Maybe? He's a safe pick without any real hard counters, he can still be super useful when behind (people were playing him as support for a bit what with his ult), and he has good waveclear.
That said, he has a kind of unique skillset, and he feels pretty different than a lot of waveclear mages. I don't personally enjoy playing him, for some reason. Try him first maybe and see if you like his farm pattern.
I mean I've been maining Akali with Singed and Zilean as backs up so I think I have a pretty good handle on "not the average bear" heroes but I'm sort of souring on Zilean in general because he's sort of worthless unless you have a team that understands what he does and can take advantage of him. (I have had those teams before, and it's awesome when it happens. But I've also had teams that seemed to think bombs would hurt -them- too)
Really the first thought that passed through my mind when researching malzahar was his passive. Mid-laning against him as Akali was a nightmare cause he could take off that first bit of damage from her and he's one of the heroes that can shut her down from snowballing -hard- if you're not building your items specifically to focus on him, which isn't so bad if the entire enemy team is a bunch of squishy mages.
You should pick him up. You already play the top three most annoying champs. Pick up the fourth!
But really Malz is pretty good. Even if you can't CS or get ganked a lot he still has a lot of usefulness.
If, if Reagan played disco He'd shoot it to shit You can't disco in Jackboots
Maybe? He's a safe pick without any real hard counters, he can still be super useful when behind (people were playing him as support for a bit what with his ult), and he has good waveclear.
That said, he has a kind of unique skillset, and he feels pretty different than a lot of waveclear mages. I don't personally enjoy playing him, for some reason. Try him first maybe and see if you like his farm pattern.
I mean I've been maining Akali with Singed and Zilean as backs up so I think I have a pretty good handle on "not the average bear" heroes but I'm sort of souring on Zilean in general because he's sort of worthless unless you have a team that understands what he does and can take advantage of him. (I have had those teams before, and it's awesome when it happens. But I've also had teams that seemed to think bombs would hurt -them- too)
Really the first thought that passed through my mind when researching malzahar was his passive. Mid-laning against him as Akali was a nightmare cause he could take off that first bit of damage from her and he's one of the heroes that can shut her down from snowballing -hard- if you're not building your items specifically to focus on him, which isn't so bad if the entire enemy team is a bunch of squishy mages.
You should pick him up. You already play the top three most annoying champs. Pick up the fourth!
But really Malz is pretty good. Even if you can't CS or get ganked a lot he still has a lot of usefulness.
Yeah Malz feels like a nice safe counter to a lot of champs—Akali goes in, you r her, end of story. But he’s just not really fun to play (for me). That said, you’re playing singed and zilean and Akali so your concept of what is ‘fun’ is...well...
You should pick him up. You already play the top three most annoying champs. Pick up the fourth!
But really Malz is pretty good. Even if you can't CS or get ganked a lot he still has a lot of usefulness.
Trace didn't mention Yasuo, Kalista, or Zoe in that post.
Also: bonus XP for playing a ranked game within the next 12 days. I don't know what the second mission is because I haven't done it yet.
Yasuo is my go to champ when I want to do something stupid. Because I always get matched against a Lux, and try to windwall her ult. Then I go and int repeatedly.
I still haven't played against a Zoe that I thought was oppressive. Granted, I haven't played in a month or so.
If, if Reagan played disco He'd shoot it to shit You can't disco in Jackboots
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TraceGNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam WeRegistered Userregular
Maybe? He's a safe pick without any real hard counters, he can still be super useful when behind (people were playing him as support for a bit what with his ult), and he has good waveclear.
That said, he has a kind of unique skillset, and he feels pretty different than a lot of waveclear mages. I don't personally enjoy playing him, for some reason. Try him first maybe and see if you like his farm pattern.
I mean I've been maining Akali with Singed and Zilean as backs up so I think I have a pretty good handle on "not the average bear" heroes but I'm sort of souring on Zilean in general because he's sort of worthless unless you have a team that understands what he does and can take advantage of him. (I have had those teams before, and it's awesome when it happens. But I've also had teams that seemed to think bombs would hurt -them- too)
Really the first thought that passed through my mind when researching malzahar was his passive. Mid-laning against him as Akali was a nightmare cause he could take off that first bit of damage from her and he's one of the heroes that can shut her down from snowballing -hard- if you're not building your items specifically to focus on him, which isn't so bad if the entire enemy team is a bunch of squishy mages.
You should pick him up. You already play the top three most annoying champs. Pick up the fourth!
But really Malz is pretty good. Even if you can't CS or get ganked a lot he still has a lot of usefulness.
Yeah Malz feels like a nice safe counter to a lot of champs—Akali goes in, you r her, end of story. But he’s just not really fun to play (for me). That said, you’re playing singed and zilean and Akali so your concept of what is ‘fun’ is...well...
I have legit fun playing Singed and Akali, clutch pulls with Singed feel so good and Akali can terrify entire teams if you build her right and play her smart.
Zilean is
yeah I don't really like playing him but I needed some sort of support champ in my rotation.
Also: bonus XP for playing a ranked game within the next 12 days. I don't know what the second mission is because I haven't done it yet.
Update based on one of my friends: apparently the second mission is to finish your placements. Bonus XP for that, too--and I assume it's on the same 12-day timer.
Me elsewhere:
Steam, various fora: Ivellius
League of Legends: Doctor Ivellius
Twitch, probably another place or two I forget: LPIvellius
Do you like being overly aggressive? If so, Nami with the domination tree or press the attack.
If, if Reagan played disco He'd shoot it to shit You can't disco in Jackboots
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Red Raevynbecause I only take Bubble BathsRegistered Userregular
My wife and I had a pretty good time in preseason. She'd fallen to Bronze 4 trying to play Janna, Soraka, Karma and finally Sona. I hadn't played ranked since January when Vi was perma-banned and I'd given up (Silver V). So we aimed to get her to Silver. I switched from jg to adc so we could duo for fun and we played MF/Sona and got to Bronze I (her) and Silver I (me) with a massive win rate. Then she had a bunch of time off last week and we thought we'd push for silver5/gold5 and the game slapped us in the face.
