You could probably fall at like 2G if you stuff your jumping buddy into your backpack rather than a parachute.
They'd still be falling at 1G. Although in the dark, so that would be exciting.
With a pro account you can also do fancy lightning and fog of war on your combat maps and at least my group loves this feature. It's also very easy to apply.
You could probably fall at like 2G if you stuff your jumping buddy into your backpack rather than a parachute.
They'd still be falling at 1G. Although in the dark, so that would be exciting.
Gravitation acting alone does not produce a g-force, even though g-forces are expressed in multiples of the acceleration of a standard gravity. Thus, the standard gravitational acceleration at the Earth's surface produces g-force only indirectly, as a result of resistance to it by mechanical forces. These mechanical forces actually produce the g-force acceleration on a mass. For example, the 1 g force on an object sitting on the Earth's surface is caused by mechanical force exerted in the upward direction by the ground, keeping the object from going into free-fall.
If you step out of a plane, you are experiencing 0 G and go into free-fall.
When you hit terminal velocity, you are at 1 G, just as if the ground were preventing you from accelerating.
If you hit terminal velocity in tandem, and the guy on top is not presenting any drag himself, then you are at 2 G because you're carrying someone equal in size.
Perhaps people are confusing G and g, although little g is acceleration due to gravity at sea level, and is not referred to as the G-force as far as I know.
In any case, a Magikarp hitting someone for 400 G is an amusing image, and begs the question precisely who is experiencing 400 G?
Because you know, falling on a Steelix is unlikely to hurt the Steelix...
The thing about Hive Cities, like most of 40k, is they make absolutely no sense if you think about it and try to work out how they work. The population density and stated sizes don't match at all. Hives should have way bigger populations then they do, but then that would mess other things up so if well. The logistics of how all these people eat, how factories get their supplies etc don't make sense. So just roll with it and don't think too hard because the creators didn't.
Has there ever been a good semi crunchy sim style game for playing fighter pilots
Idk, but the FFG Star Wars games has a lot of rules about dogfighting in X-Wings and TIE Fighters. Shouldn't be hard to figure out how to convert it to WWI dogfighting.
With a pro account you can also do fancy lightning and fog of war on your combat maps and at least my group loves this feature. It's also very easy to apply.
From googling around it sounded as though the light comes with free. I'll have to verify. I think that'd be both cool and useful. I need to find the comparison chart I saw on their site earlier.
Has there ever been a good semi crunchy sim style game for playing fighter pilots
Idk, but the FFG Star Wars games has a lot of rules about dogfighting in X-Wings and TIE Fighters. Shouldn't be hard to figure out how to convert it to WWI dogfighting.
I was thinking that but at the same time I'm not a huge fan of the system. On the other hand finding a system that will do that (and yes, maybe Helis too!) is proving a bit tricky.
The thing about Hive Cities, like most of 40k, is they make absolutely no sense if you think about it and try to work out how they work. The population density and stated sizes don't match at all. Hives should have way bigger populations then they do, but then that would mess other things up so if well. The logistics of how all these people eat, how factories get their supplies etc don't make sense. So just roll with it and don't think too hard because the creators didn't.
They already have like billions of people. How much bigger can they go? DH2E explains for Hive Desoleum Primus at least that they receive large shipments of food from agriworlds, worlds almost entirely dedicated to making food; and they supply their own mass ration system and grow the ingredients for it.
I’m not saying that 40k is the most sensical thing. As the GM it’s my responsibility to present a world players can understand so they can act in it. A lot of stuff like Star Wars, DnD, or Lord of the Rings also can make no sense when thought about but they have an internal consistency. 40k is not the most logical thing but there’s usually justifications and an internal framework one can look at like with a lot of sci-fantasy.
I've always had a hard time wrapping my head around daily life in the 40k universe. It's such an over-the-top, war-fueled, grim-dark setting that I struggle to imagine what like, an average family does each day. Do the kids go to school? Does the dad have a job? Is there money? Do they go out to eat sometimes? Are there toys? Do they save up and go on vacation once a year? Where would they go?
Or is everyone just a slave of the empire, everything sucks in gray, army green, or brown, and you struggle to survive until you get to die for the emperor?
Hive cities have the right amount of people but most of those people never leave their hab, work in the local industry, and don't really do anything at all.
