As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/

King Gizzard and the Lizard [chat]

1838486888998

Posts

  • CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    I don't know why you all can't just share the happiness of our blessed, beautiful billionaires paying less taxes

  • Sir LandsharkSir Landshark resting shark face Registered User regular
    I was struck by Derrida's assertion in "Specters of Marx" that life is, in fact, arguably worse now than it has ever been:
    For it must be cried out, at a time when some have the audacity to neo-evangelise in the name of the ideal of a liberal democracy that has finally realised itself as the ideal of human history: never have violence, inequality, exclusion, famine, and thus economic oppression affected as many human beings in the history of the earth and of humanity. Instead of singing the advent of the ideal of liberal democracy and of the capitalist market in the euphoria of the end of history, instead of celebrating the ‘end of ideologies’ and the end of the great emancipatory discourses, let us never neglect this obvious macroscopic fact, made up of innumerable singular sites of suffering: no degree of progress allows one to ignore that never before, in absolute figures, have so many men, women and children been subjugated, starved or exterminated on the earth.

    Because proportion doesn't matter, and is a deflection. The absolute number of people in abject suffering does. An interesting and unsettling take.

    Also his specific "ten plagues":
    1.Employment has undergone a change of kind, e.g., underemployment, and requires ‘another concept’.
    2. Deportation of immigrants. Reinforcement of territories in a world of supposed freedom of movement. As in, Fortress Europe and in the number of new walls and barriers being erected around the world, in effect multiplying the "fallen" Berlin Wall manifold.
    3. Economic war. Both between countries and between international trade blocs: United States - Japan - Europe.
    4. Contradictions of the free market. The undecidable conflicts between protectionism and free trade. The unstoppable flow of illegal drugs, arms, etc..
    5. Foreign debt. In effect the basis for mass starvation and demoralisation for developing countries. Often the loans benefiting only a small elite, for luxury items, e.g., cars, air conditioning etc. but being paid back by poorer workers.
    6. The arms trade. The inability to control to any meaningful extent trade within the biggest ‘black market’
    7. Spread of nuclear weapons. The restriction of nuclear capacity can no longer be maintained by leading states since it is only knowledge and cannot be contained.
    8. Inter-ethnic wars. The phantom of mythic national identities fueling tension in semi-developed countries.
    9. Phantom-states within organised crime. In particular the non-democratic power gained by drug cartels.
    10. International law and its institutions. The hypocrisy of such statutes in the face of unilateral aggression on the part of the economically dominant states. International law is mainly exercised against the weaker nations.

    counterpoint, the Nintendo switch didn't exist until 2017

    Please consider the environment before printing this post.
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    Eddy wrote: »
    I think a life of crime can't be that bad, remuneratively speaking

    the NOKAS robbery, the biggest robbery in norwegian history, earned, per year in prison that was sentenced in total (171), less than they would have if they just worked in retail

    ftOqU21.png
  • AiouaAioua Ora Occidens Ora OptimaRegistered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Eddy wrote: »
    I think a life of crime can't be that bad, remuneratively speaking

    the NOKAS robbery, the biggest robbery in norwegian history, earned, per year in prison that was sentenced in total (171), less than they would have if they just worked in retail

    well their mistake was getting caught

    life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
    fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
    that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
    bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    Because proportion doesn't matter, and is a deflection. The absolute number of people in abject suffering does. An interesting and unsettling take.
    Going by absolute numbers, it is still probably better nowadays than in the past.

  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    I was struck by Derrida's assertion in "Specters of Marx" that life is, in fact, arguably worse now than it has ever been:
    For it must be cried out, at a time when some have the audacity to neo-evangelise in the name of the ideal of a liberal democracy that has finally realised itself as the ideal of human history: never have violence, inequality, exclusion, famine, and thus economic oppression affected as many human beings in the history of the earth and of humanity. Instead of singing the advent of the ideal of liberal democracy and of the capitalist market in the euphoria of the end of history, instead of celebrating the ‘end of ideologies’ and the end of the great emancipatory discourses, let us never neglect this obvious macroscopic fact, made up of innumerable singular sites of suffering: no degree of progress allows one to ignore that never before, in absolute figures, have so many men, women and children been subjugated, starved or exterminated on the earth.

