AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
I've been mostly just half paying attention to Camelot. Enough to know they've been making steady progress, but not too much that I begin to hunger for all the news.
I got the same thing going on with Crowfall.
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
I'm super interested but I worry that they're taking so long that the hype might die and I won't want to play it.
I also fought off wanting to play DAoC the other day so, there's that too.
Hype is the worst thing ever to happen to games. That is kind of a horrible way to look at it.
The fact they are taking their time and not generating hype on promises they can't fulfill may be the best chance this game has. I feel like Crowfall is taking the same approach but they have done a little bit of hyping and it worries me.
Get a good game DONE and take as long as you need. People with short attention spans flock to hype and leave immediately. People will come and STAY when you just make a damn good game and let that sell your shit.
SO FUCKING MANY mmos have done the hype thing and fell flat on their face and that is mostly to blame for why the genre is dying. They keep going for that multi million player base to start and hope their monetization strategy will keep people on. It never does. Ever.
I really look forward to Crowfall more, but honestly it looks like Camelot is doing this thing much better.
I expect neither of them to beat what Warhammer: Online did, a 3-6 month burst of joy and then a rapid plunge into nothing. But I'm ok with that, I don't need a game that I can ride for five years. If I can get three months out of a cool realm MMO I'll be into it.
I will never get hyped about a small team MMO, it's just not a smart emotional investment. The odds of them competing with WoW on a shoestring budget are minuscule. The optimistic take is that they do something original and interesting to differentiate themselves at a "good enough" level of quality, and thus are able to fill a successful niche resulting in an increased budget and a much bigger team over time to build on it. For that to work it's really critical that they come up with a game concept that is fun to play without too big an investment in manpower-intensive stuff like huge worlds with lots of quests, etc. In any case, I'll believe it's worth getting excited about when I hear it from hands-on impressions.
+1
Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
Except DAOC has almost zero in common with WoW, and fills a niche that has been fairly empty for a long time. So that kind of makes no sense to say.
The closest a quality game got to that old feeling is GW2 with WvW, but I think anyone playing that said it did not compare.
The verdict is still out for this to be a quality game, but they already knew their audience and they have the setup to basically be an EVE type game (small but loyal fanbase that can keep the type of game going).
The biggest issues with MMOs are when they think they can get too big for their britches and try to have too much going on to maintain, and expect more playerbase than they will ever have.
You can run a reasonable MMO with a few thousand people tbh, it's the ones who want wow levels if income then write blank checks for features that are wacky
You can't command wow levels of income without 10+ years of game development.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Well that was a surprise. I would have thought the game would be created with the original amount that was funded including kickstarter, but 7.5 million extra is over the top.
I think the game is a little more ambitious than we originally thought.
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
I mean, it is a miracle it is still in development at this point. Making MMOs is not cheap. Manhy of those hopeful kickstarer attempts have failed because they figured that out a few years into development. I would assume Crowfall has done something similar by this point because there is no way that is still going as well without a boost.
Also, giving dates for MMO development is also equally foolish. Of COURSE they missed their set date, based on when the kickstarter started that date given was INSANE.
Amusingly enough, as a backer of CU, I just this weekend poured $80 into Crowfall. As a point of interest it looks like Crowfall is about $20M into development right now. That seems like a lot for a niche game! But as has been very correctly stated Making MMOs is not cheap.
Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
Oh I didn't know Crowfall was up to 24x7 beta access now. Interesting.
I felt like that game had the highest chance of doing something special with the ole MMO genre. GW2 was the most successful at that a while ago. I think Crowfall could do something on a smaller scale that uses Multiplayer FPS type community sizes to keep a game going strong.
As long as they don't make the same stupid mistake all MMOs do of trying to become as successful as WoW, they will likely succeed.
I am always annoyed by the "programmers are so hard to find" type stuff.
Pro tip to mark jacobs: programmers know how the game dev field is and won't deal with endless crunch times without 6+ figure paychecks.
Yeah, programmers are almost everywhere, but I can't personally speak for Virginia. It's harder getting programmers with years of prior game dev experience to relocate to Fairfax, Virginia for the lowest possible salary you can offer without getting laughed at. Anytime you hear a line like that you can usually replace "find" with "pay."
They could probably do it if they were willing to hire remote too. Especially working for a company without name recognition. That's a hard sell without massive paychecks.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
I am always annoyed by the "programmers are so hard to find" type stuff.
Pro tip to mark jacobs: programmers know how the game dev field is and won't deal with endless crunch times without 6+ figure paychecks.
Yeah, programmers are almost everywhere, but I can't personally speak for Virginia. It's harder getting programmers with years of prior game dev experience to relocate to Fairfax, Virginia for the lowest possible salary you can offer without getting laughed at. Anytime you hear a line like that you can usually replace "find" with "pay."
I used to live in Fairfax and programmers are everywhere. And salaries are quite high in that area, too. But maybe not a lot of programmers with game dev experience?
My experience has been East Coast have loads of Microsoft stack windows devs earning insane pay on traditional, business-y Sharepoint type stuff, while West Coast (outside of Microsoft and Intel) has a lot more Open Source guys doing all kinds of weird stuff for all kinds of pay. There are also the startups burning insane amounts of capital and burning out in a year or two. Jumping around startups is a lot more attractive than crunching on a game for two years. Outside of Seattle and San Francisco, things are still pretty reasonable. I've hired more than one guy burnt out on games who just wants a steady paycheck without overtime.
Mark has a reputation for being kind of "hard to work with" in the industry too. I mean, he's a really smart guy, almost a savant at character design and game balance, but all of the anecdotal drawbacks to being a savant apply too.
