[East Asia] - Year of the Plague

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  • Dongs GaloreDongs Galore Registered User regular
    edited March 2018
    It is important to note that by agreeing to suspend nuclear/ICBM tests until the meeting, then setting the meeting "as soon as possible," the North Koreans successfully minimized the concession they just made.

    Were they even going to conduct any tests in the next 2 months?

    Dongs Galore on
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  • KetBraKetBra Dressed Ridiculously Registered User regular
    I dunno, if I could see a positive outcome from negotiations I would say so.

    I think the most likely outcome is that NK wants official sanction to keep its nuclear program, Trump does not like that and disagrees, and North Korea comes away looking relatively reasonable.

    KGMvDLc.jpg?1
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    I will believe that NK is wiling to give up its nuclear weapons when it happens. It would be good if the USA accepted less than that, but I don't see Trump taking a less hard line position on it.

  • MeeqeMeeqe Lord of the pants most fancy Someplace amazingRegistered User regular
    If Trump manages to get it done, I'll give him credit for it. And then go back to hoping we impeach his ass for all the illegal things he is doing. But North Korea backing down from nuclear brinksmanship is still a good thing on its own. Do I think it's likely right now? Not really. Can I hope for silver linings to the current madness? Sure.

    XaquinAridholRchanenOghulkQuidDonnicton
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    This doesn't have anything to do with Korea giving up weapons. Their propaganda is based entirely around establishing themselves as at least America's peer and nothing will say that more than our president coming to their country and being photographed having serious conversations with him.

    Bonus points for when he invariably calls Kim Jong Un a great guy.

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  • KetBraKetBra Dressed Ridiculously Registered User regular
    Like, big international agreements usually have months or years of lead-up diplomacy, so that when principals meet, the deal already has some sort of form.

    I don't think the Trump admin has done any homework on this.

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  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    Also worth pointing out that South Korea is the 3rd largest exporter of steel to the US and is probably seeking a waiver.

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  • I ZimbraI Zimbra Worst song, played on ugliest guitar Registered User regular
    NK has been trying to have a direct summit with a US president for 20+ years, so this would be a huge propaganda win for them without having to really offer anything.

    I'm guessing they're also champing at the bit to meet with Trump instead of someone who, you know, has at least a basic knowledge of international relations or diplomacy.

    SmrtnikFencingsaxVeagle
  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    Hypothetically this is good!

    He'll probably fuck it up

    MeeqeVeagleLovely
  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    It is important to note that by agreeing to suspend nuclear/ICBM tests until the meeting, then setting the meeting "as soon as possible," the North Koreans successfully minimized the concession they just made.

    Were they even going to conduct any tests in the next 2 months?

    It is quite likely that they would have had difficulty affording many more tests, at least for the short-term.

    So bargaining right now makes sense.

    Doesn't mean they won't just withdraw from any agreement in another year or so, but

    Honestly buying peace with North Korea isn't inherently a bad decision, either. It's a lot cheaper than the alternative.

    The worry, of course, is that this will actually put Trump People at a high stakes negotiating table.

    Or even worse, Trump.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
    XaquinRchanen
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    Its depressing that "Don't nuke Seoul" is treated like the end goal.

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  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    It is important to note that by agreeing to suspend nuclear/ICBM tests until the meeting, then setting the meeting "as soon as possible," the North Koreans successfully minimized the concession they just made.

    Were they even going to conduct any tests in the next 2 months?

    It is quite likely that they would have had difficulty affording many more tests, at least for the short-term.

    So bargaining right now makes sense for them.

    NK has also been seeking a meeting with the US president for a long time. Not really to make nice, but as a sign of the power and respect that his weapons demand. It gives a dictator a huge photo-op and symbol of legitimacy.

    All that being said, it's not necessarily the wrong move, provided they don't fuck it up. Or I guess more importantly, there's much worse possible ways to fuck up.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    Its depressing that "Don't nuke Seoul" is treated like the end goal.

    ??

