although I am still at a loss as to Benton's position and his likely pay. may have to look up some show summaries tomorrow, they may explain at least the former
Ah right and he makes somewhere between 50-55K after having made 0 as a med student.
It was completely unreasonable during the first year of his residency (also confusingly called intern year) where he was on call a lot more and just working like 80 hour weeks, which made his salary hourly less than minimum wage
but holy fuck starting attendings make like 200K so uh
worth
how many years spent studying instead of earning, plus what amount of student loans, does that have to weigh up for
in the US: 4 years college+4 years med school. Then 4 years of residency (in psych, more if surgery, one less for internal medicine?) at ~50K income.
College prices+debts hugely depend on a person's family situation and choice of college. I knew a lot of low-income folks who got full rides to Amherst. But then I also knew a lot of rich people paying $45K a year for it (their families, though--not them). But other colleges are much cheaper.
My husband's parents paid for his med school tuition, and also it was in-state so a lot cheaper. I think out of state tuition runs to about 50K a year?
Some people are going to become doctors no matter what. A lot of people (like my spouse) are hereditary doctors and come from money.
everything about medicine in america seems monumentally stupid and designed to be as expensive as possible
life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
+1
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
although I am still at a loss as to Benton's position and his likely pay. may have to look up some show summaries tomorrow, they may explain at least the former
Ah right and he makes somewhere between 50-55K after having made 0 as a med student.
It was completely unreasonable during the first year of his residency (also confusingly called intern year) where he was on call a lot more and just working like 80 hour weeks, which made his salary hourly less than minimum wage
but holy fuck starting attendings make like 200K so uh
worth
how many years spent studying instead of earning, plus what amount of student loans, does that have to weigh up for
no matter what you compare it to it's going to be worth it after not too long
although I am still at a loss as to Benton's position and his likely pay. may have to look up some show summaries tomorrow, they may explain at least the former
Ah right and he makes somewhere between 50-55K after having made 0 as a med student.
It was completely unreasonable during the first year of his residency (also confusingly called intern year) where he was on call a lot more and just working like 80 hour weeks, which made his salary hourly less than minimum wage
but holy fuck starting attendings make like 200K so uh
worth
how many years spent studying instead of earning, plus what amount of student loans, does that have to weigh up for
~40-50k for 4 years, plus Cost of living, expenses, iirc
wait what you guys have just 4 years for medical school? here it's six
We are ridiculously privileged in not having student loans. Mine were only 4 figures and I wiped them out with my grad school income. Husband's family didn't let him take on any so he just didn't have them.
although I am still at a loss as to Benton's position and his likely pay. may have to look up some show summaries tomorrow, they may explain at least the former
Ah right and he makes somewhere between 50-55K after having made 0 as a med student.
It was completely unreasonable during the first year of his residency (also confusingly called intern year) where he was on call a lot more and just working like 80 hour weeks, which made his salary hourly less than minimum wage
but holy fuck starting attendings make like 200K so uh
worth
how many years spent studying instead of earning, plus what amount of student loans, does that have to weigh up for
~40-50k for 4 years, plus Cost of living, expenses, iirc
wait what you guys have just 4 years for medical school? here it's six
But do people do medical school instead of undergrad like they do in some countries? And how long is the residency (if there is residency?)
although I am still at a loss as to Benton's position and his likely pay. may have to look up some show summaries tomorrow, they may explain at least the former
Ah right and he makes somewhere between 50-55K after having made 0 as a med student.
It was completely unreasonable during the first year of his residency (also confusingly called intern year) where he was on call a lot more and just working like 80 hour weeks, which made his salary hourly less than minimum wage
but holy fuck starting attendings make like 200K so uh
worth
how many years spent studying instead of earning, plus what amount of student loans, does that have to weigh up for
~40-50k for 4 years, plus Cost of living, expenses, iirc
wait what you guys have just 4 years for medical school? here it's six
But do people do medical school instead of undergrad like they do in some countries? And how long is the residency (if there is residency?)
Yeah, that’s after 4-5 years of undergrad, which ranges from free to 40k.
although I am still at a loss as to Benton's position and his likely pay. may have to look up some show summaries tomorrow, they may explain at least the former
Ah right and he makes somewhere between 50-55K after having made 0 as a med student.
