unless we're just straight up calling him a liar at this point, RJ went over why he included the dice in the WGA Q&A and it has 0 to do with the Han Solo movie.
RJ's reasoning and Disney execs tinkering with how long shots are held are not always the same.
unless we're just straight up calling him a liar at this point, RJ went over why he included the dice in the WGA Q&A and it has 0 to do with the Han Solo movie.
RJ's reasoning and Disney execs tinkering with how long shots are held are not always the same.
Yeah but he specifically mentions that thats not at all how those decisions were made. It's a really great listen and answers a lot of questions about why he did what where.
for some reason i felt like i had an implicit understanding of
han's dice,
to the extent that now i'm thinking i read one of the EU novels they were mentioned in back in the day. there's absolutely some tie-in shit going on there though. i just reckon johnson's been clever enough to take disney's corporate prerogative and make it satisfyingly layered
edit: sounds like i'll have to check out what he says about it himself!
I just realised those dice are a hook to get me to go and see Han Solo and now I want to vomit
Eeeeh I think that's a bit of a stretch
hard disagree. i'm with Tube
its not
edit:
unless we're just straight up calling him a liar at this point, RJ went over why he included the dice in the WGA Q&A and it has 0 to do with the Han Solo movie.
RJ's reasoning and Disney execs tinkering with how long shots are held are not always the same.
We've already gone over plenty of valid reasons to have issues with the film without projecting this kind of thing onto it. It's completely baseless cynicism.
the idea that the first order would not be actively scanning for escape craft when extermination is their goal is absurd though.
I could have sworn
that they mentioned cloaking? But then I was disappointed when the ships didn't shimmer or do anything cloaking like, so I guess there was no cloaking?
It's more like
electronic countermeasures, not visual cloaking
This is one of my pet bugaboos but
you can’t cloak things in space arghhhh!!!
(Yes I know this in an absurd thing to get hung up on in star wars.)
Wait wait wait
how is SPACE the part where you draw the line on cloaking?
the idea that the first order would not be actively scanning for escape craft when extermination is their goal is absurd though.
I could have sworn
that they mentioned cloaking? But then I was disappointed when the ships didn't shimmer or do anything cloaking like, so I guess there was no cloaking?
It's more like
electronic countermeasures, not visual cloaking
This is one of my pet bugaboos but
you can’t cloak things in space arghhhh!!!
(Yes I know this in an absurd thing to get hung up on in star wars.)
Wait wait wait
how is SPACE the part where you draw the line on cloaking?
There's no gravity out there so it'd just be getting in the way as the fabric floats aimlessly
the idea that the first order would not be actively scanning for escape craft when extermination is their goal is absurd though.
I could have sworn
that they mentioned cloaking? But then I was disappointed when the ships didn't shimmer or do anything cloaking like, so I guess there was no cloaking?
It's more like
electronic countermeasures, not visual cloaking
This is one of my pet bugaboos but
you can’t cloak things in space arghhhh!!!
(Yes I know this in an absurd thing to get hung up on in star wars.)
Wait wait wait
how is SPACE the part where you draw the line on cloaking?
probably something about heat buildup due to not being able to radiate anything.
I know you're joking, but "there's no gravity in space" is the weirdest phrase I've seen casually thrown around recently.
I know what people mean by it, but it sounds so goofy to me.
If it makes you feel any better my immediate thought after posting that was "that's so stupid, don't say there's no gravity in space" followed by "shut up everyone knows what that means and it would just be clunky if you try to make it more accurate" and then I went back and forth like that for a bit.
the idea that the first order would not be actively scanning for escape craft when extermination is their goal is absurd though.
I could have sworn
that they mentioned cloaking? But then I was disappointed when the ships didn't shimmer or do anything cloaking like, so I guess there was no cloaking?
It's more like
electronic countermeasures, not visual cloaking
This is one of my pet bugaboos but
you can’t cloak things in space arghhhh!!!
(Yes I know this in an absurd thing to get hung up on in star wars.)
Wait wait wait
how is SPACE the part where you draw the line on cloaking?
the idea that the first order would not be actively scanning for escape craft when extermination is their goal is absurd though.
I could have sworn
that they mentioned cloaking? But then I was disappointed when the ships didn't shimmer or do anything cloaking like, so I guess there was no cloaking?
It's more like
electronic countermeasures, not visual cloaking
This is one of my pet bugaboos but
you can’t cloak things in space arghhhh!!!
