In other news, I might buy a Hellfire? I'm looking at it, and at 60 tons, with a full 360XL and MASC it'll be able to run at well over 100kph, putting it between the Lanner and the Linebacker. The difference is that it will have about twice the pod space of either of those 'mechs, even accounting for the MASC.
Curious to see what the quirks will be, and since 2/3 of the standard pack 'mechs only allow up to a 290 engine, I'll likely wait for it to at least drop for MC (especially since I'm eyeballing the B or C as the one I want)
The Hellfire B is basically a Mad Dog with MASC, and for the cost of Endo Steel you actually gain a ton, and all that speed.
Throughout the entire history of BattleTech, there has always been mech factories running, hell, I’m pretty sure they still have JumpShip yards manufacturing more of them, and those actually got to the scarcity point of having Ares conventions against even remotely attacking them.
Yeah.
a. They're not irreplacable. It's just that they're very rare and very expensive. The ares conventions and then later on the informal warriors code forbade anyone from messing with Jumpships or fighting a war/sabotaging a mech factory. Generally such things were settled away from the critical infrastructure.
b. On a mech it's generally the fusion reactor that's the hardest to replace. Armor, internals, limbs, weapons etc can be repaired or replaced, though their quality is generally not as high as a factory part. There are numerous manufacturers of lasers, autocannons and missiles, though until their rediscovery centuries later (or even the return of the clans) some types of weapons would actually be irreplacable (pulse lasers for example).
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
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NipsHe/HimLuxuriating in existential crisis.Registered Userregular
In more "stuff Nips found on Twitter today", things take a turn in the HG lawsuit. It's mostly good? Minus the whole "court stuff takes forever to work out" part.
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
edited April 2018
Yeah I was wondering how the whole "HG doesn't actually own the rights to the things they are suing PGI/HBS for" would play out.
Part of me was a bit worried that that case would've come too late for PGI/HBS's case. Even though I know court stuff takes forever and a day.
edit- That last case HG had really knocked a lot of their teeth out of their bite. I doubt we'll be hearing the last of HG, but it does look like they'll be less of a infuriating buzz kill and more like crazy homeless guy at the station.
Axen on
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
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H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
Yeah I was wondering how the whole "HG doesn't actually own the rights to the things they are suing PGI/HBS for" would play out.
Part of me was a bit worried that that case would've come too late for PGI/HBS's case. Even though I know court stuff takes forever and a day.
edit- That last case HG had really knocked a lot of their teeth out of their bite. I doubt we'll be hearing the last of HG, but it does look like they'll be less of a infuriating buzz kill and more like crazy homeless guy at the station.
Well, it'll be a moot point in a couple years, IIRC. Their license comes up for renewal in 2020 or so and after having brought suit against the Japanese company they licensed it from I can't see them getting an extension.
Ah, man. I gotta go watch one of those Itano Circus compilations set to upbeat music on youtube again. Jets with legs!
Planes with legs are awesome and I will cut anyone who says otherwise.
just keep them out of BattleTech
They worked better if you combined BT with AeroTech, which I often did.
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H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
edited April 2018
LAMs as a hackneyed way for Battletech to try and cram in variable fighters were kinda lame. I love Macross, but they just always felt out of place in BT in my opinion.
But I think an ASF that had articulated bird legs with jumpjets that fold back flush against the tail in flight (y'know, like a bird) to provide additional thrust would be a better fit. Basically, Gerwalk (w/no arms) & plane forms only.
Yeah I was wondering how the whole "HG doesn't actually own the rights to the things they are suing PGI/HBS for" would play out.
Part of me was a bit worried that that case would've come too late for PGI/HBS's case. Even though I know court stuff takes forever and a day.
edit- That last case HG had really knocked a lot of their teeth out of their bite. I doubt we'll be hearing the last of HG, but it does look like they'll be less of a infuriating buzz kill and more like crazy homeless guy at the station.
Well, it'll be a moot point in a couple years, IIRC. Their license comes up for renewal in 2020 or so and after having brought suit against the Japanese company they licensed it from I can't see them getting an extension.
Maybe someone else will buy the rights to Robotech and do something with it. Some video games like Battlecry would be great.