    Because proportion doesn't matter, and is a deflection. The absolute number of people in abject suffering does. An interesting and unsettling take.

    Also his specific "ten plagues":
    1.Employment has undergone a change of kind, e.g., underemployment, and requires ‘another concept’.
    2. Deportation of immigrants. Reinforcement of territories in a world of supposed freedom of movement. As in, Fortress Europe and in the number of new walls and barriers being erected around the world, in effect multiplying the "fallen" Berlin Wall manifold.
    3. Economic war. Both between countries and between international trade blocs: United States - Japan - Europe.
    4. Contradictions of the free market. The undecidable conflicts between protectionism and free trade. The unstoppable flow of illegal drugs, arms, etc..
    5. Foreign debt. In effect the basis for mass starvation and demoralisation for developing countries. Often the loans benefiting only a small elite, for luxury items, e.g., cars, air conditioning etc. but being paid back by poorer workers.
    6. The arms trade. The inability to control to any meaningful extent trade within the biggest ‘black market’
    7. Spread of nuclear weapons. The restriction of nuclear capacity can no longer be maintained by leading states since it is only knowledge and cannot be contained.
    8. Inter-ethnic wars. The phantom of mythic national identities fueling tension in semi-developed countries.
    9. Phantom-states within organised crime. In particular the non-democratic power gained by drug cartels.
    10. International law and its institutions. The hypocrisy of such statutes in the face of unilateral aggression on the part of the economically dominant states. International law is mainly exercised against the weaker nations.

    counterpoint, the Nintendo switch didn't exist until 2017

    actually it's very old

    the original "nintendo switch" was the substitution of hollow diversion for political action, a paralytic agent deployed in service of the wealthy elite and the status quo

  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    I was struck by Derrida's assertion in "Specters of Marx" that life is, in fact, arguably worse now than it has ever been:
    For it must be cried out, at a time when some have the audacity to neo-evangelise in the name of the ideal of a liberal democracy that has finally realised itself as the ideal of human history: never have violence, inequality, exclusion, famine, and thus economic oppression affected as many human beings in the history of the earth and of humanity. Instead of singing the advent of the ideal of liberal democracy and of the capitalist market in the euphoria of the end of history, instead of celebrating the ‘end of ideologies’ and the end of the great emancipatory discourses, let us never neglect this obvious macroscopic fact, made up of innumerable singular sites of suffering: no degree of progress allows one to ignore that never before, in absolute figures, have so many men, women and children been subjugated, starved or exterminated on the earth.

    Because proportion doesn't matter, and is a deflection. The absolute number of people in abject suffering does. An interesting and unsettling take.

    Also his specific "ten plagues":
    1.Employment has undergone a change of kind, e.g., underemployment, and requires ‘another concept’.
    2. Deportation of immigrants. Reinforcement of territories in a world of supposed freedom of movement. As in, Fortress Europe and in the number of new walls and barriers being erected around the world, in effect multiplying the "fallen" Berlin Wall manifold.
    3. Economic war. Both between countries and between international trade blocs: United States - Japan - Europe.
    4. Contradictions of the free market. The undecidable conflicts between protectionism and free trade. The unstoppable flow of illegal drugs, arms, etc..
    5. Foreign debt. In effect the basis for mass starvation and demoralisation for developing countries. Often the loans benefiting only a small elite, for luxury items, e.g., cars, air conditioning etc. but being paid back by poorer workers.
    6. The arms trade. The inability to control to any meaningful extent trade within the biggest ‘black market’
    7. Spread of nuclear weapons. The restriction of nuclear capacity can no longer be maintained by leading states since it is only knowledge and cannot be contained.
    8. Inter-ethnic wars. The phantom of mythic national identities fueling tension in semi-developed countries.
    9. Phantom-states within organised crime. In particular the non-democratic power gained by drug cartels.
    10. International law and its institutions. The hypocrisy of such statutes in the face of unilateral aggression on the part of the economically dominant states. International law is mainly exercised against the weaker nations.

    counterpoint, the Nintendo switch didn't exist until 2017

    actually it's very old

    the original "nintendo switch" was the substitution of hollow diversion for political action, a paralytic agent deployed in service of the wealthy elite and the status quo

    this can't be right because when newsies threw their caps at stuff in the '20s they didn't turn into anything cool at all.