(Yes I know this in an absurd thing to get hung up on in star wars.)
Wait wait wait
how is SPACE the part where you draw the line on cloaking?
Heat
edit: ecm cloaking is not an outlandish idea.
I mean, it's a sci-fi fantasy.
If Mass Effect can come up with technobabble to explain heat build-up, I'm sure Star Wars could have their own explanation if they wanted to.
I just realised those dice are a hook to get me to go and see Han Solo and now I want to vomit
Eeeeh I think that's a bit of a stretch
hard disagree. i'm with Tube
its not
edit:
unless we're just straight up calling him a liar at this point, RJ went over why he included the dice in the WGA Q&A and it has 0 to do with the Han Solo movie.
RJ's reasoning and Disney execs tinkering with how long shots are held are not always the same.
Yeah but he specifically mentions that thats not at all how those decisions were made. It's a really great listen and answers a lot of questions about why he did what where.
edit:
so I just listened to the whole thing and aside from one mention from the scene where
luke hands the dice to leia
I didn't hear a specific mention to this particular decision, but rather decisions like it. Did I miss the question about it?
the idea that the first order would not be actively scanning for escape craft when extermination is their goal is absurd though.
I could have sworn
that they mentioned cloaking? But then I was disappointed when the ships didn't shimmer or do anything cloaking like, so I guess there was no cloaking?
It's more like
electronic countermeasures, not visual cloaking
This is one of my pet bugaboos but
you can’t cloak things in space arghhhh!!!
(Yes I know this in an absurd thing to get hung up on in star wars.)
Wait wait wait
how is SPACE the part where you draw the line on cloaking?
Heat
edit: ecm cloaking is not an outlandish idea.
I mean, it's a sci-fi fantasy.
If Mass Effect can come up with technobabble to explain heat build-up, I'm sure Star Wars could have their own explanation if they wanted to.
mass effect's space cloaking was turbo-bullshit though
The Normandy's main propulsion is provided by four large antiproton thrusters, with both aft and forward exhausts. Antiprotons are injected into a reaction chamber filled with hydrogen. The resulting matter-antimatter annihilation provides unmatched motive power. The exhaust of antiproton drives is measured in millions of degrees Celsius; any vessel caught behind them will melt like wax in a blowtorch.
Along with the Tantalus Drive Core, the Normandy is able to temporarily sink her heat within the hull.
no. absolutely not.
e: though the other propulsion system is gravitic, so that's slightly less silly. still incredibly dumb.
Shorty on
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Librarian's ghostLibrarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSporkRegistered Userregular
There is an update for the Sphero droids today that lets you set them to interact with each other autonomously. I have no fucking idea how this is working but now R2 and BB9e are just randomly talking to each other? How does the one know to respond? This is dark magic.
the idea that the first order would not be actively scanning for escape craft when extermination is their goal is absurd though.
I could have sworn
that they mentioned cloaking? But then I was disappointed when the ships didn't shimmer or do anything cloaking like, so I guess there was no cloaking?
It's more like
electronic countermeasures, not visual cloaking
This is one of my pet bugaboos but
you can’t cloak things in space arghhhh!!!
(Yes I know this in an absurd thing to get hung up on in star wars.)
Wait wait wait
how is SPACE the part where you draw the line on cloaking?
Heat
Cloaking is about distorting your cross-section, not hiding it entirely. The idea is not that they make the craft cooler, it's that they modify where the heat goes or they interfere with the sensors directly. So for radar you can change the hull to bounce it at oblique angles or absorb it. Or you can emit other frequencies that counter the incoming radar.
For heat, you can modify the direction of the plume or exhaust so that it changes the angle the sensor has to be to detect it, or you can change where the heat is so that the craft appears differently to the sensor. You might also just be able to bombard the sensor so that it overcorrects, or so that the object looks different from what it is. Or you can exhaust cold gas/liquid into the exhaust/plume to absorb and spread the heat. Specifically for this case, the idea isn't that they mitigate the heat of the ship it's that they disrupt whatever the sensors are sending out so that they either don't bounce back to the sensor or that what they see is not recognizable as what they're looking for.
On a more structural note that doesn't really apply to the specific situation, you can use IR absorbing/resistant materials or run liquid or gas around the hull, which just generally might be a good idea anyways because, say, water can actually absorb all kinds of radiation.
But really, in this case it's just a case of the Resistance saying they're using stealth, so we should recognize that they can't be seen by the First Order, and then the Hacker and Finn/Rose tell us that the Hacker told the First Order how to see them. The specifics of how aren't really important.