It was completely unreasonable during the first year of his residency (also confusingly called intern year) where he was on call a lot more and just working like 80 hour weeks, which made his salary hourly less than minimum wage
but holy fuck starting attendings make like 200K so uh
worth
how many years spent studying instead of earning, plus what amount of student loans, does that have to weigh up for
i read while googling about resident salaries that the average md has ~150k in student loans. 4 years of undergrad, 4 years of med school, then an avg of 5 years of residency for a specialty beyond general practice? so if you're comparing it to the ocmmon undergrad jerb prospective... that's 9 extra years. say 10 years, if we're gonna dedicate an entire post tax year of salary to paying off that 150.
so avg bachelor's degree holding person enters job market at 21, 22? works for 43 years? avg 5 year residency starts working at like 32? so 33 years?
33 * 200k with no raises = 6.6 million dollars
43 years of work to reach 6.6 million means an average of 153,400 dollars a year over their lifetime
i'm p sure most fields don't even top out at 153,400 per year, let alone average that over a career (and this is assuming 0 raises for the physician)
of course this discards malpractice insurance but i'm p sure that if all you care about is the money, physicians still end up well in front of the vast majority of professions
although I am still at a loss as to Benton's position and his likely pay. may have to look up some show summaries tomorrow, they may explain at least the former
Ah right and he makes somewhere between 50-55K after having made 0 as a med student.
It was completely unreasonable during the first year of his residency (also confusingly called intern year) where he was on call a lot more and just working like 80 hour weeks, which made his salary hourly less than minimum wage
but holy fuck starting attendings make like 200K so uh
worth
how many years spent studying instead of earning, plus what amount of student loans, does that have to weigh up for
~40-50k for 4 years, plus Cost of living, expenses, iirc
wait what you guys have just 4 years for medical school? here it's six
EDIT: Oh. You have... college first?
I'm... confused. What do you study there, then?
You study whatever, but it must include the 'pre med' requirements, which I will admit I also took cause I thought maybe I'd do med school.
That means ummmm 2 semesters bio, 4 semesters chemistry including organic, one semester english, 2 semesters physics...ummm maybe you have to have taken calc but could have been in hs? And maybe something about a foreign language?
Completely unclear why. In general in the US we don't track students basically ever--nothing like choosing focus areas in high school and then going to undergrad for really just one subject the way they tend to do more in europe. Everyone here is kinda a generalist...
although I am still at a loss as to Benton's position and his likely pay. may have to look up some show summaries tomorrow, they may explain at least the former
Ah right and he makes somewhere between 50-55K after having made 0 as a med student.
It was completely unreasonable during the first year of his residency (also confusingly called intern year) where he was on call a lot more and just working like 80 hour weeks, which made his salary hourly less than minimum wage
but holy fuck starting attendings make like 200K so uh
worth
how many years spent studying instead of earning, plus what amount of student loans, does that have to weigh up for
i read while googling about resident salaries that the average md has ~150k in student loans. 4 years of undergrad, 4 years of med school, then an avg of 5 years of residency for a specialty beyond general practice? so if you're comparing it to the ocmmon undergrad jerb prospective... that's 9 extra years. say 10 years, if we're gonna dedicate an entire post tax year of salary to paying off that 150.
so avg bachelor's degree holding person enters job market at 21, 22? works for 43 years? avg 5 year residency starts working at like 32? so 33 years?
33 * 200k with no raises = 6.6 million dollars
43 years of work to reach 6.6 million means an average of 153,400 dollars a year over their lifetime
i'm p sure most fields don't even top out at 153,400 per year, let alone average that over a career (and this is assuming 0 raises for the physician)
of course this discards malpractice insurance but i'm p sure that if all you care about is the money, physicians still end up well in front of the vast majority of professions
That income includes malpractice insurance; it's covered by your workplace. Or if you open your own practice, you pay it but your takehome pay is still like 150K or more depending.
although I am still at a loss as to Benton's position and his likely pay. may have to look up some show summaries tomorrow, they may explain at least the former
Ah right and he makes somewhere between 50-55K after having made 0 as a med student.