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AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
Yeah I was wondering how the whole "HG doesn't actually own the rights to the things they are suing PGI/HBS for" would play out.
Part of me was a bit worried that that case would've come too late for PGI/HBS's case. Even though I know court stuff takes forever and a day.
edit- That last case HG had really knocked a lot of their teeth out of their bite. I doubt we'll be hearing the last of HG, but it does look like they'll be less of a infuriating buzz kill and more like crazy homeless guy at the station.
Well, it'll be a moot point in a couple years, IIRC. Their license comes up for renewal in 2020 or so and after having brought suit against the Japanese company they licensed it from I can't see them getting an extension.
Yeah pretty much. They will still on the rights to Robotech title forever and ever, but they can't produce any derivative works from the three anime that make up Robotech. Which means if they want to do anything Robotech related after 2021 they need to come up with original designs, animations, sounds, well everything basically.
edit- And I still rather like Robotech. What they did with it was rather impressive, especially for the time. I mean they needed X amount of episodes for syndication so they grab three different anime, but instead of just half assing it like most would they created an awesome multi-generational saga. Love it, just wish it wasn't in HG's IP dungeon.
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H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
edited April 2018
If I understand things correctly, HG is basically playing out their final hand as far as Macross goes. If PGI, HSB, etc can get through the next few years without getting burned, they should be free and clear.
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
At this point I suspect HG will try to wring as much out of it as they can before they lose any bit of leverage.
After that, I dunno. I actually wouldn't be too surprised if they sold the Robotech rights to someone else. Cause they won't be able to do jack squat with it. Even if they wanted to they don't have the money for it or the studio (animation/game/otherwise). May as well sell it for a fat stack.
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
The whole thing always seemed weird to me because like, is robotech that valuable a property? I realize we’re in this era of 80s/90s childhood memories being revisited but there has never seemed to be much of an appetite for it.
I mean, PGI was the first studio to make a BT game in how long?
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
The whole thing always seemed weird to me because like, is robotech that valuable a property? I realize we’re in this era of 80s/90s childhood memories being revisited but there has never seemed to be much of an appetite for it.
I mean, PGI was the first studio to make a BT game in how long?
New Macross stuff is still coming out.
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AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
edited April 2018
Yeah but Robotech isn't Macross.
I mean, technically yes, but also no. Like 1/3rd. Sort of.
edit- Like, the story of Robotech is the story of how aliens invade the Earth, we lose, go in to exile Battlestar style, then gather our strength and liberate the Earth several generations later.
edit- Oh it it is also a story about dynasties and follows several (I forget how many) families through the generations and their various political dealings/rivalries.
-edited for clarification
edit yet again- Y'know if you wanna know the crazy story behind how Robotech came to be and what it is just watch this :razz: https://youtu.be/CrIm5lYSdTQ
Axen on
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
The whole thing always seemed weird to me because like, is robotech that valuable a property? I realize we’re in this era of 80s/90s childhood memories being revisited but there has never seemed to be much of an appetite for it.
I mean, PGI was the first studio to make a BT game in how long?
Robotech was huge in Japan and continues to be fairly well-known there, though Harmony Gold has been a shitshow for decades now. Though it wasn't really "Robotech" over there, that was a Western thing because it was a Japanese-done mashup of three different series which had transforming stuff in them. What most of us would identify as "Robotech" (jet robots) here in the US would be "Macross" over there (which was one chunk of the original Robotech, and also has a bunch of its own spinoff stuff) plus a couple of other series.
The thing with Battletech is that, for a long-ass time, it's had its properties subject to two different sets of legal bullshit. One was Microsoft buying the rights, fucking things up, and then squatting on the license until PGI came around to fuck things up their own way. The other has been Harmony Gold trying to steal money via lawsuits any time there's even a hint of a mention of the once-Lost mechs, and their legal efforts have been built on decades-old problems of some of the old mech designs being ripped straight from Robotech/Macross.
The unpleasant thing is that even though Harmony Gold may finally have shit in their own pool so much that they're finally going to lose control completely, Mechwarrior stuff is now in the hands of PGI because Microsoft finally rented out the license to somebody. Unfortunately, that means that anybody wanting to make a Mechwarrior property will now have to deal with the total assholes running PGI (who have spent the last several years making the tremendously shitty MWO without being bothered too much about being known to be shitty).