But remember, there's no such thing as a generic Hive really. One Hive might be a smog filled Victorian London filled with steamtrain transport and rail gangs. Another uses vacuum tube elevators. Another uses vast interlocking road structures and people drive personal automobiles, which are hugely socially important. Another sees barely any public transportation, vehicles are purely for the hugely wealthy.
The Imperium is vast, and non-conform. Each world is strange and different, linked by the thin web of actual Imperial infrastructure and organisations. Many powerful and important worlds in the Imperium may barely have an actual Imperial presence.
I find it a lot easier to think of if you mentally create a split between Imperial Citizens, that is people living on worlds that the Imperium claims, and Imperials, that is anyone that is actually part of the various Adeptus. There is a cultural break between the two, the former are overwhelmingly from local cultures which differ hugely, the latter are the tiny minority but they keep the structure together and are, if you will, the Imperial culture.
Hive cities have the right amount of people but most of those people never leave their hab, work in the local industry, and don't really do anything at all.
But remember, there's no such thing as a generic Hive really. One Hive might be a smog filled Victorian London filled with steamtrain transport and rail gangs. Another uses vacuum tube elevators. Another uses vast interlocking road structures and people drive personal automobiles, which are hugely socially important. Another sees barely any public transportation, vehicles are purely for the hugely wealthy.
The Imperium is vast, and non-conform. Each world is strange and different, linked by the thin web of actual Imperial infrastructure and organisations. Many powerful and important worlds in the Imperium may barely have an actual Imperial presence.
I find it a lot easier to think of if you mentally create a split between Imperial Citizens, that is people living on worlds that the Imperium claims, and Imperials, that is anyone that is actually part of the various Adeptus. There is a cultural break between the two, the former are overwhelmingly from local cultures which differ hugely, the latter are the tiny minority but they keep the structure together and are, if you will, the Imperial culture.
So it sounds like the Imperium isn't quite the omnipresent, terrifyingly oppressive force that the game makes it out to be? Like maybe it's more akin to the Galactic Empire, where for the most part people on the various planets live their normal lives, but every once in a while a star destroyer shows up and some IG come down and everyone is like "shit what's the Imperium doing here?" and the governor or whatever of the planet is frantically checking to make sure they met their quota of space-rice for the quarter?
Hive cities have the right amount of people but most of those people never leave their hab, work in the local industry, and don't really do anything at all.
But remember, there's no such thing as a generic Hive really. One Hive might be a smog filled Victorian London filled with steamtrain transport and rail gangs. Another uses vacuum tube elevators. Another uses vast interlocking road structures and people drive personal automobiles, which are hugely socially important. Another sees barely any public transportation, vehicles are purely for the hugely wealthy.
The Imperium is vast, and non-conform. Each world is strange and different, linked by the thin web of actual Imperial infrastructure and organisations. Many powerful and important worlds in the Imperium may barely have an actual Imperial presence.
I find it a lot easier to think of if you mentally create a split between Imperial Citizens, that is people living on worlds that the Imperium claims, and Imperials, that is anyone that is actually part of the various Adeptus. There is a cultural break between the two, the former are overwhelmingly from local cultures which differ hugely, the latter are the tiny minority but they keep the structure together and are, if you will, the Imperial culture.
So it sounds like the Imperium isn't quite the omnipresent, terrifyingly oppressive force that the game makes it out to be? Like maybe it's more akin to the Galactic Empire, where for the most part people on the various planets live their normal lives, but every once in a while a star destroyer shows up and some IG come down and everyone is like "shit what's the Imperium doing here?" and the governor or whatever of the planet is frantically checking to make sure they met their quota of space-rice for the quarter?
It really varies a lot planet to planet and system to system on what life would be like. Some areas it is very ominpresent especially when you are near one of their major defense nodes and other areas that are further towards the fringes each local system governor has pretty serious autonomy as long as they are visibly towing the party line.
Most of the focus of what you see in game and lore tends to be the exceptions not the averages. When they talk about hives they talk about the under hives and the gangs and the cultists when the bulk of the billions living in a hive are just people going about their work day going home to their family and watching sportsball and stuff like that.
Has there ever been a good semi crunchy sim style game for playing fighter pilots
Idk, but the FFG Star Wars games has a lot of rules about dogfighting in X-Wings and TIE Fighters. Shouldn't be hard to figure out how to convert it to WWI dogfighting.
I was thinking that but at the same time I'm not a huge fan of the system. On the other hand finding a system that will do that (and yes, maybe Helis too!) is proving a bit tricky.