I just realised those dice are a hook to get me to go and see Han Solo and now I want to vomit
Eeeeh I think that's a bit of a stretch
hard disagree. i'm with Tube
its not
edit:
unless we're just straight up calling him a liar at this point, RJ went over why he included the dice in the WGA Q&A and it has 0 to do with the Han Solo movie.
RJ's reasoning and Disney execs tinkering with how long shots are held are not always the same.
We've already gone over plenty of valid reasons to have issues with the film without projecting this kind of thing onto it. It's completely baseless cynicism.
Yeah, there's some tinfoil hat shit going on regarding this movie.
Like... sometimes people make movies. Even when they work for Disney, sometimes people just fuckin make movies and there's stuff in them.
Not everything in TFA was a question or a mystery box. No, not that thing... nope, not that one, either. Nah, still not there.
Nope.
Most of those questions and mysteries? Guess where they came from.
Your fucking imagination.
Welcome to Star Wars, where people used to like to use their imaginations.
it always feels weird to me how much people want wedge in these movies since i have never read a star wars book so he's just some mustache guy who never said anything interesting
it always feels weird to me how much people want wedge in these movies since i have never read a star wars book so he's just some mustache guy who never said anything interesting
it always feels weird to me how much people want wedge in these movies since i have never read a star wars book so he's just some mustache guy who never said anything interesting
I think the mustache guy was Biggs
Wedge is just kind of always there, he doesn't do anything, but he's always there
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Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
wedge in the movies survives the trench run, the battle of hoth, and the battle of endor
he's pretty badass by implication but you don't ever see him do anything specifically cool
wedge in the movies survives the trench run, the battle of hoth, and the battle of endor
he's pretty badass by implication but you don't ever see him do anything specifically cool
He's also the only person that goes into the Death Star with Lando that makes it out, but I don't think he actually does anything, Lando gets all the good stuff
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Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
wedge in the movies survives the trench run, the battle of hoth, and the battle of endor
he's pretty badass by implication but you don't ever see him do anything specifically cool
He's also the only person that goes into the Death Star with Lando that makes it out, but I don't think he actually does anything, Lando gets all the good stuff
wedge in the movies survives the trench run, the battle of hoth, and the battle of endor
he's pretty badass by implication but you don't ever see him do anything specifically cool
He's also the only person that goes into the Death Star with Lando that makes it out, but I don't think he actually does anything, Lando gets all the good stuff
wedge in the movies survives the trench run, the battle of hoth, and the battle of endor
he's pretty badass by implication but you don't ever see him do anything specifically cool
Saves Luke's life with a headon pass against a TIE.
Destroys the first AT-AT on Hoth.
Shoots down multiple TIEs at Endor and shares the DSII kill with Lando, and survives.
luke's chatty wingman who has to be told to shut up in IV returning as an increasingly competent pilot and leader in each following film is a nice little detail honestly
the old EU got kind of carried away with it, but, well, it did that with everything and everyone
Aaron Allston wrote a couple of fun books with him at least!
0
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Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
the x-wing books hold up fairly well, imo
+2
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DimosarI am the Brain GeniusRegistered Userregular
I just realised those dice are a hook to get me to go and see Han Solo and now I want to vomit
Eeeeh I think that's a bit of a stretch
hard disagree. i'm with Tube
its not
edit:
unless we're just straight up calling him a liar at this point, RJ went over why he included the dice in the WGA Q&A and it has 0 to do with the Han Solo movie.
RJ's reasoning and Disney execs tinkering with how long shots are held are not always the same.
We've already gone over plenty of valid reasons to have issues with the film without projecting this kind of thing onto it. It's completely baseless cynicism.
Yeah, there's some tinfoil hat shit going on regarding this movie.
Like... sometimes people make movies. Even when they work for Disney, sometimes people just fuckin make movies and there's stuff in them.
Not everything in TFA was a question or a mystery box. No, not that thing... nope, not that one, either. Nah, still not there.
Nope.
Most of those questions and mysteries? Guess where they came from.
Your fucking imagination.
Welcome to Star Wars, where people used to like to use their imaginations.
so, so many of these feelings of 'betrayal' from the film, or 'plot holes' that aren't actually plot holes come from this obsession with canonicity that just baffles me. Everything has to be demarcated and explained carefully, because apparently this is something we are all owed now? Not just is it not a Star Wars thing (although it is EXTREMELY an EU/Prequels thing which explains a lot tbh) it's actively bad for storytelling. These things aren't just mysteries, they are pointless information. Stuff that literally only matters if you're a wookiepedia editor who needs certain things to be True.