    You want us to give the North Koreans aid/bribes without disarming them first?

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Its depressing that "Don't nuke Seoul" is treated like the end goal.

    ??

    You want us to give the North Koreans aid/bribes without disarming them first?

    I didn't say that.

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • CantelopeCantelope Registered User regular
    You know, if I was a dictator, I might want some option that involves me riding off into the sunset. Like, if there was a deal you could negotiate where you got to be rich and party around Europe and no one would press charges for crimes against humanity why wouldn't you take it? The crazy people are the ones that want to stay in power forever, and think they can do that somehow. I'm sure that's not the case for Kim, this is probably just some kind of game to him. But man, wouldn't that be something? I really don't understand why we have dictators of countries. If I woke up tomorrow and I was the dictator of any third world country, I would be calling the president of the US and asking how much would he pay for me to officially appoint some stooge as my successor and then step down, of course that deal would have to be negotiated, and would need to include various official guarantees by various governments that they wouldn't try to put me on trial for war crimes or crimes against humanity.

  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    yay dbl posting different versions of posts

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
  • Dongs GaloreDongs Galore Registered User regular
    edited March 2018
    Cantelope wrote: »
    You know, if I was a dictator, I might want some option that involves me riding off into the sunset. Like, if there was a deal you could negotiate where you got to be rich and party around Europe and no one would press charges for crimes against humanity why wouldn't you take it? The crazy people are the ones that want to stay in power forever, and think they can do that somehow. I'm sure that's not the case for Kim, this is probably just some kind of game to him. But man, wouldn't that be something? I really don't understand why we have dictators of countries. If I woke up tomorrow and I was the dictator of any third world country, I would be calling the president of the US and asking how much would he pay for me to officially appoint some stooge as my successor and then step down, of course that deal would have to be negotiated, and would need to include various official guarantees by various governments that they wouldn't try to put me on trial for war crimes or crimes against humanity.

    1. Power is pretty intoxicating
    2. Putting your freedom at the mercy of whichever government you get asylum with is slightly disempowering
    3. If your cabinet finds out that you're planning to literally sell the government to the highest bidder, you will wake up to tanks on the streets of your capital
    4. Some dictators kind of think they're doing the right/necessary thing?
    5. The fuck are you gonna do when the U.S. declines to fork over the cash once you're out?
    6. International law would be somewhat weakened if we set a precedent for granting immunity from prosecution for crimes against humanity and actually rewarding the criminal in question

    Dongs Galore on
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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Kana wrote: »
    It is important to note that by agreeing to suspend nuclear/ICBM tests until the meeting, then setting the meeting "as soon as possible," the North Koreans successfully minimized the concession they just made.

    Were they even going to conduct any tests in the next 2 months?

    It is quite likely that they would have had difficulty affording many more tests, at least for the short-term.

    So bargaining right now makes sense.

    Doesn't mean they won't just withdraw from any agreement in another year or so, but

    Honestly buying peace with North Korea isn't inherently a bad decision, either. It's a lot cheaper than the alternative.

    The worry, of course, is that this will actually put Trump People at a high stakes negotiating table.

    Or even worse, Trump.

    Yeah, I was gonna say that from what I've read they can't really afford more tests anyway, so it's barely a gimme.

  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    So he accepted the invite by May is the timeline.

    Nixon's trip to China was planned for months with quiet diplomacy by actual masters at this behind the scenes on both sides. And even then it was almost scuttled. And that is the closest I can think of for this type of trip. As Trump has the "credentials" as a hard liner to open relations. And it could be a breakthrough.

    My guess the Trump version of that is going to be showing up in Air Force One assuming he is there to accept a surrender or something. Or he will really like the bear on the bicycle and want one in his military parade.

    I believe in the FSOs and the civil servants at the State Department, who are left, I am not having high hopes for our leadership here.