Mostly just want it for a one shot anyway
Wings of War Glory (the Miniature Game) was/is the precursor to X-Wing/Attack Wing.
Edit: "Glory" is the "new" edition while "War" was the original I believe.
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BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
Hive cities have the right amount of people but most of those people never leave their hab, work in the local industry, and don't really do anything at all.
But remember, there's no such thing as a generic Hive really. One Hive might be a smog filled Victorian London filled with steamtrain transport and rail gangs. Another uses vacuum tube elevators. Another uses vast interlocking road structures and people drive personal automobiles, which are hugely socially important. Another sees barely any public transportation, vehicles are purely for the hugely wealthy.
The Imperium is vast, and non-conform. Each world is strange and different, linked by the thin web of actual Imperial infrastructure and organisations. Many powerful and important worlds in the Imperium may barely have an actual Imperial presence.
I find it a lot easier to think of if you mentally create a split between Imperial Citizens, that is people living on worlds that the Imperium claims, and Imperials, that is anyone that is actually part of the various Adeptus. There is a cultural break between the two, the former are overwhelmingly from local cultures which differ hugely, the latter are the tiny minority but they keep the structure together and are, if you will, the Imperial culture.
So it sounds like the Imperium isn't quite the omnipresent, terrifyingly oppressive force that the game makes it out to be? Like maybe it's more akin to the Galactic Empire, where for the most part people on the various planets live their normal lives, but every once in a while a star destroyer shows up and some IG come down and everyone is like "shit what's the Imperium doing here?" and the governor or whatever of the planet is frantically checking to make sure they met their quota of space-rice for the quarter?
With a solid helping of "No one knows how any of the technology works" and "sometimes your kids a psycher and everyone dies."
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
I sometimes fall down the rabbit hole of the Lexicanum and waste my hours reading about the 40K universe. It seems absolutely awful. But this Abbnett guy is a decent writer and I devour anything he's written. Anyway, to take a tangent from the discussion of hives and everyday life in the Imperium...
How do the Space Marine's justify recruiting horrible examples of humanity ("Necromunda is one of the worlds from which the Imperial Fists Space Marines Chapter recruits new Neophytes, often from the vicious criminal gangs of the planet's hive cities." - and this is not the only time I've seen this recruiting base referenced in 40K fiction) and all of a sudden them coming out the other side as these paragons of virtue and nobility? I call bullshit.
They're literally brainwashed and psycho-indoctrinated from the beginning. Like, brain plugged into a computer levels of reprogramming.
But also they aren't paragons of virtue and nobility. They're paragons of Imperial ideals of these things, but in reality they are brutal fascist thugs, with all the traits of adolescent males (aggression, pride, obsession with honour and standing, hero worship of violent father figures and such) exaggerated to the extreme. A Space Marine is taken as an adolescent and never really grows up, living in a world redolent of juvenile power fantasy. The older, more intelligent ones slowly grow out of it and become more functional, but your average initiate is a late teen boy, hopped up on fascism, narcotics and superhuman combat ability, zealously committing acts of extreme violence in the name of a cause he follows without thinking
Imperial Space Marines are perfect fascist shock infantry, and horrible, horrible people.
I get what you are saying, and I agree... but that goes against every BL book I've read. No space marine, not one with a name anyway, that I've read of (which admittedly is not that much - some Blood Angel stuff about a civil war and Sanguinis' Spear, the Ultramarine series, and all of the early Horus Heresy books, Gaunts Ghosts & Ravenor) has been portrayed a vile, murderous thug. They all have honor, and a sense of responsibility to the Imperium and its people, the bonds of brotherhood, etc. etc... Extremely good killers, sure. Brutal when dealing with the enemy, of course. But not anywhere as bad what I would expect having been raised as a brutal, murderous criminal.
Edit: To draw a parallel to the Gaunt's Ghosts series.... I'd expect a lot more Cuu's and not as many Corbett's, if that makes sense.
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
One of the biggest failings of 40k is that the Imperium as it was originally presented by sarcastic British punk game designers, and the Imperium as it's now presented by marketing guys trying to sell Space Marines to every child in America are very different things. Even as the fundamental nature of the Imperium as a xenophobic fascist theocracy hasn't really changed.
Yeah the space marines aren't paragons of virtue. They are fascists. Heretics must be purged, what defines a heretic is really up to the space marines making the judgement at the time.
