at any rate I think arguments about "X region has to import Y resource, they could never split off" need to be analyzed from another angle
is region X importing resource Y because they can't make enough of that resource or because it's cheaper to import?
that's the benefit of living in a federation with pretty wide open trade! you get accesses to all the most easily exploitable resources even if they're not within your borders
With regard to water, yes the southern parts of the state literally do not have enough water on their own to sustain what they have built and have to import it. Like, the development of that entire part of the country has been contingent on securing water sources from the north and east parts of the state, as well as the Colorado River. And they've been using more than their alloted share of the Colorado River for decades, so as more development occurs upstream in Arizona and Arizona starts requiring what is legally alloted to them socal feels the pinch even more.
If this split were ever to occur that would be one of the major issues/questions. And much like brexit proponents didn't have any plan to deal with losing the whole free trade/free movement part of the EU, I doubt whoever's pushing this has an actual plan to deal with that aspect. Or else their plan is "lol the water is ours now" and they thing that will fly.... somehow. Spoilers: it won't.
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Giggles_FunsworthBlight on DiscourseBay Area SprawlRegistered Userregular
"New California" is the red / rural counties right? Because while they may have the agriculture part of the economy, they don't have the rest. Plus, Jesus have they forgotten about the whole drought issue?
I've been in favor of a California exit, as a whole, from the USA. But splitting California is dumb as fuck.
Here is a quick guide:
Is someone in the US talking about seceding? If so, they are red/rural counties.
I'd be inclined to say fuck it and let them leave, but they'd just drop taxes to zero and siphon money away from us, anyway.
Yeah. In the imaginary world where this actually goes through, New California just becomes an example of anti-tax ideals not working, and it becomes a state that needs constant federal aid. Regular California would have a better financial portfolio but it would still spend a lot of that money subsidizing portions of the country as it does now anyway.
An exit of California as a whole state would result in a California taking care of itself but Christ the USA would hurt for it. Those red states you mentioned being the ones to feel it the most. For as many problems as California has with its budget, it still manages to do its part carrying the USA, and if it was able to sever those connections it would rebound like a motherfucker.
California can't even generate enough electricity to be independent. It would flounder and fail.
Are you shitting me? We're an oil state, in addition to having a shitload of prime green energy real estate (some of which just can't be done in most of the US like geothermal and tidal). The only reason we aren't producing more energy is because it's cheaper to import.
"New California" is the red / rural counties right? Because while they may have the agriculture part of the economy, they don't have the rest. Plus, Jesus have they forgotten about the whole drought issue?
I've been in favor of a California exit, as a whole, from the USA. But splitting California is dumb as fuck.
Here is a quick guide:
Is someone in the US talking about seceding? If so, they are red/rural counties.
I'd be inclined to say fuck it and let them leave, but they'd just drop taxes to zero and siphon money away from us, anyway.
Yeah. In the imaginary world where this actually goes through, New California just becomes an example of anti-tax ideals not working, and it becomes a state that needs constant federal aid. Regular California would have a better financial portfolio but it would still spend a lot of that money subsidizing portions of the country as it does now anyway.
An exit of California as a whole state would result in a California taking care of itself but Christ the USA would hurt for it. Those red states you mentioned being the ones to feel it the most. For as many problems as California has with its budget, it still manages to do its part carrying the USA, and if it was able to sever those connections it would rebound like a motherfucker.
California can't even generate enough electricity to be independent. It would flounder and fail.
Are you shitting me? We're an oil state, in addition to having a shitload of prime green energy real estate (some of which just can't be done in most of the US like geothermal and tidal). The only reason we aren't producing more energy is because it's cheaper to import.
Hell a good number of buildings in Los Angeles itself are actually shells hiding large oil pumps.
Lol how come Santa Clara county got excluded from the yellow
They know what they did.
Of all the problems California has, this is so far down the list. There an issue with rural-urban sure, but there is in every state, might as well cut off every big city in half the states and make them their own.
The wild fires also point out something interesting, in that the central valley, like many places experiencing disasters in California over the years, got emergency workers coming in from across the state. That is one advantage of having a big state, sure its unwieldy sometimes but the resources that do exist can be used for a lot of good.
He's a shy overambitious dog-catcher on the wrong side of the law. She's an orphaned psychic mercenary with the power to bend men's minds. They fight crime!
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Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
California's energy problems have been largely market-driven
the only reason it isn't energy independent is because it has never had any reason to be
"New California" is the red / rural counties right? Because while they may have the agriculture part of the economy, they don't have the rest. Plus, Jesus have they forgotten about the whole drought issue?
I've been in favor of a California exit, as a whole, from the USA. But splitting California is dumb as fuck.
Here is a quick guide:
Is someone in the US talking about seceding? If so, they are red/rural counties.
I'd be inclined to say fuck it and let them leave, but they'd just drop taxes to zero and siphon money away from us, anyway.