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  • Mr KhanMr Khan Not Everyone WAHHHRegistered User regular
    It's really just a part of the same diplomatic cat-and-mouse game that North Korea's been playing for decades, just more flamboyant because you need to top an ICBM with an equally grand diplomatic overture. This is the part where they prove that they're rational actors who can step back from the brink, but in 1-3 years they'll go back to playing the deranged sociopath of nations anew.

    Kayne Red RobeSmrtnik
  • MuzzmuzzMuzzmuzz Registered User regular
    I know for certain that Trump will take full credit for any peaceful results of this, even if all he does is do awkward handshakes.

    I'm willing to listen to him crowing constantly about how awesome he was, if actual peace were to happen. It's a small price to play when hundreds of millions of lives are at stake.

    But since I'm a cynic, I'm going to hedge my bets and say that Trump will scuttle it by being an idiot, or Kim is just using this to get money.

    Xaquin
  • KetBraKetBra Dressed Ridiculously Registered User regular
    edited March 2018
    Kim is doing this to be seen as America's equal. He won't give up Korea's nuclear weapons, and even if would consider it, an obvious precondition would be for all American troops to leave the peninsula

    KetBra on
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  • VeagleVeagle Registered User regular
    So the State Dept. is crippled, and Trump is going to be personally negotiating with North Korea?

    What could possibly go wrong?

    Best case scenario I can see here, is South Korea does most of the heavy lifting while US interests are completely ignored. Kim Jong Un can just throw a parade and maybe take him on a tour of the Ryugyong Hotel, and Trump will be eating out of his hand. Give Trump something he personally wants, and he'll gladly forget about advancing any US goals.

    NK offers to deescalate their nuclear rhetoric, but wants the US to pull all troops out of SK? Sure, Trump thought they weren't paying enough in the first place, so it's win-win for him. NK wants to start reintegrating with the rest of the world. Less sanctions, more open trade. Oh and they'd be open to the idea of letting some select private corporations develop hotels in Pyongyang. Trump will be all over that. Oh whoops, did he forget to ask them to shut down the prison camps?

    And I don't even want to think about how much the media will be tripping over themselves to magnify any positives that come out of this.

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  • GONG-00GONG-00 Registered User regular
    Its depressing that "Don't nuke Seoul" is treated like the end goal.

    North Korea has no need to nuke Seoul when it already has enough prepositioned conventional artillery units to level the city. Kim can save his limited stockpile for menacing Japan and the US.

    Black lives matter.
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  • kaidkaid Registered User regular
    Given how badly normal diplomacy was working leading up to this maybe it is the time to take a shot at a direct meeting. That being said Trump being trump is likely to blow the meeting badly and make the problem worse and not better and things could get even more dangerous if he is as insulting as he normally is directly in person to kim.

  • MeeqeMeeqe Lord of the pants most fancy Someplace amazingRegistered User regular
    N. Korea getting nukes means they have leverage. They are about to try and use that leverage to get back into the world commmunity, and it doesn't look like that is stoppable without losing Seoul.

    Sometimes dictators win it looks like.

  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Meeqe wrote: »
    N. Korea getting nukes means they have leverage. They are about to try and use that leverage to get back into the world commmunity, and it doesn't look like that is stoppable without losing Seoul.

    Sometimes dictators win it looks like.

    Ehh, a little over simplification.

    NK is a hyper rational actor with a specific goal, "Keep the Kims and their allies in power at all cost." Nuking Seoul would do the opposite of this. In fact a lot of US politicians and the public tend to under appreciate how rational NK is in negotiations. They may have antics but they go in with goals and they stick to them.

    In other stories being missed due to this uhh special moment is the fact that 11 countries, including Japan, signed the TPP yesterday without the US. That South Korea is the third largest exporter of steel to the US is not exempt from the tariffs. And that Japan and SK are both reeling from the tarrif news along with other major allies which actually leaves the US in a much harder position to negotiate as we currently don't have a truly unified set of allies behind us.

    I mean also beyond the fact the negotiator in chief has no plan or true goal or idea of how to pull together folks to build an international consensus and help reduce with the eventual goal of disarmament along with possible reintegration of someone like NK into the world stage.

