Yeah, there's no reason it should be failing. Just make happy crowd pleasing hits using bold colors, pleasant characters, clear villains and simple themes. Sure. You won't win any film awards, but you'll make a few bucks no problem.
Really WB just needs to get over the WE ARE THE ANTI-MARVEL attitude.
Also making characters not wildly diverge from their essential natures would be helpful.
The main issue since the start has been that DC was impatient and wanted Marvel's success with none of the groundwork.
I'd argue that they could have gotten 'the groundwork' in place trivially if they hadn't decided they also wanted to re-invent the characters. If Superman is Superman, then everyone already KNOWS Superman and what he's about. He is your way in to this strange world. Pop out a few animated movies and then off to the races you go.
The main issue since the start has been that DC was impatient and wanted Marvel's success with none of the groundwork.
I'd argue that they could have gotten 'the groundwork' in place trivially if they hadn't decided they also wanted to re-invent the characters. If Superman is Superman, then everyone already KNOWS Superman and what he's about. He is your way in to this strange world. Pop out a few animated movies and then off to the races you go.
Yeah, it'd be tough but it wouldn't have been impossible to have post-MoS Superman gradually learn from his experiences and become the person we know, or a non-offensive facsimile. Justice League spoilers
It's a pity we only got this version after had to be resurrected, and retconned the hell out of, because there was absolutely no way Superman would have been able to turn himself around as a character or his reputation to the world post-B vs S.
There's never been a Flash movie so I don't see why they wouldn't just call it The Flash. Getting too complicated is dumb. If it does well and there's a sequel then you can call it "Flash 2: Yellow Electric Boogaloo" or whatever.
After The Dark Knight and Man of Steel, I'll put low but respectable odds on 'The Fastest Man Alive' as a title.
Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
GoTG and Iron Man have both done well enough without any sort of fancy pants titles. I'll be shocked if the worst thing about the Flash movie is the title.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
I just thought of a Parents Getting Mugged in an Alley scene I'd actually like to see in a DC movie.
Start with the standard setup, the mum and dad with their kid, taking a shortcut through the alley, obviously leave some time for the eye-rolling in the audience as they brace themselves for the devastating trauma of watching Batman's origin again.
Then have Batman (or Superman. Or Flash. Wonder Woman, anyone) swoop in and save them at the last moment. What, you though this was a flashback and those were Bruce's parents? Those have been done to death, why would we show you that again?
I just thought of a Parents Getting Mugged in an Alley scene I'd actually like to see in a DC movie.
Start with the standard setup, the mum and dad with their kid, taking a shortcut through the alley, obviously leave some time for the eye-rolling in the audience as they brace themselves for the devastating trauma of watching Batman's origin again.
Then have Batman (or Superman. Or Flash. Wonder Woman, anyone) swoop in and save them at the last moment. What, you though this was a flashback and those were Bruce's parents? Those have been done to death, why would we show you that again?
I just thought of a Parents Getting Mugged in an Alley scene I'd actually like to see in a DC movie.
Start with the standard setup, the mum and dad with their kid, taking a shortcut through the alley, obviously leave some time for the eye-rolling in the audience as they brace themselves for the devastating trauma of watching Batman's origin again.
Then have Batman (or Superman. Or Flash. Wonder Woman, anyone) swoop in and save them at the last moment. What, you though this was a flashback and those were Bruce's parents? Those have been done to death, why would we show you that again?
I think so, but that was before it had become a standing joke.
If they did it now, it would be a good indicator that they're willing to laugh at themselves.
edit: And if it was the Flash movie, they could take it even further by having excessive slow-motion as the gun goes off. Then Flash runs in and catches the bullets.
i honestly don't think that a significant majority of ma and pa america actually would know that batman's parents were murdered in an alley even though they've seen it probably 5 times in a big movie. It's just some trivial piece of information about that crazy guy that dresses up like a bat. It's only really beaten to death in one movie. The rest of the movies that mention it simply use it as a way to get from bad gotham to badder gotham.