It was completely unreasonable during the first year of his residency (also confusingly called intern year) where he was on call a lot more and just working like 80 hour weeks, which made his salary hourly less than minimum wage
but holy fuck starting attendings make like 200K so uh
worth
how many years spent studying instead of earning, plus what amount of student loans, does that have to weigh up for
~40-50k for 4 years, plus Cost of living, expenses, iirc
wait what you guys have just 4 years for medical school? here it's six
But do people do medical school instead of undergrad like they do in some countries? And how long is the residency (if there is residency?)
dunno about residency and I don't even know what undergrad really means, to be honest
if you want to study to become a doctor then that is what you study to become, after high school
undergrad is general college. some people will go to a vocational school- learn a very, very specific skill like being a mechanic or a plumber or whatever. but basically everyone who wants a white collar degree- english, creative writing, economics, business, engineering, medicine, law, anything- gets an undergrad degree. they may go straight into the workforce after that or they may pursue a master's degree or pursue medical school or law school or business school
but a bachelor's degree, 'undergrad', is a tick mark for almost any non-physical career in america
although I am still at a loss as to Benton's position and his likely pay. may have to look up some show summaries tomorrow, they may explain at least the former
Ah right and he makes somewhere between 50-55K after having made 0 as a med student.
It was completely unreasonable during the first year of his residency (also confusingly called intern year) where he was on call a lot more and just working like 80 hour weeks, which made his salary hourly less than minimum wage
but holy fuck starting attendings make like 200K so uh
worth
how many years spent studying instead of earning, plus what amount of student loans, does that have to weigh up for
~40-50k for 4 years, plus Cost of living, expenses, iirc
wait what you guys have just 4 years for medical school? here it's six
But do people do medical school instead of undergrad like they do in some countries? And how long is the residency (if there is residency?)
dunno about residency and I don't even know what undergrad really means, to be honest
if you want to study to become a doctor then that is what you study to become, after high school
Undergrad usually means "university", that is, a 4 year institution you go to after high school to get a bachelor's degree. It's also possible to get an associate's degree form a two-year program (this type of program is called 'college' in russian, but in american english, college is essentially synonymous with university most of the time).
So I went to highschool until 18, then went to college/undergrad for 4 years and got a bachelor's in physics, then went to grad school and gor a PhD. Husband similarly went to high school until 18, went to college/undergrad for 4 years and got a bachelor's in biology, then went to medical school for 4 years, and now is a resident ie a low-paid practicing doctor operating under limited supervision, and has 1.5 years left of his 4-year residency.
I say college because my institution was called a college and not a university because it did not have graduate programs. However some places are called college and do have graduate programs :P
although I am still at a loss as to Benton's position and his likely pay. may have to look up some show summaries tomorrow, they may explain at least the former
Ah right and he makes somewhere between 50-55K after having made 0 as a med student.
It was completely unreasonable during the first year of his residency (also confusingly called intern year) where he was on call a lot more and just working like 80 hour weeks, which made his salary hourly less than minimum wage
but holy fuck starting attendings make like 200K so uh
worth
how many years spent studying instead of earning, plus what amount of student loans, does that have to weigh up for
~40-50k for 4 years, plus Cost of living, expenses, iirc
wait what you guys have just 4 years for medical school? here it's six
EDIT: Oh. You have... college first?
I'm... confused. What do you study there, then?
You study whatever, but it must include the 'pre med' requirements, which I will admit I also took cause I thought maybe I'd do med school.
That means ummmm 2 semesters bio, 4 semesters chemistry including organic, one semester english, 2 semesters physics...ummm maybe you have to have taken calc but could have been in hs? And maybe something about a foreign language?
Completely unclear why. In general in the US we don't track students basically ever--nothing like choosing focus areas in high school and then going to undergrad for really just one subject the way they tend to do more in europe. Everyone here is kinda a generalist...
that seems... like a waste of goddamn time and money, to be honest
undergrad is general college. some people will go to a vocational school- learn a very, very specific skill like being a mechanic or a plumber or whatever. but basically everyone who wants a white collar degree- english, creative writing, economics, business, engineering, medicine, law, anything- gets an undergrad degree. they may go straight into the workforce after that or they may pursue a master's degree or pursue medical school or law school or business school
but a bachelor's degree, 'undergrad', is a tick mark for almost any non-physical career in america
the idea of general college is nutso to me
it's bachelors/masters for nearly everything here as well but you like, get a degree in something
although I am still at a loss as to Benton's position and his likely pay. may have to look up some show summaries tomorrow, they may explain at least the former
Ah right and he makes somewhere between 50-55K after having made 0 as a med student.