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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    I don't see how it makes any sense for Kim Jong Un to give up nukes.

  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    edited March 2018
    Couscous wrote: »
    I don't see how it makes any sense for Kim Jong Un to give up nukes.

    Long term integration and economic development with the eventual end goal of him joining the rest of the dictator club with a house on the French Rivera.

    Also the whole fact long term stability is not in the cards with the current system, which means long term comfort/power for him and his is more precarious.

    Edit:
    From analysis prospective I would NK is best analyzed through two lenses.

    A Realist lens with a heavy focus on rational actor and state survival. And an elite theory/elite analysis lens focused on the Kim family and their needs to maintain power.

    Mazzyx on
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    hippofantKana
  • nowwhatnowwhat Registered User regular
    kaid wrote: »
    Given how badly normal diplomacy was working leading up to this maybe it is the time to take a shot at a direct meeting. That being said Trump being trump is likely to blow the meeting badly and make the problem worse and not better and things could get even more dangerous if he is as insulting as he normally is directly in person to kim.

    I've got to agree - I mean broken clock / blind squirrel, and if Trump somehow manages to back his way into some sort of decent deal than good for him. Worst case, he's probably not going to do more harm than he's already done.

    I also wouldn't worry too much about him materially worsening things by insulting someone in person. One thing about Trump is that - for all his shitposting, he's really a big coward. He's a bully when he has a huge and unquestionable power advantage over someone, but in that meeting he's going to be treated as an equal and - for all the waving around (and massive military might advantage we have) he'll act that way.

    You'll get some 'great guy, great guy' platitudes, and he's far more likely to inadvertently cause a long term issue / propoganda will by legitimizing NK. We'll probably get some sort of faux pas because he's a buffoon, who - even if he wasn't too lazy to prepare for anything - has a State Department that's too gutted to prepare him in the first place.

    So this will be a whole bunch of nothing, Trump will declare he won everything for all time, Un will get a true boost, and everyone else will roll their eyes.

  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    edited March 2018
    Couscous wrote: »
    I don't see how it makes any sense for Kim Jong Un to give up nukes.

    I read an op-ed awhile back (can't remember where) that detailed how Gaddafi gave up his weapons and still ended up dead in a ditch and how Gaddafi's misplaced trust in the international community will deter the Kims from ever disarming.

    emnmnme on
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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/08/us/politics/north-korea-kim-jong-un-trump.html
    Behind the scenes, events unfolded even more haphazardly. Mr. Trump was not scheduled to meet Mr. Chung until Friday, but when he heard that the envoy was in the West Wing seeing other officials, the president summoned him to the Oval Office, according to a senior administration official.

    Mr. Trump, the official said, then asked Mr. Chung to tell him about his meeting with Mr. Kim. When Mr. Chung said that the North Korean leader had expressed a desire to meet Mr. Trump, the president immediately said he would do it, and directed Mr. Chung to announce it to the White House press corps.

    Mr. Chung, nonplused, said he first needed approval from Mr. Moon, who quickly granted it in a phone call. Mr. Trump later called Prime Minister Shinzo Abe of Japan, and the two discussed coordinating diplomatic efforts. Mr. Trump also plans to call President Xi Jinping of China.

    By day’s end, dazed White House officials were discussing whether Mr. Trump would invite Mr. Kim to come to the United States. That seemed entirely likely, the senior administration official said, though American officials doubt the North Korean leader would accept.
    This is not remotely a good start that should leave people optimistic.

    QanamilFencingsaxshrykeHeraldS
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/08/us/politics/north-korea-kim-jong-un-trump.html
    Behind the scenes, events unfolded even more haphazardly. Mr. Trump was not scheduled to meet Mr. Chung until Friday, but when he heard that the envoy was in the West Wing seeing other officials, the president summoned him to the Oval Office, according to a senior administration official.