Of course you do! Because I am awesome and way better at this then the WB execs. (Not a high bar to clear tbh, but there you go).
I would forget the fucking Flashpoint retcon they seem to be setting up and which everybody is expecting and instead lean into the NEW GODS movie as the source. Why? Mostly because Flashpoint sucked donkey balls in all its incarnations. You name it, Comics, Animation and Television, it was shit. Why should a movie be any better? Plus the basic gist of the Story was Barry Allen screws up. How can you fix thing by screwing up? (Dibs on this being the new thread title btw).
No what you have here is a reason to use Jack Kirby's finest contribution to DC. Why is Batman such a sourpus? Why is Superman such a angsty Objectivistloser? Why does the world look so drained of color they might as well shot it in B/W? Because the New Gods are involved! More precisely the dark gods of Apokolips. Its not Darkseid trying for the anti-life equation(got to save something for future movies), but the Dark Gods being dark gods.
You see in WW we established that the Greek gods are dead. It follows that the Norse, Irish, Aztec gods are also dead. Along with any minor pantheon that nobody cares about(don't as about the Hindus). In their place the New gods have arisen from mankind's mindscape until they became real. Only the Gods of Apokolips managed to shut the gods of New Genesis away from Earth. The reason the world is so dark? Because nobody can feel the light of New Genesis. All the good gods man has created from his mind are nowhere to be found.
UNTIL: Wonder Woman bumps into a strange guy named Scott Free aka Mr Miracle. Turns out she is a new god too. She is the last of the old and first of the new and Apokolips wants her dead in order to ensure their reign over humanity's is complete. As long as she exists, their control is under threat. For those that say "but WW isn't a new god" and "that isn't how it went in the comics", In the comics Starlord isn't the son of EGO and Hela isn't the daughter of Odin. Don't get stuck on continuity as long as the heart of it is kept. Wondy as a New God works for the story.
How and what happens on from there, I don't know, but I do know that the ending is the DCEU world suddenly being saturated by all the colors it lacked. Like going from 90% de- saturated footage into regular shots. In my dreams a retcon of terrible Pa Kent talking about letting kids die turning into him saying "Of course not son, but be careful showing your powers" happens. But that is a pipe dream of course.
Kipling217 on
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
I just thought of a Parents Getting Mugged in an Alley scene I'd actually like to see in a DC movie.
Start with the standard setup, the mum and dad with their kid, taking a shortcut through the alley, obviously leave some time for the eye-rolling in the audience as they brace themselves for the devastating trauma of watching Batman's origin again.
Then have Batman (or Superman. Or Flash. Wonder Woman, anyone) swoop in and save them at the last moment. What, you though this was a flashback and those were Bruce's parents? Those have been done to death, why would we show you that again?
Or have the kid punch the attacker through a wall, if you want an actual justification for Superman being a reluctant hero.
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
the next film will just be 150 minutes in crime alley
When the pearls fall in the middle, it will flashback to the whole thing from Joe Chill's perspective, and then flashback again when he fires the gun so we don't forget what happened at the beginning of the movie.
They should forego any attempt to explain or retcon the DCEU. Just bury it; it’s dead.
Soft reboot it by pretending that Wonder Woman was the only thing that was released, and maybe Man of Steel.
Make a good movie of any character not currently being used and let Wonder Woman be Nick Fury in the stinger. Then do it again and again until you have a team.
Of course you do! Because I am awesome and way better at this then the WB execs. (Not a high bar to clear tbh, but there you go).
I would forget the fucking Flashpoint retcon they seem to be setting up and which everybody is expecting and instead lean into the NEW GODS movie as the source. Why? Mostly because Flashpoint sucked donkey balls in all its incarnations. You name it, Comics, Animation and Television, it was shit. Why should a movie be any better? Plus the basic gist of the Story was Barry Allen screws up. How can you fix thing by screwing up? (Dibs on this being the new thread title btw).
