie accidentally left the displayed XP numbers unscaled
    - earning XP at a slower rate is an unreasonable change

    Like, the main issue that people have, that the XP system was opaque and the numbers were misleading and all that, I agree with! But a lot of the specifics that people are claiming I find arguable.

  • 3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    I'm getting whiplash from all the mental gymnastics in here

    It never ceases to amaze me how hard people will defend anti-consumer practices for no discernible reason.

  • DodgeBlanDodgeBlan PSN: dodgeblanRegistered User regular
    Surfpossum no one is disagreeing with you that it’s possible that the display discrepancy is a big. People are just saying that because BARz BARZ BARZ dinging your endorphins regularly is undoubtedly (and confirmed by bungie) one of the most refined and polished parts of the game it seems unlikely that it is a bug.

    It’s important for the player experience that completing a public event feels rewarding, so bungie has a huge incentive to make the gain appear to not be a piddly slice on your exp bar.

    It’s also important for monetization that bungie tightly controls the rate it which the most obsessive players get bright engrams.

    It’s very suspicious, wouldn’t you say, that the old implementation perfectly satisfies both these goals?

    HMMMMM

    Read my blog about AMERICA and THE BAY AREA

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Surfpossum wrote: »
    Things I think we are largely in agreement on:
    - XP is tuned with the intent to incentivize purchases
    - microtransactions can create problems
    - the displayed XP numbers should have been accurate

    Things I don't agree with:
    - it is unthinkable that Bungie accidentally left the displayed XP numbers unscaled
    - earning XP at a slower rate is an unreasonable change

    Like, the main issue that people have, that the XP system was opaque and the numbers were misleading and all that, I agree with! But a lot of the specifics that people are claiming I find arguable.

    Earning XP at a slower rate would be fine in isolation. In context it's what establishes the first two points you agree on. It's part and parcel of that.

  • ArteenArteen Adept ValeRegistered User regular
    Arguing whether Bungie was deliberately deceitful or "just" lazy, incompetent and accidentally lied is entirely tangential to the issue.

    They still lied!

  • HugglesHuggles Registered User regular
    I don't think anyone here is defending anti-consumer practices? In fact, I'd go so far to suggest that everyone here thinks the whole situation stinks.

    Some people are suggesting that incompetence is a better explanation than malice.

  • SurfpossumSurfpossum A nonentity trying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered User regular
    DodgeBlan wrote: »
    Surfpossum no one is disagreeing with you that it’s possible that the display discrepancy is a big. People are just saying that because BARz BARZ BARZ dinging your endorphins regularly is undoubtedly (and confirmed by bungie) one of the most refined and polished parts of the game it seems unlikely that it is a bug.

    It’s important for the player experience that completing a public event feels rewarding, so bungie has a huge incentive to make the gain appear to not be a piddly slice on your exp bar.

    It’s also important for monetization that bungie tightly controls the rate it which the most obsessive players get bright engrams.

    It’s very suspicious, wouldn’t you say, that the old implementation perfectly satisfies both these goals?

    HMMMMM
    But it literally did show a piddly slice on the XP bar. That's the whole reason anybody noticed!
    Arteen wrote: »
    Arguing whether Bungie was deliberately deceitful or "just" lazy, incompetent and accidentally lied is entirely tangential to the issue.

    They still lied!
    You... you can't accidentally lie. That's not what lying is!

    I think I'm going to agree that Bungie lied and hid

    the XP buff that decayed after doing Public Events.

  • tastydonutstastydonuts Registered User regular
    edited November 2017
    @GMaster7, save us with a new thread!

    It is your Destiny .... 2 do it!

    edit: forgot there were six GMasters before our current reboot of GMaster.

    tastydonuts on
    “I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
  • DodgeBlanDodgeBlan PSN: dodgeblanRegistered User regular
    Oh then maybe I’m misunderstanding the whole thing then... I thought the controversy was that the numbers changed but the bar didn’t? It’s the other way around?

    Read my blog about AMERICA and THE BAY AREA

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  • SurfpossumSurfpossum A nonentity trying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered User regular
    DodgeBlan wrote: »
    Oh then maybe I’m misunderstanding the whole thing then... I thought the controversy was that the numbers changed but the bar didn’t? It’s the other way around?
    The bar showed the actual amount of XP you gained. The numbers popping up were the unmodified amount that you would have gotten without the throttling triggered by Public Events and the like.

  • MuffinatronMuffinatron Registered User regular
    edited November 2017
    Surfpossum wrote: »
    If Bungie had been honest about this whole XP thing from the beginning, there definitely would've been complaints but people would've just accepted it eventually.

    This massive reaction is purely down to Bungie being, arguably, deliberately deceptive about the whole thing. They only commented on it after pcgamer published an article about it, not at all during the week or so prior where the subreddit had already figured out something was wrong.
    They were obviously reviewing the system as a whole (hence the actual change rather than just fixing the displayed values) so any comment they made prior to that decision would have just been a placeholder saying they're reviewing things.

    Expecting them (especially during Thanksgiving) to respond to this sort of stuff within days is a bit much, I think.

    People were raising it as an issue well before thanksgiving (during the Clarion Call the prior weekend). It was only when pcgamer put up an article the day after thanksgiving that Bungie commented. Thanksgiving as an excuse is completely irrelevant here.

    Muffinatron on
    PSN: Holy-Promethium
  • DodgeBlanDodgeBlan PSN: dodgeblanRegistered User regular
    Okay well I would totally buy that could be a bug then.

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  • ObiFettObiFett Use the Force As You WishRegistered User regular
    DodgeBlan wrote: »
    Oh then maybe I’m misunderstanding the whole thing then... I thought the controversy was that the numbers changed but the bar didn’t? It’s the other way around?

    The numbers were saying it was a big amount of exp that people were gaining, yet the bar was showing the small reduced amount. It couldn't have been the reverse because if the bar was showing the correct amount, then it would be clear when the bar filled and you didn't earn a bright engram.

    I do find it interesting in hindsight that people were jumping through hoops both here and on reddit trying to justify that the bar and numbers were matching up (saying it was just a display bug) even though it seemed clear that it was more than that.

    Feels very similar to how many people are justifying after the fact that this was "just a bug and not at all intentional".

  • Forever ZefiroForever Zefiro cloaked in the midnight glory of an event horizonRegistered User regular
    Just the fact that this dialogue is happening makes me sad about the state of this game and games in general

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  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    I disagree that the XP is tuned to incentivize purchases. You're putting the cart before the horse if you're using the throttling system as evidence. Since players did not know about the throttling, how could they be incentivized to buy XP buffs to counteract it? The only thing up to now that'd incentivize a purchase is how long it takes to level up, especially after your weekly 3x buff is gone. I'd argue that the type of person who'd buy a box before this reveal would still do so afterwards because the time taken to level is all that mattered to them and by all indications Bungie is going to adjust the max XP so the time-per-level remains the same.

  • ChanusChanus Harbinger of the Spicy Rooster Apocalypse The Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered User regular
    @GMaster7, save us with a new thread!

    It is your Destiny .... 2 do it!

    edit: forgot there were six GMasters before our current reboot of GMaster.

    worth noting an edit doesn't update the batsignal so this post will serve to make the batsignal work

    i'm helping

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