As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/

Pre-Fight Debate: Bracket 1

123457

Posts

  • robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Joker's also insane and also likes toying with people.

    robosagogo on
  • Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited November 2006
    robosagogo wrote:
    Joker's also insane and also likes toying with people.

    Nothing I have said here contradicts this.

    Spectre-x on
  • GuekGuek Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    spectre's right. *shrugs*

    Guek on
  • FierceDeity666FierceDeity666 Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    some mod lock Spex's title to "Knows more about comics than you"

    FierceDeity666 on
  • deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Every time one of you votes for Joker I lose a little faith in you.

    deadonthestreet on
  • FuruFuru Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Man you didn't have any respect for me to begin with.

    Furu on
  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    some mod lock Spex's title to "Knows more about comics than you"

    Except that he doesn't. He knows quite a bit, but in these tournaments each fight is a matter of opinion.

    Either way, Mary vs. Joker is gonna be really close.

    Marathon on
  • GoodCitizenGoodCitizen Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Marathon wrote:
    some mod lock Spex's title to "Knows more about comics than you"

    Except that he doesn't. He knows quite a bit, but in these tournaments each fight is a matter of opinion.

    Either way, Mary vs. Joker is gonna be really close.

    I'd say that it really depends on Mary's mental state as she came into this battle. Joker's insanity is atleast somewhat consistent. Mary's is totally unpredictable. If she came in with the right mindset and the intent to kill the Joker, she'd win, if not, she'd lose. I'd say that Joker would probably win, though. His insanity works for him while Mary's works againt her. Still, it would be a good fight either way.


    Also, not related to what posted, but I think Venom(Mac Gargan) isn't getting the credit he deserves. YES, he would lose against the silver samurai in a volcanoe. I'm not doubting that in the slightest. I think the Gargan Venom is a bigger threat than brock as Venom was, though. Gargan's head is alot clearer which allows him to be more strategic, and he has been known to use the suit somewhat unconventionally, to great effect. Read "civil war: choosing sides" for a good example of this. Ya, he still gets owned in this battle, but he's not the chump some people are making him out to be in my opinion...

    GoodCitizen on
    Benjamin Franklin used foil covered window glass to create a capacitor. He then attempted to kill a turkey with the stored charge. Instead, he knocked himself out. Franklin later wrote, "I tried to kill a turkey but nearly succeeded in killing a goose."
  • Sars_BoySars_Boy Rest, You Are The Lightning. Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Furu wrote:
    Man you didn't have any respect for me to begin with.
    Who are you again?

    Sars_Boy on
  • deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Seriously all this "he'd find a way" is silly.

    Joker sucks in a fight. I hate how he is getting votes just because he fights Batman, and is in cartoons.

    deadonthestreet on
  • NinjaSquirrelNinjaSquirrel Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    I just don't see how Doomsday is losing...

    Mandarin cannot beat Iron Man, Doomsday would peel that tin suit right off Iron Man and then eat the chewy center. Doomsday killed Superman, Mandarin would die before he could even think to use one of his rings. Something is real wrong there.

    NinjaSquirrel on
  • deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    I think Doomsday is losing mostly because he is a bad character.

    Also, mind control.

    deadonthestreet on
  • FuruFuru Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    I think Doomsday is losing mostly because he is a bad character.

    Then why the hell are Typhoid Mary and Silver Samurai winning?

    Furu on
  • deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    If you think Typhoid Mary is a bad character you've never read a Typhoid Mary story.

    deadonthestreet on
  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Seriously all this "he'd find a way" is silly.

    Joker sucks in a fight. I hate how he is getting votes just because he fights Batman, and is in cartoons.

    I agree, half the votes for Joker are "he's crazy in a good way" or "dude it's the Joker."

    I don't care if people vote for him, opinions will differ in this tourney. But at least back it up with something.

    Marathon on
  • GoodCitizenGoodCitizen Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    If you think Typhoid Mary is a bad character you've never read a Typhoid Mary story.
    Quoted for emphasis

    Mary is a VERY deep character. She may not be the most liked character but there is alot of depth to her.

    GoodCitizen on
    Benjamin Franklin used foil covered window glass to create a capacitor. He then attempted to kill a turkey with the stored charge. Instead, he knocked himself out. Franklin later wrote, "I tried to kill a turkey but nearly succeeded in killing a goose."
  • GoodCitizenGoodCitizen Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Marathon wrote:
    Seriously all this "he'd find a way" is silly.