No what you have here is a reason to use Jack Kirby's finest contribution to DC. Why is Batman such a sourpus? Why is Superman such a angsty Objectivistloser? Why does the world look so drained of color they might as well shot it in B/W? Because the New Gods are involved! More precisely the dark gods of Apokolips. Its not Darkseid trying for the anti-life equation(got to save something for future movies), but the Dark Gods being dark gods.
You see in WW we established that the Greek gods are dead. It follows that the Norse, Irish, Aztec gods are also dead. Along with any minor pantheon that nobody cares about(don't as about the Hindus). In their place the New gods have arisen from mankind's mindscape until they became real. Only the Gods of Apokolips managed to shut the gods of New Genesis away from Earth. The reason the world is so dark? Because nobody can feel the light of New Genesis. All the good gods man has created from his mind are nowhere to be found.
UNTIL: Wonder Woman bumps into a strange guy named Scott Free aka Mr Miracle. Turns out she is a new god too. She is the last of the old and first of the new and Apokolips wants her dead in order to ensure their reign over humanity's is complete. As long as she exists, their control is under threat. For those that say "but WW isn't a new god" and "that isn't how it went in the comics", In the comics Starlord isn't the son of EGO and Hela isn't the daughter of Odin. Don't get stuck on continuity as long as the heart of it is kept. Wondy as a New God works for the story.
How and what happens on from there, I don't know, but I do know that the ending is the DCEU world suddenly being saturated by all the colors it lacked. Like going from 90% de- saturated footage into regular shots. In my dreams a retcon of terrible Pa Kent talking about letting kids die turning into him saying "Of course not son, but be careful showing your powers" happens. But that is a pipe dream of course.
Eh, the reason Flashpoint doesn't work is that it took away characters and things we loved and replaced them with rubbish grimdark hundreds of zippers versions of themselves. In this case, flashpoint would give us back what we want. The whole problem with DC is the lack of grounding and 'reference' characters to reel you in. The new gods are great, but they are kinda confusing and weird. For DC to work you need a functional
1) Batman
2) Superman
3) Wonder woman
4) Flash
And then you can build on that strong base to give you all the crazy incredibly powerful characters DC is known for.
Flashpoint. Boom. Old DC movieverse gone. Only flash and Diana are the 'same'. Everyone else is back to the true version of themselves. Superman and Batman are friends, but Batman worries what the world would do if humanity turned on them.
See, I disagree that you need anyone for a functional DC universe.
What you need is to tell a compelling story about a character that is told by people who understand the nuance of who they are and why they do what they do.
That's why WW worked when literally nothing else did and why Marvel is currently swimming in cash and adulation.
Like we belted out a good way to redo the frikkin DCU with a handful of D listers the other day using booster gold, and we're just a collection of silly geese on an internet forum.
See, I disagree that you need anyone for a functional DC universe.
What you need is to tell a compelling story about a character that is told by people who understand the nuance of who they are and why they do what they do.
That's why WW worked when literally nothing else did and why Marvel is currently swimming in cash and adulation.
Like we belted out a good way to redo the frikkin DCU with a handful of D listers the other day using booster gold, and we're just a collection of silly geese on an internet forum.
Eh, but a bit chunk of the market really likes Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman. Wonder Woman worked because it actually felt like the opening act of a wonderful movie universe full of thrilling characters. Wonder Woman is also a popular and well known character.
Sure, maybe you CAN land a Black Panther right out of the gate. But I say it's easier to get a great Booster Gold movie when you know what the world he is living in is like.
I think a Cyborg movie could do well. That character has a lot of potential, especially in a post black panther setting. I don't know who Cyborg's villains are and i'm not sure it even matters. Tell a good story and it "almost" doesn't matter what hero you use.
See, I disagree that you need anyone for a functional DC universe.
