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[Russia/US Investigation thread] More indictments, Schiff memo released

So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
edited February 2018 in Debate and/or Discourse
This thread is for talking about:

The election interference and collusion investigation, both in the FBI and congress.
The firing of James Comey, and continuing fallout of it.
The special counsel, Robert Mueller and his investigation, et all.
Any further claims about wiretapping of Donald Trump.

Things we will not be talking about:

Impeachment, until further notice. So far this includes a lot of speculation with the investigation itself remaining unresolved, so we're leaving it off the table until a notable event happens.
The definition of treason/whether Trump et al can be charged with it. Off the table unless we see that charge on paper.
The media.

______________

DO NOT POST SETH ABRAMSON TWITTER THREADS IN HERE WITHOUT CORROBORATION FROM RELIABLE SOURCES.

Identify all twitter authors. Don't post from dubious sources or random accounts.

Posts with tweets in them must contain additional content from the post author.

Take it easy on dumping dumb conspiracy theories in here.

______________

Reminder: Watergate comparison/discussion is on topic here, but don't get too into the weeds on it.


Latest news at the time of OP:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/25/us/politics/trump-mueller-special-counsel-russia.html

So It Goes on
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    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    Odd trump tries again just to prove what a big man he is?

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    So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    This is my favorite part of the article. Reason that Trump claimed Mueller had a conflict of interest:
    First, he claimed that a dispute years ago over fees at Trump National Golf Club in Sterling, Va., had prompted Mr. Mueller, the F.B.I. director at the time, to resign his membership.

    He quit my golf club wahhhh

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    No-QuarterNo-Quarter Nothing To Fear But Fear ItselfRegistered User regular
    Wait.

    What.

    WHAT

    WHAT?!

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    HakkekageHakkekage Space Whore Academy summa cum laudeRegistered User regular
    CNN is certainly treating this like big breaking news. Maggie Haberman called into Anderson Cooper and said that she has 4 sources and that the White House has spent the last 7 months lying about how they have not tried anything to interfere with Mueller’s investigation

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    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    Maggie haberman is Ivanka and Jared’s PR manager

    Take anything she says with a mountain of salt

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    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    The term stupid Watergate fits better everyday

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    SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    Hakkekage wrote: »
    CNN is certainly treating this like big breaking news. Maggie Haberman called into Anderson Cooper and said that she has 4 sources and that the White House has spent the last 7 months lying about how they have not tried anything to interfere with Mueller’s investigation

    What?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!???!?!?!?!?!?!?!?????!!?!??!??!?!?!?!!!!!?!!??!??????????!

    SyphonBlue on
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    Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    We should probably include that story about Dutch Intelligence confirming they witnessed the Russians hack the DNC in the OP too. Because that’s another big development.

    *edit* Or I could just link to it myself since I’m right here on Page one... This is in Dutch.

    Desktop Hippie on
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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    Desktop Hippie wrote: »
    We should probably include that story about Dutch Intelligence confirming they witnessed the Russians hack the DNC in the OP too. Because that’s another big development.
    I'm waiting for Trump to condemn the Dutch over this, stupidly showing his allegiance to the Russians.

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    davidsdurionsdavidsdurions Your Trusty Meatshield Panhandle NebraskaRegistered User regular
    I’m not surprised by anything in the news today. I’ll be shocked, stunned, flabbergasted when the news breaks of consequences being doled out.

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    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    The twitter meltdown will be good

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    SavantSavant Simply Barbaric Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    nexuscrawler wrote: »
    Maggie haberman is Ivanka and Jared’s PR manager

    Take anything she says with a mountain of salt

    Flip side of that: Haberman's sources are Trump's courtiers, and a bunch of Trump's courtiers are either being targeted by Mueller or have been interviewed by his team recently. Said courtiers may be starting to get deathly afraid that their futures may include stays in Federal prison, and those worries may be trumping any loyalty to Trump.

    Remember, the Watergate scandal didn't just end in Nixon's resignation. Tons of Nixon's underlings went to prison for their role in it.

    Savant on
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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Just...Jesus tap-dancing Christ

    I wonder who will play Robert Bork this time around when he finally decides to massacre everyone.