  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Eddy wrote: »
    I think a life of crime can't be that bad, remuneratively speaking

    the NOKAS robbery, the biggest robbery in norwegian history, earned, per year in prison that was sentenced in total (171), less than they would have if they just worked in retail

    They never found the money from the "helicopter robbery" here.

    I hope they cashed it in before they got caught, because by the time they were out of prison the bills were retired and no longer valid currency.

  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    @Arch serious answer for you.

    A lot of midwest/mountain west cities have crazy low unhealthy unemployment. Salt Lake is 2.8%. Denver is 2.6%. Most of the good paying jobs are either tech or data science jobs. Non-academic mostly corporate jobs using the large tech infrastructure and population of educated young folks to build an economy based on the wants of 25-35 year old young professionals.

    Hell even places like Omaha and Des Moines I guess have a decent boom in this stuff. Pittsburgh as well.

    u7stthr17eud.png
  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    Echo wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Eddy wrote: »
    I think a life of crime can't be that bad, remuneratively speaking

    the NOKAS robbery, the biggest robbery in norwegian history, earned, per year in prison that was sentenced in total (171), less than they would have if they just worked in retail

    They never found the money from the "helicopter robbery" here.

    I hope they cashed it in before they got caught, because by the time they were out of prison the bills were retired and no longer valid currency.

    the biggest troll

    lol we changed all the money while u were in jail hahahaa #rekt

  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    desc wrote: »
    -
    spool32 wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    Arch wrote: »
    what job markets are on fire right now

    this is a serious question

    and, more appropriately

    which job markets are A. on fire, B. paying a decent wage with bennies and C. don't have an overabundance of overqualified applicants

    spool often mentions how you can go become an undersea welder in the gulf of mexico as an example

    or you know, a programmer.
    oil scientist seems to be working out.
    youtuber
    e-sports competitor
    I think kickstarter is a job right
    memester
    bitcoin miner

    literally tens of people have succeeded at these things!

    we stopped having kids due to apathy and slackering, how many of these supposed "millennials" are there really?

    Probably like 50 tops.

    *whispers* there's like a million times more of them than there are genxers

    ... whoops

  • QanamilQanamil x Registered User regular
    Internet service out. Gamez time suck it work.

  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    Because proportion doesn't matter, and is a deflection. The absolute number of people in abject suffering does. An interesting and unsettling take.
    Going by absolute numbers, it is still probably better nowadays than in the past.

    I think he's taking advantage of our ignorance of ancient conditions to be fuzzy about those numbers

    Tribal groups hunting and gathering probably had a pretty decent life, apparently, and then agricultural civilization was pretty much horrible and miserable for centuries (despite being much more powerful as a kind of state) until medicine and hygiene dramatically improved

    I think a lot of continental thinkers really don't want to concede that progress does exist in less-than-purely-political areas, and cheap, effective technologies like vaccines really did make a big difference to human welfare

  • milskimilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    Chanus wrote: »
    Arch wrote: »
    what job markets are on fire right now

    this is a serious question

    and, more appropriately

    which job markets are A. on fire, B. paying a decent wage with bennies and C. don't have an overabundance of overqualified applicants

    spool often mentions how you can go become an undersea welder in the gulf of mexico as an example

    Undersea Welding isn't a career, it's a way to make a lot of money until you die in 4 years or get the fuck out

    I ate an engineer
  • QanamilQanamil x Registered User regular
    Though service outage when it's just super cold and before the inch or whatever of snow and ice isn't particularly comforting.