We lost lane a couple times but we also had a few games where the team just refused to win (e.g. you're way ahead but 2 teammates are dedicated to ignoring objectives and wandering into enemy territory to die 1v3) and a few junglers with their brains in another county. It was patch 8.1 by then so the meta had changed, but it left me wondering if we were losing...
because we've climbed to harder opponents?
because of the meta shift? (hard engage supports are definitely a problem for us)
because folks aren't as caught off-guard/vulnerable to early game damage as they were in early pre-season?
just because it's normal to hit a rough streak and I'm over-analyzing?
On the one hand if we go from 78% win rate to just 50% across the last 12 games I wanna look at what's going on and fix it, but on the other I don't want to freak out and try to change things over what might just be a run of bad luck. With a couple exceptions the opponents don't seem that much better, though as we climbed there have been way more bot lane rotations/dives. The major points I'd been able to discern were that:
We'd often get our opponents very low (like 200hp or less) but be unable to actually finish them off
A 15-30 cs lead early didn't mean much if they came back and took our tower first to be able to rotate first (and/or if they outscale us which most do)
Even if we'd poked them out ahead of time Sona could still get exploded from one solid CC chain without me being able to kill the ADC
The CC supports (Leona, Alistar, Braum, Blitz) seem more useful after laning
Most (of our) junglers are totally locked in to solo lanes so we need to win lane ourselves (the amount of times I've kept the lane frozen outside my tower with enemies at half hp for 5+ minutes...)
It's pretty amazing how one good mid-roam or jungle gank to seal the deal will win us the lane and let us snowball the game, but whether you're going to get that is pretty RNG. I want to be able to win 2v2. My wife's trying Leona and enjoying it so far, and I've been experimenting with other ADCs. Jhin was my go-to before and his W would sync well with Leona but he has similar issues (bad at killing towers and pretty awful if you don't snowball out of lane), so I've been trying Caitlyn and Xayah (who is super fun). I like Trist and Twitch but don't usually do great with them in early lane.
---
Also in preseason, I wanna give a shout out to my sister who was Bronze V low-LP for the last year, 100+ games of support Zyra occasionally getting to Bronze IV and then demoting again. She switched to mid (still Zyra) and also started doing a lot of smart things (eg reading what her lane opponents abilities are before each match) and she pulled a 13 game win streak to go straight from B5 to B2. Pretty proud of her.
Are you going to place immediately or wait until elos stratify a bit?
Are you going to play solo or flex or both, and with whom?
I got to gold 3 during preseason and felt I was still climbing easily, so THIS is the season I make plat! Possibly! Maybe!
I plan on doing my placements as adc/mid (pick Trist/Sivir, ban Vayne(?); pick Lux/Xerath/Annie/Vlad, ban Zed(?)), because beginning of season elo compression means that I might need to really make my presence felt all over the map as mid rather than support. Once I get placed, I'll probably switch in between different combinations of adc and mid and support.
@Red Raevyn
I've found that I've been most successful when my duo partner isn't in my lane. That way, you and your partner--ostensibly more reliable than the rest of the team--can influence two lanes, or lane and jungle, instead of just bot. If you're both just bot, it's almost like you're soloqueing in bot--your personal influence is kinda limited to that one area. Plus you can't summon help from your friend for that critical jungle gank or roam or tp that snowballs you and your supp.
-Why are you losing now: yes, Leona into Sona is a hard time. Leona is way strong and everyone knows that across elos. Need to adapt to the meta either in your picks or bans (you and your wife could just ban Leona and Blitz and deal with playing around Thresh or Ali, for example)
-Sometimes getting your opponents to 100-200 hp is more harmful than helpful as it baits someone into disastrous towerdives and overextensions/overstay to get ganked by the enemy jungle.
-People are not always tryharding during preseason; more randomness/variance in your games. People are not always tryharding at 0 LP Gold 5, either. Or they are tryharding but tilted off the face of the planet at Silver 1 failed my Gold promos 3 times in a row etc. It's a really crappy mmr band--and my home ;_;
Are you taking first tower? What does your laning pattern look like?
I can't speak to Twitch, but Trist can do quite well early--just get used to E+Q+as many autos as you can get away with any time anyone comes remotely into range. Then jump away any time you get scared!
More hyped than I thought I'd be, actually. I blame missions.
I'll probably queue Jungle / Support. Maybe Support / Jungle solo; don't know why that feels more comfortable.
I want to Platinum again so I don't feel I've stagnated. Play Ranked more often just to see how I can climb.
I'll do placements pretty soon, but mainly because missions incentivize it.
Solo/duo and flex both for me. Galzar / Oakanater are my usual duo / flex partners if we're all around. I could see myself doing Flex with this other group I've found myself playing with lately.
Let's go, Summoners.
Ivellius on
Me elsewhere:
Steam, various fora: Ivellius
League of Legends: Doctor Ivellius
Twitch, probably another place or two I forget: LPIvellius
1. Same as always
2. Top/bot or bot/top I dunno I hate most of my supports maybe I'll one trick Brand and hate myself
3. Get whatever reward I care about, usually it's gold. Computer exploded near the end of last season so I couldn't do placements so I might do them early for once
4. I'll wait at least a little bit but I might just do flex because lol flex queue
5. Probably solo. The only friend I have that I actually can trust to be reliable and I actually play very well with has been gone for a little while, no clue what happened. Everyone else that I play with I refuse to play anything besides normals with. Depends on what the victorious skin is; Graves came with interesting colors and I think the one I liked the most was actually the flex color.
