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King Gizzard and the Lizard [chat]

1848587899099

Posts

  • Mojo_JojoMojo_Jojo But do you really believe him? Registered User regular
    Arch wrote: »
    what job markets are on fire right now

    this is a serious question

    and, more appropriately

    which job markets are A. on fire, B. paying a decent wage with bennies and C. don't have an overabundance of overqualified applicants

    Data scientist

    Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
    Element Brian
  • Sir LandsharkSir Landshark resting shark face Registered User regular
    Feral wrote: »
    I just encountered somebody on facebook named "David S. Blockchains"

    Be honest, chat. It's one of you, isn't it?

    im staring at this post trying to decide if comedic genius or terrible joke

    Please consider the environment before printing this post.
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Because proportion doesn't matter, and is a deflection. The absolute number of people in abject suffering does. An interesting and unsettling take.
    Going by absolute numbers, it is still probably better nowadays than in the past.

    I think he's taking advantage of our ignorance of ancient conditions to be fuzzy about those numbers

    Tribal groups hunting and gathering probably had a pretty decent life, apparently, and then agricultural civilization was pretty much horrible and miserable for centuries (despite being much more powerful as a kind of state) until medicine and hygiene dramatically improved

    I think a lot of continental thinkers really don't want to concede that progress does exist in less-than-purely-political areas, and cheap, effective technologies like vaccines really did make a big difference to human welfare

    Once you get as far back as the vast majority of the population being hunter gatherers, any absolute numbers comparisons should really bonkers because of the small population size.

    Trying to compare a population of over seven billion to one of maybe a hundred million is going to result in one of the populations being higher in absolute numbers almost no matter what.

    Well that's this point, right--if you go back to a point where all of humanity existed in abject ignorance and misery, it's entirely possible that their population was still lower than the number of people currently suffering.

    We also have a wild array of misconceptions and vague knowledge about ancient or prehistoric human experiences, often involving a kind of steady arc of progress, which he (and I believe most anthropologists?) would reject

    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I fucking hate you Canadians.
    FeralJulius
  • SniperGuySniperGuy Also known as Dohaeris Registered User regular
    Feral wrote: »
    I just encountered somebody on facebook named "David S. Blockchains"

    Be honest, chat. It's one of you, isn't it?

    im staring at this post trying to decide if comedic genius or terrible joke

    He's his own thing

    Twitch Streaming T/W/TH and more
    Dohaeris210 on PSN / SniperGuy710 on Xbone Live
    Me on Steam
    Hahnsoo1
  • zepherinzepherin Registered User regular
    Arch wrote: »
    what job markets are on fire right now

    this is a serious question

    and, more appropriately

    which job markets are A. on fire, B. paying a decent wage with bennies and C. don't have an overabundance of overqualified applicants
    Construction. Especially skilled trades.

    spool32
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    Couscous wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Because proportion doesn't matter, and is a deflection. The absolute number of people in abject suffering does. An interesting and unsettling take.
    Going by absolute numbers, it is still probably better nowadays than in the past.

    I think he's taking advantage of our ignorance of ancient conditions to be fuzzy about those numbers

    Tribal groups hunting and gathering probably had a pretty decent life, apparently, and then agricultural civilization was pretty much horrible and miserable for centuries (despite being much more powerful as a kind of state) until medicine and hygiene dramatically improved

    I think a lot of continental thinkers really don't want to concede that progress does exist in less-than-purely-political areas, and cheap, effective technologies like vaccines really did make a big difference to human welfare

    Once you get as far back as the vast majority of the population being hunter gatherers, any absolute numbers comparisons should really bonkers because of the small population size.

    Trying to compare a population of over seven billion to one of maybe a hundred million is going to result in one of the populations being higher in absolute numbers almost no matter what.

    Well that's this point, right--if you go back to a point where all of humanity existed in abject ignorance and misery, it's entirely possible that their population was still lower than the number of people currently suffering.

    We also have a wild array of misconceptions and vague knowledge about ancient or prehistoric human experiences, often involving a kind of steady arc of progress, which he (and I believe most anthropologists?) would reject

    Does he have much of a line of reasoning for looking at the absolute amount of suffering instead of only looking at the absolute amount of happiness?

    Couscous on
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    Aioua wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Eddy wrote: »
    I think a life of crime can't be that bad, remuneratively speaking

    the NOKAS robbery, the biggest robbery in norwegian history, earned, per year in prison that was sentenced in total (171), less than they would have if they just worked in retail

    well their mistake was getting caught

    you take out a list of all the people who rob ranks, then you cross out anyone currently in prison, then you arrest the remainder

    they weren't hard to catch

    Abdhyius on
    ftOqU21.png
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD along with you if I get drunk well I know I'm gonna be gonna be the man whoRegistered User regular
    Revolution+is+the+Opium+of+the+Intellectuals.jpg

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
    spool32Evil Multifarious
  • cptruggedcptrugged Time Dilated Registered User regular
    I'm just mad I didn't think of David S. Blockchains first.

