The issue with cooldowns is that they're even more work to track than the resource system Unity has.
You could probably play around with reset triggers like a lot of martial charms in Exalted use. I.E. 'Reset this charm at the end of the encounter OR when you do X'
Which can be used to both reinforce theme, give classes different senses of tempo and shape tactics by making powers things you have to actively seek to bring back.
Yeah I haven't read the Unity system (I know it was linked earlier and plan to read it when I have time). Cooldowns are definitely a complexity issue, but in my opinion, it's just not possible to get the upgraded and improved 4E experience without a heavy complexity load. Recharges are easier, which is why 4E has monster powers with recharge instead of the 3.X cooldowns (dragon breath comes to mind).
A reset trigger seems like a possible solution to me, though I wouldn't want anything to reset just for the encounter ending, as a general rule. I don't feel that encounter-based design, and especially encounter-based full resource recovery, is interesting or fun in a tabletop RPG. It warps the way people act in encounters, because they want to make sure they use their resources before they get them to reset for free.
I would be more open to encounter-based resources in a system where rounds took much less time and so you got to go through more of them (thus giving you an actual resource management game to play, instead of 'do I even get to use all of these before the fight ends'), but that's not 4E. I've never encountered a tabletop RPG that managed to hit both the 'you can make an interesting choice every single turn' and 'your turn can be resolved quickly' targets. 4E very much chooses to hit the first target and ignore the second one. I'd also be more open to encounter-based resources if there was only a partial recovery; if at the end of every encounter, you recharged one encounter power of your choice (instead of all of them), I would find that a more interesting choice to make.
The issue with cooldowns is that they're even more work to track than the resource system Unity has.
You could probably play around with reset triggers like a lot of martial charms in Exalted use. I.E. 'Reset this charm at the end of the encounter OR when you do X'
Which can be used to both reinforce theme, give classes different senses of tempo and shape tactics by making powers things you have to actively seek to bring back.
Yeah I haven't read the Unity system (I know it was linked earlier and plan to read it when I have time). Cooldowns are definitely a complexity issue, but in my opinion, it's just not possible to get the upgraded and improved 4E experience without a heavy complexity load. Recharges are easier, which is why 4E has monster powers with recharge instead of the 3.X cooldowns (dragon breath comes to mind).
A reset trigger seems like a possible solution to me, though I wouldn't want anything to reset just for the encounter ending, as a general rule. I don't feel that encounter-based design, and especially encounter-based full resource recovery, is interesting or fun in a tabletop RPG. It warps the way people act in encounters, because they want to make sure they use their resources before they get them to reset for free.
I would be more open to encounter-based resources in a system where rounds took much less time and so you got to go through more of them (thus giving you an actual resource management game to play, instead of 'do I even get to use all of these before the fight ends'), but that's not 4E. I've never encountered a tabletop RPG that managed to hit both the 'you can make an interesting choice every single turn' and 'your turn can be resolved quickly' targets. 4E very much chooses to hit the first target and ignore the second one. I'd also be more open to encounter-based resources if there was only a partial recovery; if at the end of every encounter, you recharged one encounter power of your choice (instead of all of them), I would find that a more interesting choice to make.
The resource mechanic in Unity is just a mana pool by various names for the classes. It refreshes when you roll doubles in a roll. So you aren't sure when you'll get more of it and have to plan based on uncertainty (which is a good way to prompt interesting choices).
Another option you could do is, rather than individual cooldowns, have a shared recovery amount that pools up over turns and then can be spread out to powers.
The resource mechanic in Unity is just a mana pool by various names for the classes. It refreshes when you roll doubles in a roll. So you aren't sure when you'll get more of it and have to plan based on uncertainty (which is a good way to prompt interesting choices).
Another option you could do is, rather than individual cooldowns, have a shared recovery amount that pools up over turns and then can be spread out to powers.
Interesting! That sounds like a really neat mechanic.
I also agree, a shared 'resource' pool that you spend on powers is definitely a way that can be used to reduce the complexity of individual cooldowns. Different classes can have a different resource and different ways of recovering it (mana/rage/energy/what have you), which gives you design space to play in and ways to make classes unique. You can also make powers feel more unique and interesting by playing around with their cost and the other ways they interact with the resource and so on.
I'd definitely be interested in 4e style encounter and daily powers that refreshed in the style of like, Dungeon World alignment triggers
Oh hey whoops I accidentally wrote out a full pitch for this:
You are a hero.
You won the war. The war had lasted for ages, it was a war that everyone thought would never end, but you and your closest companions provided the crucial move that won it.
The war that has consumed the last decade of your life, the war that you worried would consume the rest of your life, the war has come to an end, and now all you have to do is return home.