To me it seems like people felt betrayed by this movie because the EU has got it into our heads that every single detail in these stories has a detailed backstory, and it's also, always important.
THIS has to be a canonical reference to the upcoming han solo film, this snoke guy HAS to be extremely critical to the story, because I ran ahead and imagined the next two movies having lots of stuff about him. Ben's turn to the dark side HAS to have a deeper explanation other than his clear personality flaws. Rey's parents have to be a mystery to be solved and wondered about, even though Maz already said they were gone and unimportant, it HAS to be something I can solve and tabulate so I can file it away in the great repository of Star Wars information. No storytelling decision happens for emotional reasons that rely on character actions/thematic reasons, it all has to have a relevance to the canon that I can read a book about later, and also complain about.
It really feels like all of this thinking is built around wanting to know everything and feel nothing. It is the quintessential Cinemasins philosophy. So when a movie like this comes along and it expressly only cares about character and nothing about """"Canon"""" I guess people get mad.
And there are criticisms to be made about the way this movie wants you to Feel (I loved it but some people have other reads of its message or execution, criticisms I think we can all enjoy talking about), but we are still so stuck in the swamp of shit like "the hyperspace maneuver is unrealistic!! why aren't they always using it!!" when it's like, unrealistic in reference to what? Why WOULDN'T it make sense in the story? You assumed things were true about star wars that obviously aren't. Stop trying to solve the movie and just watch it unfold.
I think storytellers should do their best to make things coherent and set up proper expectations but all of these 'sins' have the same issue in common- they were written for a story and not an encyclopedia.
in other words,
the greatest mystery box JJ ever made was one that never existed
I'm not certain that was ever his intention but if it was, I kind of love it
Librarian's ghostLibrarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSporkRegistered Userregular
So as these two droids just merrily chat away to each other I realize something. BB9E has sound.
With these Sphero droids, the BB9E and BB8 are not large enough to have a speaker inside so all the sound comes out of the phone. However my phone is across the room and off. The sound is actually coming out of the R2-D2 for both him and BB9 and it is in sync to the movement and light flashes of BB9.
Librarian's ghostLibrarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSporkRegistered Userregular
I assumed it was just timing based and they were just communicating based on when I disconnected from them but clearly they are actually sending signals back and forth.
Posts
RJ's reasoning and Disney execs tinkering with how long shots are held are not always the same.
One could argue blowing yourself up is the most advanced form of cloaking.
Yeah but he specifically mentions that thats not at all how those decisions were made. It's a really great listen and answers a lot of questions about why he did what where.
edit:
Resident 8bitdo expert.
Resident hybrid/flap cover expert.
to the extent that now i'm thinking i read one of the EU novels they were mentioned in back in the day. there's absolutely some tie-in shit going on there though. i just reckon johnson's been clever enough to take disney's corporate prerogative and make it satisfyingly layered
edit: sounds like i'll have to check out what he says about it himself!
We've already gone over plenty of valid reasons to have issues with the film without projecting this kind of thing onto it. It's completely baseless cynicism.
Wait wait wait
I know what people mean by it, but it sounds so goofy to me.
If it makes you feel any better my immediate thought after posting that was "that's so stupid, don't say there's no gravity in space" followed by "shut up everyone knows what that means and it would just be clunky if you try to make it more accurate" and then I went back and forth like that for a bit.
Heat
edit: ecm cloaking is not an outlandish idea.
not even to spellcheck
If Mass Effect can come up with technobabble to explain heat build-up, I'm sure Star Wars could have their own explanation if they wanted to.
so I just listened to the whole thing and aside from one mention from the scene where
no. absolutely not.
e: though the other propulsion system is gravitic, so that's slightly less silly. still incredibly dumb.
Cloaking is about distorting your cross-section, not hiding it entirely. The idea is not that they make the craft cooler, it's that they modify where the heat goes or they interfere with the sensors directly. So for radar you can change the hull to bounce it at oblique angles or absorb it. Or you can emit other frequencies that counter the incoming radar.