Lately I've been trying to get more comfortable with more champions. Xayah's on my list for ADC and it's really hard because I play dumb shit like Draven and Miss Fortune who are stupidly easy to last hit with and whenever I play only Draven (or MF) bot I can't last hit for a few days on anything else.
butts
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Red Raevynbecause I only take Bubble BathsRegistered Userregular
@Red Raevyn
I've found that I've been most successful when my duo partner isn't in my lane. That way, you and your partner--ostensibly more reliable than the rest of the team--can influence two lanes, or lane and jungle, instead of just bot. If you're both just bot, it's almost like you're soloqueing in bot--your personal influence is kinda limited to that one area. Plus you can't summon help from your friend for that critical jungle gank or roam or tp that snowballs you and your supp.
I agree that logic's sound buuuuut she's pretty much only ever played support with some ADC games; her game knowledge can be a little hit or miss too and she's also left-handed but learned the game using mouse her usual way (in right hand). We're slowly trying to teach her top but it has a ways to go. Definitely considering putting the time into that instead though, then I can go back to JG because I think I'm too old for ADC mechanics haha.
-Sometimes getting your opponents to 100-200 hp is more harmful than helpful as it baits someone into disastrous towerdives and overextensions/overstay to get ganked by the enemy jungle.
lol I've had that exact situation:
Level 4 Warwick decides to dive level 5 Jinx/Braum, and their 2-0 Graves is at Krugs
Immediately after WW's suicide our mid comes out of their tri-bush (trailing their Annie with her stun up). He miraculously survived and ran up river, where the freshly resurrected WW ran right back in to die to Graves again, this time with Malz.
Are you taking first tower? What does your laning pattern look like?
Rarely. (at start of climb we did). We don't get first blood or tower much, I feel like we're often going even/holding them but rarely really taking the lane. I watched the first 10-15 minutes of the games I could still replay, which was 7 of them. What I saw fit my memory pretty well:
Level 1-3 we usually win. Poke them level 1 and get wave pushing, level 2 first, and level 3 often looks like this.
At the start of the climb we'd choke them out and stomp from there. But that pretty much only works against weird lanes now (eg Xayah/Orianna), and more often after that...
Level 3-7 typically just going even.
They slowly heal back up and we go pretty even from there until something upsets it. If they're very good and aggressive this is the point where they usually turn the lane (a recent Ashe Lulu lane destroyed us after Lulu blew up Sona at 2). We're good at warding and not dying to their ganks; rarely seem to get ganks, but if we do get one or a roam from mid we usually snowball from there. What upsets it otherwise? Honestly more often than it should be that's my wife getting caught out of position; sometimes it's me eating a hook. Our biggest weakness as a duo is definitely my wife getting caught a little out of position and popping like a water balloon. Usually in ways that seem so minor. This is a good example:
I feel like we're ahead at this point. She stepped up here, I think to Q harass.
Jinx hit her with a W (unfortunately she almost never dodges skillshots which is something we need to practice) ...
and the Brand combo came out and she was dead before I could even get into range of them (you can see Jinx already running away)
At end of laning phase (10-15 minutes) we've either won lane and left or we're still stuck in lane and probably getting visits from their jg/mid. If we're still in lane late it usually doesn't go well for us.
After watching all those replays I think my biggest weakness is not trading back when I should, giving them free damage. I saw way too many times where the enemies would unload on one of us and the damage scared me/us into running away, even though they now had no cooldowns while I did (and in a few cases they included a Jhin with no ammo). If I'd traded back in many instances we would have come out even or sometimes even ahead. What feels like weakness in lane may be more related to this than being on MF.
If we get out of lane without the game being out of control we usually do well. I enjoy watching coaching and analysis videos (I've seen way too many) so I think my macro is ahead of my actual ability to play, and my wife is good with vision. That's why I'd really like to be able to win lane on our own. I think focusing on smarter trading (especially making them pay for theirs) is a good place for me to start, though I'm still thinking about whether another ADC who can take objectives faster would be better.
1. More hyped than I've been for a while, to be honest.
2. Picking Jhin/ Vayne, maybe some MF and Zoe. Queuing bot/mid.
3. Get to gold. Maybe push for plat. Land my NA account in bronze so I can repractice at top again.
4. Starting out this week.
5. Probably solo.
Two games in a row as support where I've had both a good ADC and a good Jungle. One where we played safe botlane, didn't overcommit, and ended up as the support for the other lanes. One game where the Xayah I was supporting became unto death, the destroyer of worlds. In both games, people besides me were placing pink wards.
What is this madness? This makes playing support actually enjoyable.
I can only guess what might be stalling out your climb here, but based on what you say:
MF+Sona is a very early game lane. Not like you can't win a long game with either of them, but they shine early and are usually a bit less strong later. If you are playing as MF+Sona, you should be smashing your lane. Even if you don't manage to bully them out of lane very early, you should probably be getting a kill at 6 or 7 with your ult combos, then come back with a Q that does 75% of their HP. If I were playing against MF+Sona and went even in lane (and especially never died to ult combo) I'd be happy.
If you are not wrecking your lane, possibly you should look into champions with different power curves? The meta right now is not in favor of early game harass. Everyone's taking targon's and fleet foot and healing up from poke damage; a lot of people are playing Vayne and Kog and Trist--who all have way better scaling than MF--and a lot of people are playing as engage supports (who counter Sona unless the Sona is very very agile, and even then, it's terrifying). Lots of Jhin, too, who can also destroy Sona.
If you have them really low at lvl 3, what are you doing? You have a couple options, depending on what the minions are doing and how scary the enemy jungler is. You shouldn't just keep playing as normal. You either: 1. push to their tower and harass them under tower because it's hard for them to dodge (...ok I don't know how to do this on MF+Sona without taking tower shots. On Sivir though, when they're under tower it's much easier to hit Qs that don't pass through any minions first) and because at high silver/low gold they will miss a lot of cs under tower (check their cs periodically to make sure this is happening. Sometimes people are good at it and then you have to figure out whether it seems worth it to push). MF doesn't necessarily push super fast so if you are pushing, Sona should also be autoing minions to help you out. 2. Stop pushing, ideally freezing the lane on your half of the lane, and posture aggressively. At level 3 you probably aren't standing in front of your wave or anything, but you can stand way up and let them know that if they go in to cs, you are going to give them some autos that they cannot absorb, what with having 200 HP. You can do this at the cost of your own csing, just to send a message (but try to cs still, of course).
