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Charcuterie 101 - The Silence you hear is the meat deliciousifying...

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  • RightfulSinRightfulSin Registered User regular
    So when it says in the jerky section that Pink Salt was used, which one was used? Cure #1 or #2? Also, is there a way to make it long term shelf stable? I mean that as in no freezing/refrigeration needed, and have jerky last long term? I want to make it long term because I get game meat as well as buy in bulk when on sale and storing that much in the frig/freezer would take tons of space.
    Would using the cure and simply really really drying it out work to make it last a long time out of refrigeration? Thanks for the help.

    "If nothing is impossible, than would it not be impossible to find something that you could not do?" - Me
  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    Once it's done, you should be able to vacuum seal it for years in theory

    just make sure it's good and dry and it was an extremely lean cut of meat

  • RightfulSinRightfulSin Registered User regular
    Vacuum seal. Now would bagging it and putting oxygen absorbers work the same to get rid of the air left in the bag(s)? Also, again what type is the pink salt that he said he used? I can get either if therm off of Amazon, I'm just wondering which one Pink Curing Salt #1 or #2.

    "If nothing is impossible, than would it not be impossible to find something that you could not do?" - Me
  • MaguanoMaguano Registered User regular
    if I remember correctly cure 1 is typically used for "quick" curing things, and #2 is used for country hams/prosciutto/long term curing things

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  • RightfulSinRightfulSin Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    I checked that, and it seems that that is the case. So would heat sealing with oxygen absorbers closely replicate vacuum sealing?

    Edit: thanks the advice and tips so far guys.

    RightfulSin on
    "If nothing is impossible, than would it not be impossible to find something that you could not do?" - Me
  • darkmayodarkmayo Registered User regular
    I checked that, and it seems that that is the case. So would heat sealing with oxygen absorbers closely replicate vacuum sealing?

    Edit: thanks the advice and tips so far guys.

    probably not but I haven't ever tried, if all the oxygen is gone then maybe? if you are doing large quantity of meats owning a vac sealer is a great investment.

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  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    There are anaerobic bacteria that don't need oxygen to make your food inedible and toxic. Botulism is caused by one of those bacteria.

    Don't rely on vacuum sealing and oxygen absorbers as your only food safety mechanism. The point of vacuum sealing before freezing is to remove surface area for freezer burn and ice damage to appear and prevent the ability for air to enter the bag and decrease the quality of the food. Freezing itself pretty much stops all bacteria activity, and, theoretically, vacuum sealed food that's frozen will be safe to eat almost indefinitely. Though, there will be a slight texture and possibly taste changes over time (quality decrease as mentioned by the FDA).

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    dumb question

    can you corn any cut of beef? I really enjoy brisket and everything, but by the time you remove a bunch of fat, you end up losing 2/5 of the cut. I don't want a big old plate of corned fat hash, and I'd rather not pay for it either.

  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    yes

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    No reason you couldn't do it with pork or chicken too, it's essentially a brine with some other stuff tossed in.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • CarpyCarpy Registered User regular
    My mother-in-law and I were talking about this the other day and apparently bottom round and eye round are commonly corned along with the usual brisket.

  • amateurhouramateurhour One day I'll be professionalhour The woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered User regular
    Rightful if you're looking for a good way to do long term meats that don't need any special refrigeration look into pemmican

    pemmican + hard tack + some kind of liquid = food for 20 years

    are YOU on the beer list?
  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    oh I'm glad someone mentioned pemmican because I don't understand it at all.

    every recipe for any applicable meat will lead with the fact that fat goes rancid seemingly over night .... so how come mixing it with dried meat and dried fruit somehow makes it not go rancid for 10 years (slight exaggeration)?

  • amateurhouramateurhour One day I'll be professionalhour The woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    oh I'm glad someone mentioned pemmican because I don't understand it at all.

    every recipe for any applicable meat will lead with the fact that fat goes rancid seemingly over night .... so how come mixing it with dried meat and dried fruit somehow makes it not go rancid for 10 years (slight exaggeration)?

    I honestly don't know. It has three ingredients: rendered beef tallow, meat, and blueberries, and that shit stays good for years.

    No clue.

    are YOU on the beer list?
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited March 2018
    It's essentially a type of rendered jerky. E: When you remove the water via rendering from the fat you're removing two of the spoiling methods (water spoiling/oxidation), and storing it in the airtight containers in a cool/dry/dark place keeps the bacteria away too.

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • m!ttensm!ttens he/himRegistered User regular
    Made a small pastrami (maybe 2 lb?) today, thanks to the awesome instructions provided by Thegreatcow. It sat in the cure for about a week though because I was super busy at work and couldn't pull out the smoker until this morning.

    5s0sjmY.jpg

  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    I ordered another meat grinder (hopefully this one doesn't break the second time I use it) and am saving up for a LEM sausage stuffer

    making your own sausage is really really good

  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    What kind of casing are you planning to use?