What you need is to tell a compelling story about a character that is told by people who understand the nuance of who they are and why they do what they do.
That's why WW worked when literally nothing else did and why Marvel is currently swimming in cash and adulation.
Like we belted out a good way to redo the frikkin DCU with a handful of D listers the other day using booster gold, and we're just a collection of silly geese on an internet forum.
Eh, but a bit chunk of the market really likes Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman. Wonder Woman worked because it actually felt like the opening act of a wonderful movie universe full of thrilling characters. Wonder Woman is also a popular and well known character.
Sure, maybe you CAN land a Black Panther right out of the gate. But I say it's easier to get a great Booster Gold movie when you know what the world he is living in is like.
Except the market has already spoken and shown that batman and superman don't have that much clout.
And frankly, DC needs to run the fuck away from batman in movies. Because he's the only mainline character that they developed successfully until WW everything has been sliding more and more into the aesthetic tones of batman which is just wrong since he's supposed to represent the dark edge of the justice league but he's instead become the central core of the entire DCU.
So no; we need to tell good stories with characters and not rely on churning out batman brand spam chunks.
Gaddez on
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That_GuyI don't wanna be that guyRegistered Userregular
the next film will just be 150 minutes in crime alley
When the pearls fall in the middle, it will flashback to the whole thing from Joe Chill's perspective, and then flashback again when he fires the gun so we don't forget what happened at the beginning of the movie.
The entire movie is flashbacks from different people's perspective. First it's from Burce's, than his parents, than Joe Chill. Than the movie gets weird and is from the perspective of the gun, than the strand of pearls, than the alleyway itself.
See, I disagree that you need anyone for a functional DC universe.
What you need is to tell a compelling story about a character that is told by people who understand the nuance of who they are and why they do what they do.
That's why WW worked when literally nothing else did and why Marvel is currently swimming in cash and adulation.
Like we belted out a good way to redo the frikkin DCU with a handful of D listers the other day using booster gold, and we're just a collection of silly geese on an internet forum.
Eh, but a bit chunk of the market really likes Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman. Wonder Woman worked because it actually felt like the opening act of a wonderful movie universe full of thrilling characters. Wonder Woman is also a popular and well known character.
Sure, maybe you CAN land a Black Panther right out of the gate. But I say it's easier to get a great Booster Gold movie when you know what the world he is living in is like.
Except the market has already spoken and shown that batman and superman don't have that much clout.
And frankly, DC needs to run the fuck away from batman in movies. Because he's the only mainline character that they developed successfully until WW everything has been sliding more and more into the aesthetic tones of batman which is just wrong since he's supposed to represent the dark edge of the justice league but he's instead become the central core of the entire DCU.
So no; we need to tell good stories with characters and not rely on churning out batman brand spam chunks.
I would argue that Superman and Batman didn't do well recently because they weren't very good movies. Not because people don't like Superman.
the next film will just be 150 minutes in crime alley
When the pearls fall in the middle, it will flashback to the whole thing from Joe Chill's perspective, and then flashback again when he fires the gun so we don't forget what happened at the beginning of the movie.
The entire movie is flashbacks from different people's perspective. First it's from Burce's, than his parents, than Joe Chill. Than the movie gets weird and is from the perspective of the gun, than the strand of pearls, than the alleyway itself.
It turns out Crime Alley is Danny the Street in a destructive punk phase.
Honestly, the only thing DC needs for its universe is this:
Audience trust.
Marvel released a string of movies that were entertaining and popular. Then, Marvel experimented with how far that trust would take them with a trippy movie set in outer space starring a raccoon and a tree set to 1970s music. The vast majority of even the big comic book fans didn't know who the hell these guys were. And then Guardians of the Galaxy became one of their biggest successes.
If WB/DC can get general audiences back on their side with a strong movie or three, they could do whoever they feel like. Ambush Bug could work. (Hell, with all the superhero movies going on I'd say an Ambush Bug movie would be appreciated.)