    Ugh draft saved phone pop up :l

  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    Of course, if any of those crucial inventions that uplifted us from misery were invented now, they would be patented and sold as subscription services or with proprietary refills to extract as much wealth as possible from the working class

    oh what's that, they're kickstarting a ten-second e-toothbrush with proprietary refills, are they

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    i imagine how much you think the world sucks right now at least in part depends on what point of your life you were experiencing between 2007 and 2012

    like, say, if you had just graduated college and were thrown into a world that had fallen apart under the weight of the excesses of your parents' generation, i suspect you would think everything sucks more than others might

    there is a pretty clear dividing line between people who had ample opportunity in their 20s and those who haven't

    dude that's just 5 years and the job market is on fire right now!

    I've had my retirement deleted twice by bubbles bursting - moaning how tough it was during 50% of the recent recessions does not resonate!

    how did it get deleted?

    401K lost all value the first time, 2nd time I converted it all to cash so that the family could survive an 18mo jobless stint.

    We don't have to live in a world where someone has to do this.

    To elaborate, you manage to find a way to survive the shit life throws at you and wind up ok and think hey the world isn't that bad but never take the longer view that there's no reason for these hurdles to ever exist in the first place and that you're just trapped in a cycle of constantly avoiding life ruining events that our hellworld has decided are facts.

    There's no reason anyone should have to worry about being homeless or hungry or going without needed goods other than that we've decided they should have to.

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    I discovered that Leæther Strip made a new album in 2016 and now I'm listening to the classics.

    Strap me down with disillusion
    Tie me up in lifelines
    Nothing stops my thought from breeding
    Nothing's stopping my mind


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhbZM0u_jpk

  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Also in general folks under 35 who came into the workforce between 2006-2010 have:

    1)Lower starting pay which will mean lower total life time earnings
    2)Higher student debt than previous generations
    3)High educational requirements for entry level jobs (lol data entry requiring a college degree type of stuff)
    4)Lack of a secure retirement system of any sort
    5)Missing some of the most important skill and wage building years of a career (25-35)


    This is off the top of my head. Basically the recession and a even before the crash the general population of older millenials got a nasty short end of the capitalist stick and it will affect their lifetime earnings. In fact millenials are the first generation in US history forecasted to have a lower quality of life and probably even shorter life span than their parents generation.

    Its population level economic shit show.

    u7stthr17eud.png
  • Sir LandsharkSir Landshark resting shark face Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    i imagine how much you think the world sucks right now at least in part depends on what point of your life you were experiencing between 2007 and 2012

    like, say, if you had just graduated college and were thrown into a world that had fallen apart under the weight of the excesses of your parents' generation, i suspect you would think everything sucks more than others might

    there is a pretty clear dividing line between people who had ample opportunity in their 20s and those who haven't

    dude that's just 5 years and the job market is on fire right now!

    I've had my retirement deleted twice by bubbles bursting - moaning how tough it was during 50% of the recent recessions does not resonate!

    how did it get deleted?

    401K lost all value the first time, 2nd time I converted it all to cash so that the family could survive an 18mo jobless stint.

    We don't have to live in a world where someone has to do this.

    To elaborate, you manage to find a way to survive the shit life throws at you and wind up ok and think hey the world isn't that bad but never take the longer view that there's no reason for these hurdles to ever exist in the first place and that you're just trapped in a cycle of constantly avoiding life ruining events that our hellworld has decided are facts.

    There's no reason anyone should have to worry about being homeless or hungry or going without needed goods other than that we've decided they should have to.