I think one of the best things you can do as a botlane that wants to carry is to get first tower. It's good gold for your team, it demoralizes the enemy team, it gives better dragon control, and you get the momentum advantage to either go mid (...unless your mid is like 'omg don't take my cs get out of my lane i afk' and you're like '...we took our lane...') or pressure the next tier of bot tower or take dragons or simply continue to terrorize the enemy botlane if they unsafely push up. In order to get first tower, you can either: 1. consistently push in the wave, such that there's quite a bit of chip damage (don't get baited into taking tower shots or getting stunned under their tower; it's not worth it to actually auto the turret before you have gone b for the first time, tbh. Unless you are Tristana and you pop an e onto the tower and see if they'll stay in range for the explosion but even if not you get some good waveclear. Also do not stay to auto the tower after you've killed them/forced them out and pushed the lane in, unless you are definitely going to take it. Just go b.)(are you *always* pushing in the lane before you go b? Unless it's super super dangerous, you really should) 2. Play your lane conservatively, and take the tower (often with your mid or jungler) after a decisive victory. It's very frustrating when you've been doing great chip damage all lane and then they 4-man gank you and take your tower...but that doesn't happen too often, and a pushing strategy works well for me. YMMV of course.
If your wife isn't dodging skillshots, this might just be the elo you guys settle on, for now. Kinda nothing to be done about that, except being mindful and practicing a lot and playing with attention (no excuses about being old. Just don't ever read interviews with pro players where they talk about other pro players like Ambition being old, and then you look up Ambition and he's...25...). Maybe take the celerity rune under sorcery. I've found that when I play as Zyra and am not in a mindset where I can dodge skillshots at ~gold5 elo, I will die in lane, multiple times. Might still win the game, but almost certainly wouldn't as Sona, and it's an uphill battle. And also then I usually pull myself together and resolve to never die again after feeding in lane and can often stick to that resolution.
I think it's really cool that you track winrates over time and analyze your play; you guys are definitely going to keep climbing!
Did 5 Blitzcrank and 5 Leona games for my placement. One loss for each, got put top of Silver 1 for my league.
I made a bunch of friends and played the last half with a random jungler from one of my games. @credeiki I think you're right about how duo bot is not the greatest for climbing, I took care of bot lane just fine as support, dragging my adc to victory whether they played for it or not. Having a very decent jungle along with me means we can take care of ourselves and help carry the team. No defeats with that duo, most of them were pretty stompy!
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Red Raevynbecause I only take Bubble BathsRegistered Userregular
Hard agree on all points, credeiki! Thanks for the thoughts. I am shoving lane before backing. I do get unsure about whether to stay sometimes though - in top lane sometimes you'll slow push to have a big wave to fight with. I saw these examples when I was looking at my replays:
Draven had died and just resurrected so I know he's still 20+ seconds from lane.
I have vision of their JG mid and I know Blitz is backing and mid is leaving (though looking at it now, I don't know why Malz didn't circle through tri and walk down river and ult me...). I can't shove it before the next wave arrives to keep mine out of tower, but the wave is pushing out. Should I just slow push (only last hit)? Draven's probably going to get back to lane as I finish off that wave just arriving, so it feels sort of like saving the wave for him. Otoh maybe I'm looking at it wrong, and it's killing some of my minions and keeping him under tower to let me shop (and let Sona base to refill). It's when I'm full HP/mana without much gold that I'm tempted to stay and harass after the wave pushes in.
Second scenario from a few minutes later:
Again he's recalled and shopped. I'm chunked and sitting on 1442 unspent gold so I'm going to be at a big disadvantage if he gets to lane and I haven't backed. Clear these minions asap and B is my guess, is that right?
Kind of interesting to look at the ranked stats right away. In S6/S7 my first collection point was a few weeks after season start and 42/47% were in Bronze and 37/35% in Silver. Then of course Bronze shrank through the season as the higher divisions grew (to about 22% of total players at end of season). But right now (ultra early mind you, only 73k players vs 393k/242k) only 18.5% are in Bronze - 48% are in Silver. Now I'm really curious to see if Bronze swells rapidly (maybe mostly higher elo players did their placements right away) or if there will be an actual difference compared to other seasons. I wish I'd checked right at season start before!
First example:
hmmmmmm that one is tough. Certainly your support needs to b. And you think you are safe from Malzahar (although...yeah with him that close, I'd be very worried about him circling around to kill you, and I might just leave). I would blow all my mana quickly clearing the next couple of waves as fast as I could with support helping, provided you don't think Malz is going to come and kill her, then b to refill my refillable pot and pick up boots (wouldn't always prioritize boots but into blitz it's good to have that ms) or a longsword (if you build arpen MF) or a dagger (if you build a more crit build) and a vision ward or something.
I'm not sure this is *correct*, but it is what I do and I have been doing well in lane recently. People at our elo--and definitely Dravens at our elo; sometimes Vaynes are ok at it--aren't very good at wave management, so even if you have to leave before the lane fully resets and they could in theory freeze it disadvantageously, they are likely not going to.
" he's recalled and shopped. I'm chunked and sitting on 1442 unspent gold"
shove the lane and go b for sure
unless you feel unsafe shoving in which case just immediately go b
Did you win that game? Your team comp seems like you would win. Galio+Rammus taunt, you and Sona ult, gg
Steam, LoL: credeiki
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Red Raevynbecause I only take Bubble BathsRegistered Userregular
Yeah we did, though it was one where a couple teammates were really trying to prevent us from winning. We got a good early lead (Draven was 0/4 and we got towers down first) but the mid game was a bit of a circus that let Draven get back in the game (and tilted our Galio who was throwin up the /ff). Between questionable solo deaths by our top/jg deep in enemy territory and some seriously stupid deaths by me (also not remembering what happens when Draven finishes an item or two even if he was behind - I remember two times where we were finishing off a good skirmish and I didn't notice him arriving late on the flank until he'd casually deleted me) it was closer than it should have been, but after a few throws we closed it out.