See, I disagree that you need anyone for a functional DC universe.
What you need is to tell a compelling story about a character that is told by people who understand the nuance of who they are and why they do what they do.
That's why WW worked when literally nothing else did and why Marvel is currently swimming in cash and adulation.
Like we belted out a good way to redo the frikkin DCU with a handful of D listers the other day using booster gold, and we're just a collection of silly geese on an internet forum.
Eh, but a bit chunk of the market really likes Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman. Wonder Woman worked because it actually felt like the opening act of a wonderful movie universe full of thrilling characters. Wonder Woman is also a popular and well known character.
Sure, maybe you CAN land a Black Panther right out of the gate. But I say it's easier to get a great Booster Gold movie when you know what the world he is living in is like.
Except the market has already spoken and shown that batman and superman don't have that much clout.
And frankly, DC needs to run the fuck away from batman in movies. Because he's the only mainline character that they developed successfully until WW everything has been sliding more and more into the aesthetic tones of batman which is just wrong since he's supposed to represent the dark edge of the justice league but he's instead become the central core of the entire DCU.
So no; we need to tell good stories with characters and not rely on churning out batman brand spam chunks.
I would argue that Superman and Batman didn't do well recently because they weren't very good movies. Not because people don't like Superman.
And I would argue that their is no inherent voodoo magic in any of the big 4 that were listed and that DC could have just as much success with Zatana or Atom Smasher or Red Tornado if a good director was given a good script and decent actors to work with.
If anything Batman is too good at carrying a film; that’s why studios keep making them and by and large, they keep being successful.
Super heroes is a well enough trod concept at this point that you don’t need to have an “established” character; you just need a charismatic lead and an entertaining script. Non-comic readers wouldn’t have been able to tell you much about iron man but they make one decent film and the rest is history
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
See, I disagree that you need anyone for a functional DC universe.
What you need is to tell a compelling story about a character that is told by people who understand the nuance of who they are and why they do what they do.
That's why WW worked when literally nothing else did and why Marvel is currently swimming in cash and adulation.
Like we belted out a good way to redo the frikkin DCU with a handful of D listers the other day using booster gold, and we're just a collection of silly geese on an internet forum.
Eh, but a bit chunk of the market really likes Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman. Wonder Woman worked because it actually felt like the opening act of a wonderful movie universe full of thrilling characters. Wonder Woman is also a popular and well known character.
Sure, maybe you CAN land a Black Panther right out of the gate. But I say it's easier to get a great Booster Gold movie when you know what the world he is living in is like.
Except the market has already spoken and shown that batman and superman don't have that much clout.
And frankly, DC needs to run the fuck away from batman in movies. Because he's the only mainline character that they developed successfully until WW everything has been sliding more and more into the aesthetic tones of batman which is just wrong since he's supposed to represent the dark edge of the justice league but he's instead become the central core of the entire DCU.
So no; we need to tell good stories with characters and not rely on churning out batman brand spam chunks.
I would argue that Superman and Batman didn't do well recently because they weren't very good movies. Not because people don't like Superman.
And I would argue that their is no inherent voodoo magic in any of the big 4 that were listed and that DC could have just as much success with Zatana or Atom Smasher or Red Tornado if a good director was given a good script and decent actors to work with.
I would argue it is impossible to make a compelling product about Red Tornado. And don't say Young Justice because the first time he became compelling in that is when he was acting WILDLY out of character.
the next film will just be 150 minutes in crime alley
When the pearls fall in the middle, it will flashback to the whole thing from Joe Chill's perspective, and then flashback again when he fires the gun so we don't forget what happened at the beginning of the movie.
The entire movie is flashbacks from different people's perspective. First it's from Burce's, than his parents, than Joe Chill. Than the movie gets weird and is from the perspective of the gun, than the strand of pearls, than the alleyway itself.