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
Basically there are two different ages of the lore of Space Marines: 80s/90s and 00s+, but GW doesn't really do reboots so everything from the first age is still out there and technically still part of the lore, even though it super contradicts the later age.
The big problem is that the Imperium as a whole hasn't changed, so the Space Marines have shifted from being the jack-booted thugs of a fascist regime to being the noble heroes of a fascist regime, which is kind of a bad look these days.
Really I think it's fair to say the stories don't portray Space Marines doing what they often do (murder millions of innocent people, for example) because that sort of thing is not really chunky military sci-fi for teenage boys suitable
But they totally do. There was a great story in the 3rd ed codex where an Inquisitor is writing a report about a world which declared itself free of the Imperium, and some Space Marines turn up to "pacify" it. And the Inquisitor is horrified, because the Marines just destroy the planet's military, infrastructure, armoury of advanced weapons, entire leadership structure etc and then just leaves it like that, basically entirely vulnerable to alien invasion and unable to provide its tithes. The Marines are totally brutal, ruthless bastards and they only care that the rebels are obliterated.
I sometimes fall down the rabbit hole of the Lexicanum and waste my hours reading about the 40K universe. It seems absolutely awful. But this Abbnett guy is a decent writer and I devour anything he's written. Anyway, to take a tangent from the discussion of hives and everyday life in the Imperium...
How do the Space Marine's justify recruiting horrible examples of humanity ("Necromunda is one of the worlds from which the Imperial Fists Space Marines Chapter recruits new Neophytes, often from the vicious criminal gangs of the planet's hive cities." - and this is not the only time I've seen this recruiting base referenced in 40K fiction) and all of a sudden them coming out the other side as these paragons of virtue and nobility? I call bullshit.
One interesting thing in the devestation of baal novel Guilliman flat out says the imperium needs to do better by its people. When forces of chaos come whispering to people what do they have to lose since they already live in hell.
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KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
edited February 2018
They’re living in hell in some codices. The BL books like Eisenhorn state there are shit-ass planets like Thracian Primaris or Sagittarius, but there are places like Gudrun or Tanith which were more like Victorian/Early 20th century Earth (minus the racism and polio. Well maybe a little bit of Nurglite polio). Which, personally early industrialization was ass, but not to the exageratted extent the codices give.
There’s definitely a disconnect between “Everything is hell, blood, slaughter, despair” of the codexes and “That stuff happens but not as often and a lot of people live actual lives without seeing that” of the books.
Most of the areas where the blood angels had founded planets like baal were all really marginal barely habitable worlds to begin with. So on areas like that people living pretty hand to mouth bleak existences is not surprising. But there does seem to overall be a pretty big spread in quality of life from total hellscape like catachan which is literally a death world were basically everything is trying to kill and eat you in some fashion to high tech cities with all the amenities.
See... not being a player of the game I am only coming at from the BL side, and maybe the wiki's. So clearly, I am missing out on a major source of information.
When you play 40k based games you can't just use everything because it's so varied
For RPGs I tend to draw all my inspiration from Abnett's stuff because it's best suited, but I make Marines less heroic and more brutally terrifying, the Guard is more crushing, I feel like the Imperium needs to feel unimaginably harsh an uncompromising. All that stuff from the Inquisitor rulebook, the thoughts for the day, I loved that shit. When I run Dark Heresy, the players are turning up to a planet which is vastly different from the next one along, and basically doing the whole offworlder trying to adapt and complete their mission thing. I play up the big division between being from a planet and not being from there, from being an Imperial Agent and being a random person on an Imperial planet.
Like one place they went to was a lovely peaceful democracy where the Imperial Governor didn't do anything other than sit in his fortress palace somewhere out of the way and watch to make sure they didn't break the terms of their tithe. If they did, he just waded in with Arbites and stuff and made them do it, regardless of what they wanted. This feel that you can do whatever the fuck you want on your planet but the Imperium will take what it wants from you, without mercy or remorse.
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KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
I prefer to have the Imperium as an institution be firm but somewhat fair. Of course according to the Adeptus Arbites, “For justice to be fair it must be cruel”. They take what they want but have a reason for it.
This colors how one of my adventures is playing out. The henchmen group are going to be sieging a hab block filled to the brim with a hivegang that has troubled them for the two years they have been playing. A local noble’s personal enforcers are going to be exploding the place to destroy this gang’s seat of power after my guys extract he crimelord for interrogation.