So I'm a backer of this but have not had time to devote to it. (Much to my chagrin.) Is there a quick-start guide somewhere that tells me how to update/install this in preparation for the actual beta beta? I did play once in one of the alpha phases (for about 15 minutes) and I think I still have the loader/patcher somewhere, but it can't possibly be as easy as patch/install/play! This is an MMO after all heh
Someday they will lift the NDA for beta. Until then, you can join everyone on the discord and randomly test the game if you buy into backers.
Also, the reason this thread isn't updated is because everyone's posting on new fancy forums for everyone who has a backer tier.
A month before beta, we had a ton of people sign up for beta 1 and join discord. We have hundreds of people on there and a nice community that chats as well.
Also, Beta 2 was officially added to the daily invitations to test the game.
Roe on
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FairchildRabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?"Registered Userregular
Every time that I see how much art needs to be created for even a basic little MMO, I agree with GW2's decision to go with their splashy watercolor aesthetic, just to cut down on the art requirements.
It's been a while since I've posted. CSE has been under flak now for announcing a new title being made in the CU engine before CU was in many fan's opinions, even close to finished.
MJ made a video trying to calm fans down and shedding some light on the future of Camelot Unchained. Still, many people are still arguing on the official forums and reddit about the fate of CU and the faithfulness of CSE to the project.
I personally believe they will complete the project, but the announcement did dishearten me about how CSE is going about making a new game from funding given through kickstarter. The players did in fact, fund CU, not their new project.
The new project will the the CU engine, but time will tell if they have drilled a hole in the ship that is their very own company, only to flood instead of add a new addition in that very hole.
+2
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
Ugh, yeah, I saw that too. They've said they didn't use any crowd sourced money, but I don't think that's really the main issue with people.
CSE is a small studio (less than 50 people last I checked). Even if the new thing uses all the same assets they still have to split their small team up. That's certainly not a good look.
But I backed the game forever ago and I'm content to wait. If things pan out then great, if not then oh well I suppose. That's the risk you take with Kickstarters.
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
Posts
I got the same thing going on with Crowfall.
Hype is the worst thing ever to happen to games. That is kind of a horrible way to look at it.
The fact they are taking their time and not generating hype on promises they can't fulfill may be the best chance this game has. I feel like Crowfall is taking the same approach but they have done a little bit of hyping and it worries me.
Get a good game DONE and take as long as you need. People with short attention spans flock to hype and leave immediately. People will come and STAY when you just make a damn good game and let that sell your shit.
SO FUCKING MANY mmos have done the hype thing and fell flat on their face and that is mostly to blame for why the genre is dying. They keep going for that multi million player base to start and hope their monetization strategy will keep people on. It never does. Ever.
I really look forward to Crowfall more, but honestly it looks like Camelot is doing this thing much better.
The closest a quality game got to that old feeling is GW2 with WvW, but I think anyone playing that said it did not compare.
The verdict is still out for this to be a quality game, but they already knew their audience and they have the setup to basically be an EVE type game (small but loyal fanbase that can keep the type of game going).
The biggest issues with MMOs are when they think they can get too big for their britches and try to have too much going on to maintain, and expect more playerbase than they will ever have.
You can't command wow levels of income without 10+ years of game development.
http://massivelyop.com/2018/01/18/camelot-unchained-investment-mark-jacobs-interview-vr-beta-one/
I think the game is a little more ambitious than we originally thought.
Also, giving dates for MMO development is also equally foolish. Of COURSE they missed their set date, based on when the kickstarter started that date given was INSANE.
https://crowfall.com/en/funding/
I felt like that game had the highest chance of doing something special with the ole MMO genre. GW2 was the most successful at that a while ago. I think Crowfall could do something on a smaller scale that uses Multiplayer FPS type community sizes to keep a game going strong.
As long as they don't make the same stupid mistake all MMOs do of trying to become as successful as WoW, they will likely succeed.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-01-19-why-the-people-behind-crowdfunded-camelot-unchained-wont-sell-spaceships-or-castles
It makes me a lot more interested in this game.
Pro tip to mark jacobs: programmers know how the game dev field is and won't deal with endless crunch times without 6+ figure paychecks.
Yeah, programmers are almost everywhere, but I can't personally speak for Virginia. It's harder getting programmers with years of prior game dev experience to relocate to Fairfax, Virginia for the lowest possible salary you can offer without getting laughed at. Anytime you hear a line like that you can usually replace "find" with "pay."
I used to live in Fairfax and programmers are everywhere. And salaries are quite high in that area, too. But maybe not a lot of programmers with game dev experience?
maybe none that'll do it for $20 an hour though
Also on Steam and PSN: twobadcats
Open beta is after 3 I believe. Currently you can buy into beta 2 for 35$, but beta 1 will cost you 60$. It's more of a pre-order than anything.
Also, the reason this thread isn't updated is because everyone's posting on new fancy forums for everyone who has a backer tier.
A month before beta, we had a ton of people sign up for beta 1 and join discord. We have hundreds of people on there and a nice community that chats as well.
Also, Beta 2 was officially added to the daily invitations to test the game.
MJ made a video trying to calm fans down and shedding some light on the future of Camelot Unchained. Still, many people are still arguing on the official forums and reddit about the fate of CU and the faithfulness of CSE to the project.
I personally believe they will complete the project, but the announcement did dishearten me about how CSE is going about making a new game from funding given through kickstarter. The players did in fact, fund CU, not their new project.
The new project will the the CU engine, but time will tell if they have drilled a hole in the ship that is their very own company, only to flood instead of add a new addition in that very hole.
CSE is a small studio (less than 50 people last I checked). Even if the new thing uses all the same assets they still have to split their small team up. That's certainly not a good look.
But I backed the game forever ago and I'm content to wait. If things pan out then great, if not then oh well I suppose. That's the risk you take with Kickstarters.