    CouscousHahnsoo1Feralspool32IlpalaEddyArch
  • Kid PresentableKid Presentable Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    i imagine how much you think the world sucks right now at least in part depends on what point of your life you were experiencing between 2007 and 2012

    like, say, if you had just graduated college and were thrown into a world that had fallen apart under the weight of the excesses of your parents' generation, i suspect you would think everything sucks more than others might

    there is a pretty clear dividing line between people who had ample opportunity in their 20s and those who haven't

    dude that's just 5 years and the job market is on fire right now!

    I've had my retirement deleted twice by bubbles bursting - moaning how tough it was during 50% of the recent recessions does not resonate!

    how did it get deleted?

    401K lost all value the first time, 2nd time I converted it all to cash so that the family could survive an 18mo jobless stint.

    We don't have to live in a world where someone has to do this.

    To elaborate, you manage to find a way to survive the shit life throws at you and wind up ok and think hey the world isn't that bad but never take the longer view that there's no reason for these hurdles to ever exist in the first place and that you're just trapped in a cycle of constantly avoiding life ruining events that our hellworld has decided are facts.

    There's no reason anyone should have to worry about being homeless or hungry or going without needed goods other than that we've decided they should have to.

    It would be nice to just tell the younger two kids to move out and live off the state until they figured out how to not. I could keep generating wealth and not use it on them at all!

    I wouldn't even have to worry about providing for my family in the loving embrace of the State.



    ... aaand now we're back to young folks not knowing why Paranoia is chilling.

    what are you doing

    Styrofoam SammichFeralAbdhyiusBurnagekedinikBeNarwhalQanamilHavelock2.0
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    Echo wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Eddy wrote: »
    I think a life of crime can't be that bad, remuneratively speaking

    the NOKAS robbery, the biggest robbery in norwegian history, earned, per year in prison that was sentenced in total (171), less than they would have if they just worked in retail

    They never found the money from the "helicopter robbery" here.

    I hope they cashed it in before they got caught, because by the time they were out of prison the bills were retired and no longer valid currency.

    oh that is perfect

    (according to the robbers, the missing 51 million had variously been spent, gone missing, lost, etc until there was nothing left. Nobody believes that there's nothing left but certainly not 51 million

    ftOqU21.png
    Echo
  • ChanusChanus Sugoi! ^_____^Registered User regular
    comparing 30 year olds today to those entering the workforce during/after the great depression is a bit nonsensical

    all we would need to compare them is another global war and the meteoric rise of a new global imperialist superpower

    **Winner Softest and Most Comfy Hugs Award Summer 2018**

    Blueberrywerewlf on the Sony Anime Games Box | BluberryWerewlf on the BroBone
    Havelock2.0
  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    i imagine how much you think the world sucks right now at least in part depends on what point of your life you were experiencing between 2007 and 2012

    like, say, if you had just graduated college and were thrown into a world that had fallen apart under the weight of the excesses of your parents' generation, i suspect you would think everything sucks more than others might

    there is a pretty clear dividing line between people who had ample opportunity in their 20s and those who haven't

    dude that's just 5 years and the job market is on fire right now!

    I've had my retirement deleted twice by bubbles bursting - moaning how tough it was during 50% of the recent recessions does not resonate!

    how did it get deleted?

    401K lost all value the first time, 2nd time I converted it all to cash so that the family could survive an 18mo jobless stint.

    We don't have to live in a world where someone has to do this.

    To elaborate, you manage to find a way to survive the shit life throws at you and wind up ok and think hey the world isn't that bad but never take the longer view that there's no reason for these hurdles to ever exist in the first place and that you're just trapped in a cycle of constantly avoiding life ruining events that our hellworld has decided are facts.

    There's no reason anyone should have to worry about being homeless or hungry or going without needed goods other than that we've decided they should have to.

    I really don't think spool was saying that the world can't be better

    but maybe things really aren't so bleak as trendy nihilistic twitter accounts would have us believe

    Like I mentioned earlier I think some people judge the world based on how much worse it could be while others on how much better.

    The former is a good way to spend a lifetime grateful for eating shit.

    it's more like recognizing how much worse it used to be, and how that doesn't correlate with how terrible people think it is now.

    Case in point: we talk a lot about how terrible and insensitive and tone-deaf it is to explain racism to minorities today. When I was a teenager we used to ride with minorities through a nearby town so that we could be sure they weren't assaulted or killed by the KKK police officers.

    Shit is better than it was, and will be better still. There's no need to hate the past or reject the progress we've made because it's not good enough yet. It's never good enough! But some perspective is in order.