Oh actually that's one I had recorded. I stream for a buddy who gets bored at work and likes to watch.
Hoo boy, played the first three placement games in Solo/Duo... and I think I might just go back to solo'ing in Flex instead. Calling them a dumpster fire would be a insult to fires. And dumpsters. I won't be able to finish the quest by switching, but it'd probably be easier on sanity.
Definitely noticing the snowball trend continuing. Heck, one game went 3 to 23. I think I was still level seven when they killed our core.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
It might just be a match-maker thing, but after I've said that I've gone now another 0-5 in placements.
Games basically have been:
Someone on the enemy team gets a kill.
Which enables them to get more kills.
Which turns them into a destroyer of worlds, and we're just trying to do anything but it feels impossible to come back sometimes. None of them have felt even close.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
3-1 so far. The support dream has to get crushed eventually.
My last team didn't understand that if you let every lane have waves constantly push against you.... you're gonna lose. They were too busy chasing for kills while only the support tried to.... counter the enemy constant push. That was a failing prospect.
Lord_AsmodeusgoeticSobriquet:Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered Userregular
I found Malzahar much less fun to play when they changed his W. I preferred the chain combo aspects of qwr-ing someone.
Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
Winter is seriously hampering my placements. It's so cold in here that it's making my fingers so stiff that I'm honestly having trouble clicking the damn mouse as much as I need to play Tristana. Gonna have to finish these out playing top or something. Or turn up the heat, but that costs money.
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TraceGNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam WeRegistered Userregular
I found Malzahar much less fun to play when they changed his W. I preferred the chain combo aspects of qwr-ing someone.
I wound up buying Zoe instead since I got lucky with blue essence. She's uh, different. In a good way, I love her quirky nature and such but boy is that q hard to land. I'd love it if they reworked how the second part of it goes cause it's a little funky right now, although I'm sure I'll get used to it an -then- they'll change it.
Anyways I'm still finding Akali to be my absolute best. More often than not I turn into a nightmarish adc/adp/half-tank mix (cause of the sustain from her passive and items) and since I never really played her before the big nerf to her e I've built a strategy out of the current version that works great, for me at least.
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Dac VinS-s-screw you! I only listen to DOUBLE MUSIC!Registered Userregular
what do you even do when you are 2/2 and your support is 0/10
rip
I am 1-3! I have been tunneling hard on things. Also not sure Rammus is actually one of my best champions, but eh.
Yeah my first couple games I went even in lane, enemy jungler was Lee Sin and was like 4-0 early off other lanes; I played ok but not in a way to carry. And yeah in the second one I had this support who was 0/5 outta lane and I just could not figure out what to do. Maybe I could have been riskier and gotten trade kills (...by jumping under tower into the Nami with R up...?) I couldn't stop pushing because I was Tristana and also feeder Brand was W harassing and catching the wave in it as well.
Last game, I put on my carry pants, got first tower (not a lot of kills in lane though--either 1/0 or just 0/0, cause Ezreal/Thresh is very safe into Tristana+Nami who doesn't ever use Q), went mid, started getting kills, but somehow just...the game didn't work. I ended 12/4 and most damage in the game against a team that included Kat, Riven, and Hec all trying to kill me, and my team with no tanks. But we lost. I dunno. One fight I R'ed prematurely and Hecarim re-engaged on us. Another one I didn't R kat out of ult fast enough. The fight near Baron I had weird positioning (got flanked, and we had no wards) and died. Honestly not sure what I could have done there--we had pretty bad macro, but I didn't feel comfortable splitting because of Hecarim. Maybe I was supposed to devise some overall strategy and shotcall? That's not really my forte, especially when focusing intensely as not dying as adc.
Probably going to queue as mid/adc today and see if I can impact games more from a different lane.
Steam, LoL: credeiki
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Lord_AsmodeusgoeticSobriquet:Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered Userregular
They're reworking Swain? As heavily as they did Warwick?
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I just had a game where I called mid, and then a jerk Ahri decided that she was going to be mid, so I went bottom as Akali with Ashe and we proceeded to rip the entire other team a new asshole.
it was basically two ADC's just ripping the shit out of the entire other team, I loved it
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You should pick him up. You already play the top three most annoying champs. Pick up the fourth!
But really Malz is pretty good. Even if you can't CS or get ganked a lot he still has a lot of usefulness.
Trace didn't mention Yasuo, Kalista, or Zoe in that post.
Also: bonus XP for playing a ranked game within the next 12 days. I don't know what the second mission is because I haven't done it yet.
Steam, various fora: Ivellius
League of Legends: Doctor Ivellius
Twitch, probably another place or two I forget: LPIvellius
Yeah Malz feels like a nice safe counter to a lot of champs—Akali goes in, you r her, end of story. But he’s just not really fun to play (for me). That said, you’re playing singed and zilean and Akali so your concept of what is ‘fun’ is...well...
Yasuo is my go to champ when I want to do something stupid. Because I always get matched against a Lux, and try to windwall her ult. Then I go and int repeatedly.
I still haven't played against a Zoe that I thought was oppressive. Granted, I haven't played in a month or so.
I have legit fun playing Singed and Akali, clutch pulls with Singed feel so good and Akali can terrify entire teams if you build her right and play her smart.
Zilean is
yeah I don't really like playing him but I needed some sort of support champ in my rotation.
Update based on one of my friends: apparently the second mission is to finish your placements. Bonus XP for that, too--and I assume it's on the same 12-day timer.
Steam, various fora: Ivellius
League of Legends: Doctor Ivellius
Twitch, probably another place or two I forget: LPIvellius
You know, besides Janna. In case she gets banned.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
We lost lane a couple times but we also had a few games where the team just refused to win (e.g. you're way ahead but 2 teammates are dedicated to ignoring objectives and wandering into enemy territory to die 1v3) and a few junglers with their brains in another county. It was patch 8.1 by then so the meta had changed, but it left me wondering if we were losing...