    Mr. Trump, the official said, then asked Mr. Chung to tell him about his meeting with Mr. Kim. When Mr. Chung said that the North Korean leader had expressed a desire to meet Mr. Trump, the president immediately said he would do it, and directed Mr. Chung to announce it to the White House press corps.

    Mr. Chung, nonplused, said he first needed approval from Mr. Moon, who quickly granted it in a phone call. Mr. Trump later called Prime Minister Shinzo Abe of Japan, and the two discussed coordinating diplomatic efforts. Mr. Trump also plans to call President Xi Jinping of China.

    By day’s end, dazed White House officials were discussing whether Mr. Trump would invite Mr. Kim to come to the United States. That seemed entirely likely, the senior administration official said, though American officials doubt the North Korean leader would accept.
    This is not remotely a good start that should leave people optimistic.

    We are getting the case study in how not to open official relations with a difficult country which you have had no official communications with for decades.

    I feel like we should sit Trump and his White House down to watch a documentary on Nixon and China and how that is the case study on how you open relations with this type of country.

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    hippofant
  • hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/08/us/politics/north-korea-kim-jong-un-trump.html
    Behind the scenes, events unfolded even more haphazardly. Mr. Trump was not scheduled to meet Mr. Chung until Friday, but when he heard that the envoy was in the West Wing seeing other officials, the president summoned him to the Oval Office, according to a senior administration official.

    Mr. Trump, the official said, then asked Mr. Chung to tell him about his meeting with Mr. Kim. When Mr. Chung said that the North Korean leader had expressed a desire to meet Mr. Trump, the president immediately said he would do it, and directed Mr. Chung to announce it to the White House press corps.

    Mr. Chung, nonplused, said he first needed approval from Mr. Moon, who quickly granted it in a phone call. Mr. Trump later called Prime Minister Shinzo Abe of Japan, and the two discussed coordinating diplomatic efforts. Mr. Trump also plans to call President Xi Jinping of China.

    By day’s end, dazed White House officials were discussing whether Mr. Trump would invite Mr. Kim to come to the United States. That seemed entirely likely, the senior administration official said, though American officials doubt the North Korean leader would accept.
    This is not remotely a good start that should leave people optimistic.

    We are getting the case study in how not to open official relations with a difficult country which you have had no official communications with for decades.

    I feel like we should sit Trump and his White House down to watch a documentary on Nixon and China and how that is the case study on how you open relations with this type of country.

    Wait, so... um... where are they actually going to do this? Cuz that seems like it'll be a pretty significant problem.


    I do kinda admire the chutzpah of just cutting through all the nonsense and just saying, "Let's do it," Admiral Adama style, but that's incumbent on it being doable.

  • Psychotic OnePsychotic One The Lord of No Pants Parts UnknownRegistered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/08/us/politics/north-korea-kim-jong-un-trump.html
    Behind the scenes, events unfolded even more haphazardly. Mr. Trump was not scheduled to meet Mr. Chung until Friday, but when he heard that the envoy was in the West Wing seeing other officials, the president summoned him to the Oval Office, according to a senior administration official.

    Mr. Trump, the official said, then asked Mr. Chung to tell him about his meeting with Mr. Kim. When Mr. Chung said that the North Korean leader had expressed a desire to meet Mr. Trump, the president immediately said he would do it, and directed Mr. Chung to announce it to the White House press corps.

    Mr. Chung, nonplused, said he first needed approval from Mr. Moon, who quickly granted it in a phone call. Mr. Trump later called Prime Minister Shinzo Abe of Japan, and the two discussed coordinating diplomatic efforts. Mr. Trump also plans to call President Xi Jinping of China.

    By day’s end, dazed White House officials were discussing whether Mr. Trump would invite Mr. Kim to come to the United States. That seemed entirely likely, the senior administration official said, though American officials doubt the North Korean leader would accept.
    This is not remotely a good start that should leave people optimistic.

    We are getting the case study in how not to open official relations with a difficult country which you have had no official communications with for decades.

    I feel like we should sit Trump and his White House down to watch a documentary on Nixon and China and how that is the case study on how you open relations with this type of country.