It was completely unreasonable during the first year of his residency (also confusingly called intern year) where he was on call a lot more and just working like 80 hour weeks, which made his salary hourly less than minimum wage
but holy fuck starting attendings make like 200K so uh
worth
how many years spent studying instead of earning, plus what amount of student loans, does that have to weigh up for
~40-50k for 4 years, plus Cost of living, expenses, iirc
wait what you guys have just 4 years for medical school? here it's six
EDIT: Oh. You have... college first?
I'm... confused. What do you study there, then?
You study whatever, but it must include the 'pre med' requirements, which I will admit I also took cause I thought maybe I'd do med school.
That means ummmm 2 semesters bio, 4 semesters chemistry including organic, one semester english, 2 semesters physics...ummm maybe you have to have taken calc but could have been in hs? And maybe something about a foreign language?
Completely unclear why. In general in the US we don't track students basically ever--nothing like choosing focus areas in high school and then going to undergrad for really just one subject the way they tend to do more in europe. Everyone here is kinda a generalist...
that seems... like a waste of goddamn time and money, to be honest
I believe that a liberal arts education expands the soul and improves critical thinking and is a great experience
I don't know whether it makes someone a better doctor. Quite possibly just going straight to med school would be much better.
In general, as Chu said, the 4-year degree is a necessary piece of paper for many jobs, whether or not the education actually conferred anything of value
Plus it's good for networking and matchmaking
Couldn't have married rich had I not gone to a rich kids school I think
Really haven't met that concentration of rich people elsewhere in life
undergrad is general college. some people will go to a vocational school- learn a very, very specific skill like being a mechanic or a plumber or whatever. but basically everyone who wants a white collar degree- english, creative writing, economics, business, engineering, medicine, law, anything- gets an undergrad degree. they may go straight into the workforce after that or they may pursue a master's degree or pursue medical school or law school or business school
but a bachelor's degree, 'undergrad', is a tick mark for almost any non-physical career in america
the idea of general college is nutso to me
it's bachelors/masters for nearly everything here as well but you like, get a degree in something
You still get a degree in something! It just tends not to occupy as great a percent of your classes as it might elsewhere. Like I majored in physics but it was probably only 30% of my classes (at a different school it would have been a greater percent but Amherst is up its own ass in any number of ways)
undergrad is general college. some people will go to a vocational school- learn a very, very specific skill like being a mechanic or a plumber or whatever. but basically everyone who wants a white collar degree- english, creative writing, economics, business, engineering, medicine, law, anything- gets an undergrad degree. they may go straight into the workforce after that or they may pursue a master's degree or pursue medical school or law school or business school
but a bachelor's degree, 'undergrad', is a tick mark for almost any non-physical career in america
the idea of general college is nutso to me
it's bachelors/masters for nearly everything here as well but you like, get a degree in something
your undergrad degree generally is in 'something'. it might be computer science or biology (a common 'pre-med' track) or political science/english (two common pre-law tracks) or communications or whatever. but all post-graduate education- be that in furtherance of your computer science degree or your creative writing degree, or entrance to a specific, accredited, license awarding professional school (law school, medical school) requires that bachelor's degree first.
so every doctor or lawyer in america has an 'undergrad degree', which is likely in biology, chemistry, english, history, political science, w-e
I have in my head an idea for a rom-com where two small-time con artists pretend to propose at nice restaurants and use the resultant good feelings to get out of paying for the meal, or, failing that, use it as an excuse to dine and dash, but then they really start falling in love
Ok thinking about it that sounds terrible, I need either a twist or a better romantic con
I think there's a whole potential subgenre to mine here: the rom-con
Eddy on
"and the morning stars I have seen
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
undergrad is general college. some people will go to a vocational school- learn a very, very specific skill like being a mechanic or a plumber or whatever. but basically everyone who wants a white collar degree- english, creative writing, economics, business, engineering, medicine, law, anything- gets an undergrad degree. they may go straight into the workforce after that or they may pursue a master's degree or pursue medical school or law school or business school
but a bachelor's degree, 'undergrad', is a tick mark for almost any non-physical career in america
the idea of general college is nutso to me
it's bachelors/masters for nearly everything here as well but you like, get a degree in something
You still get a degree in something! It just tends not to occupy as great a percent of your classes as it might elsewhere. Like I majored in physics but it was probably only 30% of my classes.