- because we've climbed to harder opponents?
- because of the meta shift? (hard engage supports are definitely a problem for us)
- because folks aren't as caught off-guard/vulnerable to early game damage as they were in early pre-season?
- just because it's normal to hit a rough streak and I'm over-analyzing?
On the one hand if we go from 78% win rate to just 50% across the last 12 games I wanna look at what's going on and fix it, but on the other I don't want to freak out and try to change things over what might just be a run of bad luck. With a couple exceptions the opponents don't seem that much better, though as we climbed there have been way more bot lane rotations/dives. The major points I'd been able to discern were that:- We'd often get our opponents very low (like 200hp or less) but be unable to actually finish them off
- A 15-30 cs lead early didn't mean much if they came back and took our tower first to be able to rotate first (and/or if they outscale us which most do)
- Even if we'd poked them out ahead of time Sona could still get exploded from one solid CC chain without me being able to kill the ADC
- The CC supports (Leona, Alistar, Braum, Blitz) seem more useful after laning
- Most (of our) junglers are totally locked in to solo lanes so we need to win lane ourselves (the amount of times I've kept the lane frozen outside my tower with enemies at half hp for 5+ minutes...)
It's pretty amazing how one good mid-roam or jungle gank to seal the deal will win us the lane and let us snowball the game, but whether you're going to get that is pretty RNG. I want to be able to win 2v2. My wife's trying Leona and enjoying it so far, and I've been experimenting with other ADCs. Jhin was my go-to before and his W would sync well with Leona but he has similar issues (bad at killing towers and pretty awful if you don't snowball out of lane), so I've been trying Caitlyn and Xayah (who is super fun). I like Trist and Twitch but don't usually do great with them in early lane.---
Also in preseason, I wanna give a shout out to my sister who was Bronze V low-LP for the last year, 100+ games of support Zyra occasionally getting to Bronze IV and then demoting again. She switched to mid (still Zyra) and also started doing a lot of smart things (eg reading what her lane opponents abilities are before each match) and she pulled a 13 game win streak to go straight from B5 to B2. Pretty proud of her.
How hype are you for the new season?!
What are you going to queue as for placements?
What are your season goals?
Are you going to place immediately or wait until elos stratify a bit?
Are you going to play solo or flex or both, and with whom?
I got to gold 3 during preseason and felt I was still climbing easily, so THIS is the season I make plat! Possibly! Maybe!
I plan on doing my placements as adc/mid (pick Trist/Sivir, ban Vayne(?); pick Lux/Xerath/Annie/Vlad, ban Zed(?)), because beginning of season elo compression means that I might need to really make my presence felt all over the map as mid rather than support. Once I get placed, I'll probably switch in between different combinations of adc and mid and support.
woooo let's go!
I've found that I've been most successful when my duo partner isn't in my lane. That way, you and your partner--ostensibly more reliable than the rest of the team--can influence two lanes, or lane and jungle, instead of just bot. If you're both just bot, it's almost like you're soloqueing in bot--your personal influence is kinda limited to that one area. Plus you can't summon help from your friend for that critical jungle gank or roam or tp that snowballs you and your supp.
-Why are you losing now: yes, Leona into Sona is a hard time. Leona is way strong and everyone knows that across elos. Need to adapt to the meta either in your picks or bans (you and your wife could just ban Leona and Blitz and deal with playing around Thresh or Ali, for example)
-Sometimes getting your opponents to 100-200 hp is more harmful than helpful as it baits someone into disastrous towerdives and overextensions/overstay to get ganked by the enemy jungle.
-People are not always tryharding during preseason; more randomness/variance in your games. People are not always tryharding at 0 LP Gold 5, either. Or they are tryharding but tilted off the face of the planet at Silver 1 failed my Gold promos 3 times in a row etc. It's a really crappy mmr band--and my home ;_;
Are you taking first tower? What does your laning pattern look like?
I can't speak to Twitch, but Trist can do quite well early--just get used to E+Q+as many autos as you can get away with any time anyone comes remotely into range. Then jump away any time you get scared!
Probably didn't help that the rest of the enemy team had Jax and Zac, so it felt like at any time there could be a party on your face.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
I mean, I'll play my other supports, but I just feel like I can make so many more clutch plays as the beautiful gemstone bastard.
Am I crazy that I actually want to support main? Or is the crushing reality gonna hit me eventually like it did in the past?
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
Let's go, Summoners.
Steam, various fora: Ivellius
League of Legends: Doctor Ivellius
Twitch, probably another place or two I forget: LPIvellius
2. Top/bot or bot/top I dunno I hate most of my supports maybe I'll one trick Brand and hate myself
3. Get whatever reward I care about, usually it's gold. Computer exploded near the end of last season so I couldn't do placements so I might do them early for once
4. I'll wait at least a little bit but I might just do flex because lol flex queue
5. Probably solo. The only friend I have that I actually can trust to be reliable and I actually play very well with has been gone for a little while, no clue what happened. Everyone else that I play with I refuse to play anything besides normals with. Depends on what the victorious skin is; Graves came with interesting colors and I think the one I liked the most was actually the flex color.
Lately I've been trying to get more comfortable with more champions. Xayah's on my list for ADC and it's really hard because I play dumb shit like Draven and Miss Fortune who are stupidly easy to last hit with and whenever I play only Draven (or MF) bot I can't last hit for a few days on anything else.
lol I've had that exact situation:
Immediately after WW's suicide our mid comes out of their tri-bush (trailing their Annie with her stun up). He miraculously survived and ran up river, where the freshly resurrected WW ran right back in to die to Graves again, this time with Malz.
- Level 1-3 we usually win. Poke them level 1 and get wave pushing, level 2 first, and level 3 often looks like this.