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    Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    Trump’s base: “RELEASE THE MEMO!”
    Manafort’s lawyers: “Here’s Paul’s defense strategy.”
    Trump’s base: “No, not that memo. We want the huge scandal.”
    Dutch Intelligence: “Proof Russia hacked the DNC?”
    Trump’s base: “No, not that either.”
    NYT: “Trump fired Mueller! But then backed down because reality hit.”
    Trump’s base: “OMG STOP!”

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    No-QuarterNo-Quarter Nothing To Fear But Fear ItselfRegistered User regular
    After receiving the president’s order to fire Mr. Mueller, the White House counsel, Donald F. McGahn II, refused to ask the Justice Department to dismiss the special counsel, saying he would quit instead, the people said. They spoke on the condition of anonymity because they did not want to be identified discussing a continuing investigation.

    Mr. McGahn disagreed with the president’s case and told senior White House officials that firing Mr. Mueller would have a catastrophic effect on Mr. Trump’s presidency. Mr. McGahn also told White House officials that Mr. Trump would not follow through on the dismissal on his own. The president then backed off.

    OOOoooooooooooooooooOOOooooooo!

    oo!

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    OghulkOghulk Tinychat Janitor TinychatRegistered User regular
    Matt Fuller is a congressional reporter for the Huffington Post

    Sean Hannity has no integrity

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    SavantSavant Simply Barbaric Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    moniker wrote: »
    Just...Jesus tap-dancing Christ

    I wonder who will play Robert Bork this time around when he finally decides to massacre everyone.

    We might not ever get a Bork analog if the stories about Wray and McGahn are fully true. Trump already tried to do Saturday Night Massacres, and backed down when his underlings said they would take the Attorney General Richardson and Deputy Attorney General William Ruckelshaus roles by resigning instead.

    If the shit truly hits the fan, something else entirely might happen. I doubt Trump has been studying Nixon's playbook trying to figure out what did and didn't work for him, he is just falling into the same pattern because he has a similar authoritarian crook style of "leadership."

    Savant on
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    KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    After receiving the president’s order to fire Mr. Mueller, the White House counsel, Donald F. McGahn II, refused to ask the Justice Department to dismiss the special counsel, saying he would quit instead, the people said. They spoke on the condition of anonymity because they did not want to be identified discussing a continuing investigation.

    Mr. McGahn disagreed with the president’s case and told senior White House officials that firing Mr. Mueller would have a catastrophic effect on Mr. Trump’s presidency. Mr. McGahn also told White House officials that Mr. Trump would not follow through on the dismissal on his own. The president then backed off.

    OOOoooooooooooooooooOOOooooooo!

    oo!

    what a beta

    Twitter
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    OghulkOghulk Tinychat Janitor TinychatRegistered User regular
    CNN Tonight is the twitter account for a television show

    Kaitlin Collins is the White House reporter for CNN, and is 100% right to call them liars

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    SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    Oghulk wrote: »
    CNN Tonight is the twitter account for a television show

    Kaitlin Collins is the White House reporter for CNN, and is 100% right to call them liars


    Oh, dear, the President has spent a lot more than just the past seven months lying.

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    PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Oghulk wrote: »
    CNN Tonight is the twitter account for a television show

    Kaitlin Collins is the White House reporter for CNN, and is 100% right to call them liars


    Trump is gonna fucking lose it on twitter soon.

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    So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    KalTorak wrote: »
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    After receiving the president’s order to fire Mr. Mueller, the White House counsel, Donald F. McGahn II, refused to ask the Justice Department to dismiss the special counsel, saying he would quit instead, the people said. They spoke on the condition of anonymity because they did not want to be identified discussing a continuing investigation.

    Mr. McGahn disagreed with the president’s case and told senior White House officials that firing Mr. Mueller would have a catastrophic effect on Mr. Trump’s presidency. Mr. McGahn also told White House officials that Mr. Trump would not follow through on the dismissal on his own. The president then backed off.

    OOOoooooooooooooooooOOOooooooo!

    oo!

    what a beta

    Let's try to keep the bar for the caliber of posts in this thread a little further above this, please.

    So It Goes on
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    dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    Oghulk wrote: »
    CNN Tonight is the twitter account for a television show

    Kaitlin Collins is the White House reporter for CNN, and is 100% right to call them liars

    Tweetquote (editted out for space)

    The only thing anyone who having a discussion can do when someone says, "Trump's a goddamn liar!" is nod. If you do not nod in agreement, you're delusional, a liar yourself or incapable of interacting with the reality in which we all live in any meaningful way. That people will surely act like this is somehow preposterous should make everyone just a little sad.