that makes me just think that I'd prefer the other 70% to fuck off, then
or, maybe 50%, to allow for a bit of learning for its own sake, and then spend the rest of the time with, say, a job, to have money to live off of that doesn't come with interest
to be clear on vernacular, almost always undergrad degree is synonymous with a bachelor's degree. if you meet someone and they say they graduated college, they probably have a bachelor's degree (in english or history or biology or music or whatever). and then if they pursued further education they might say they have a graduate degree or they've got a phd if they went that far. but in either case, they also have a bachelor's degree (which is the same as an undergrad degree), in some specific topic. and if they say they went to law school or medical school, they too have a bachelor's degree/undergraduate degree.
everything about medicine in america seems monumentally stupid and designed to be as expensive as possible
life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
undergrad is general college. some people will go to a vocational school- learn a very, very specific skill like being a mechanic or a plumber or whatever. but basically everyone who wants a white collar degree- english, creative writing, economics, business, engineering, medicine, law, anything- gets an undergrad degree. they may go straight into the workforce after that or they may pursue a master's degree or pursue medical school or law school or business school
but a bachelor's degree, 'undergrad', is a tick mark for almost any non-physical career in america
the idea of general college is nutso to me
it's bachelors/masters for nearly everything here as well but you like, get a degree in something
You still get a degree in something! It just tends not to occupy as great a percent of your classes as it might elsewhere. Like I majored in physics but it was probably only 30% of my classes.
that makes me just think that I'd prefer the other 70% to fuck off, then
or, maybe 50%, to allow for a bit of learning for its own sake, and then spend the rest of the time with, say, a job, to have money to live off of that doesn't come with interest
Wellll I double-majored in physics and Russian so I also took a lot of Russian classes.
and then the remainder were chemistry and some biochemistry because I wanted to go to a more biology-oriented grad school program. The only useless class I took that wasn't for my majors or my grad school goals was intro japanese my senior year, and I enjoyed the shit out of it.
But yeah it's tough if you're facing economic pressure.
undergrad is general college. some people will go to a vocational school- learn a very, very specific skill like being a mechanic or a plumber or whatever. but basically everyone who wants a white collar degree- english, creative writing, economics, business, engineering, medicine, law, anything- gets an undergrad degree. they may go straight into the workforce after that or they may pursue a master's degree or pursue medical school or law school or business school
but a bachelor's degree, 'undergrad', is a tick mark for almost any non-physical career in america
the idea of general college is nutso to me
it's bachelors/masters for nearly everything here as well but you like, get a degree in something
You still get a degree in something! It just tends not to occupy as great a percent of your classes as it might elsewhere. Like I majored in physics but it was probably only 30% of my classes.
that makes me just think that I'd prefer the other 70% to fuck off, then
or, maybe 50%, to allow for a bit of learning for its own sake, and then spend the rest of the time with, say, a job, to have money to live off of that doesn't come with interest
There are a lot of people in the USA who agree with you about that.
I’m not sure where I come down. I don’t think I would/could have completed my core courses faster, so it was either more classes or more video games. Some of them were dumb, but most were at least somewhat interesting or illuminating
to be clear on vernacular, almost always undergrad degree is synonymous with a bachelor's degree. if you meet someone and they say they graduated college, they probably have a bachelor's degree (in english or history or biology or music or whatever). and then if they pursued further education they might say they have a graduate degree or they've got a phd if they went that far. but in either case, they also have a bachelor's degree (which is the same as an undergrad degree), in some specific topic. and if they say they went to law school or medical school, they too have a bachelor's degree/undergraduate degree.
I would not ask and would not expect to be told
I would expect something like, I am a nurse, I am a teacher, lektor, engineer, sivilingeniør, etc instead of "I graduated" because er, okay?
to be clear on vernacular, almost always undergrad degree is synonymous with a bachelor's degree. if you meet someone and they say they graduated college, they probably have a bachelor's degree (in english or history or biology or music or whatever). and then if they pursued further education they might say they have a graduate degree or they've got a phd if they went that far. but in either case, they also have a bachelor's degree (which is the same as an undergrad degree), in some specific topic. and if they say they went to law school or medical school, they too have a bachelor's degree/undergraduate degree.
I would not ask and would not expect to be told
I would expect something like, I am a nurse, I am a teacher, lektor, engineer, sivilingeniør, etc instead of "I graduated" because er, okay?