Problem is this hab-block is similar to the Raid or Dredd’s apartments/megablock. Citizens live here on the lower floors while the higher ones are the headquarters of the gang. Many not complicit but perhaps chained by their oaths or jobs.
People’s homes will be destroyed, but they sent in enforcers to warn them to get out before the assault. The Imperium as an institution doesn’t value life as you or I do, but they also don’t want this to be the focal point of an insurrection so they are at least trying to get people out.
I don’t like cruelty without some justification. The difference between the Imperium and something like 1984 is that they usually have a reason for the things they do.
Aren't they like a super repressive government though? Like if you invent a new tank... that's heretical and you get killed right?
Technically, tanks and all that are under the purview of the Adeptus Mechanicus. Which is really another cult entirely, worshiping the machine god on Mars, which would normally result in the whole group being murdered as heretics. But since they are the only ones who can keep shit operating...
Anyways, yes, technical inventions not overseen by the Adeptus Mechanicus are taboo. So is touching anything behind any surface plates. If the Machine God wanted you to touch it, he would have put it out where it would be easily touched.
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
The Imperium isn't cruel, cruelty suggests they care. They don't care, not about you. You are a resource and you will be spent in the service of the Emperor if it is seen as necessary. Fairness suggests that they don't just take what they want for the job that they need it for, which they totally do.
The Imperium isn't always stupid but it often is crude and blunt. It's a vast, endless bureaucracy with limited tools, so mostly it just uses overwhelming, crushing force to smash any resistance. Sometimes it needs sharper, more precise tools and that's where the agents of the Imperium like Arbites Investigators, Inquisitors and Rogue Traders come in. They are vanishingly rare however, and most of the time drawing the attention of actual Imperial organisations is a baaaad thing. You want to send your tithe of troops and psykers and for them to leave you alone in return, because when they start poking into your business, they will almost certain knock you about while doing so.
If I ran that, I'd say that the way that a hab block siege because of gang activity goes is entirely based on how the local planetary authorities deal with it (which you are too, in the sense that the local Noble's personal guard are the ground troops for this), because proper full on Imperial Adepts aren't really involved with that kind of thing. The local authorities will try and get them out, or not, for whatever reason, but it's up to them. On a reasonably pleasant planet, sure they'll get civilians out. On many planets, they'll just frag the whole fucking block and kill anyone who tries to resist. The Imperium actually doesn't care either way, just don't let it get in the way of providing your tithes.
KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
edited February 2018
The Machine god is an aspect of the Emperor though. (I know about the void dragon but only a tiny fraction of the mechanicus actually worships it)
Also they do that for two reasons. One, terminators happened on a galactic scale in the past because Mankind got too advanced to control itself. Two, change is the purview of Tzeentch who loves that shit and will mess with it.
Edit: also looking back at my post, that’s less the Imperium as an institution I’m referencing and more one of its ruling figures and an inquisitor in that situation.
Still. The insitution and adepts are often separate from the rulers and citizens.
Most planets are given a laissez-faire attitude in their running as long as they pay the tithe.
Like there doesn’t seem to be sexism, racism, or homophobia in general. Like there might be planets like Tallarn which don’t have women soldiers, but Askellon’s capital and second most important planet both have women for rulers and in general, except for the Sororitas and the Astartes, rank and profession is not based on gender. Erotica is a thing. It’s not like 1984 where a whole class’s life is controlled and observed. It’s not sunshine and rainbows but there are worse empires in fiction.
I tend to treat the AdMech just like the rest of the Imperium; most tech stuff is actually not done by an Adept of the cult, but the Cult keeps an eye on all Imperial worlds and if they get a sniff of tech heresy, they fuck you up, so you avoid that as a culturally ingrained thing. Nobody is getting their toaster fixed by an Adept of the Machine God, that's done by a toaster repair guy, but the toaster repair guy knows that there are these people called the Cult Mechanicus and they are crazy and if he messes around with toasters overly so, and they get wind, he will not be happy.
Life on Imperial worlds tends to have one constant when I run 40K, no matter where you're from, you know about the Imperium (which often, apart from really low tech places, means you know about the Cult Mechanicus) and you would prefer to have nothing to do with them if possible. If you're reasonably in the know, then you are aware that you pay tithes and there are certain rules that you never break, no matter what else you do. And you can do other stuff, mostly, they don't really give a shit, but you don't break those rules or they come for you.