    It's the same reason him claiming he totally wants to talk to Mueller under oath doesn't mean he wont lie continuously. The entire idea of an oath is kind of ridiculous anyway.

    dispatch.o on
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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    So let me get this straight. Mr "Your fired", Mr "Make america great again" wanted to get rid of his special investigator and then backed down when lesser people told him no? That's what this president is? A paper coward?

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/25/trump-mueller-fired-order-report-370807
    Lawyers involved with Mueller’s investigation viewed the report as a potentially ominous sign.

    “It’s one more brick in the wall,” said a Washington lawyer representing another senior Trump aide in the Russia probe who added that the most interesting aspect of the Trump-Mueller story to him was that “people are leaking this shit.”

    “That is a sign to me people perceive this ship has sprung a leak and it’s time to make themselves look good,” the attorney said. “To some extent I think the fact of the leaking is almost the most significant, that we’ve reached an inflection point where people at the center of things feel the need to redeem themselves at the expense of the president.”
    That is a lawyer representing a senior Trump aide basically saying we are at the point where people need to help themselves by hurting the president.

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    Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    dispatch.o wrote: »
    Oghulk wrote: »
    CNN Tonight is the twitter account for a television show

    Kaitlin Collins is the White House reporter for CNN, and is 100% right to call them liars

    Tweetquote (editted out for space)

    The only thing anyone who having a discussion can do when someone says, "Trump's a goddamn liar!" is nod. If you do not nod in agreement, you're delusional, a liar yourself or incapable of interacting with the reality in which we all live in any meaningful way. That people will surely act like this is somehow preposterous should make everyone just a little sad.

    It's the same reason him claiming he totally wants to talk to Mueller under oath doesn't mean he wont lie continuously. The entire idea of an oath is kind of ridiculous anyway.

    I mean... didn’t Trump spent almost his entire first day in office claiming more people went to his inauguration than Obama’s? I have a distinct memory of him doing that. In the CIA building, in front of their memorial wall.

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    ZekZek Registered User regular
    I'm doubtful that this matters in terms of consequences. The GOP is going to settle on the talking point of "yeah he thought about it, but was advised not to and he listened, that's what advisers are for." This isn't enough of a smoking gun to change anybody's minds. Best case it might help Mueller build a case for obstruction, but IANAL.

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    never dienever die Registered User regular
    Oghulk wrote: »
    Matt Fuller is a congressional reporter for the Huffington Post

    Sean Hannity has no integrity


    Jeez, watching the video is even worse, because he literally says at the end that it's "eh maybe" shrugs, says its not important and they'll cover it tomorrow, what is more important is the high speed chase from some cops in Arizona that ended in a car wreck by the suspect. Literally trying to distract people with the horrific wreck.

    It's frustrating cause while this news is shocking, I'm waiting to see what, if any response, we'll get from the people who can actually do something about it immediately, like Congress.

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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Zek wrote: »
    I'm doubtful that this matters in terms of consequences. The GOP is going to settle on the talking point of "yeah he thought about it, but was advised not to and he listened, that's what advisers are for." This isn't enough of a smoking gun to change anybody's minds. Best case it might help Mueller build a case for obstruction, but IANAL.

    Severely hurts his tough guy image. He literally backed down to his lessers when they told him they wouldn't follow his orders. Among the right this will hurt his cult of personality.

    Also as highlighted above it boosts the two people who said no directly at his expense and shows a pattern of his obstruction.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    OghulkOghulk Tinychat Janitor TinychatRegistered User regular
    The fact that we found out about this 7 months after the fact just goes to show we have no idea how many lawless things this president has attempted to do

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    XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    never die wrote: »
    Oghulk wrote: »
    Matt Fuller is a congressional reporter for the Huffington Post

    Sean Hannity has no integrity


    Jeez, watching the video is even worse, because he literally says at the end that it's "eh maybe" shrugs, says its not important and they'll cover it tomorrow, what is more important is the high speed chase from some cops in Arizona that ended in a car wreck by the suspect. Literally trying to distract people with the horrific wreck.