    I really don't think spool was saying that the world can't be better

    but maybe things really aren't so bleak as trendy nihilistic twitter accounts would have us believe

    Please consider the environment before printing this post.
  • Sir LandsharkSir Landshark resting shark face Registered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Also in general folks under 35 who came into the workforce between 2006-2010 have:

    1)Lower starting pay which will mean lower total life time earnings
    2)Higher student debt than previous generations
    3)High educational requirements for entry level jobs (lol data entry requiring a college degree type of stuff)
    4)Lack of a secure retirement system of any sort
    5)Missing some of the most important skill and wage building years of a career (25-35)


    This is off the top of my head. Basically the recession and a even before the crash the general population of older millenials got a nasty short end of the capitalist stick and it will affect their lifetime earnings. In fact millenials are the first generation in US history forecasted to have a lower quality of life and probably even shorter life span than their parents generation.

    Its population level economic shit show.

    how severe were the long term effects of the great depression on the generation entering the workforce at that time?

    Please consider the environment before printing this post.
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    Because proportion doesn't matter, and is a deflection. The absolute number of people in abject suffering does. An interesting and unsettling take.
    Going by absolute numbers, it is still probably better nowadays than in the past.

    I think he's taking advantage of our ignorance of ancient conditions to be fuzzy about those numbers

    Tribal groups hunting and gathering probably had a pretty decent life, apparently, and then agricultural civilization was pretty much horrible and miserable for centuries (despite being much more powerful as a kind of state) until medicine and hygiene dramatically improved

    I think a lot of continental thinkers really don't want to concede that progress does exist in less-than-purely-political areas, and cheap, effective technologies like vaccines really did make a big difference to human welfare

    Once you get as far back as the vast majority of the population being hunter gatherers, any absolute numbers comparisons should really bonkers because of the small population size.

    Trying to compare a population of over seven billion to one of maybe a hundred million is going to result in one of the populations being higher in absolute numbers almost no matter what.

  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    i imagine how much you think the world sucks right now at least in part depends on what point of your life you were experiencing between 2007 and 2012

    like, say, if you had just graduated college and were thrown into a world that had fallen apart under the weight of the excesses of your parents' generation, i suspect you would think everything sucks more than others might

    there is a pretty clear dividing line between people who had ample opportunity in their 20s and those who haven't

    dude that's just 5 years and the job market is on fire right now!

    I've had my retirement deleted twice by bubbles bursting - moaning how tough it was during 50% of the recent recessions does not resonate!

    how did it get deleted?

    401K lost all value the first time, 2nd time I converted it all to cash so that the family could survive an 18mo jobless stint.

    We don't have to live in a world where someone has to do this.

    To elaborate, you manage to find a way to survive the shit life throws at you and wind up ok and think hey the world isn't that bad but never take the longer view that there's no reason for these hurdles to ever exist in the first place and that you're just trapped in a cycle of constantly avoiding life ruining events that our hellworld has decided are facts.

    There's no reason anyone should have to worry about being homeless or hungry or going without needed goods other than that we've decided they should have to.

    It would be nice to just tell the younger two kids to move out and live off the state until they figured out how to not. I could keep generating wealth and not use it on them at all!

    I wouldn't even have to worry about providing for my family in the loving embrace of the State.



    ... aaand now we're back to young folks not knowing why Paranoia is chilling.

  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    I was struck by Derrida's assertion in "Specters of Marx" that life is, in fact, arguably worse now than it has ever been:
    For it must be cried out, at a time when some have the audacity to neo-evangelise in the name of the ideal of a liberal democracy that has finally realised itself as the ideal of human history: never have violence, inequality, exclusion, famine, and thus economic oppression affected as many human beings in the history of the earth and of humanity. Instead of singing the advent of the ideal of liberal democracy and of the capitalist market in the euphoria of the end of history, instead of celebrating the ‘end of ideologies’ and the end of the great emancipatory discourses, let us never neglect this obvious macroscopic fact, made up of innumerable singular sites of suffering: no degree of progress allows one to ignore that never before, in absolute figures, have so many men, women and children been subjugated, starved or exterminated on the earth.

    Because proportion doesn't matter, and is a deflection. The absolute number of people in abject suffering does. An interesting and unsettling take.

    Meh.

    Proportion does matter. I would have thought that was trivially obvious. It isn't the only thing that matters, which is also trivially obvious, and one of the vulnerabilities of utilitarianism.