And, incidentally, I tend to take the view that tech-heresy and indeed regular good ol' heresy happen alllll the time, pretty much everywhere, and the Imperium either are too far above what is going on to notice, or notice but have more important things to do, or notice and crush you brutally with a regiment of Imperial Guard because your slight doctrinal change made a Cardinal say "no that's not right," and he told the Adeptus Terra, and they put your settlement on a list. Probably it's something that you did decades ago (or an ancestor did, unfortunate for you) because it takes a long time for the Imperium to do most things.
The Imperium is a terrifying, mostly distant and looming presence that barely touches your life but, at the same time, is always potentially watching. No matter if you're a hive worlder or an agri-worlder or a feudal worlder or whatever.
I thought there was no more building tanks though. I thought that was one of the major problems the imperium have is that all they have is a decaying fleet they aren't allowed to properly repair, enhance, or grow.
Like one of the things I've always thought about 40k is that there are no good guys. Each army is evil in their own way, and the imperium is no different.
Like I get the thing being so vast they can't keep an eye on absolutely everything, so minor shit can fly, but it isn't flying because they knowingly allow it to, it's flying because three local rulers don't want their whole planet hit with an exterminatus because a dude invented a toaster.
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Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
Yes. Find me a rule system that I can use for helicopters...
For reasons.
Edit: But I need realistic pHit and pKill stats, damnit! We can make it a d100 system if need be.
If you step out of a plane, you are experiencing 0 G and go into free-fall.
When you hit terminal velocity, you are at 1 G, just as if the ground were preventing you from accelerating.
If you hit terminal velocity in tandem, and the guy on top is not presenting any drag himself, then you are at 2 G because you're carrying someone equal in size.
Perhaps people are confusing G and g, although little g is acceleration due to gravity at sea level, and is not referred to as the G-force as far as I know.
In any case, a Magikarp hitting someone for 400 G is an amusing image, and begs the question precisely who is experiencing 400 G?
Because you know, falling on a Steelix is unlikely to hurt the Steelix...
Idk, but the FFG Star Wars games has a lot of rules about dogfighting in X-Wings and TIE Fighters. Shouldn't be hard to figure out how to convert it to WWI dogfighting.
From googling around it sounded as though the light comes with free. I'll have to verify. I think that'd be both cool and useful. I need to find the comparison chart I saw on their site earlier.
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I was thinking that but at the same time I'm not a huge fan of the system. On the other hand finding a system that will do that (and yes, maybe Helis too!) is proving a bit tricky.
Mostly just want it for a one shot anyway
http://www.warbirdsrpg.com/
I have not tried it yet, but the videos on the website should give you enough to tell if it is what you are looking for.
They already have like billions of people. How much bigger can they go? DH2E explains for Hive Desoleum Primus at least that they receive large shipments of food from agriworlds, worlds almost entirely dedicated to making food; and they supply their own mass ration system and grow the ingredients for it.
I’m not saying that 40k is the most sensical thing. As the GM it’s my responsibility to present a world players can understand so they can act in it. A lot of stuff like Star Wars, DnD, or Lord of the Rings also can make no sense when thought about but they have an internal consistency. 40k is not the most logical thing but there’s usually justifications and an internal framework one can look at like with a lot of sci-fantasy.
Or is everyone just a slave of the empire, everything sucks in gray, army green, or brown, and you struggle to survive until you get to die for the emperor?
But remember, there's no such thing as a generic Hive really. One Hive might be a smog filled Victorian London filled with steamtrain transport and rail gangs. Another uses vacuum tube elevators. Another uses vast interlocking road structures and people drive personal automobiles, which are hugely socially important. Another sees barely any public transportation, vehicles are purely for the hugely wealthy.
The Imperium is vast, and non-conform. Each world is strange and different, linked by the thin web of actual Imperial infrastructure and organisations. Many powerful and important worlds in the Imperium may barely have an actual Imperial presence.
I find it a lot easier to think of if you mentally create a split between Imperial Citizens, that is people living on worlds that the Imperium claims, and Imperials, that is anyone that is actually part of the various Adeptus. There is a cultural break between the two, the former are overwhelmingly from local cultures which differ hugely, the latter are the tiny minority but they keep the structure together and are, if you will, the Imperial culture.