Alan Burnett actually pitched a very interesting story idea for Batman: The Animated Series. The episode would have been about the history of a gun, from when it was made, through different people who used it, to when Joe Chill used it to kill the Waynes, and finally ending with it getting melted down.
KingofMadCows on
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
I mean, Red Tornado is basically Vision, but with wind
I mean, Red Tornado is basically Vision, but with wind
Call me when Red Tornado, in his entire history of a character, gets anything NEAR Tom Taylor's Vision series. It's like how Harley Quinn is kind of like Deadpool except for how her comic sucks out loud and his has been outstanding for several runs at a time.
All the big character recognition controls is the initial interest. What people feel when they actually see the movie (and what those people then tell other people in person, online or in reviews) is down to the movie itself.
Most people hadn't heard of Iron Man until they saw the movie. You could tell he wasn't considered A-list because Marvel still had him, rather than selling him to another studio when they were desperate for cash.
In one way, an unknown character might be better off, as you'll get less people feeling that they're being done the 'wrong' way. We have a collective idea of how Superman or Batman 'should' behave, but Shazam isn't so well known, so his character in the movie - whatever it is or how much it changes from the comics - is more likely to be accepted.
All the big character recognition controls is the initial interest. What people feel when they actually see the movie (and what those people then tell other people in person, online or in reviews) is down to the movie itself.
Most people hadn't heard of Iron Man until they saw the movie. You could tell he wasn't considered A-list because Marvel still had him, rather than selling him to another studio when they were desperate for cash.
In one way, an unknown character might be better off, as you'll get less people feeling that they're being done the 'wrong' way. We have a collective idea of how Superman or Batman 'should' behave, but Shazam isn't so well known, so his character in the movie - whatever it is or how much it changes from the comics - is more likely to be accepted.
If Shazam starts arguing he shouldn't be beholden to help people and then kills the villain at the end, I will throw a chair through the theater's screen.
All the big character recognition controls is the initial interest. What people feel when they actually see the movie (and what those people then tell other people in person, online or in reviews) is down to the movie itself.
Most people hadn't heard of Iron Man until they saw the movie. You could tell he wasn't considered A-list because Marvel still had him, rather than selling him to another studio when they were desperate for cash.
In one way, an unknown character might be better off, as you'll get less people feeling that they're being done the 'wrong' way. We have a collective idea of how Superman or Batman 'should' behave, but Shazam isn't so well known, so his character in the movie - whatever it is or how much it changes from the comics - is more likely to be accepted.
If Shazam starts arguing he shouldn't be beholden to help people and then kills the villain at the end, I will throw a chair through the theater's screen.
We may not have to wait until the Man of Steel sequel now rumored to be in the works once again arrives for more of Cavill’s hero, though, as a recent report suggests he may appear in David Sandberg’s Shazam!. If he does appear in the film, the DC Extended Universe has the opportunity to make his appearance one of substance, and not just a gimmick cameo. The best way to ensure they get maximum effect from the Man of Tomorrow’s arrival is by doing something similar to what Marvel Studios did for Nick Fury: making Superman the chief recruiter and mentor for an expanded Justice League.
...but the question is, will he have that epic 'stache?
Posts
Also making characters not wildly diverge from their essential natures would be helpful.
I'd argue that they could have gotten 'the groundwork' in place trivially if they hadn't decided they also wanted to re-invent the characters. If Superman is Superman, then everyone already KNOWS Superman and what he's about. He is your way in to this strange world. Pop out a few animated movies and then off to the races you go.
Yeah, it'd be tough but it wouldn't have been impossible to have post-MoS Superman gradually learn from his experiences and become the person we know, or a non-offensive facsimile. Justice League spoilers
Start with the standard setup, the mum and dad with their kid, taking a shortcut through the alley, obviously leave some time for the eye-rolling in the audience as they brace themselves for the devastating trauma of watching Batman's origin again.