So Mechwarrior, and I'm sure Battletech by extension, is going to remain in a screwy legal state for at least some years to come. I'm frankly amazed that the shitheads in charge of PGI allowed Harebrained Schemes to make a Battletech game and use their same redesigns, but I would also fully expect the PGI higher-ups to get a stick up their ass if Battletech does to well and nix any potential for a sequel, just because it makes their terrible efforts look bad on every front except the mech designs.
Mechwarrior/Battletech have had bizarre legal crap attached to them for decades now, which is really the root cause behind why it doesn't get used much. Who would want to try and make a game in that franchise if Harmony Gold is suddenly going to jump and start throwing money at blocking the project, so they can blackmail your company into giving up money over stuff you won't even have in the game? And that's assuming you could get the rights in the first place, which would be another annoying hurdle.
Honestly I don't expect PGI to kill any sequel to Battletech if it goes well. As long as HBS keeps to the type they are making I am sure they will be fine. I know they screwed up MWO, but they aren't that evil.
Plus they are banking on MechWarrior which will seem to work better for them in the end. Less worrying about balance and more on mech DLC.
Only a very small selection of people like the diehards on this forum are going to be interested in both. You are talking about Battletech universe fans which is a tiny, tiny niche.
The strategy game will mostly be played by strategy fans and HBS fans. The shooter will be played by shooters and Mechwarrior fans.
Us weird diehards will play both while bitching about hardpoint minutia.
Just randomly ran across this, watched 1 video and pre-ordered. Even if it's not great out of the gate, any company that wants to reboot mechcommander has my support.
Origin ID\ Steam ID: Warder45
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NipsHe/HimLuxuriating in existential crisis.Registered Userregular
According to the the Wikipedia article for MWO, Smith & Tinker (Weisman) bought the license rights from Microsoft, then PGI bought the license rights from S&T. I'm curious if PGI has an exclusive license to develop Mechwarrior-based video games? If so, good on them for locking that up (grumbling about PGI's incompetence aside).
And I'm pretty sure that Battletech, despite being under the same IP umbrella, would be an entirely different license. Or maybe a part of the original Microsoft license, and PGI only bought the rights to Mechwarrior, leaving anything else Battletech w.r.t. video games with S&T/Weisman? I'm no lawyer; who knows.
Anybody want to crowd fund the money to grab the MechAssault license? Pretty sure no one's thinking of touching that one. :P
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H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
edited April 2018
AFAIK, any kind of videogame/computergame based on the battletech license would fall under the rights Microsoft acquired back when they bought FASA Studio (the videogame company) during the shutdown of FASA (the tabletop game company). Every time it's come up it certainly sounded like those rights are still bundled together, but games in whole different genres really aren't any threat to PGI's interests in the property, it adds value to the brand as long as they are well made, and they had every reason to have confidence in HBS so it's only natural they've supported Battletech (PC game).
MS' ambivalence that held up any games between Mechassault 2 and PGI's first attempt at a MW5 (that eventually became MWO) was part of Microsoft's larger abandonement of a lot of older, mostly-PC oriented gaming properties they held (remember Age of Empires, Microsoft Flight Simulator, Freelancer, or back when they published Asheron's Call?), which always seemed strange to me. For "fun", go to the wikipedia article for their games division and scroll down to the "Former and defunct" category of their Software development studios, or scroll a little further down and look at all the game properties they own, and think about how many of those are still supported. FASA Studios in particular was shuttered after the Shadowrun class-based team FPS for the Xbox 360 flopped; there's a sad but great story somewhere among the Trenches "Tales from the Trenches" section of this site from one of the people sent into the office to clear out all the development materials after everyone had been laid off (they were apparently neck deep in development on another mechwarrior or mechassault which was cancelled).
The crazy thing is, back when Battletech was owned by Weisman's second (?) tabletop company Wizkids (remember Mechwarrior Dark Age, aka Battletech: Hero Clix edition?), the rights to the tabletop properties (and I believe this includes published fiction and the actual underlying IP itself) got acquired by collectible card maker Topps when they bought the company for its Hero Clix line and a screwy idea to make tabletop pro-sports games using the dial gimmick. So, everything CGL or Battlecorps has been doing with the property is under license from a trading card publisher. Yet unlike so many other companies, they seem to understand that the best use of these properties is to let people make something with it that can be sold. Imagine that?