So it sounds like the Imperium isn't quite the omnipresent, terrifyingly oppressive force that the game makes it out to be? Like maybe it's more akin to the Galactic Empire, where for the most part people on the various planets live their normal lives, but every once in a while a star destroyer shows up and some IG come down and everyone is like "shit what's the Imperium doing here?" and the governor or whatever of the planet is frantically checking to make sure they met their quota of space-rice for the quarter?
It really varies a lot planet to planet and system to system on what life would be like. Some areas it is very ominpresent especially when you are near one of their major defense nodes and other areas that are further towards the fringes each local system governor has pretty serious autonomy as long as they are visibly towing the party line.
Most of the focus of what you see in game and lore tends to be the exceptions not the averages. When they talk about hives they talk about the under hives and the gangs and the cultists when the bulk of the billions living in a hive are just people going about their work day going home to their family and watching sportsball and stuff like that.
Wings of War Glory (the Miniature Game) was/is the precursor to X-Wing/Attack Wing.
Edit: "Glory" is the "new" edition while "War" was the original I believe.
With a solid helping of "No one knows how any of the technology works" and "sometimes your kids a psycher and everyone dies."
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Steam: Korvalain
How do the Space Marine's justify recruiting horrible examples of humanity ("Necromunda is one of the worlds from which the Imperial Fists Space Marines Chapter recruits new Neophytes, often from the vicious criminal gangs of the planet's hive cities." - and this is not the only time I've seen this recruiting base referenced in 40K fiction) and all of a sudden them coming out the other side as these paragons of virtue and nobility? I call bullshit.
But also they aren't paragons of virtue and nobility. They're paragons of Imperial ideals of these things, but in reality they are brutal fascist thugs, with all the traits of adolescent males (aggression, pride, obsession with honour and standing, hero worship of violent father figures and such) exaggerated to the extreme. A Space Marine is taken as an adolescent and never really grows up, living in a world redolent of juvenile power fantasy. The older, more intelligent ones slowly grow out of it and become more functional, but your average initiate is a late teen boy, hopped up on fascism, narcotics and superhuman combat ability, zealously committing acts of extreme violence in the name of a cause he follows without thinking
Imperial Space Marines are perfect fascist shock infantry, and horrible, horrible people.
Edit: To draw a parallel to the Gaunt's Ghosts series.... I'd expect a lot more Cuu's and not as many Corbett's, if that makes sense.
The big problem is that the Imperium as a whole hasn't changed, so the Space Marines have shifted from being the jack-booted thugs of a fascist regime to being the noble heroes of a fascist regime, which is kind of a bad look these days.
But they totally do. There was a great story in the 3rd ed codex where an Inquisitor is writing a report about a world which declared itself free of the Imperium, and some Space Marines turn up to "pacify" it. And the Inquisitor is horrified, because the Marines just destroy the planet's military, infrastructure, armoury of advanced weapons, entire leadership structure etc and then just leaves it like that, basically entirely vulnerable to alien invasion and unable to provide its tithes. The Marines are totally brutal, ruthless bastards and they only care that the rebels are obliterated.
One interesting thing in the devestation of baal novel Guilliman flat out says the imperium needs to do better by its people. When forces of chaos come whispering to people what do they have to lose since they already live in hell.
There’s definitely a disconnect between “Everything is hell, blood, slaughter, despair” of the codexes and “That stuff happens but not as often and a lot of people live actual lives without seeing that” of the books.
For RPGs I tend to draw all my inspiration from Abnett's stuff because it's best suited, but I make Marines less heroic and more brutally terrifying, the Guard is more crushing, I feel like the Imperium needs to feel unimaginably harsh an uncompromising. All that stuff from the Inquisitor rulebook, the thoughts for the day, I loved that shit. When I run Dark Heresy, the players are turning up to a planet which is vastly different from the next one along, and basically doing the whole offworlder trying to adapt and complete their mission thing. I play up the big division between being from a planet and not being from there, from being an Imperial Agent and being a random person on an Imperial planet.
Like one place they went to was a lovely peaceful democracy where the Imperial Governor didn't do anything other than sit in his fortress palace somewhere out of the way and watch to make sure they didn't break the terms of their tithe. If they did, he just waded in with Arbites and stuff and made them do it, regardless of what they wanted. This feel that you can do whatever the fuck you want on your planet but the Imperium will take what it wants from you, without mercy or remorse.
This colors how one of my adventures is playing out. The henchmen group are going to be sieging a hab block filled to the brim with a hivegang that has troubled them for the two years they have been playing. A local noble’s personal enforcers are going to be exploding the place to destroy this gang’s seat of power after my guys extract he crimelord for interrogation.