    Joker sucks in a fight. I hate how he is getting votes just because he fights Batman, and is in cartoons.

    I agree, half the votes for Joker are "he's crazy in a good way" or "dude it's the Joker."

    I don't care if people vote for him, opinions will differ in this tourney. But at least back it up with something.

    Check out my reasoning on the bottom of the last page. I picked joker mostly because Mary's insanity is VERY unpredictable. She could easily just snap into another personality that doesn't have a chance of winning. Joker on the other hand, would be (relatively) focused on killing Mary. Joker's insanity works for him while Mary's works against her...

    GoodCitizen on
    Benjamin Franklin used foil covered window glass to create a capacitor. He then attempted to kill a turkey with the stored charge. Instead, he knocked himself out. Franklin later wrote, "I tried to kill a turkey but nearly succeeded in killing a goose."
  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Marathon wrote:
    Seriously all this "he'd find a way" is silly.

    Joker sucks in a fight. I hate how he is getting votes just because he fights Batman, and is in cartoons.

    I agree, half the votes for Joker are "he's crazy in a good way" or "dude it's the Joker."

    I don't care if people vote for him, opinions will differ in this tourney. But at least back it up with something.

    Check out my reasoning on the bottom of the last page. I picked joker mostly because Mary's insanity is VERY unpredictable. She could easily just snap into another personality that doesn't have a chance of winning. Joker on the other hand, would be (relatively) focused on killing Mary. Joker's insanity works for him while Mary's works against her...

    See thats a reason, I may disagree with it but that means nothing in the grand scheme. I wasn't picking on anyone in particular and im sorry if you felt singled out.

    You actually give some reason with some backing to it. That im ok with, but some reasons people give seem kinda "meh." But then again im biased becasue I think Mary would win. Feel free to tell me to bugger off.

    Marathon on
  • GoodCitizenGoodCitizen Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Marathon wrote:
    Marathon wrote:
    Seriously all this "he'd find a way" is silly.

    Joker sucks in a fight. I hate how he is getting votes just because he fights Batman, and is in cartoons.

    I agree, half the votes for Joker are "he's crazy in a good way" or "dude it's the Joker."

    I don't care if people vote for him, opinions will differ in this tourney. But at least back it up with something.

    Check out my reasoning on the bottom of the last page. I picked joker mostly because Mary's insanity is VERY unpredictable. She could easily just snap into another personality that doesn't have a chance of winning. Joker on the other hand, would be (relatively) focused on killing Mary. Joker's insanity works for him while Mary's works against her...

    See thats a reason, I may disagree with it but that means nothing in the grand scheme. I wasn't picking on anyone in particular and im sorry if you felt singled out.

    You actually give some reason with some backing to it. That im ok with, but some reasons people give seem kinda "meh." But then again im biased becasue I think Mary would win. Feel free to tell me to bugger off.

    I DO think that Mary would win if she could stay stay focused on the fact that she's trying to kill the Joker. Honestly, I think it's almost down to a coin toss in that regard. Power/skill-wise, Mary has him trumped a few times over. My first instinct was that Mary would own him. Then, I started thinking about how her insanity almost always gets in the way.

    Want to hear what actually flipped me, since it was so damn close? The way Joker looks. All that face paint is right up Mary's alley. She'd probably do her "Flirt and rub herself all over her enemy before trying to kill him" thing.

    Oh, and don't worry about my feelings, I don't have any :wink: . Heh, actually, the thought that you might be singling me out never crossed my mind.

    GoodCitizen on
    Benjamin Franklin used foil covered window glass to create a capacitor. He then attempted to kill a turkey with the stored charge. Instead, he knocked himself out. Franklin later wrote, "I tried to kill a turkey but nearly succeeded in killing a goose."
  • ExcessiveKnifeExcessiveKnife Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Marathon wrote:
    I don't care if people vote for him, opinions will differ in this tourney. But at least back it up with something.

    Ok, how about this for a scenario, using only what is on Joker's person, and what can logically be found in an "abandoned" city (assuming anything obviously dangerous or valuable was retained/ looted by those abandoning the area, and that Joker and Mary start far enough away to give some working time/ "stalking room")

    Joker, firmly seated in the "crazy, but not stupid" category, is aware that stand-up fights end badly for him, and if a villain catches him on the wrong side of the deathtrap, a trip to Arkham isn't in the cards.