Then have Batman (or Superman. Or Flash. Wonder Woman, anyone) swoop in and save them at the last moment. What, you though this was a flashback and those were Bruce's parents? Those have been done to death, why would we show you that again?
And that kid's name?
Terry Guinness (winks at camera)
Burton's first Batman did this, right?
If they did it now, it would be a good indicator that they're willing to laugh at themselves.
edit: And if it was the Flash movie, they could take it even further by having excessive slow-motion as the gun goes off. Then Flash runs in and catches the bullets.
Blizzard: Pailryder#1101
GoG: https://www.gog.com/u/pailryder
Of course you do! Because I am awesome and way better at this then the WB execs. (Not a high bar to clear tbh, but there you go).
I would forget the fucking Flashpoint retcon they seem to be setting up and which everybody is expecting and instead lean into the NEW GODS movie as the source. Why? Mostly because Flashpoint sucked donkey balls in all its incarnations. You name it, Comics, Animation and Television, it was shit. Why should a movie be any better? Plus the basic gist of the Story was Barry Allen screws up. How can you fix thing by screwing up? (Dibs on this being the new thread title btw).
No what you have here is a reason to use Jack Kirby's finest contribution to DC. Why is Batman such a sourpus? Why is Superman such a angsty Objectivistloser? Why does the world look so drained of color they might as well shot it in B/W? Because the New Gods are involved! More precisely the dark gods of Apokolips. Its not Darkseid trying for the anti-life equation(got to save something for future movies), but the Dark Gods being dark gods.
You see in WW we established that the Greek gods are dead. It follows that the Norse, Irish, Aztec gods are also dead. Along with any minor pantheon that nobody cares about(don't as about the Hindus). In their place the New gods have arisen from mankind's mindscape until they became real. Only the Gods of Apokolips managed to shut the gods of New Genesis away from Earth. The reason the world is so dark? Because nobody can feel the light of New Genesis. All the good gods man has created from his mind are nowhere to be found.
UNTIL: Wonder Woman bumps into a strange guy named Scott Free aka Mr Miracle. Turns out she is a new god too. She is the last of the old and first of the new and Apokolips wants her dead in order to ensure their reign over humanity's is complete. As long as she exists, their control is under threat. For those that say "but WW isn't a new god" and "that isn't how it went in the comics", In the comics Starlord isn't the son of EGO and Hela isn't the daughter of Odin. Don't get stuck on continuity as long as the heart of it is kept. Wondy as a New God works for the story.
How and what happens on from there, I don't know, but I do know that the ending is the DCEU world suddenly being saturated by all the colors it lacked. Like going from 90% de- saturated footage into regular shots. In my dreams a retcon of terrible Pa Kent talking about letting kids die turning into him saying "Of course not son, but be careful showing your powers" happens. But that is a pipe dream of course.
Or have the kid punch the attacker through a wall, if you want an actual justification for Superman being a reluctant hero.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
When the pearls fall in the middle, it will flashback to the whole thing from Joe Chill's perspective, and then flashback again when he fires the gun so we don't forget what happened at the beginning of the movie.
Soft reboot it by pretending that Wonder Woman was the only thing that was released, and maybe Man of Steel.
Make a good movie of any character not currently being used and let Wonder Woman be Nick Fury in the stinger. Then do it again and again until you have a team.
Eh, the reason Flashpoint doesn't work is that it took away characters and things we loved and replaced them with rubbish grimdark hundreds of zippers versions of themselves. In this case, flashpoint would give us back what we want. The whole problem with DC is the lack of grounding and 'reference' characters to reel you in. The new gods are great, but they are kinda confusing and weird. For DC to work you need a functional
1) Batman
2) Superman
3) Wonder woman
4) Flash
And then you can build on that strong base to give you all the crazy incredibly powerful characters DC is known for.
Flashpoint. Boom. Old DC movieverse gone. Only flash and Diana are the 'same'. Everyone else is back to the true version of themselves. Superman and Batman are friends, but Batman worries what the world would do if humanity turned on them.