No one who’s not an asshole is going to start dropping their degrees on you, unless it comes up in a conversation like this
to be clear on vernacular, almost always undergrad degree is synonymous with a bachelor's degree. if you meet someone and they say they graduated college, they probably have a bachelor's degree (in english or history or biology or music or whatever). and then if they pursued further education they might say they have a graduate degree or they've got a phd if they went that far. but in either case, they also have a bachelor's degree (which is the same as an undergrad degree), in some specific topic. and if they say they went to law school or medical school, they too have a bachelor's degree/undergraduate degree.
I would not ask and would not expect to be told
I would expect something like, I am a nurse, I am a teacher, lektor, engineer, sivilingeniør, etc instead of "I graduated" because er, okay?
i am not saying people introduce themselves as having an engineering degree. people here would identify themselves as engineers before engineer-degree holders. i was just using that device to explain how people achieve schooling- the main point being that lawyers and doctors in america have to attend the same 'type' of university as everyone else who wants to go to college, and then attend med school or law school as well.
to be clear on vernacular, almost always undergrad degree is synonymous with a bachelor's degree. if you meet someone and they say they graduated college, they probably have a bachelor's degree (in english or history or biology or music or whatever). and then if they pursued further education they might say they have a graduate degree or they've got a phd if they went that far. but in either case, they also have a bachelor's degree (which is the same as an undergrad degree), in some specific topic. and if they say they went to law school or medical school, they too have a bachelor's degree/undergraduate degree.
I would not ask and would not expect to be told
I would expect something like, I am a nurse, I am a teacher, lektor, engineer, sivilingeniør, etc instead of "I graduated" because er, okay?
No one who’s not an asshole is going to start dropping their degrees on you, unless it comes up in a conversation like this
I graduated from the school of hard knocks.
Aka dropping out of art school.
life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
i wish i had a college degree but paying for and passing 30-40 classes is really fucking hard
0
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
someone just said Benton was "only a resident" because he's about to perform emergency surgery
funny note, they wrote his name on a board and the name above his was 'Wiley', which is his student's real name. I wonder if the other listed names were the actor's names... went by too fast.
Posts
in the US: 4 years college+4 years med school. Then 4 years of residency (in psych, more if surgery, one less for internal medicine?) at ~50K income.
College prices+debts hugely depend on a person's family situation and choice of college. I knew a lot of low-income folks who got full rides to Amherst. But then I also knew a lot of rich people paying $45K a year for it (their families, though--not them). But other colleges are much cheaper.
My husband's parents paid for his med school tuition, and also it was in-state so a lot cheaper. I think out of state tuition runs to about 50K a year?
Some people are going to become doctors no matter what. A lot of people (like my spouse) are hereditary doctors and come from money.
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
no matter what you compare it to it's going to be worth it after not too long
wait what you guys have just 4 years for medical school? here it's six
EDIT: Oh. You have... college first?
I'm... confused. What do you study there, then?
But do people do medical school instead of undergrad like they do in some countries? And how long is the residency (if there is residency?)
Yeah, that’s after 4-5 years of undergrad, which ranges from free to 40k.
i read while googling about resident salaries that the average md has ~150k in student loans. 4 years of undergrad, 4 years of med school, then an avg of 5 years of residency for a specialty beyond general practice? so if you're comparing it to the ocmmon undergrad jerb prospective... that's 9 extra years. say 10 years, if we're gonna dedicate an entire post tax year of salary to paying off that 150.
so avg bachelor's degree holding person enters job market at 21, 22? works for 43 years? avg 5 year residency starts working at like 32? so 33 years?
33 * 200k with no raises = 6.6 million dollars
43 years of work to reach 6.6 million means an average of 153,400 dollars a year over their lifetime
i'm p sure most fields don't even top out at 153,400 per year, let alone average that over a career (and this is assuming 0 raises for the physician)
of course this discards malpractice insurance but i'm p sure that if all you care about is the money, physicians still end up well in front of the vast majority of professions
You study whatever, but it must include the 'pre med' requirements, which I will admit I also took cause I thought maybe I'd do med school.
That means ummmm 2 semesters bio, 4 semesters chemistry including organic, one semester english, 2 semesters physics...ummm maybe you have to have taken calc but could have been in hs? And maybe something about a foreign language?
Completely unclear why. In general in the US we don't track students basically ever--nothing like choosing focus areas in high school and then going to undergrad for really just one subject the way they tend to do more in europe. Everyone here is kinda a generalist...