    Abdhyius
  • ChanusChanus Sugoi! ^_____^Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    i imagine how much you think the world sucks right now at least in part depends on what point of your life you were experiencing between 2007 and 2012

    like, say, if you had just graduated college and were thrown into a world that had fallen apart under the weight of the excesses of your parents' generation, i suspect you would think everything sucks more than others might

    there is a pretty clear dividing line between people who had ample opportunity in their 20s and those who haven't

    dude that's just 5 years and the job market is on fire right now!

    I've had my retirement deleted twice by bubbles bursting - moaning how tough it was during 50% of the recent recessions does not resonate!

    how did it get deleted?

    401K lost all value the first time, 2nd time I converted it all to cash so that the family could survive an 18mo jobless stint.

    We don't have to live in a world where someone has to do this.

    To elaborate, you manage to find a way to survive the shit life throws at you and wind up ok and think hey the world isn't that bad but never take the longer view that there's no reason for these hurdles to ever exist in the first place and that you're just trapped in a cycle of constantly avoiding life ruining events that our hellworld has decided are facts.

    There's no reason anyone should have to worry about being homeless or hungry or going without needed goods other than that we've decided they should have to.

    I really don't think spool was saying that the world can't be better

    but maybe things really aren't so bleak as trendy nihilistic twitter accounts would have us believe

    Like I mentioned earlier I think some people judge the world based on how much worse it could be while others on how much better.

    The former is a good way to spend a lifetime grateful for eating shit.

    it's more like recognizing how much worse it used to be, and how that doesn't correlate with how terrible people think it is now.

    Case in point: we talk a lot about how terrible and insensitive and tone-deaf it is to explain racism to minorities today. When I was a teenager we used to ride with minorities through a nearby town so that we could be sure they weren't assaulted or killed by the KKK police officers.

    Shit is better than it was, and will be better still. There's no need to hate the past or reject the progress we've made because it's not good enough yet. It's never good enough! But some perspective is in order.

    the difference here is you are talking about conditions that have arguably improved instead of empirically worsened

    **Winner Softest and Most Comfy Hugs Award Summer 2018**

    Blueberrywerewlf on the Sony Anime Games Box | BluberryWerewlf on the BroBone
  • P10P10 An Idiot With Low IQ Registered User regular
    Chanus wrote: »
    comparing 30 year olds today to those entering the workforce during/after the great depression is a bit nonsensical

    all we would need to compare them is another global war and the meteoric rise of a new global imperialist superpower
    *sweats*

    Shameful pursuits and utterly stupid opinions
    Chanusspool32
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD along with you if I get drunk well I know I'm gonna be gonna be the man whoRegistered User regular
    Feral wrote: »
    I just encountered somebody on facebook named "David S. Blockchains"

    Be honest, chat. It's one of you, isn't it?

    im staring at this post trying to decide if comedic genius or terrible joke

    you don't say

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • EchoEcho Moderator mod
    Bwahaha, I realized that Claus Larsen (Leather Strip) looks a bit like Rummelsnuff.

    Rummelsnuff is a German body builder that makes weird-ass electro-punk or something.

    Echo wrote: »
    Let they who have not posted about their balls in the wrong thread cast the first stone.
    credeiki
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    @Sir Landshark because I am now reading economic papers damn you what it comes to is a loss of a large amount of income on average over a decade for most young people who entered the job market during the recession before they normalize. Which according to the fed can be significant but I am finding trouble getting a solid number. But I see about $100,000 or so in earnings thrown around.

    03x29di.png
    Sir Landshark
  • CoinageCoinage I think I look handsome Registered User regular
    Is it that time again already?
    41fVUAbzypL._SX327_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

    My baba said that I'm not living right
    I said I'm trying baba
    P10FeralBurnageKid PresentableMrMister
  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    Chanus wrote: »
    comparing 30 year olds today to those entering the workforce during/after the great depression is a bit nonsensical

    all we would need to compare them is another global war and the meteoric rise of a new global imperialist superpower

    can we just skip the war and have a do- over on the 2nd bit?

    Chanus
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    Feral wrote: »
    I was struck by Derrida's assertion in "Specters of Marx" that life is, in fact, arguably worse now than it has ever been:
    For it must be cried out, at a time when some have the audacity to neo-evangelise in the name of the ideal of a liberal democracy that has finally realised itself as the ideal of human history: never have violence, inequality, exclusion, famine, and thus economic oppression affected as many human beings in the history of the earth and of humanity. Instead of singing the advent of the ideal of liberal democracy and of the capitalist market in the euphoria of the end of history, instead of celebrating the ‘end of ideologies’ and the end of the great emancipatory discourses, let us never neglect this obvious macroscopic fact, made up of innumerable singular sites of suffering: no degree of progress allows one to ignore that never before, in absolute figures, have so many men, women and children been subjugated, starved or exterminated on the earth.

    Because proportion doesn't matter, and is a deflection. The absolute number of people in abject suffering does. An interesting and unsettling take.

    Meh.