I doubt many companies want the BattleTech license. Its background makes less sense than average for SF games, its tech tree was made for tabletop and not video games, it has a lot of the worst commercially published giant robot artwork ever made, and its fanbase, especially the part that plays the video games, is kind of toxic. I haven't seen Catalyst's new stuff, so maybe their new background and artwork is pretty good now. But it seems to me that anyone wanting to make a giant robot game could pretty easily make up something new that would attract nearly all of the same fans, while fitting better in a video game format.
If someone were able to buy the Star Wars license, they'd be getting a library of music and sound effects, a stable of highly popular vehicle and character designs, lightsabers, Jedi and enormously free rein to make up factions and superweapons to fit their game. The 40K license gets Space Marines, lots of enemies to fight, and the grimdark. BattleTech has virtually nothing that a developer couldn't create from scratch. You'd be buying, maybe, the Mad Cat and the Atlas, and then probably a hundred thousand sales at best from people who recognize anything else from the setting.
The one thing it might be good for is a predatory gatcha mobile game. BattleTech has a huge number of 'Mechs & vehicles, tons of named planets, and lots of factions, units, and characters. Someone could probably spin that into something mildly addictive.
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H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
I doubt many companies want the BattleTech license. Its background makes less sense than average for SF games, its tech tree was made for tabletop and not video games, it has a lot of the worst commercially published giant robot artwork ever made, and its fanbase, especially the part that plays the video games, is kind of toxic. I haven't seen Catalyst's new stuff, so maybe their new background and artwork is pretty good now. But it seems to me that anyone wanting to make a giant robot game could pretty easily make up something new that would attract nearly all of the same fans, while fitting better in a video game format.
If someone were able to buy the Star Wars license, they'd be getting a library of music and sound effects, a stable of highly popular vehicle and character designs, lightsabers, Jedi and enormously free rein to make up factions and superweapons to fit their game. The 40K license gets Space Marines, lots of enemies to fight, and the grimdark. BattleTech has virtually nothing that a developer couldn't create from scratch. You'd be buying, maybe, the Mad Cat and the Atlas, and then probably a hundred thousand sales at best from people who recognize anything else from the setting.
The one thing it might be good for is a predatory gatcha mobile game. BattleTech has a huge number of 'Mechs & vehicles, tons of named planets, and lots of factions, units, and characters. Someone could probably spin that into something mildly addictive.
You say that, but the Mechwarrior games have always made good money, MechAssault for the Xbox was also a fairly big success (over a million units sold in North America), and the new Battletech PC game is getting a lot of buzz. The real robot wargame or simulator subgenre is a small niche, but videogames based on the Battletech license have consistently been among the best performers outside Japan. Titanfall's the only real breakout success I can think of, though 2 doesn't seem to have sold nearly as well as 1 did, which I would argue is indicative of the general lack of interest in the genre; Titanfall's first game had a lot of hype with gamers in general because it was made by some of the key figures behind Medal of Honor and Call of Duty.
As for tabletop; compare Catalyst's ongoing efforts to the largely one-and-done project that was the Robotech tabletop game, or the obscurity of the Heavy Gear tabletop game and pen & paper RPG that was the basis for a briefly-lived Activision game series after they lost the Mechwarrior license.
I would say that the art's gotten a lot better under CGL:
I feel like the money couldn't have been that good if no development team has stuck with the Mechwarrior license for more than one numbered iteration. MechAssault got a sequel, but all the Mechwarrior games have had an expansion pack or two, usually a half-sequel standalone, and then dead. Realistically, I don't see why anyone would spend a lot of money to license the property to make a video game, and I don't see much evidence that there have been a lot of companies who wanted to but couldn't because of PGI. There are stories that Microsoft engaged in dickery over MPBT 3025 and MW5, though, so that was a thing.
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H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
edited April 2018
Activision made Mechwarrior, Mechwarrior 3050, MW2, & 2-Mercenaries (actually a full game merely built on the same engine as 2, not an expansion), right up until FASA clawed back the license for their own start-up videogame studio FASA Studios. We know it wasn't a decision on Activision's part because they immediately turned around and picked up the Heavy Gear license to try and keep the money rolling.