For heat, you can modify the direction of the plume or exhaust so that it changes the angle the sensor has to be to detect it, or you can change where the heat is so that the craft appears differently to the sensor. You might also just be able to bombard the sensor so that it overcorrects, or so that the object looks different from what it is. Or you can exhaust cold gas/liquid into the exhaust/plume to absorb and spread the heat. Specifically for this case, the idea isn't that they mitigate the heat of the ship it's that they disrupt whatever the sensors are sending out so that they either don't bounce back to the sensor or that what they see is not recognizable as what they're looking for.
On a more structural note that doesn't really apply to the specific situation, you can use IR absorbing/resistant materials or run liquid or gas around the hull, which just generally might be a good idea anyways because, say, water can actually absorb all kinds of radiation.
But really, in this case it's just a case of the Resistance saying they're using stealth, so we should recognize that they can't be seen by the First Order, and then the Hacker and Finn/Rose tell us that the Hacker told the First Order how to see them. The specifics of how aren't really important.
Yeah, there's some tinfoil hat shit going on regarding this movie.
Like... sometimes people make movies. Even when they work for Disney, sometimes people just fuckin make movies and there's stuff in them.
Not everything in TFA was a question or a mystery box. No, not that thing... nope, not that one, either. Nah, still not there.
Nope.
Most of those questions and mysteries? Guess where they came from.
Your fucking imagination.
Welcome to Star Wars, where people used to like to use their imaginations.
He's also in the Rebels cartoon.
I think the mustache guy was Biggs
Wedge is just kind of always there, he doesn't do anything, but he's always there
he's pretty badass by implication but you don't ever see him do anything specifically cool
He's also the only person that goes into the Death Star with Lando that makes it out, but I don't think he actually does anything, Lando gets all the good stuff
no, wedge fired some torpedoes at the reactor
that's something
tycho makes it out, too
Saves Luke's life with a headon pass against a TIE.
Destroys the first AT-AT on Hoth.
Shoots down multiple TIEs at Endor and shares the DSII kill with Lando, and survives.
Nope, nothing cool whatsoever.
My boy has you covered:
the old EU got kind of carried away with it, but, well, it did that with everything and everyone
Aaron Allston wrote a couple of fun books with him at least!
so, so many of these feelings of 'betrayal' from the film, or 'plot holes' that aren't actually plot holes come from this obsession with canonicity that just baffles me. Everything has to be demarcated and explained carefully, because apparently this is something we are all owed now? Not just is it not a Star Wars thing (although it is EXTREMELY an EU/Prequels thing which explains a lot tbh) it's actively bad for storytelling. These things aren't just mysteries, they are pointless information. Stuff that literally only matters if you're a wookiepedia editor who needs certain things to be True.
THIS has to be a canonical reference to the upcoming han solo film, this snoke guy HAS to be extremely critical to the story, because I ran ahead and imagined the next two movies having lots of stuff about him. Ben's turn to the dark side HAS to have a deeper explanation other than his clear personality flaws. Rey's parents have to be a mystery to be solved and wondered about, even though Maz already said they were gone and unimportant, it HAS to be something I can solve and tabulate so I can file it away in the great repository of Star Wars information. No storytelling decision happens for emotional reasons that rely on character actions/thematic reasons, it all has to have a relevance to the canon that I can read a book about later, and also complain about.
It really feels like all of this thinking is built around wanting to know everything and feel nothing. It is the quintessential Cinemasins philosophy. So when a movie like this comes along and it expressly only cares about character and nothing about """"Canon"""" I guess people get mad.
And there are criticisms to be made about the way this movie wants you to Feel (I loved it but some people have other reads of its message or execution, criticisms I think we can all enjoy talking about), but we are still so stuck in the swamp of shit like "the hyperspace maneuver is unrealistic!! why aren't they always using it!!" when it's like, unrealistic in reference to what? Why WOULDN'T it make sense in the story? You assumed things were true about star wars that obviously aren't. Stop trying to solve the movie and just watch it unfold.
I think storytellers should do their best to make things coherent and set up proper expectations but all of these 'sins' have the same issue in common- they were written for a story and not an encyclopedia.
in other words,
I'm not certain that was ever his intention but if it was, I kind of love it
The Allston ones do, anyway.
Stackpole's are shiiiiiiiiit
With these Sphero droids, the BB9E and BB8 are not large enough to have a speaker inside so all the sound comes out of the phone. However my phone is across the room and off. The sound is actually coming out of the R2-D2 for both him and BB9 and it is in sync to the movement and light flashes of BB9.
This is a cool update.
I'll definitely have to read the Allston ones
I just tried to read the first Stackpole book a year ago and it was traaassshhh