    Wait, so... um... where are they actually going to do this? Cuz that seems like it'll be a pretty significant problem.


    I do kinda admire the chutzpah of just cutting through all the nonsense and just saying, "Let's do it," Admiral Adama style, but that's incumbent on it being doable.

    The UN Building would probably be the closest thing to neutral ground for such a meeting.

    Kayne Red Robe
  • hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/08/us/politics/north-korea-kim-jong-un-trump.html
    Behind the scenes, events unfolded even more haphazardly. Mr. Trump was not scheduled to meet Mr. Chung until Friday, but when he heard that the envoy was in the West Wing seeing other officials, the president summoned him to the Oval Office, according to a senior administration official.

    Mr. Trump, the official said, then asked Mr. Chung to tell him about his meeting with Mr. Kim. When Mr. Chung said that the North Korean leader had expressed a desire to meet Mr. Trump, the president immediately said he would do it, and directed Mr. Chung to announce it to the White House press corps.

    Mr. Chung, nonplused, said he first needed approval from Mr. Moon, who quickly granted it in a phone call. Mr. Trump later called Prime Minister Shinzo Abe of Japan, and the two discussed coordinating diplomatic efforts. Mr. Trump also plans to call President Xi Jinping of China.

    By day’s end, dazed White House officials were discussing whether Mr. Trump would invite Mr. Kim to come to the United States. That seemed entirely likely, the senior administration official said, though American officials doubt the North Korean leader would accept.
    This is not remotely a good start that should leave people optimistic.

    We are getting the case study in how not to open official relations with a difficult country which you have had no official communications with for decades.

    I feel like we should sit Trump and his White House down to watch a documentary on Nixon and China and how that is the case study on how you open relations with this type of country.

    Wait, so... um... where are they actually going to do this? Cuz that seems like it'll be a pretty significant problem.


    I do kinda admire the chutzpah of just cutting through all the nonsense and just saying, "Let's do it," Admiral Adama style, but that's incumbent on it being doable.

    The UN Building would probably be the closest thing to neutral ground for such a meeting.

    It's in the US, though. On the wrong side of it, too.

    The best option I can think of is that China hosts it. But that might add additional diplomatic wrinkles into the actual talks.

  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/08/us/politics/north-korea-kim-jong-un-trump.html
    Behind the scenes, events unfolded even more haphazardly. Mr. Trump was not scheduled to meet Mr. Chung until Friday, but when he heard that the envoy was in the West Wing seeing other officials, the president summoned him to the Oval Office, according to a senior administration official.

    Mr. Trump, the official said, then asked Mr. Chung to tell him about his meeting with Mr. Kim. When Mr. Chung said that the North Korean leader had expressed a desire to meet Mr. Trump, the president immediately said he would do it, and directed Mr. Chung to announce it to the White House press corps.

    Mr. Chung, nonplused, said he first needed approval from Mr. Moon, who quickly granted it in a phone call. Mr. Trump later called Prime Minister Shinzo Abe of Japan, and the two discussed coordinating diplomatic efforts. Mr. Trump also plans to call President Xi Jinping of China.

    By day’s end, dazed White House officials were discussing whether Mr. Trump would invite Mr. Kim to come to the United States. That seemed entirely likely, the senior administration official said, though American officials doubt the North Korean leader would accept.
    This is not remotely a good start that should leave people optimistic.

    We are getting the case study in how not to open official relations with a difficult country which you have had no official communications with for decades.

    I feel like we should sit Trump and his White House down to watch a documentary on Nixon and China and how that is the case study on how you open relations with this type of country.

    Wait, so... um... where are they actually going to do this? Cuz that seems like it'll be a pretty significant problem.


    I do kinda admire the chutzpah of just cutting through all the nonsense and just saying, "Let's do it," Admiral Adama style, but that's incumbent on it being doable.

    The UN Building would probably be the closest thing to neutral ground for such a meeting.

    It's in the US, though. On the wrong side of it, too.