    So, first thing, he makes a break for a nearby apartment complex, going up a few floors, and kicking in the door of an abandoned apartment (NOTE: not one with a fire escape, and only one entry door. This will be important later). A quick search though a modern apartment will (9 times out of ten) turn up a hardback book and three glasses. The entry door is then closed, the book placed on the floor inside the door's path, and the glasses stacked into a pyramid. One of Joker's gas grenades is then placed inside the top glass, and the pin pulled, with the glass holding the "spoon" in place, preventing immediate detonation.

    We have now created a simple proximity mine.

    Next is the bait; we need Mary to -want- to enter the apartment. Simply turning on the light would be effective enough (the only lit apartment in a city block is quite a beacon), but Joker is a showoff at heart, so lets assume he does something odd like turn on any derelict electronics, write lewd messages on the windows with abandoned lipstick, whatever floats his boat and can be done quickly. He then moves to the bathroom, and uses the acid flower to melt the floor, opening a passage to the apartment below (if the flower is not powerful enough to do the job, he grabs a kitchen knife and goes to work).

    Now in the lower apartment, Joker unlocks the door and walks out. At this point he can either...

    A) Do more mean things to the apartment complex
    B) Make a run for it, to either hope for the best or rig more buildings/ cars/ whatever
    C) Head over to the building across the way and break into another apartment to watch the show from.

    Mary is no fool, but from the descriptions given in this fight, she is not one to shy away from conflict (if I could set s**t on fire with my mind, I wouldn't either), so she will investigate. Her strategic knowledge would tell her that flying around willy-nilly is a bad idea in an urban enviroment (what with modern rocket launchers and all), so foot travel is the way to go, and as there is no fire escape for the apartment (see what I mean?), the inside stairs is the way to go.

    Now when she reaches the apartment, there is no knowing what personality will be in charge. So, commence speculation...

    1) Personality that has no clue what it is doing: Will timidly open the door, or just run the other direction (no Pro-Mary scenario assumes this personality will be in force, so neither will we. It is mentioned for completeness).
    2) "Skilled but not psychotic" personality: Aware of the possibility of a trap, she will slowly open the door, checking for tripwires and sensors (the two most logical vectors for a door-based trap) before making entry. It is at this point that the door hits the book, causing the pyramid to fall, setting off the grenade. Pamf HaHaHa Thud.
    3) Bloody Mary: Kicks the door flat off it's hinges in a fit of man-hating homicidal rage triggering the grenade, or flies up to the window and blasts the s**t out of the apartment with no regard for personal safety or tactics, cooking off the grenade in the process. See 2 for final results.

    And if the gambit fails, what is the end result for the Joker? He is down one gas grenade and a shot of the acid flower, and is up by whatever else he snagged in the apartments on his way through, as well as valuable knowledge as to the capabilities of his enemy.

    ExcessiveKnife on
    The mad beeper is on the loose!
  • BlankspaceBlankspace __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2006
    Marathon wrote:
    I don't care if people vote for him, opinions will differ in this tourney. But at least back it up with something.

    Ok, how about this for a scenario, using only what is on Joker's person, and what can logically be found in an "abandoned" city (assuming anything obviously dangerous or valuable was retained/ looted by those abandoning the area, and that Joker and Mary start far enough away to give some working time/ "stalking room")

    Joker, firmly seated in the "crazy, but not stupid" category, is aware that stand-up fights end badly for him, and if a villain catches him on the wrong side of the deathtrap, a trip to Arkham isn't in the cards.

    So, first thing, he makes a break for a nearby apartment complex, going up a few floors, and kicking in the door of an abandoned apartment (NOTE: not one with a fire escape, and only one entry door. This will be important later). A quick search though a modern apartment will (9 times out of ten) turn up a hardback book and three glasses. The entry door is then closed, the book placed on the floor inside the door's path, and the glasses stacked into a pyramid. One of Joker's gas grenades is then placed inside the top glass, and the pin pulled, with the glass holding the "spoon" in place, preventing immediate detonation.

    We have now created a simple proximity mine.