    But since you said it, here's a pretty simple thought experiment. Which is a morally preferable universe? One in which there are 1 billion people on earth and 1 of them is suffering, or one in which there is 100 people on earth and 1 of them is suffering?

    We can also phrase the question differently to make it easier. Which is a morally preferable universe? One in which there are 999 million happy people on earth, or one in which there are 99 happy people on earth?

    Because if absolute numbers matter, then the absolute number of people who aren't suffering also matters.

    This isn't to say that there's a clear calculus where we can multiply and divide wildly disparate experiences. Nobody can say how many happy people is worth 1 suffering person. There's no N orgasms = 1 being burned to death (solve for N.) (Which is why thought experiments like Nozick's utility monster and Parfit's repugnant conclusion are still problems for utilitarianism.)

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    i imagine how much you think the world sucks right now at least in part depends on what point of your life you were experiencing between 2007 and 2012

    like, say, if you had just graduated college and were thrown into a world that had fallen apart under the weight of the excesses of your parents' generation, i suspect you would think everything sucks more than others might

    there is a pretty clear dividing line between people who had ample opportunity in their 20s and those who haven't

    dude that's just 5 years and the job market is on fire right now!

    I've had my retirement deleted twice by bubbles bursting - moaning how tough it was during 50% of the recent recessions does not resonate!

    how did it get deleted?

    401K lost all value the first time, 2nd time I converted it all to cash so that the family could survive an 18mo jobless stint.

    We don't have to live in a world where someone has to do this.

    To elaborate, you manage to find a way to survive the shit life throws at you and wind up ok and think hey the world isn't that bad but never take the longer view that there's no reason for these hurdles to ever exist in the first place and that you're just trapped in a cycle of constantly avoiding life ruining events that our hellworld has decided are facts.

    There's no reason anyone should have to worry about being homeless or hungry or going without needed goods other than that we've decided they should have to.

    I really don't think spool was saying that the world can't be better

    but maybe things really aren't so bleak as trendy nihilistic twitter accounts would have us believe

    Like I mentioned earlier I think some people judge the world based on how much worse it could be while others on how much better.

    The former is a good way to spend a lifetime grateful for eating shit.

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    This is just economic stuff.

    Things that millenials and their kids will bear the largest fallout from that was produced and in the full control of older generations:
    1)Global Warming
    2)Antibiotic Resistant Diseases
    3) A destabilized global system focused on propping up corporations


    On the bright side we might get to live in the cyberpunk dystopia and my black trench coats will all be in style.

    u7stthr17eud.png
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    I just encountered somebody on facebook named "David S. Blockchains"

    Be honest, chat. It's one of you, isn't it?

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • Sir LandsharkSir Landshark resting shark face Registered User regular
    a
    spool32 wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    i imagine how much you think the world sucks right now at least in part depends on what point of your life you were experiencing between 2007 and 2012

    like, say, if you had just graduated college and were thrown into a world that had fallen apart under the weight of the excesses of your parents' generation, i suspect you would think everything sucks more than others might

    there is a pretty clear dividing line between people who had ample opportunity in their 20s and those who haven't

    dude that's just 5 years and the job market is on fire right now!

    I've had my retirement deleted twice by bubbles bursting - moaning how tough it was during 50% of the recent recessions does not resonate!

    how did it get deleted?

    401K lost all value the first time, 2nd time I converted it all to cash so that the family could survive an 18mo jobless stint.

    We don't have to live in a world where someone has to do this.

    To elaborate, you manage to find a way to survive the shit life throws at you and wind up ok and think hey the world isn't that bad but never take the longer view that there's no reason for these hurdles to ever exist in the first place and that you're just trapped in a cycle of constantly avoiding life ruining events that our hellworld has decided are facts.

    There's no reason anyone should have to worry about being homeless or hungry or going without needed goods other than that we've decided they should have to.