But returning home is not easy. Home is far away, and the path there isn't easy. You are a hero of the war, sure, but the war is over. You're no longer that hero, no matter the stories people tell and the songs people sing. All you are is a person who wants to return home.
At the start of the game you have all (or nearly all) of your abilities. Every monumental godlike feat that you could accomplish is available to you. Once. Once you use the ability, it is no longer available, until you fulfill the very specific trigger that is required to refresh that ability. If you manage to do that, the ability will be available to you again, but once you've used it again, you'll need to find a way to refresh it once more.
Rather than gaining new abilities through experience, you gain new ways to refresh your existing abilities. Nothing too easy, of course - you will never be the person you were the day the war ended - but enough to hopefully keep you alive until you are able to make it home and retire.
(this is obviously based really heavily on the story of Odysseus, although I don't actually think that keeping that particular setting intact is worthwhile and if I were to create it as a full thing I would probably end up in either a more standard fantasy or maybe an intergalactic science fiction milieu)
Posts
Yeah I haven't read the Unity system (I know it was linked earlier and plan to read it when I have time). Cooldowns are definitely a complexity issue, but in my opinion, it's just not possible to get the upgraded and improved 4E experience without a heavy complexity load. Recharges are easier, which is why 4E has monster powers with recharge instead of the 3.X cooldowns (dragon breath comes to mind).
A reset trigger seems like a possible solution to me, though I wouldn't want anything to reset just for the encounter ending, as a general rule. I don't feel that encounter-based design, and especially encounter-based full resource recovery, is interesting or fun in a tabletop RPG. It warps the way people act in encounters, because they want to make sure they use their resources before they get them to reset for free.
I would be more open to encounter-based resources in a system where rounds took much less time and so you got to go through more of them (thus giving you an actual resource management game to play, instead of 'do I even get to use all of these before the fight ends'), but that's not 4E. I've never encountered a tabletop RPG that managed to hit both the 'you can make an interesting choice every single turn' and 'your turn can be resolved quickly' targets. 4E very much chooses to hit the first target and ignore the second one. I'd also be more open to encounter-based resources if there was only a partial recovery; if at the end of every encounter, you recharged one encounter power of your choice (instead of all of them), I would find that a more interesting choice to make.
DIESEL
Against the Fall of Night Playtest
Nasty, Brutish, and Short
The resource mechanic in Unity is just a mana pool by various names for the classes. It refreshes when you roll doubles in a roll. So you aren't sure when you'll get more of it and have to plan based on uncertainty (which is a good way to prompt interesting choices).
Another option you could do is, rather than individual cooldowns, have a shared recovery amount that pools up over turns and then can be spread out to powers.
Interesting! That sounds like a really neat mechanic.
I also agree, a shared 'resource' pool that you spend on powers is definitely a way that can be used to reduce the complexity of individual cooldowns. Different classes can have a different resource and different ways of recovering it (mana/rage/energy/what have you), which gives you design space to play in and ways to make classes unique. You can also make powers feel more unique and interesting by playing around with their cost and the other ways they interact with the resource and so on.
DIESEL
Against the Fall of Night Playtest
Nasty, Brutish, and Short
Sophisticated forest dwellers who want nothing to do with the outside world and will utterly fuck up anyone who intrudes is a thing I am very into.
Oh hey whoops I accidentally wrote out a full pitch for this:
You are a hero.
You won the war. The war had lasted for ages, it was a war that everyone thought would never end, but you and your closest companions provided the crucial move that won it.
The war that has consumed the last decade of your life, the war that you worried would consume the rest of your life, the war has come to an end, and now all you have to do is return home.
But returning home is not easy. Home is far away, and the path there isn't easy. You are a hero of the war, sure, but the war is over. You're no longer that hero, no matter the stories people tell and the songs people sing. All you are is a person who wants to return home.
At the start of the game you have all (or nearly all) of your abilities. Every monumental godlike feat that you could accomplish is available to you. Once. Once you use the ability, it is no longer available, until you fulfill the very specific trigger that is required to refresh that ability. If you manage to do that, the ability will be available to you again, but once you've used it again, you'll need to find a way to refresh it once more.
Rather than gaining new abilities through experience, you gain new ways to refresh your existing abilities. Nothing too easy, of course - you will never be the person you were the day the war ended - but enough to hopefully keep you alive until you are able to make it home and retire.
(this is obviously based really heavily on the story of Odysseus, although I don't actually think that keeping that particular setting intact is worthwhile and if I were to create it as a full thing I would probably end up in either a more standard fantasy or maybe an intergalactic science fiction milieu)