    Proportion does matter. I would have thought that was trivially obvious. It isn't the only thing that matters, which is also trivially obvious, and one of the vulnerabilities of utilitarianism.

    But since you said it, here's a pretty simple thought experiment. Which is a morally preferable universe? One in which there are 1 billion people on earth and 1 of them is suffering, or one in which there is 100 people on earth and 1 of them is suffering?

    We can also phrase the question differently to make it easier. Which is a morally preferable universe? One in which there are 999 million happy people on earth, or one in which there are 99 happy people on earth?

    Because if absolute numbers matter, then the absolute number of people who aren't suffering also matters.

    This isn't to say that there's a clear calculus where we can multiply and divide wildly disparate experiences. Nobody can say how many happy people is worth 1 suffering person. There's no N orgasms = 1 being burned to death (solve for N.) (Which is why thought experiments like Nozick's utility monster and Parfit's repugnant conclusion are still problems for utilitarianism.)

    I don't think there's necessarily a justification to say 1,000,000,000:1 is "preferable" to 100:1. All things being equal, the argument would be that they're morally equivalent, because there's the same amount of suffering, which is not incoherent on its face. The conditions that produced the former ratio might be preferable to the conditions that produced the latter ratio, but that's more functional than inherently ethical.

    I don't think it necessarily follows that the absolute number of people who aren't suffering also matters. That's one of the fundamental problems of utilitarianism, of course. If it does matter, it might be trivial in comparison to ethnic cleansing and mass exploitation, as you say.

    The argument is probably more that absolute numbers are the most important element, i.e. if the number of people in extreme states of suffering is just steadily increasing, then your society is not doing a good job. Implicitly, the argument is that relying on proportion is sort of a cognitive trap to rationalize the failure to address systemic problems.

    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I fucking hate you Canadians.
    EddyJulius
  • Sir LandsharkSir Landshark resting shark face Registered User regular
    Chanus wrote: »
    comparing 30 year olds today to those entering the workforce during/after the great depression is a bit nonsensical

    all we would need to compare them is another global war and the meteoric rise of a new global imperialist superpower

    good thing I wasn't comparing 30 year olds today to those entering the workforce during after the great depression then

    Please consider the environment before printing this post.
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Because proportion doesn't matter, and is a deflection. The absolute number of people in abject suffering does. An interesting and unsettling take.
    Going by absolute numbers, it is still probably better nowadays than in the past.

    I think he's taking advantage of our ignorance of ancient conditions to be fuzzy about those numbers

    Tribal groups hunting and gathering probably had a pretty decent life, apparently, and then agricultural civilization was pretty much horrible and miserable for centuries (despite being much more powerful as a kind of state) until medicine and hygiene dramatically improved

    I think a lot of continental thinkers really don't want to concede that progress does exist in less-than-purely-political areas, and cheap, effective technologies like vaccines really did make a big difference to human welfare

    Once you get as far back as the vast majority of the population being hunter gatherers, any absolute numbers comparisons should really bonkers because of the small population size.

    Trying to compare a population of over seven billion to one of maybe a hundred million is going to result in one of the populations being higher in absolute numbers almost no matter what.

    Well that's this point, right--if you go back to a point where all of humanity existed in abject ignorance and misery, it's entirely possible that their population was still lower than the number of people currently suffering.

    We also have a wild array of misconceptions and vague knowledge about ancient or prehistoric human experiences, often involving a kind of steady arc of progress, which he (and I believe most anthropologists?) would reject

    there are more people now suffering pretty much any disease you can name, than there were people total 10'000 years ago

    ftOqU21.png
  • Sir LandsharkSir Landshark resting shark face Registered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    "Sir Landshark" because I am now reading economic papers damn you what it comes to is a loss of a large amount of income on average over a decade for most young people who entered the job market during the recession before they normalize. Which according to the fed can be significant but I am finding trouble getting a solid number. But I see about $100,000 or so in earnings thrown around.

    $100,000 back then would probably be about 10% of lifetime earnings I would assume? nowadays it's obviously much less. but I'm only interested in the relative loss anyways

    work calls gotta go

    Please consider the environment before printing this post.
  • ChanusChanus Sugoi! ^_____^Registered User regular
    Chanus wrote: »
    comparing 30 year olds today to those entering the workforce during/after the great depression is a bit nonsensical

    all we would need to compare them is another global war and the meteoric rise of a new global imperialist superpower

    good thing I wasn't comparing 30 year olds today to those entering the workforce during after the great depression then

    i mean is that not literally the question you asked?

    **Winner Softest and Most Comfy Hugs Award Summer 2018**

    Blueberrywerewlf on the Sony Anime Games Box | BluberryWerewlf on the BroBone
    kedinik
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    "Sir Landshark" because I am now reading economic papers damn you what it comes to is a loss of a large amount of income on average over a decade for most young people who entered the job market during the recession before they normalize. Which according to the fed can be significant but I am finding trouble getting a solid number. But I see about $100,000 or so in earnings thrown around.