    I really don't think spool was saying that the world can't be better

    but maybe things really aren't so bleak as trendy nihilistic twitter accounts would have us believe

    Like I mentioned earlier I think some people judge the world based on how much worse it could be while others on how much better.

    The former is a good way to spend a lifetime grateful for eating shit.

    I don't think these are the only two options at all!

    Please consider the environment before printing this post.
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Also in general folks under 35 who came into the workforce between 2006-2010 have:

    1)Lower starting pay which will mean lower total life time earnings
    2)Higher student debt than previous generations
    3)High educational requirements for entry level jobs (lol data entry requiring a college degree type of stuff)
    4)Lack of a secure retirement system of any sort
    5)Missing some of the most important skill and wage building years of a career (25-35)


    This is off the top of my head. Basically the recession and a even before the crash the general population of older millenials got a nasty short end of the capitalist stick and it will affect their lifetime earnings. In fact millenials are the first generation in US history forecasted to have a lower quality of life and probably even shorter life span than their parents generation.

    Its population level economic shit show.

    how severe were the long term effects of the great depression on the generation entering the workforce at that time?

    I am at work so this is out of memory though I think either PEW or Brookings had a good write up on it.

    Could be between 10-15% total earned income over a lifetime which is pretty huge.*

    *From memory I will try to dig up the actual effects later if I remember

    u7stthr17eud.png
  • Mojo_JojoMojo_Jojo We are only now beginning to understand the full power and ramifications of sexual intercourse Registered User regular
    Arch wrote: »
    what job markets are on fire right now

    this is a serious question

    and, more appropriately

    which job markets are A. on fire, B. paying a decent wage with bennies and C. don't have an overabundance of overqualified applicants

    Data scientist

    Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
  • Sir LandsharkSir Landshark resting shark face Registered User regular
    Feral wrote: »
    I just encountered somebody on facebook named "David S. Blockchains"

    Be honest, chat. It's one of you, isn't it?

    im staring at this post trying to decide if comedic genius or terrible joke

    Please consider the environment before printing this post.
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Because proportion doesn't matter, and is a deflection. The absolute number of people in abject suffering does. An interesting and unsettling take.
    Going by absolute numbers, it is still probably better nowadays than in the past.

    I think he's taking advantage of our ignorance of ancient conditions to be fuzzy about those numbers

    Tribal groups hunting and gathering probably had a pretty decent life, apparently, and then agricultural civilization was pretty much horrible and miserable for centuries (despite being much more powerful as a kind of state) until medicine and hygiene dramatically improved

    I think a lot of continental thinkers really don't want to concede that progress does exist in less-than-purely-political areas, and cheap, effective technologies like vaccines really did make a big difference to human welfare

    Once you get as far back as the vast majority of the population being hunter gatherers, any absolute numbers comparisons should really bonkers because of the small population size.

    Trying to compare a population of over seven billion to one of maybe a hundred million is going to result in one of the populations being higher in absolute numbers almost no matter what.

    Well that's this point, right--if you go back to a point where all of humanity existed in abject ignorance and misery, it's entirely possible that their population was still lower than the number of people currently suffering.

    We also have a wild array of misconceptions and vague knowledge about ancient or prehistoric human experiences, often involving a kind of steady arc of progress, which he (and I believe most anthropologists?) would reject

  • SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    Feral wrote: »
    I just encountered somebody on facebook named "David S. Blockchains"

    Be honest, chat. It's one of you, isn't it?

    im staring at this post trying to decide if comedic genius or terrible joke

    He's his own thing

  • zepherinzepherin Russian warship, go fuck yourself Registered User regular
    Arch wrote: »
    what job markets are on fire right now

    this is a serious question

    and, more appropriately

    which job markets are A. on fire, B. paying a decent wage with bennies and C. don't have an overabundance of overqualified applicants
    Construction. Especially skilled trades.

  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    Couscous wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Because proportion doesn't matter, and is a deflection. The absolute number of people in abject suffering does. An interesting and unsettling take.
    Going by absolute numbers, it is still probably better nowadays than in the past.