FASA Studios made MW3 & 4 with Microsoft as the publisher, as well as Mechcommander, & Mechassault 1 & 2. Like I said, they had a big flop with the Shadowrun game released during Xbox 360's launch, and Microsoft was closing down a lot of subsidiaries and ending second-party relationships (remember Lionhead or Bizarre Creations?) around that time in order to focus on the Halo-sized successes, so FASA Studios got axed.
PGI made MWO, and now they are making MW5. They seem to be doing alright business-wise despite these being pretty much their sole properties.
So, basically, the underpinning points of what you're saying are bogus?
Edit to add: I'll agree there probably hasn't been a ton of interest from larger companies in the Battletech/Mechwarrior properties since Microsoft, but I think that has more to do with the niche-ness of the genre than industry opinions on the property itself, as it's been the most enduringly successful IP in the field. Earth/Starsiege became Tribes, Heavy Gear was a disappointment, Command & Conquer has never revisited the time period of 3. You get one-offs like Iron Brigade, Brigador, or Scythe from time to time, but unless we count Titanfall (debateable when there's only two main series games, some mobile spin-offs, & the first was considerably more successful than any other entry), there's no other "big" lasting franchise to have emerged outside Japan that I'm aware of. The closest I can think of is the steampunk-fantasy miniatures wargame Warmachine and that's such a dramatic style and setting shift that I would argue that it doesn't really count as the same genre.
I mean, everything about Heavy Gear (tabletop, PC, and TV show) kinda disproves your point about the disposability of the Battletech IP because it tried to do what you're suggesting, and was never as big a success.
Activision published MW1 and MW2, but it was a completely different development team. MW1 was Dynamix, who went on to do Earthsiege/Starsiege. Activision eventually made MW2, but my feeling is that if MW1 had sold amazingly well, Activision would have kept the team on and immediately made the next game. MW3 was Hasbro/Microprose and Zipper Interactive, I don't think FASA Studio had anything to do with them.
Once you have the license it makes sense to branch out with it, so I'm not surprised at MechAssault or MechCommander being made alongside Mechwarrior. I just don't see the staying power, nor any impression that the games sold any better than adequately.
I'm not the person to talk to about Heavy Gear since anime's not really my thing. I feel those are powered armor games, not giant robot, and moreover it's powered armor without jetpacks. I played the second one and it never clicked with me. I think Earthsiege/Starsiege was more what I'm talking about. Dynamix/Sierra wanted to make a giant robot game but apparently they didn't feel like paying a license fee, so they made up a new universe, new bad guys and new robots. I don't know if it did as well as the MW games, but it kept them going for Battledrome, Earthsiege 1 & 2, Cyberstorm 1 & 2 and Starsiege, later branching out into Tribes, pretty much the only survivor after Vivendi took over Sierra. The same with all the stuff that comes out of Japan, like Armored Core, Front Mission, Steel Battalion, Chromehounds and whatever else. It doesn't seem to me that companies have to sit on their idea for a giant robot game until they can get the BattleTech license. It's not like they're making a first person shooter and need a huge brand to compete against a dozen other games.
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H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
Activision published MW1 and MW2, but it was a completely different development team. MW1 was Dynamix, who went on to do Earthsiege/Starsiege. Activision eventually made MW2, but my feeling is that if MW1 had sold amazingly well, Activision would have kept the team on and immediately made the next game. MW3 was Hasbro/Microprose and Zipper Interactive, I don't think FASA Studio had anything to do with them.
Once you have the license it makes sense to branch out with it, so I'm not surprised at MechAssault or MechCommander being made alongside Mechwarrior. I just don't see the staying power, nor any impression that the games sold any better than adequately.