    $100,000 back then would probably be about 10% of lifetime earnings I would assume? nowadays it's obviously much less. but I'm only interested in the relative loss anyways

    work calls gotta go

    This is for the '08 recession I am not talking the the Great Depression.

    03x29di.png
  • BeNarwhalBeNarwhal The Work Left Unfinished Registered User regular
    On Hope, On Empowerment, and Why Optimism Isn't Naive

    Hi, friends. I'm BeNarwhal, AKA Brad, AKA Flex Dunkmaster. You may know me from other such effortposts like "Man Is Having A Home Sweet" and "A Child's Smile The First Time They See Snow Might Be The Most Magical Thing In The World".

    Today, I want to talk about Obama - err, I mean, hope. I want to talk about why we should always have hope, why having hope makes sense right now, and what you can do / where you can go to fuel your reserves of hope.

    I want to talk about empowerment, about how we, right now, are the most influential people on the planet, on the massive change we could spearhead as we move forward together, and why it's possible to feel so powerless in a world where the complete opposite is true.

    Finally, I want to talk about optimism, which is a lot like hope, but it's more like the thing that sustains you while you pursue hope. I want to talk about how it makes sense to be optimistic now and into the future, why positive, goal-driven purpose will win out, and why the powers that be want to trample on your hope and optimism.

    For most of my life, I've been fighting an internal, invisible battle. And when it first started, I was getting my ass kicked! I had no defenses. I had no idea what to do against the dark thoughts, the cynicism, the misanthropy, the perpetual fear that I wasn't good enough and that I would never be good enough. I still struggle with some of that, to be completely honest. But the darkness has largely lifted, and with it the cynicism and misanthropy. I love my fellow human now, each and every one of you. I want the best for all of you, and should you call on me and I in any way possess the ability to help lift you up, I want to be there for you.

    I have hope. I know the future is scary and uncertain. But here's the thing - that's always been true of the future, forever all the time. You can't predict the future beyond the six inches in front of your face, frankly. We can try, and we find comfort in trying, and we feel validated because we can occasionally be right - but we're wrong more often than we're right. There are a lot of people who think I should be dead. There were a lot of people who thought I WAS dead. I suspect an element of that is what continues to fuck up my relationship with my dad to this day!

    But I had hope. Even in my darkest, poorest, most challenging moments, when even my body was beginning to fail and betray me, I knew there was reason to hope. Because the future is always brighter, friends. It may not always be the ideal we imagined, but the future is, by definition, a realm of endless possibilities, and given that that is true, there is reason enough right there to have hope.

    Dan Carlin is a history podcaster. I suspect most of you have heard / heard of him. I was listening to one of his episodes of sort of "Medieval" history - the so-called "Dark Ages", while the rest of the world actually enjoyed almost synchronized Golden Ages but things were a little bit harder in Europe, and that's what really matters ... but I digress - but one thing he said stuck out to me. In the past, in any age before the Industrial Revolution, frankly, most societies, most civilizations, took it as a given that the prosperity, wealth, and progress of their times would ebb and flow. There would be ups, and there would be dizzying downs.

    We might be experiencing a down right now, I'm ready to admit that. The economy looks decent as a whole, but it's built on the back of growing inequality, desperate employees working for ever-more-greedy employers, prison-slave labour, militant uncertainty all over the globe, and sweatshops. With facts like those, we kinda should expect a low, shouldn't we? The Middle East is in wild flux, East Asia is in a constant state of brinkmanship, and of course the President of the United States hasn't helped matters with his saber-rattling rhetoric.

    But we're going to be okay, I promise you. No one wants to set off World War III, because there's no World War IV. I know things are scary and uncertain right now, and oppression grows every day, but I also know that there's a light at the end of the tunnel, because there always is - there always has been. We're human beings, gosh darn it, we've survived far worse. We survived the Mongol Hordes! We survived plague and pestilence! We survived regularly dying in childbirth because instead of medicine we thought everything was basically magic!

    So I ain't scurred. Take my love. Take my land. Take me where I cannot stand. I don't care, I'm still free - you can't take the sky from me.

    And this is my point. Find joy in simple things. Find joy in each other, find joy in the sun in the sky and the birds chirping in the trees. Find joy in a child's first steps, spotting a couple on a first date, deer running across a meadow. They can't take those things from us. No one is that powerful.

    And things will get better - they always do! One thing I coined in one of my groups is "The Bottom Line" - we often feel like we've hit "rock bottom", but the reality is, that place is different for all of us. I took a hell of a beating before I hit my Bottom Line, but once I did, I've never looked back. I'm never going back to that place. I will scratch and claw and dig my way through hell before I let myself fall to that place again. That certitude is inside me now. It's where I let my anger reside, because it keeps it busy and distracted and then I can live my life without it.