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    natural hog middles

    they're cheaper and recommended

  • RightfulSinRightfulSin Registered User regular
    Hey, so I read somewhere about possibly using a mixed water and potassium sorbate solution applied to jerky bwfore drying to greatly extend the nonrefrigerated shelf life of jerky. Can anybody confirm? I am looking to use my dehydrator and to make jerky that can last a whilw qithout need of refrigeration or freezing. How would sodium nitrite and potassium sorbate qork at achieving this? I have access to larger game and I would like ro make large batches of jerky, but I tend to be the only main one that eats it, so I don't fo through it super fast. Thank you for the help.

    "If nothing is impossible, than would it not be impossible to find something that you could not do?" - Me
  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    I would like to make duck prosciutto in my refrigerator.

    Does anyone have a good recipe?

    I have never cured any meats, but it looks fairly simple and fun

  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    if you do it take lots of pictures because I am interested

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • darkmayodarkmayo Registered User regular
    edited September 2018
    I would like to make duck prosciutto in my refrigerator.

    Does anyone have a good recipe?

    I have never cured any meats, but it looks fairly simple and fun

    My brother did duck prosciutto a year ago. First attempt at doing anything like it and it and it turned out great (sadly I dont know the recipe) he ended up curing a bunch of other stuff. Now he is really into beer making, ill have to ask he if he still doing the meats.

    this was the duck
    haybr6ugrsg9.jpg

    darkmayo on
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  • darkmayodarkmayo Registered User regular
    edited September 2018
    Cider Updates

    Since the posts last summer, I had done several batches of ciders and kits.

    The mixed fruit batches were alright, Cherry and Cran where pretty good, the POM one was a little too subtle to make it worth buying that expensive juice.

    Did a few more kits over the winter/spring. Those all turned out great.

    Ended up getting a press for Christmas, and used that to press a gallon worth of juice before I stopped pressing and ordered a bigger one online. I had 300lbs of apples that we picked from the in laws acreage and the little press I had wasn't going to cut it.

    The first gallon I pressed finished about 2 weeks ago, and its pretty good, still a little too dry, that was just made up of one type of apples from the tree.

    Sadly while waiting for the press to show up the rest of the apples rotted away except for the red apples.

    It was tragic.. but it did save me from figuring out what I was going to store 14 gallons of cider in. (I was looking at kegs, and back carbonating it with CO2 instead of bottle carbonating, as I didn't feel like buying, cleaning and filling a hundred or so bottles)

    The wife ended up picking a bunch of the plums that were ripening a few weeks after we picked the apples. Ended up taking a crack at making Plum Wine and I have a gallon of Plum mystery booze that went through the same process as I do with apples... we will see how that turns out.

    Picking Apples
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    Sexy Apple in the Rain
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    The Haul
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    Plum Wine (technically it will be plum infused vodka, as I cant get Ume Plums here nor can I get cheap Shochu.. but I think it will work out nicely regardless)
    t5ldeqkgobfo.jpg

    Plum.... something
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    hasnt been much meat smoking this summer, did some ribs here, a batch of jerky there... we ended up getting nailed with the smoke from the BC fires so I wasnt really in the mood to add more to it.

    darkmayo on
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  • Magus`Magus` The fun has been DOUBLED! Registered User regular
    Looking for a good grill and smoker combo but it's hard to tell what's good quality or just has a high rating but is actually shitty.

    Any one got some suggestions? Trying to keep it $400 or less if at all possible.

  • ThegreatcowThegreatcow Lord of All Bacons Washington State - It's Wet up here innit? Registered User regular
    Magus` wrote: »
    Looking for a good grill and smoker combo but it's hard to tell what's good quality or just has a high rating but is actually shitty.

    Any one got some suggestions? Trying to keep it $400 or less if at all possible.

    I've always been a fan of the Kamado grills for sheer versatility and cooking power. It's a tad over 400 as your budget, but this Kamado Jr would be pretty close.

    https://www.amazon.com/Kamado-Joe-KJ13RH-Grill-Red/dp/B00IJ74RBO/ref=asc_df_B00IJ74RBO/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198061703654&hvpos=1o4&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13012447514458449775&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9060229&hvtargid=pla-330457715499&psc=1

    Fantastic temp control and you can smoke and grill and bake all in one if you don't mind charcoal.

    Though this vendor has it for 400 if you're still interested. https://www.abt.com/product/101863/Kamado-Joe-13.5-Joe-Jr.-Red-Ceramic-Grill-KJ13RH.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=sc&camptype=cpcUSGooglePLA&utm_source=google&utm_medium=sc&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI4O3P7tnw4gIVD9vACh0zRAm5EAYYASABEgLEnfD_BwE

    It's a bit on the smaller side, but offers phenomenal performance.