    I think he's taking advantage of our ignorance of ancient conditions to be fuzzy about those numbers

    Tribal groups hunting and gathering probably had a pretty decent life, apparently, and then agricultural civilization was pretty much horrible and miserable for centuries (despite being much more powerful as a kind of state) until medicine and hygiene dramatically improved

    I think a lot of continental thinkers really don't want to concede that progress does exist in less-than-purely-political areas, and cheap, effective technologies like vaccines really did make a big difference to human welfare

    Once you get as far back as the vast majority of the population being hunter gatherers, any absolute numbers comparisons should really bonkers because of the small population size.

    Trying to compare a population of over seven billion to one of maybe a hundred million is going to result in one of the populations being higher in absolute numbers almost no matter what.

    Well that's this point, right--if you go back to a point where all of humanity existed in abject ignorance and misery, it's entirely possible that their population was still lower than the number of people currently suffering.

    We also have a wild array of misconceptions and vague knowledge about ancient or prehistoric human experiences, often involving a kind of steady arc of progress, which he (and I believe most anthropologists?) would reject

    Does he have much of a line of reasoning for looking at the absolute amount of suffering instead of only looking at the absolute amount of happiness?

    Couscous on
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    Aioua wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Eddy wrote: »
    I think a life of crime can't be that bad, remuneratively speaking

    the NOKAS robbery, the biggest robbery in norwegian history, earned, per year in prison that was sentenced in total (171), less than they would have if they just worked in retail

    well their mistake was getting caught

    you take out a list of all the people who rob ranks, then you cross out anyone currently in prison, then you arrest the remainder

    they weren't hard to catch

    Abdhyius on
    ftOqU21.png
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    Revolution+is+the+Opium+of+the+Intellectuals.jpg

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • cptruggedcptrugged I think it has something to do with free will. Registered User regular
    I'm just mad I didn't think of David S. Blockchains first.

  • Kid PresentableKid Presentable Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    i imagine how much you think the world sucks right now at least in part depends on what point of your life you were experiencing between 2007 and 2012

    like, say, if you had just graduated college and were thrown into a world that had fallen apart under the weight of the excesses of your parents' generation, i suspect you would think everything sucks more than others might

    there is a pretty clear dividing line between people who had ample opportunity in their 20s and those who haven't

    dude that's just 5 years and the job market is on fire right now!

    I've had my retirement deleted twice by bubbles bursting - moaning how tough it was during 50% of the recent recessions does not resonate!

    how did it get deleted?

    401K lost all value the first time, 2nd time I converted it all to cash so that the family could survive an 18mo jobless stint.

    We don't have to live in a world where someone has to do this.

    To elaborate, you manage to find a way to survive the shit life throws at you and wind up ok and think hey the world isn't that bad but never take the longer view that there's no reason for these hurdles to ever exist in the first place and that you're just trapped in a cycle of constantly avoiding life ruining events that our hellworld has decided are facts.

    There's no reason anyone should have to worry about being homeless or hungry or going without needed goods other than that we've decided they should have to.

    It would be nice to just tell the younger two kids to move out and live off the state until they figured out how to not. I could keep generating wealth and not use it on them at all!

    I wouldn't even have to worry about providing for my family in the loving embrace of the State.



    ... aaand now we're back to young folks not knowing why Paranoia is chilling.

    what are you doing

  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    Echo wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Eddy wrote: »
    I think a life of crime can't be that bad, remuneratively speaking

    the NOKAS robbery, the biggest robbery in norwegian history, earned, per year in prison that was sentenced in total (171), less than they would have if they just worked in retail

    They never found the money from the "helicopter robbery" here.

    I hope they cashed it in before they got caught, because by the time they were out of prison the bills were retired and no longer valid currency.

    oh that is perfect

    (according to the robbers, the missing 51 million had variously been spent, gone missing, lost, etc until there was nothing left. Nobody believes that there's nothing left but certainly not 51 million

    ftOqU21.png
This discussion has been closed.