- Level 3-7 typically just going even.
I feel like we're ahead at this point. She stepped up here, I think to Q harass.
- At end of laning phase (10-15 minutes) we've either won lane and left or we're still stuck in lane and probably getting visits from their jg/mid. If we're still in lane late it usually doesn't go well for us.
After watching all those replays I think my biggest weakness is not trading back when I should, giving them free damage. I saw way too many times where the enemies would unload on one of us and the damage scared me/us into running away, even though they now had no cooldowns while I did (and in a few cases they included a Jhin with no ammo). If I'd traded back in many instances we would have come out even or sometimes even ahead. What feels like weakness in lane may be more related to this than being on MF.They slowly heal back up and we go pretty even from there until something upsets it. If they're very good and aggressive this is the point where they usually turn the lane (a recent Ashe Lulu lane destroyed us after Lulu blew up Sona at 2). We're good at warding and not dying to their ganks; rarely seem to get ganks, but if we do get one or a roam from mid we usually snowball from there. What upsets it otherwise? Honestly more often than it should be that's my wife getting caught out of position; sometimes it's me eating a hook. Our biggest weakness as a duo is definitely my wife getting caught a little out of position and popping like a water balloon. Usually in ways that seem so minor. This is a good example:
Jinx hit her with a W (unfortunately she almost never dodges skillshots which is something we need to practice) ...
and the Brand combo came out and she was dead before I could even get into range of them (you can see Jinx already running away)
If we get out of lane without the game being out of control we usually do well. I enjoy watching coaching and analysis videos (I've seen way too many) so I think my macro is ahead of my actual ability to play, and my wife is good with vision. That's why I'd really like to be able to win lane on our own. I think focusing on smarter trading (especially making them pay for theirs) is a good place for me to start, though I'm still thinking about whether another ADC who can take objectives faster would be better.
2. Picking Jhin/ Vayne, maybe some MF and Zoe. Queuing bot/mid.
3. Get to gold. Maybe push for plat. Land my NA account in bronze so I can repractice at top again.
4. Starting out this week.
5. Probably solo.
What is this madness? This makes playing support actually enjoyable.
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
I can only guess what might be stalling out your climb here, but based on what you say:
MF+Sona is a very early game lane. Not like you can't win a long game with either of them, but they shine early and are usually a bit less strong later. If you are playing as MF+Sona, you should be smashing your lane. Even if you don't manage to bully them out of lane very early, you should probably be getting a kill at 6 or 7 with your ult combos, then come back with a Q that does 75% of their HP. If I were playing against MF+Sona and went even in lane (and especially never died to ult combo) I'd be happy.
If you are not wrecking your lane, possibly you should look into champions with different power curves? The meta right now is not in favor of early game harass. Everyone's taking targon's and fleet foot and healing up from poke damage; a lot of people are playing Vayne and Kog and Trist--who all have way better scaling than MF--and a lot of people are playing as engage supports (who counter Sona unless the Sona is very very agile, and even then, it's terrifying). Lots of Jhin, too, who can also destroy Sona.
If you have them really low at lvl 3, what are you doing? You have a couple options, depending on what the minions are doing and how scary the enemy jungler is. You shouldn't just keep playing as normal. You either: 1. push to their tower and harass them under tower because it's hard for them to dodge (...ok I don't know how to do this on MF+Sona without taking tower shots. On Sivir though, when they're under tower it's much easier to hit Qs that don't pass through any minions first) and because at high silver/low gold they will miss a lot of cs under tower (check their cs periodically to make sure this is happening. Sometimes people are good at it and then you have to figure out whether it seems worth it to push). MF doesn't necessarily push super fast so if you are pushing, Sona should also be autoing minions to help you out. 2. Stop pushing, ideally freezing the lane on your half of the lane, and posture aggressively. At level 3 you probably aren't standing in front of your wave or anything, but you can stand way up and let them know that if they go in to cs, you are going to give them some autos that they cannot absorb, what with having 200 HP. You can do this at the cost of your own csing, just to send a message (but try to cs still, of course).
I think one of the best things you can do as a botlane that wants to carry is to get first tower. It's good gold for your team, it demoralizes the enemy team, it gives better dragon control, and you get the momentum advantage to either go mid (...unless your mid is like 'omg don't take my cs get out of my lane i afk' and you're like '...we took our lane...') or pressure the next tier of bot tower or take dragons or simply continue to terrorize the enemy botlane if they unsafely push up. In order to get first tower, you can either: 1. consistently push in the wave, such that there's quite a bit of chip damage (don't get baited into taking tower shots or getting stunned under their tower; it's not worth it to actually auto the turret before you have gone b for the first time, tbh. Unless you are Tristana and you pop an e onto the tower and see if they'll stay in range for the explosion but even if not you get some good waveclear. Also do not stay to auto the tower after you've killed them/forced them out and pushed the lane in, unless you are definitely going to take it. Just go b.)(are you *always* pushing in the lane before you go b? Unless it's super super dangerous, you really should) 2. Play your lane conservatively, and take the tower (often with your mid or jungler) after a decisive victory. It's very frustrating when you've been doing great chip damage all lane and then they 4-man gank you and take your tower...but that doesn't happen too often, and a pushing strategy works well for me. YMMV of course.
If your wife isn't dodging skillshots, this might just be the elo you guys settle on, for now. Kinda nothing to be done about that, except being mindful and practicing a lot and playing with attention (no excuses about being old. Just don't ever read interviews with pro players where they talk about other pro players like Ambition being old, and then you look up Ambition and he's...25...). Maybe take the celerity rune under sorcery. I've found that when I play as Zyra and am not in a mindset where I can dodge skillshots at ~gold5 elo, I will die in lane, multiple times. Might still win the game, but almost certainly wouldn't as Sona, and it's an uphill battle. And also then I usually pull myself together and resolve to never die again after feeding in lane and can often stick to that resolution.
I think it's really cool that you track winrates over time and analyze your play; you guys are definitely going to keep climbing!