    Right now is a great time to feel powerless. Global nuclear threats hanging over our heads, the bubble inevitably preparing to burst, be it economically or socially, there's a lot of tension. But we all know what year it is. 2018. This is a big year, for a lot of reasons, but Americans in particular know what I'm talking about. They voted a Democrat into the senate from Alabama, folks. I know we shouldn't talk politics in [chat], and so I won't linger here long, but y'all know what you're capable of now. Give 'em hell.

    The old guard is losing their grip on the reins of power, and they're getting desperate in their death throes. So they try to make us feel powerless. They try to make us question everything to the point that uncertainty paralyzes us. They try to distract us with petty nonsense that nonetheless could have a very real and very painful impact on our lives, but it's important to keep your eyes on the prize. The goalposts can not move. Equality, peace, security, health, family, love. They're simple needs, and they shouldn't have to be fought for tooth and nail, but they do. So brush your teeth and sharpen your nails, and go to work.

    The world is ours to shape. It is ours to shape. "War Is Over If You Want It", said John Lennon. "If you want to view paradise, simply look around and view it", said Roald Dahl through his character Willy Wonka. "The only thing I know for certain is that I know nothing", said Socrates, which isn't necessarily relevant but I think is still an important reminder every now and then.

    My point is, it's our time. You want change? Go make it. You want an end to corruption, to conflicts of interest, to bought-and-paid-for representatives? End it. It's our time, it's our power. They'll do everything they can to convince us that we don't have any power, that we can't see the changes we want to see, but of course they will - no one ever likes to be thrown from their heights.

    I'm optimistic. I wake up with a smile on my face, pulling on one of my four pairs of jeans and one of my six sweaters. I don't have much, and that suits me fine. Because I have enough to do the things I want to do, and more than that, I have enough that I can regularly improve my situation whenever I deem it needs improvement. And until the day comes where I feel truly stuck, I'll continue to be optimistic. Because the future is a big, empty canvass, and I know what I want it to look like right now, and I know that idea will transform as I paint it, but I'm excited to see the finished product, because I know it will be beautiful.

    Don't be scared. Fear is the mind killer, we know this. Be hopeful, be powerful, be optimistic and, together, let's change the world.

    Be good to yourself, to each other, and to our planet.

    He/Him
    Narwhal, you should make "Sometimes while someone is explaining something to me, I am thinking about rockets" your signature
    spool32SniperGuycredeiki
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    Spool, you do not have any special knowledge of communism just because you were alive when more communist states were in the news.

    ftOqU21.png
    credeikiHavelock2.0
  • Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Make Ready. We Hunt.Registered User regular
    New avatar. This is usually my Valentine's Day avatar, but fuck it, I'm in love and it's awesome.

    Di87pOF.jpg
    PSN: Hahnsoo | MHGU: Hahnsoo, Switch FC: SW-0085-2679-5212
    BogartChanusBurnagecptruggedspool32credeikiQanamilBeNarwhalTcheldorLaOs
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    Couscous wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Because proportion doesn't matter, and is a deflection. The absolute number of people in abject suffering does. An interesting and unsettling take.
    Going by absolute numbers, it is still probably better nowadays than in the past.

    I think he's taking advantage of our ignorance of ancient conditions to be fuzzy about those numbers

    Tribal groups hunting and gathering probably had a pretty decent life, apparently, and then agricultural civilization was pretty much horrible and miserable for centuries (despite being much more powerful as a kind of state) until medicine and hygiene dramatically improved

    I think a lot of continental thinkers really don't want to concede that progress does exist in less-than-purely-political areas, and cheap, effective technologies like vaccines really did make a big difference to human welfare

    Once you get as far back as the vast majority of the population being hunter gatherers, any absolute numbers comparisons should really bonkers because of the small population size.

    Trying to compare a population of over seven billion to one of maybe a hundred million is going to result in one of the populations being higher in absolute numbers almost no matter what.

    Well that's this point, right--if you go back to a point where all of humanity existed in abject ignorance and misery, it's entirely possible that their population was still lower than the number of people currently suffering.

    We also have a wild array of misconceptions and vague knowledge about ancient or prehistoric human experiences, often involving a kind of steady arc of progress, which he (and I believe most anthropologists?) would reject

    Does he have much of a line of reasoning for looking at the absolute amount of suffering instead of only looking at the absolute amount of happiness?

    The general utilitarian line of thought is that minimizing suffering is plainly more important than maximizing pleasure (no amount of happiness can "balance out" genocide or torture, for example)

    as always there are counterpoints or arguments about the details

    Evil Multifarious on
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I fucking hate you Canadians.
    Julius
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Spool, you do not have any special knowledge of communism just because you were alive when more communist states were in the news.

    Hello, police?

    zepherin
  • IlpalaIlpala Just this guy, y'know Texas booniesRegistered User regular
    Hahnsoo1 wrote: »
    New avatar. This is usually my Valentine's Day avatar, but fuck it, I'm in love and it's awesome.