    It's frustrating cause while this news is shocking, I'm waiting to see what, if any response, we'll get from the people who can actually do something about it immediately, like Congress.

    edit:

    Congress will not (nor will they ever) do anything to trump at this point. They're far too deep in for that. If they backed off trump, every single one would be immediately primaried by their insane base. We're in this till 2020 come hell or high water.

    Xaquin on
    Fixer Restorations -/- Satan's Wish List!!!!
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    SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    Savant wrote: »
    nexuscrawler wrote: »
    Maggie haberman is Ivanka and Jared’s PR manager

    Take anything she says with a mountain of salt

    Flip side of that: Haberman's sources are Trump's courtiers, and a bunch of Trump's courtiers are either being targeted by Mueller or have been interviewed by his team recently. Said courtiers may be starting to get deathly afraid that their futures may include stays in Federal prison, and those worries may be trumping any loyalty to Trump.

    Remember, the Watergate scandal didn't just end in Nixon's resignation. Tons of Nixon's underlings went to prison for their role in it.

    For barely a year and change. I think the longest was like 19 months

    steam_sig.png
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    DiplominatorDiplominator Hardcore Porg Registered User regular
    It surprises me some that everyone's making a fuss about this. It was months ago and I'm not really shocked at all. Of course he tried to fire Mueller and of course someone told him no. We might not have had anything so quaint as confirmation, but I'm still not shocked.

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    I'm hopeful this will help with the DACA negotiations by weakening the GOP position in the media.

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    Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Diplominator wrote: »
    It surprises me some that everyone's making a fuss about this. It was months ago and I'm not really shocked at all. Of course he tried to fire Mueller and of course someone told him no. We might not have had anything so quaint as confirmation, but I'm still not shocked.

    He’s probably tried to use nukes too

    I agree the more significant thing is the leak itself rather than the contents of it

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    So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    never die wrote: »
    Oghulk wrote: »
    Matt Fuller is a congressional reporter for the Huffington Post

    Sean Hannity has no integrity


    Jeez, watching the video is even worse, because he literally says at the end that it's "eh maybe" shrugs, says its not important and they'll cover it tomorrow, what is more important is the high speed chase from some cops in Arizona that ended in a car wreck by the suspect. Literally trying to distract people with the horrific wreck.

    It's frustrating cause while this news is shocking, I'm waiting to see what, if any response, we'll get from the people who can actually do something about it immediately, like Congress.

    nothing.

    Again let's try to have substantive posts that contribute to discussion in here. One word posts are rarely going to meet that goal.

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    So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    I'm hopeful this will help with the DACA negotiations by weakening the GOP position in the media.

    Off topic for this thread.

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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Diplominator wrote: »
    It surprises me some that everyone's making a fuss about this.

    You do realize the implications of the President unilaterally ending an investigation into his own potentially illegal actions, right?

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    XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Diplominator wrote: »
    It surprises me some that everyone's making a fuss about this.

    You do realize the implications of the President unilaterally ending an investigation into his own potentially illegal actions, right?

    we all do, sure

    and honestly, so does congress, but (I changed my one word post above) they won't do anything.

    Fixer Restorations -/- Satan's Wish List!!!!
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    SavantSavant Simply Barbaric Registered User regular
    Spoit wrote: »
    Savant wrote: »
    nexuscrawler wrote: »
    Maggie haberman is Ivanka and Jared’s PR manager

    Take anything she says with a mountain of salt

    Flip side of that: Haberman's sources are Trump's courtiers, and a bunch of Trump's courtiers are either being targeted by Mueller or have been interviewed by his team recently. Said courtiers may be starting to get deathly afraid that their futures may include stays in Federal prison, and those worries may be trumping any loyalty to Trump.

    Remember, the Watergate scandal didn't just end in Nixon's resignation. Tons of Nixon's underlings went to prison for their role in it.

    For barely a year and change. I think the longest was like 19 months

    I think some were longer sentences, though for the top guys they weren't that long. Former AG Mitchell served like 18 or 19 months before getting paroled for health reasons, but his sentence was longer than that.

    Federal prison isn't a very good bullet point on your resume, though, regardless if it is a short term in Club Fed. It'll make these guys dependent on wingnut welfare, and I imagine at least some of these guys have aspirations higher than a Fox News commentator slot, as not all of them are as old as Trump or Sessions.

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