    The best option I can think of is that China hosts it. But that might add additional diplomatic wrinkles into the actual talks.

    For a third party host China or Russia would be the best bets. Though a "neutral" country such as India wouldn't be a terrible location either.

    03x29di.png
  • GONG-00GONG-00 Registered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/08/us/politics/north-korea-kim-jong-un-trump.html
    Behind the scenes, events unfolded even more haphazardly. Mr. Trump was not scheduled to meet Mr. Chung until Friday, but when he heard that the envoy was in the West Wing seeing other officials, the president summoned him to the Oval Office, according to a senior administration official.

    Mr. Trump, the official said, then asked Mr. Chung to tell him about his meeting with Mr. Kim. When Mr. Chung said that the North Korean leader had expressed a desire to meet Mr. Trump, the president immediately said he would do it, and directed Mr. Chung to announce it to the White House press corps.

    Mr. Chung, nonplused, said he first needed approval from Mr. Moon, who quickly granted it in a phone call. Mr. Trump later called Prime Minister Shinzo Abe of Japan, and the two discussed coordinating diplomatic efforts. Mr. Trump also plans to call President Xi Jinping of China.

    By day’s end, dazed White House officials were discussing whether Mr. Trump would invite Mr. Kim to come to the United States. That seemed entirely likely, the senior administration official said, though American officials doubt the North Korean leader would accept.
    This is not remotely a good start that should leave people optimistic.

    We are getting the case study in how not to open official relations with a difficult country which you have had no official communications with for decades.

    I feel like we should sit Trump and his White House down to watch a documentary on Nixon and China and how that is the case study on how you open relations with this type of country.

    Wait, so... um... where are they actually going to do this? Cuz that seems like it'll be a pretty significant problem.


    I do kinda admire the chutzpah of just cutting through all the nonsense and just saying, "Let's do it," Admiral Adama style, but that's incumbent on it being doable.

    The UN Building would probably be the closest thing to neutral ground for such a meeting.

    It's in the US, though. On the wrong side of it, too.

    The best option I can think of is that China hosts it. But that might add additional diplomatic wrinkles into the actual talks.

    For a third party host China or Russia would be the best bets. Though a "neutral" country such as India wouldn't be a terrible location either.

    Trump is not dumb enough to...oh wait, he is.

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  • IlpalaIlpala Just this guy, y'know Texas booniesRegistered User regular
    Sarah Huckabee seemed to imply during the press briefing today that there would be preconditions after all, as has been the US's position for some time.

    Someone should have told the White House that.



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  • KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/08/us/politics/north-korea-kim-jong-un-trump.html
    Behind the scenes, events unfolded even more haphazardly. Mr. Trump was not scheduled to meet Mr. Chung until Friday, but when he heard that the envoy was in the West Wing seeing other officials, the president summoned him to the Oval Office, according to a senior administration official.

    Mr. Trump, the official said, then asked Mr. Chung to tell him about his meeting with Mr. Kim. When Mr. Chung said that the North Korean leader had expressed a desire to meet Mr. Trump, the president immediately said he would do it, and directed Mr. Chung to announce it to the White House press corps.

    Mr. Chung, nonplused, said he first needed approval from Mr. Moon, who quickly granted it in a phone call. Mr. Trump later called Prime Minister Shinzo Abe of Japan, and the two discussed coordinating diplomatic efforts. Mr. Trump also plans to call President Xi Jinping of China.

    By day’s end, dazed White House officials were discussing whether Mr. Trump would invite Mr. Kim to come to the United States. That seemed entirely likely, the senior administration official said, though American officials doubt the North Korean leader would accept.
    This is not remotely a good start that should leave people optimistic.

    We are getting the case study in how not to open official relations with a difficult country which you have had no official communications with for decades.

    I feel like we should sit Trump and his White House down to watch a documentary on Nixon and China and how that is the case study on how you open relations with this type of country.
    I really don't see the problem. Like a little haphazard but so what? All I'm seeing in those paragraphs is good news.

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