  • Magus`Magus` The fun has been DOUBLED! Registered User regular
    edited July 2019
    So I tried out smoking for the first time and had some issues:

    I used lump charcoal as suggested by the internets. It would either not stay lit or if it did, the temperature would be twice the level I wanted. That might be because the brand, Cowboy, is supposedly terrible?

    I tried using those little cube fire starters but they would also go out unless I left the grill completely open. By the time the charcoal would start smoldering I was way above temp.

    When I finally got the charcoal to remain lit at not 500 degrees, it would not stay at a consistent temp without a lot of babysitting. I had to constantly open and close the dampers and even then it would hover around 300 degrees.

    I made two different things over two days:

    Brisket which came out "ok". The flavor was nice but the small bit of fat on it didn't melt into the meat (or does it not do that?). The meat was also not very tender - probably from taking forever to get the smoker stable.

    The second was chicken which just came out a rubbery, bland mess. I blame not being able to get the smoker to stay at 225. Not to mention if I didn't leave the top damper open (which let out a lot of smoke) the coals would either die or quickly drop below 200 degrees no matter what the bottom damper looked like.

    The smoker I used was the little Char-Griller kamado smoker which got pretty good reviews and wasn't terribly expensive. If I could just get the goddamn temperature to stay constant I think I'd be golden.

    Any thoughts? I get the concept and I know it's a learning process but it's very frustrating.

    Magus` on
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Charcoal smokers like that one and the green egg tend to be a lot more finicky and require you to basically babysit it every 30-45 minutes to keep temp by messing with the dampers. Not to mention smaller ones don't tend to have enough room to do the snake/indirect method. Also the in built temp gauges tend to be not accurate at all and most recommend external thermometers. They're labors of love compared to the set it and forget it propane or electric models.

    Brisket fat doesn't really melt into the brisket, the middle fat layer should melt in your mouth.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • ThegreatcowThegreatcow Lord of All Bacons Washington State - It's Wet up here innit? Registered User regular
    Agree with bowen. Charcoal is a tricky beast to work with with smoking. You'll have to get a solid multi probe thermometer when starting out, one for the meat and one for the ambient temps inside the egg and basically adjust and move the vents accordingly.

    Also I'd recommend one of charcoal starter chimneys for building your fire. They get the charcoal right where you need it to be, and then you add it to the egg.

    Now i realize you spent a bunch of money on the egg already, but later on down the line, you can modify your egg with one of these:

    https://bbqguru.com/storenav/gurucookerguide?DeviceModelId=102&ProductId=0

    They're basically automated temp probes mated to a controller which then controls a blower fan which you affix to the lower vent. They make the managing of the charcoal fire a lot easier to do, and I've personally used these setups on my friend's large egg as well. Only downside as noted is that they're expensive as heck, not going to sugarcoat it. But they do make the management of charcoal fires in those things significantly easier and should result in a faster learning curve when working with this grill.

  • Magus`Magus` The fun has been DOUBLED! Registered User regular
    Aww, I was told it was a hands off thing.

    I'll try the chimney out. Might need to invest in a wireless thermometer?

  • ThegreatcowThegreatcow Lord of All Bacons Washington State - It's Wet up here innit? Registered User regular
    Aye if you're running back and forth from the grill to your house/deck a wireless one is nice to have, but relying on the wifi signal and batteries can cause issues unless you're studious about keeping the batteries swapped out.

    As for hands off, for grilling, oh yeah charcoal is pretty hands off nowadays, you pretty much start in a chimney, get them gray, and toss them in, and adjust height and airflow and you're pretty much good to grill. Smoking on the other hand requires a lot more fnagling, you're trying to feed just the right amount of air and heat into your smokebox through a pile of burning fuel, definitely a lot more involved. The upside is once you nail the tending habits, the results are fantastic.

  • Magus`Magus` The fun has been DOUBLED! Registered User regular
    Any suggestions on low prep meats to smoke? Things that include multiple hours and over a dozen steps of prep time scare me.

  • ThegreatcowThegreatcow Lord of All Bacons Washington State - It's Wet up here innit? Registered User regular
    Magus` wrote: »
    Any suggestions on low prep meats to smoke? Things that include multiple hours and over a dozen steps of prep time scare me.

    Probably the most forgiving is Pork butt. It comes in a lot of varieties but if you ask your meat counter guy, I'm sure they'll have it already packaged to go. Smoke it at around 225 or so until the center reaches 150-160. Prep is pretty much whatever flavor you like, but the good standby is salt, pepper, garlic powder and paprika. Generously coat the outside of the roast and make sure the smoke chamber is moist with a water pan at all times. If you're not able to rig a water pan on the inside of the grill, you can hot smoke it at 225-250 for about 2-3 hours, then remove it from the grill. Then, you can place it in the deepest roasting pan you have on hand, add enough water to the pan to have about 1-1.5 inches on the bottom, and then tightly cover and seal the pan with a lid or foil. Put it in the oven and bake it at 250 for another 2-3 hours or until the pork butt is fork shreddable. The pork should be nice and moist and super tender and it'll still have a great smoke flavor as well. From there, you can shred it and toss it with whatever sauce or relish you like. I've done it this way with great success over the years.