Yeah. In the imaginary world where this actually goes through, New California just becomes an example of anti-tax ideals not working, and it becomes a state that needs constant federal aid. Regular California would have a better financial portfolio but it would still spend a lot of that money subsidizing portions of the country as it does now anyway.
An exit of California as a whole state would result in a California taking care of itself but Christ the USA would hurt for it. Those red states you mentioned being the ones to feel it the most. For as many problems as California has with its budget, it still manages to do its part carrying the USA, and if it was able to sever those connections it would rebound like a motherfucker.
Cali can't even generate enough electricity to be independent. It would flounder and fail.
Eh, California imports about 25% of its electricity. I'm sure it could cut a deal with Washington state. We have plenty of tidal power and it's cheap.
What is interesting though is that the western electricity interchanges don't fall exactly on state lines. The "California" electricity interchange includes part of western Nevada, but excludes part of northern California.
A new nation could not enter into an agreement of that sort with Washington State on it's own. They'd need a treaty with the USA, a thing I for one would oppose fiercely. Maybe they can just use 25% less power or something, or try and horn into NAFTA somehow despite it not being in the US interest to allow rebels and traitors to do so.
A political environment that sees California try to break away is going to include western Washington in all likelihood.
The majority of western Washington’s power generation is in eastern Washington (and Seattle City Light or Puget Sound Energy ownes it)
"New California" is the red / rural counties right? Because while they may have the agriculture part of the economy, they don't have the rest. Plus, Jesus have they forgotten about the whole drought issue?
I've been in favor of a California exit, as a whole, from the USA. But splitting California is dumb as fuck.
Here is a quick guide:
Is someone in the US talking about seceding? If so, they are red/rural counties.
I'd be inclined to say fuck it and let them leave, but they'd just drop taxes to zero and siphon money away from us, anyway.
Yeah. In the imaginary world where this actually goes through, New California just becomes an example of anti-tax ideals not working, and it becomes a state that needs constant federal aid. Regular California would have a better financial portfolio but it would still spend a lot of that money subsidizing portions of the country as it does now anyway.
An exit of California as a whole state would result in a California taking care of itself but Christ the USA would hurt for it. Those red states you mentioned being the ones to feel it the most. For as many problems as California has with its budget, it still manages to do its part carrying the USA, and if it was able to sever those connections it would rebound like a motherfucker.
Cali can't even generate enough electricity to be independent. It would flounder and fail.
Eh, California imports about 25% of its electricity. I'm sure it could cut a deal with Washington state. We have plenty of tidal power and it's cheap.
What is interesting though is that the western electricity interchanges don't fall exactly on state lines. The "California" electricity interchange includes part of western Nevada, but excludes part of northern California.
A new nation could not enter into an agreement of that sort with Washington State on it's own. They'd need a treaty with the USA, a thing I for one would oppose fiercely. Maybe they can just use 25% less power or something, or try and horn into NAFTA somehow despite it not being in the US interest to allow rebels and traitors to do so.
The only way California could 'leave the union' in such a way where who buys energy from who would still be important would be if some gigantic republican wave swept the rest of the nation and they decided to cement their eternal power by just throwing out California and New York or whatever.
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Because they make noise about this every 4-6 years just like the end-of-the-worlders do and just like them it never leads to anything.
With regard to water, yes the southern parts of the state literally do not have enough water on their own to sustain what they have built and have to import it. Like, the development of that entire part of the country has been contingent on securing water sources from the north and east parts of the state, as well as the Colorado River. And they've been using more than their alloted share of the Colorado River for decades, so as more development occurs upstream in Arizona and Arizona starts requiring what is legally alloted to them socal feels the pinch even more.
If this split were ever to occur that would be one of the major issues/questions. And much like brexit proponents didn't have any plan to deal with losing the whole free trade/free movement part of the EU, I doubt whoever's pushing this has an actual plan to deal with that aspect. Or else their plan is "lol the water is ours now" and they thing that will fly.... somehow. Spoilers: it won't.
Are you shitting me? We're an oil state, in addition to having a shitload of prime green energy real estate (some of which just can't be done in most of the US like geothermal and tidal). The only reason we aren't producing more energy is because it's cheaper to import.
Hell a good number of buildings in Los Angeles itself are actually shells hiding large oil pumps.
Yup!
There Will Be Blood takes place mostly around Los Angeles.
They know what they did.
Of all the problems California has, this is so far down the list. There an issue with rural-urban sure, but there is in every state, might as well cut off every big city in half the states and make them their own.
The wild fires also point out something interesting, in that the central valley, like many places experiencing disasters in California over the years, got emergency workers coming in from across the state. That is one advantage of having a big state, sure its unwieldy sometimes but the resources that do exist can be used for a lot of good.
the only reason it isn't energy independent is because it has never had any reason to be
The majority of western Washington’s power generation is in eastern Washington (and Seattle City Light or Puget Sound Energy ownes it)
The only way California could 'leave the union' in such a way where who buys energy from who would still be important would be if some gigantic republican wave swept the rest of the nation and they decided to cement their eternal power by just throwing out California and New York or whatever.