What you need is to tell a compelling story about a character that is told by people who understand the nuance of who they are and why they do what they do.
That's why WW worked when literally nothing else did and why Marvel is currently swimming in cash and adulation.
Like we belted out a good way to redo the frikkin DCU with a handful of D listers the other day using booster gold, and we're just a collection of silly geese on an internet forum.
Eh, but a bit chunk of the market really likes Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman. Wonder Woman worked because it actually felt like the opening act of a wonderful movie universe full of thrilling characters. Wonder Woman is also a popular and well known character.
Sure, maybe you CAN land a Black Panther right out of the gate. But I say it's easier to get a great Booster Gold movie when you know what the world he is living in is like.
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Except the market has already spoken and shown that batman and superman don't have that much clout.
And frankly, DC needs to run the fuck away from batman in movies. Because he's the only mainline character that they developed successfully until WW everything has been sliding more and more into the aesthetic tones of batman which is just wrong since he's supposed to represent the dark edge of the justice league but he's instead become the central core of the entire DCU.
So no; we need to tell good stories with characters and not rely on churning out batman brand spam chunks.
The entire movie is flashbacks from different people's perspective. First it's from Burce's, than his parents, than Joe Chill. Than the movie gets weird and is from the perspective of the gun, than the strand of pearls, than the alleyway itself.
I would argue that Superman and Batman didn't do well recently because they weren't very good movies. Not because people don't like Superman.
It turns out Crime Alley is Danny the Street in a destructive punk phase.
Audience trust.
Marvel released a string of movies that were entertaining and popular. Then, Marvel experimented with how far that trust would take them with a trippy movie set in outer space starring a raccoon and a tree set to 1970s music. The vast majority of even the big comic book fans didn't know who the hell these guys were. And then Guardians of the Galaxy became one of their biggest successes.
If WB/DC can get general audiences back on their side with a strong movie or three, they could do whoever they feel like. Ambush Bug could work. (Hell, with all the superhero movies going on I'd say an Ambush Bug movie would be appreciated.)
And I would argue that their is no inherent voodoo magic in any of the big 4 that were listed and that DC could have just as much success with Zatana or Atom Smasher or Red Tornado if a good director was given a good script and decent actors to work with.
Super heroes is a well enough trod concept at this point that you don’t need to have an “established” character; you just need a charismatic lead and an entertaining script. Non-comic readers wouldn’t have been able to tell you much about iron man but they make one decent film and the rest is history
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I would argue it is impossible to make a compelling product about Red Tornado. And don't say Young Justice because the first time he became compelling in that is when he was acting WILDLY out of character.
Alan Burnett actually pitched a very interesting story idea for Batman: The Animated Series. The episode would have been about the history of a gun, from when it was made, through different people who used it, to when Joe Chill used it to kill the Waynes, and finally ending with it getting melted down.
So yeah. As long as you do the characters right, it shouldn't matter who they are.
Call me when Red Tornado, in his entire history of a character, gets anything NEAR Tom Taylor's Vision series. It's like how Harley Quinn is kind of like Deadpool except for how her comic sucks out loud and his has been outstanding for several runs at a time.
Most people hadn't heard of Iron Man until they saw the movie. You could tell he wasn't considered A-list because Marvel still had him, rather than selling him to another studio when they were desperate for cash.
In one way, an unknown character might be better off, as you'll get less people feeling that they're being done the 'wrong' way. We have a collective idea of how Superman or Batman 'should' behave, but Shazam isn't so well known, so his character in the movie - whatever it is or how much it changes from the comics - is more likely to be accepted.
If Shazam starts arguing he shouldn't be beholden to help people and then kills the villain at the end, I will throw a chair through the theater's screen.
Superman is supposed to be in the movie...
https://www.cbr.com/shazam-dceu-superman-nick-fury/
...but the question is, will he have that epic 'stache?