Problem is this hab-block is similar to the Raid or Dredd’s apartments/megablock. Citizens live here on the lower floors while the higher ones are the headquarters of the gang. Many not complicit but perhaps chained by their oaths or jobs.
People’s homes will be destroyed, but they sent in enforcers to warn them to get out before the assault. The Imperium as an institution doesn’t value life as you or I do, but they also don’t want this to be the focal point of an insurrection so they are at least trying to get people out.
I don’t like cruelty without some justification. The difference between the Imperium and something like 1984 is that they usually have a reason for the things they do.
Technically, tanks and all that are under the purview of the Adeptus Mechanicus. Which is really another cult entirely, worshiping the machine god on Mars, which would normally result in the whole group being murdered as heretics. But since they are the only ones who can keep shit operating...
Anyways, yes, technical inventions not overseen by the Adeptus Mechanicus are taboo. So is touching anything behind any surface plates. If the Machine God wanted you to touch it, he would have put it out where it would be easily touched.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
The Imperium isn't always stupid but it often is crude and blunt. It's a vast, endless bureaucracy with limited tools, so mostly it just uses overwhelming, crushing force to smash any resistance. Sometimes it needs sharper, more precise tools and that's where the agents of the Imperium like Arbites Investigators, Inquisitors and Rogue Traders come in. They are vanishingly rare however, and most of the time drawing the attention of actual Imperial organisations is a baaaad thing. You want to send your tithe of troops and psykers and for them to leave you alone in return, because when they start poking into your business, they will almost certain knock you about while doing so.
If I ran that, I'd say that the way that a hab block siege because of gang activity goes is entirely based on how the local planetary authorities deal with it (which you are too, in the sense that the local Noble's personal guard are the ground troops for this), because proper full on Imperial Adepts aren't really involved with that kind of thing. The local authorities will try and get them out, or not, for whatever reason, but it's up to them. On a reasonably pleasant planet, sure they'll get civilians out. On many planets, they'll just frag the whole fucking block and kill anyone who tries to resist. The Imperium actually doesn't care either way, just don't let it get in the way of providing your tithes.
Also they do that for two reasons. One, terminators happened on a galactic scale in the past because Mankind got too advanced to control itself. Two, change is the purview of Tzeentch who loves that shit and will mess with it.
Edit: also looking back at my post, that’s less the Imperium as an institution I’m referencing and more one of its ruling figures and an inquisitor in that situation.
Still. The insitution and adepts are often separate from the rulers and citizens.
Most planets are given a laissez-faire attitude in their running as long as they pay the tithe.
Like there doesn’t seem to be sexism, racism, or homophobia in general. Like there might be planets like Tallarn which don’t have women soldiers, but Askellon’s capital and second most important planet both have women for rulers and in general, except for the Sororitas and the Astartes, rank and profession is not based on gender. Erotica is a thing. It’s not like 1984 where a whole class’s life is controlled and observed. It’s not sunshine and rainbows but there are worse empires in fiction.
Life on Imperial worlds tends to have one constant when I run 40K, no matter where you're from, you know about the Imperium (which often, apart from really low tech places, means you know about the Cult Mechanicus) and you would prefer to have nothing to do with them if possible. If you're reasonably in the know, then you are aware that you pay tithes and there are certain rules that you never break, no matter what else you do. And you can do other stuff, mostly, they don't really give a shit, but you don't break those rules or they come for you.
And, incidentally, I tend to take the view that tech-heresy and indeed regular good ol' heresy happen alllll the time, pretty much everywhere, and the Imperium either are too far above what is going on to notice, or notice but have more important things to do, or notice and crush you brutally with a regiment of Imperial Guard because your slight doctrinal change made a Cardinal say "no that's not right," and he told the Adeptus Terra, and they put your settlement on a list. Probably it's something that you did decades ago (or an ancestor did, unfortunate for you) because it takes a long time for the Imperium to do most things.
The Imperium is a terrifying, mostly distant and looming presence that barely touches your life but, at the same time, is always potentially watching. No matter if you're a hive worlder or an agri-worlder or a feudal worlder or whatever.
But the Imperium generally tends to squash them because a techpriest goes "No! Heretical!"
Designs they accept are pretty good in general and won't result in your getting squashed so people mostly just make them, if they make tanks.