    Next is the bait; we need Mary to -want- to enter the apartment. Simply turning on the light would be effective enough (the only lit apartment in a city block is quite a beacon), but Joker is a showoff at heart, so lets assume he does something odd like turn on any derelict electronics, write lewd messages on the windows with abandoned lipstick, whatever floats his boat and can be done quickly. He then moves to the bathroom, and uses the acid flower to melt the floor, opening a passage to the apartment below (if the flower is not powerful enough to do the job, he grabs a kitchen knife and goes to work).

    Now in the lower apartment, Joker unlocks the door and walks out. At this point he can either...

    A) Do more mean things to the apartment complex
    B) Make a run for it, to either hope for the best or rig more buildings/ cars/ whatever
    C) Head over to the building across the way and break into another apartment to watch the show from.

    Mary is no fool, but from the descriptions given in this fight, she is not one to shy away from conflict (if I could set s**t on fire with my mind, I wouldn't either), so she will investigate. Her strategic knowledge would tell her that flying around willy-nilly is a bad idea in an urban enviroment (what with modern rocket launchers and all), so foot travel is the way to go, and as there is no fire escape for the apartment (see what I mean?), the inside stairs is the way to go.

    Now when she reaches the apartment, there is no knowing what personality will be in charge. So, commence speculation...

    1) Personality that has no clue what it is doing: Will timidly open the door, or just run the other direction (no Pro-Mary scenario assumes this personality will be in force, so neither will we. It is mentioned for completeness).
    2) "Skilled but not psychotic" personality: Aware of the possibility of a trap, she will slowly open the door, checking for tripwires and sensors (the two most logical vectors for a door-based trap) before making entry. It is at this point that the door hits the book, causing the pyramid to fall, setting off the grenade. Pamf HaHaHa Thud.
    3) Bloody Mary: Kicks the door flat off it's hinges in a fit of man-hating homicidal rage triggering the grenade, or flies up to the window and blasts the s**t out of the apartment with no regard for personal safety or tactics, cooking off the grenade in the process. See 2 for final results.

    And if the gambit fails, what is the end result for the Joker? He is down one gas grenade and a shot of the acid flower, and is up by whatever else he snagged in the apartments on his way through, as well as valuable knowledge as to the capabilities of his enemy.
    ...Man. The match is over, Joker lost. Wow, that was a very detailed explanation but.....it seems futile.

    Blankspace on
    SIG.gif
  • ExcessiveKnifeExcessiveKnife Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    ...Man. The match is over, Joker lost. Wow, that was a very detailed explanation but.....it seems futile.

    I know. Came in late, but still felt the urge to pull for him. Besides, elaborate schemes are fun.

    ExcessiveKnife on
    The mad beeper is on the loose!
  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    ...Man. The match is over, Joker lost. Wow, that was a very detailed explanation but.....it seems futile.

    I know. Came in late, but still felt the urge to pull for him. Besides, elaborate schemes are fun.

    Definetly a good try, more thought into the fight than we've seen.

    Marathon on
  • ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Now a scenario where Mary wins

    Mary sees Joker

    Joker bursts into flames and dies a fiery death

    the end

    Scooter on
  • ExcessiveKnifeExcessiveKnife Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Scooter wrote:
    Now a scenario where Mary wins

    Mary sees Joker

    Joker bursts into flames and dies a fiery death

    the end

    While this scenario has a nice straightforward effectiveness, if "Mary sees Joker" translates into "Mary sees Joker by the light of his muzzle flash", than Mary does not win by default. Each party has a weapon that translates into "instant win" if they get the drop on the other; Mary can light the Joker on fire, Joker can blast the back of Mary's crazy little head in. And as for the whole "speed of thought" argument, human reaction time has nothing on a flying bullet fired anywhere within a pistol's effective range. If the gun goes off first, and the Joker doesn't bork the job (a fair assumption, as we are assuming Mary doesn't have the "weak" personality behind the wheel), Mary loses.

    And yes, I know the fight is over and this changes nothing, but it still should be said.

    ExcessiveKnife on
    The mad beeper is on the loose!
  • mcwillipmcwillip Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    faster than thought is the worst concept to be conceived. ever. in any dimension. in several non-existant ones as well.

    mcwillip on
  • deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Mary dodges bullets all the time.

    deadonthestreet on
  • ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Almost all comic characters manage to dodge bullets on a regular basis. It's part of the "we don't like to kill off our characters" thing.