    If Christmas can 'start' in November, I can give this a pass.

    FF XIV - Qih'to Furishu, Battle.Net - Ilpala#1975
    Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
    Fuck Joe Manchin
  • P10P10 An Idiot With Low IQ Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    BeNarwhal wrote: »
    On Hope, On Empowerment, and Why Optimism Isn't Naive
    Hi, friends. I'm BeNarwhal, AKA Brad, AKA Flex Dunkmaster. You may know me from other such effortposts like "Man Is Having A Home Sweet" and "A Child's Smile The First Time They See Snow Might Be The Most Magical Thing In The World".

    Today, I want to talk about Obama - err, I mean, hope. I want to talk about why we should always have hope, why having hope makes sense right now, and what you can do / where you can go to fuel your reserves of hope.

    I want to talk about empowerment, about how we, right now, are the most influential people on the planet, on the massive change we could spearhead as we move forward together, and why it's possible to feel so powerless in a world where the complete opposite is true.

    Finally, I want to talk about optimism, which is a lot like hope, but it's more like the thing that sustains you while you pursue hope. I want to talk about how it makes sense to be optimistic now and into the future, why positive, goal-driven purpose will win out, and why the powers that be want to trample on your hope and optimism.

    For most of my life, I've been fighting an internal, invisible battle. And when it first started, I was getting my ass kicked! I had no defenses. I had no idea what to do against the dark thoughts, the cynicism, the misanthropy, the perpetual fear that I wasn't good enough and that I would never be good enough. I still struggle with some of that, to be completely honest. But the darkness has largely lifted, and with it the cynicism and misanthropy. I love my fellow human now, each and every one of you. I want the best for all of you, and should you call on me and I in any way possess the ability to help lift you up, I want to be there for you.

    I have hope. I know the future is scary and uncertain. But here's the thing - that's always been true of the future, forever all the time. You can't predict the future beyond the six inches in front of your face, frankly. We can try, and we find comfort in trying, and we feel validated because we can occasionally be right - but we're wrong more often than we're right. There are a lot of people who think I should be dead. There were a lot of people who thought I WAS dead. I suspect an element of that is what continues to fuck up my relationship with my dad to this day!

    But I had hope. Even in my darkest, poorest, most challenging moments, when even my body was beginning to fail and betray me, I knew there was reason to hope. Because the future is always brighter, friends. It may not always be the ideal we imagined, but the future is, by definition, a realm of endless possibilities, and given that that is true, there is reason enough right there to have hope.

    Dan Carlin is a history podcaster. I suspect most of you have heard / heard of him. I was listening to one of his episodes of sort of "Medieval" history - the so-called "Dark Ages", while the rest of the world actually enjoyed almost synchronized Golden Ages but things were a little bit harder in Europe, and that's what really matters ... but I digress - but one thing he said stuck out to me. In the past, in any age before the Industrial Revolution, frankly, most societies, most civilizations, took it as a given that the prosperity, wealth, and progress of their times would ebb and flow. There would be ups, and there would be dizzying downs.

    We might be experiencing a down right now, I'm ready to admit that. The economy looks decent as a whole, but it's built on the back of growing inequality, desperate employees working for ever-more-greedy employers, prison-slave labour, militant uncertainty all over the globe, and sweatshops. With facts like those, we kinda should expect a low, shouldn't we? The Middle East is in wild flux, East Asia is in a constant state of brinkmanship, and of course the President of the United States hasn't helped matters with his saber-rattling rhetoric.

    But we're going to be okay, I promise you. No one wants to set off World War III, because there's no World War IV. I know things are scary and uncertain right now, and oppression grows every day, but I also know that there's a light at the end of the tunnel, because there always is - there always has been. We're human beings, gosh darn it, we've survived far worse. We survived the Mongol Hordes! We survived plague and pestilence! We survived regularly dying in childbirth because instead of medicine we thought everything was basically magic!

    So I ain't scurred. Take my love. Take my land. Take me where I cannot stand. I don't care, I'm still free - you can't take the sky from me.

    And this is my point. Find joy in simple things. Find joy in each other, find joy in the sun in the sky and the birds chirping in the trees. Find joy in a child's first steps, spotting a couple on a first date, deer running across a meadow. They can't take those things from us. No one is that powerful.

    And things will get better - they always do! One thing I coined in one of my groups is "The Bottom Line" - we often feel like we've hit "rock bottom", but the reality is, that place is different for all of us. I took a hell of a beating before I hit my Bottom Line, but once I did, I've never looked back. I'm never going back to that place. I will scratch and claw and dig my way through hell before I let myself fall to that place again. That certitude is inside me now. It's where I let my anger reside, because it keeps it busy and distracted and then I can live my life without it.