Did 5 Blitzcrank and 5 Leona games for my placement. One loss for each, got put top of Silver 1 for my league.
I made a bunch of friends and played the last half with a random jungler from one of my games. @credeiki I think you're right about how duo bot is not the greatest for climbing, I took care of bot lane just fine as support, dragging my adc to victory whether they played for it or not. Having a very decent jungle along with me means we can take care of ourselves and help carry the team. No defeats with that duo, most of them were pretty stompy!
I have vision of their JG mid and I know Blitz is backing and mid is leaving (though looking at it now, I don't know why Malz didn't circle through tri and walk down river and ult me...). I can't shove it before the next wave arrives to keep mine out of tower, but the wave is pushing out. Should I just slow push (only last hit)? Draven's probably going to get back to lane as I finish off that wave just arriving, so it feels sort of like saving the wave for him. Otoh maybe I'm looking at it wrong, and it's killing some of my minions and keeping him under tower to let me shop (and let Sona base to refill). It's when I'm full HP/mana without much gold that I'm tempted to stay and harass after the wave pushes in.
Second scenario from a few minutes later:
Again he's recalled and shopped. I'm chunked and sitting on 1442 unspent gold so I'm going to be at a big disadvantage if he gets to lane and I haven't backed. Clear these minions asap and B is my guess, is that right?
Kind of interesting to look at the ranked stats right away. In S6/S7 my first collection point was a few weeks after season start and 42/47% were in Bronze and 37/35% in Silver. Then of course Bronze shrank through the season as the higher divisions grew (to about 22% of total players at end of season). But right now (ultra early mind you, only 73k players vs 393k/242k) only 18.5% are in Bronze - 48% are in Silver. Now I'm really curious to see if Bronze swells rapidly (maybe mostly higher elo players did their placements right away) or if there will be an actual difference compared to other seasons. I wish I'd checked right at season start before!
hmmmmmm that one is tough. Certainly your support needs to b. And you think you are safe from Malzahar (although...yeah with him that close, I'd be very worried about him circling around to kill you, and I might just leave). I would blow all my mana quickly clearing the next couple of waves as fast as I could with support helping, provided you don't think Malz is going to come and kill her, then b to refill my refillable pot and pick up boots (wouldn't always prioritize boots but into blitz it's good to have that ms) or a longsword (if you build arpen MF) or a dagger (if you build a more crit build) and a vision ward or something.
I'm not sure this is *correct*, but it is what I do and I have been doing well in lane recently. People at our elo--and definitely Dravens at our elo; sometimes Vaynes are ok at it--aren't very good at wave management, so even if you have to leave before the lane fully resets and they could in theory freeze it disadvantageously, they are likely not going to.
" he's recalled and shopped. I'm chunked and sitting on 1442 unspent gold"
shove the lane and go b for sure
unless you feel unsafe shoving in which case just immediately go b
Did you win that game? Your team comp seems like you would win. Galio+Rammus taunt, you and Sona ult, gg
Oh actually that's one I had recorded. I stream for a buddy who gets bored at work and likes to watch.
Definitely noticing the snowball trend continuing. Heck, one game went 3 to 23. I think I was still level seven when they killed our core.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Braum damage to champions: 11.2k
Vayne damage to champions: 8.0k
:bzz:
what do you even do when you are 2/2 and your support is 0/10
rip
I am 1-3! I have been tunneling hard on things. Also not sure Rammus is actually one of my best champions, but eh.
Steam, various fora: Ivellius
League of Legends: Doctor Ivellius
Twitch, probably another place or two I forget: LPIvellius
Games basically have been:
Someone on the enemy team gets a kill.
Which enables them to get more kills.
Which turns them into a destroyer of worlds, and we're just trying to do anything but it feels impossible to come back sometimes. None of them have felt even close.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
My last team didn't understand that if you let every lane have waves constantly push against you.... you're gonna lose. They were too busy chasing for kills while only the support tried to.... counter the enemy constant push. That was a failing prospect.
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
Xayah is the solution to every match up. No matter what.
I wound up buying Zoe instead since I got lucky with blue essence. She's uh, different. In a good way, I love her quirky nature and such but boy is that q hard to land. I'd love it if they reworked how the second part of it goes cause it's a little funky right now, although I'm sure I'll get used to it an -then- they'll change it.
Anyways I'm still finding Akali to be my absolute best. More often than not I turn into a nightmarish adc/adp/half-tank mix (cause of the sustain from her passive and items) and since I never really played her before the big nerf to her e I've built a strategy out of the current version that works great, for me at least.
Yeah my first couple games I went even in lane, enemy jungler was Lee Sin and was like 4-0 early off other lanes; I played ok but not in a way to carry. And yeah in the second one I had this support who was 0/5 outta lane and I just could not figure out what to do. Maybe I could have been riskier and gotten trade kills (...by jumping under tower into the Nami with R up...?) I couldn't stop pushing because I was Tristana and also feeder Brand was W harassing and catching the wave in it as well.
Last game, I put on my carry pants, got first tower (not a lot of kills in lane though--either 1/0 or just 0/0, cause Ezreal/Thresh is very safe into Tristana+Nami who doesn't ever use Q), went mid, started getting kills, but somehow just...the game didn't work. I ended 12/4 and most damage in the game against a team that included Kat, Riven, and Hec all trying to kill me, and my team with no tanks. But we lost. I dunno. One fight I R'ed prematurely and Hecarim re-engaged on us. Another one I didn't R kat out of ult fast enough. The fight near Baron I had weird positioning (got flanked, and we had no wards) and died. Honestly not sure what I could have done there--we had pretty bad macro, but I didn't feel comfortable splitting because of Hecarim. Maybe I was supposed to devise some overall strategy and shotcall? That's not really my forte, especially when focusing intensely as not dying as adc.
Probably going to queue as mid/adc today and see if I can impact games more from a different lane.
it was basically two ADC's just ripping the shit out of the entire other team, I loved it