I need to someday check up on that whole "Can I smoke weed?" thing
That income includes malpractice insurance; it's covered by your workplace. Or if you open your own practice, you pay it but your takehome pay is still like 150K or more depending.
dunno about residency and I don't even know what undergrad really means, to be honest
if you want to study to become a doctor then that is what you study to become, after high school
but a bachelor's degree, 'undergrad', is a tick mark for almost any non-physical career in america
Undergrad usually means "university", that is, a 4 year institution you go to after high school to get a bachelor's degree. It's also possible to get an associate's degree form a two-year program (this type of program is called 'college' in russian, but in american english, college is essentially synonymous with university most of the time).
So I went to highschool until 18, then went to college/undergrad for 4 years and got a bachelor's in physics, then went to grad school and gor a PhD. Husband similarly went to high school until 18, went to college/undergrad for 4 years and got a bachelor's in biology, then went to medical school for 4 years, and now is a resident ie a low-paid practicing doctor operating under limited supervision, and has 1.5 years left of his 4-year residency.
I say college because my institution was called a college and not a university because it did not have graduate programs. However some places are called college and do have graduate programs :P
that seems... like a waste of goddamn time and money, to be honest
the idea of general college is nutso to me
it's bachelors/masters for nearly everything here as well but you like, get a degree in something
I believe that a liberal arts education expands the soul and improves critical thinking and is a great experience
I don't know whether it makes someone a better doctor. Quite possibly just going straight to med school would be much better.
In general, as Chu said, the 4-year degree is a necessary piece of paper for many jobs, whether or not the education actually conferred anything of value
Plus it's good for networking and matchmaking
Couldn't have married rich had I not gone to a rich kids school I think
Really haven't met that concentration of rich people elsewhere in life
You still get a degree in something! It just tends not to occupy as great a percent of your classes as it might elsewhere. Like I majored in physics but it was probably only 30% of my classes (at a different school it would have been a greater percent but Amherst is up its own ass in any number of ways)
your undergrad degree generally is in 'something'. it might be computer science or biology (a common 'pre-med' track) or political science/english (two common pre-law tracks) or communications or whatever. but all post-graduate education- be that in furtherance of your computer science degree or your creative writing degree, or entrance to a specific, accredited, license awarding professional school (law school, medical school) requires that bachelor's degree first.
so every doctor or lawyer in america has an 'undergrad degree', which is likely in biology, chemistry, english, history, political science, w-e
Ok thinking about it that sounds terrible, I need either a twist or a better romantic con
I think there's a whole potential subgenre to mine here: the rom-con
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
The bs is chemistry for sure.
that makes me just think that I'd prefer the other 70% to fuck off, then
or, maybe 50%, to allow for a bit of learning for its own sake, and then spend the rest of the time with, say, a job, to have money to live off of that doesn't come with interest
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
Wellll I double-majored in physics and Russian so I also took a lot of Russian classes.
and then the remainder were chemistry and some biochemistry because I wanted to go to a more biology-oriented grad school program. The only useless class I took that wasn't for my majors or my grad school goals was intro japanese my senior year, and I enjoyed the shit out of it.
But yeah it's tough if you're facing economic pressure.
There are a lot of people in the USA who agree with you about that.
I’m not sure where I come down. I don’t think I would/could have completed my core courses faster, so it was either more classes or more video games. Some of them were dumb, but most were at least somewhat interesting or illuminating
I would not ask and would not expect to be told
I would expect something like, I am a nurse, I am a teacher, lektor, engineer, sivilingeniør, etc instead of "I graduated" because er, okay?
No one who’s not an asshole is going to start dropping their degrees on you, unless it comes up in a conversation like this
i am not saying people introduce themselves as having an engineering degree. people here would identify themselves as engineers before engineer-degree holders. i was just using that device to explain how people achieve schooling- the main point being that lawyers and doctors in america have to attend the same 'type' of university as everyone else who wants to go to college, and then attend med school or law school as well.
I graduated from the school of hard knocks.
Aka dropping out of art school.
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
funny note, they wrote his name on a board and the name above his was 'Wiley', which is his student's real name. I wonder if the other listed names were the actor's names... went by too fast.
On average, this thread was careening by at warp 1.8
@Organichu will create the new thread
@knitdan is backup