    Scooter on
  • MonkeydryeMonkeydrye Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    I hate all the "how would he do it" crap...I gave an example and everyone ignored it...because they didn't want a real answer. As for the tk shield crap, if it holds back gasses (which joker would use) it holds back oxygen and she passes out. If she is powerful enough to pick and choose on a molecular level what can get through and what doesn't...well, why the hell is she a DD villain then? She soulds a lot closer to a cosmic entity the way you guys tout her.

    Monkeydrye on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2006
    This rock won't bleed!

    Munkus Beaver on
    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Scooter wrote:
    Now a scenario where Mary wins

    Mary sees Joker

    Joker bursts into flames and dies a fiery death

    the end

    Except Mary likes to play with her prey, and doesn't tend to immediately set fire to someone even when she's fighting them.

    Spectre-x on
  • robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Scooter wrote:
    Now a scenario where Mary wins

    Mary sees Joker

    Joker bursts into flames and dies a fiery death

    the end

    Except Mary likes to play with her prey, and doesn't tend to immediately set fire to someone even when she's fighting them.
    Didn't someone say that, the last time Mary fought Daredevil, she set him on fire immediately?

    robosagogo on
  • Mai-KeroMai-Kero Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    robosagogo wrote:
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Scooter wrote:
    Now a scenario where Mary wins

    Mary sees Joker

    Joker bursts into flames and dies a fiery death

    the end

    Except Mary likes to play with her prey, and doesn't tend to immediately set fire to someone even when she's fighting them.
    Didn't someone say that, the last time Mary fought Daredevil, she set him on fire immediately?

    That would be the best comic ever.

    "No daredevil you're fine she always plays with her victims first."

    "Alright."

    fight starts

    "OH MY GOD WHY AM I ON FIRE"

    Mai-Kero on
  • Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited November 2006
    robosagogo wrote:
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Scooter wrote:
    Now a scenario where Mary wins

    Mary sees Joker

    Joker bursts into flames and dies a fiery death

    the end

    Except Mary likes to play with her prey, and doesn't tend to immediately set fire to someone even when she's fighting them.
    Didn't someone say that, the last time Mary fought Daredevil, she set him on fire immediately?

    Did I say she never does this? I say it's uncommon for her to do this. Which I'm pretty sure it is. The odds of this happening were slim.

    Spectre-x on
  • robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    It was her most recent appearance, though, and we're meant to use the most recent incarnations of characters in these battles unless otherwise stated.

    robosagogo on
  • Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited November 2006
    robosagogo wrote:
    It was her most recent appearance, though, and we're meant to use the most recent incarnations of characters in these battles unless otherwise stated.

    That makes no sense. Just because she did it in her most recent appearance doesn't mean it wasn't special.

    Spectre-x on
  • robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    It's indicative of her current mental state.

    robosagogo on
  • mcwillipmcwillip Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    robosagogo wrote:
    It's indicative of her current mental state.


    ...


    ...


    ...


    ...bitch is crazy. aka NOTHING is indicative of her current mental state.

    mcwillip on
  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Spectre-x wrote:
    robosagogo wrote:
    It was her most recent appearance, though, and we're meant to use the most recent incarnations of characters in these battles unless otherwise stated.

    That makes no sense. Just because she did it in her most recent appearance doesn't mean it wasn't special.

    No but it also means that it is just as possible as her toying with him. It's a 50/50 chance she will either toy with Joker or burn him the instant she lays eyes on him. My guess is, that in a fight like this where she knows the other fighter is out to kill her not just catch her and put her in jail would push her towards the burn on sight move.

    Either way, the fight's over.

    Marathon on
  • MonkeydryeMonkeydrye Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Ok, so she burned DD last appearence. To the best of my Knowledge DD is still ALIVE, not charred ashes. Lighting a fire, and killing someone right away are two different things. Even IF Joker let her get a bead on her and she lit him up, what is to stop him from running around, screaming, rolling in agony till he got close enough to gas, acid, volt her?

    And yeah, she has a TK thing..she COULD do something...but would she? Or lik emost villians, would she sit their, gloating?

    Monkeydrye on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Sign In or Register to comment.