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  • ThegreatcowThegreatcow Lord of All Bacons Washington State - It's Wet up here innit? Registered User regular
    Excellent! Then yeah it should work just fine. If you decide to do the whole thing in the smoker, one way you can speed things up is a technique called "Texas Crutch" method, it's basically the method I described in the previous post, just that you're doing it in the smoker.

    Get your smoker to about 250 degrees and smoke the butt until it reaches 165 or so. Then, remove the the butt and either wrap it in butcher paper or a shallow aluminum pan. If you want to add extra flavor via a "mop sauce" you can do so while cooking the butt up to this point. (Mops are basically very thin barbecue sauces that add extra flavor to the meat by brushing it over the meat while it's cooking but don't burn as easily as thicker sauces do). From here, return the butt to the smoker in the foil/butcher paper/pan to the smoker and continue smoking until the internal temps of the butt reach about 200 or so. This is the point where the meat will become fork shreddable and you'll be good to go! The smoke flavor will be a lot more intense here and does save you the hassle of transferring it to your oven. Factor in about 1.5-2 hours per pound for your butt when cooking. You can speed things up a tad by portioning out the butt like I did above, this can save you some time on the cooking end as the smoke and heat will penetrate the sections faster, but you run the risk of drying out the meat. Thus, I recommend the oven braise finish with these cuts to ensure they stay moist.

  • Magus`Magus` The fun has been DOUBLED! Registered User regular
    So latest attempt:

    Chose the smoke pork butt this time. Went better than the previous smokes but still had some issues.

    I got the charcoal chimney and used it to help get the smoker started. I also got some apple chips which I soaked prior to putting the meat in the smoker. I also put a thing of water on the diffuser plate. Here's the issues:

    The Akorn guide said the proper damper setting is closed on top and open to 1/4th on the bottom. This kills the coals no matter what. If I leave it open a smidge it stays lit but slowly eeks up past the 200-225 range. I also noticed that there is very little, y'know, smoke when I do this. I'm not sure if there should just be constant smoke or not?

    The internet said a better way of doing this is filling the smoker almost full and make a small gap in the middle to put your fire starter brick. It also says temperature should rise very slowly (it gave an estimated time of 40 minutes to reach 225 degrees) when mine gets up there way faster.

    I'll try this new method next time but it's getting pretty annoying to keep running into these issues. I mean, I'm enjoying the experience and I realize it takes awhile to get adept but still annoying.

    If anyone has some further tips, I'd appreciate it! I'll keep on doing my best to perfect what I'm doing. Thanks!

  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    If I remember right, on charcoal you want top vent wide open and bottom vent 3/4 to full open. You adjust these on windy days though. Don't soak the wood, you want the type of smoke that's got a blue haze to it, not the white/gray smoke of wet wood.

    Make sure you've got a water pan and if you can get to 225 for an hour or two you should be fine for smoking. Most of the smoke ring happens within the first 3 hours. You can transfer it to an oven after that point if the temp gets too high.

    But I'd try wide open on both vents to see how that does ya.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • darkmayodarkmayo Registered User regular
    edited July 2019
    Smoked Turkey is always good times. Brine you meat first then throw it in the smoker. I tend to go with legs or breasts instead of whole birds but a whole turkey also turns out great too.

    Most I have done this summer is a batch of Jerky, which turned out really good. Ended up just giving the jerky a few hours in the smoke and then finished the jerky in my dehydrator.

    Was just looking at my last post from almost last year. I used my smaller press to do about a gallon of cider out of the yellow apples, it took forever to do that one so I held off on doing more as I had a bigger press coming. Sadly I waited way too long and all the yellow ones rotted, and I managed to save about 2 gallons worth of cider from the red apples.

    Will have more apples this summer to pick but not as many as last year. Have two crab apple trees in my yard so hopefully we get a nice amount from those (we just moved in)

    The Plum "Wine" (sugar and plum infused vodka) turned out fucking amazing. cracked into it in May which was about 9 months after putting it together. Delicious, smooth, sweet and hits like truck. Hopefully I can get some Shochu this year so I can make another batch that wont punch you in the face after one glass. Eating a plum has a lovely burn that reminds me of a plum brandy.

    pzp42so2mdxq.jpeg

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    I have one more 3L container full of this stuff that I wont touch for awhile longer. Gave the other one I had to a friend.

    darkmayo on
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