    Right now is a great time to feel powerless. Global nuclear threats hanging over our heads, the bubble inevitably preparing to burst, be it economically or socially, there's a lot of tension. But we all know what year it is. 2018. This is a big year, for a lot of reasons, but Americans in particular know what I'm talking about. They voted a Democrat into the senate from Alabama, folks. I know we shouldn't talk politics in [chat], and so I won't linger here long, but y'all know what you're capable of now. Give 'em hell.

    The old guard is losing their grip on the reins of power, and they're getting desperate in their death throes. So they try to make us feel powerless. They try to make us question everything to the point that uncertainty paralyzes us. They try to distract us with petty nonsense that nonetheless could have a very real and very painful impact on our lives, but it's important to keep your eyes on the prize. The goalposts can not move. Equality, peace, security, health, family, love. They're simple needs, and they shouldn't have to be fought for tooth and nail, but they do. So brush your teeth and sharpen your nails, and go to work.

    The world is ours to shape. It is ours to shape. "War Is Over If You Want It", said John Lennon. "If you want to view paradise, simply look around and view it", said Roald Dahl through his character Willy Wonka. "The only thing I know for certain is that I know nothing", said Socrates, which isn't necessarily relevant but I think is still an important reminder every now and then.

    My point is, it's our time. You want change? Go make it. You want an end to corruption, to conflicts of interest, to bought-and-paid-for representatives? End it. It's our time, it's our power. They'll do everything they can to convince us that we don't have any power, that we can't see the changes we want to see, but of course they will - no one ever likes to be thrown from their heights.

    I'm optimistic. I wake up with a smile on my face, pulling on one of my four pairs of jeans and one of my six sweaters. I don't have much, and that suits me fine. Because I have enough to do the things I want to do, and more than that, I have enough that I can regularly improve my situation whenever I deem it needs improvement. And until the day comes where I feel truly stuck, I'll continue to be optimistic. Because the future is a big, empty canvass, and I know what I want it to look like right now, and I know that idea will transform as I paint it, but I'm excited to see the finished product, because I know it will be beautiful.

    Don't be scared. Fear is the mind killer, we know this. Be hopeful, be powerful, be optimistic and, together, let's change the world.

    Be good to yourself, to each other, and to our planet.
    C8MESGU.png?1
    Hahnsoo1 wrote: »
    New avatar. This is usually my Valentine's Day avatar, but fuck it, I'm in love and it's awesome.
    Ibid.

    P10 on
    Shameful pursuits and utterly stupid opinions
    Hahnsoo1BeNarwhalCaptain Ultra
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    a totalitarian society, with 60s fashion for no reason except that dystopic fiction is best in 60s fashion, based on maximizing pleasure instead of minimizing suffering - a society that absolutely does subscribe to the notion that there is an amount of happiness that can balance out genocide - would be interesting

    ftOqU21.png
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Spool, you do not have any special knowledge of communism just because you were alive when more communist states were in the news.

    I will grant that it does mean you're far less likely to use "police state" erroneously than the current crop

    ftOqU21.png
    spool32
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Best way to put it, someone entering the workforce during the great recession in general lost about on average about $10,000 a year over 10 years of their earning potential.

    That is a lot of money lost in the economy and that is using normal models of wage growth and stuff from what I gather.

    03x29di.png
  • EchoEcho Moderator mod
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    a totalitarian society, with 60s fashion for no reason except that dystopic fiction is best in 60s fashion, based on maximizing pleasure instead of minimizing suffering - a society that absolutely does subscribe to the notion that there is an amount of happiness that can balance out genocide - would be interesting

    Random free association:

    f6PtD5Yl.jpg

    Echo wrote: »
    Let they who have not posted about their balls in the wrong thread cast the first stone.
    Abdhyius
  • Kid PresentableKid Presentable Registered User regular
    whoa look at Mr. Four Pairs of Jeans over here

    P10spool32BeNarwhal
  • zepherinzepherin Registered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Aioua wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Eddy wrote: »
    I think a life of crime can't be that bad, remuneratively speaking

    the NOKAS robbery, the biggest robbery in norwegian history, earned, per year in prison that was sentenced in total (171), less than they would have if they just worked in retail

    well their mistake was getting caught

    you take out a list of all the people who rob ranks, then you cross out anyone currently in prison, then you arrest the remainder

    they weren't hard to catch
    Banks are hard to rob, maybe rob an organization that isn't dedicated to stopping robberies. So much work has to go into robbing a bank. And they make 5k-7k. Honestly it seams like robbing a super store at night would net a similar amount with lower risk...

  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    a totalitarian society, with 60s fashion for no reason except that dystopic fiction is best in 60s fashion, based on maximizing pleasure instead of minimizing suffering - a society that absolutely does subscribe to the notion that there is an amount of happiness that can balance out genocide - would be interesting

    We could name it Omelas, that'd be cool.

This discussion has been closed.