I'm not the person to talk to about Heavy Gear since anime's not really my thing. I feel those are powered armor games, not giant robot, and moreover it's powered armor without jetpacks. I played the second one and it never clicked with me. I think Earthsiege/Starsiege was more what I'm talking about. Dynamix/Sierra wanted to make a giant robot game but apparently they didn't feel like paying a license fee, so they made up a new universe, new bad guys and new robots. I don't know if it did as well as the MW games, but it kept them going for Battledrome, Earthsiege 1 & 2, Cyberstorm 1 & 2 and Starsiege, later branching out into Tribes, pretty much the only survivor after Vivendi took over Sierra. The same with all the stuff that comes out of Japan, like Armored Core, Front Mission, Steel Battalion, Chromehounds and whatever else. It doesn't seem to me that companies have to sit on their idea for a giant robot game until they can get the BattleTech license. It's not like they're making a first person shooter and need a huge brand to compete against a dozen other games.
Activision was and is in the practice of bouncing titles around between different studios so I don't think too much can be read into that. They did make a port of MW1 for the SNES later on, so it can't have done poorly.
You're right about MW3; I forgot that FASA didn't immediately try to launch their own studio, but they did claw back the license against Activision's wishes.
Heavy Gear is not an anime. It was originally a tabletop game & P&P RPG by a Canadian company. The games and TV show where made by western companies. And it's mecha; the pilot is fully seated inside a cockpit in the chest & head.
The fact that Starsiege was fully subsumed by Tribes is pretty telling; it had a good run, but when the original companies were no longer free to make their own decisions all focus was shifted to nearly super-powered future infantry. Compare to Battletech which has changed hands numerous times, but someone's always been interested in keeping it going.
Japanese entries are a different thing altogether because their domestic market is disproportionately interested in the genre and more than capable of sustaining franchises all by themselves.
I guess I don't really understand what point you're trying to make? Of course companies don't need the rights to Battletech to make stuff, but your first two posts were talking about it as though it were practically a liability when it's been the most consistently produced and licensed western real robot property.
BRIAN BLESSEDMaybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHHRegistered Userregular
I'm banking on Microsoft bringing back MechAssault for some reason. Normally I think that'd be batshit and improbable but they did it for Killer Instinct, they could do the same for MechAssault
Plus, there were those rumored leaks in the development pipeline about bringing big Xbox titles back
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
I feel like the money couldn't have been that good if no development team has stuck with the Mechwarrior license for more than one numbered iteration. MechAssault got a sequel, but all the Mechwarrior games have had an expansion pack or two, usually a half-sequel standalone, and then dead. Realistically, I don't see why anyone would spend a lot of money to license the property to make a video game, and I don't see much evidence that there have been a lot of companies who wanted to but couldn't because of PGI. There are stories that Microsoft engaged in dickery over MPBT 3025 and MW5, though, so that was a thing.
The last Mechwarrior game we had came out years before anything and everything started trying to squeeze people for season passes with multiple DLC packs. Expansion packs back then were the exception rather than the rule, so having expansion packs at all suggests that the franchise had notable interest to it. Microsoft had the rights at the point in time that they decided they wanted to get into making consoles, so they chopped up the IP and put out Mechassault, which they did to several other IPs as well with varying degrees of quality (Crimson Skies and Shadowrun come to mind).
And yeah, the Mechwarrior/Battletech rights don't have the same pull as something like Star Wars, but there's always somebody trying to use the rights and they've just, historically, spent a lot of time wrapped up in overcomplicated legal shit or with somebody squatting on the IP.
It's not a property that is easy to work with, in terms of both the content or the legal complications.
I guess I don't really understand what point you're trying to make? Of course companies don't need the rights to Battletech to make stuff, but your first two posts were talking about it as though it were practically a liability when it's been the most consistently produced and licensed western real robot property.
I'm skeptical that there are companies wanting to make a BattleTech/Mechwarrior game but held back by licensing problems. I'm given to understand that Weisman has the license, and I think he'd be all for growing the brand. But I feel it's a problematic property that puts a lot of limitations on the in-game technology and storylines, and think it's more likely that most companies wanting to make a giant robot game would just invent something new to have a a free hand with the design. Like if you wanted to make a spaceship game, would you really want the Wing Commander license even if it was available for some reason? I don't feel there's any brand in that genre except Star Wars where the recognition bonus would outweigh the restrictions (EDIT: Oh yeah, probably Star Trek, too).
Battletech is going to be all innersphere right? no clans?
Yeppers! They did mention that the clans will be brought in later though. I would imagine another game like they have been doing with the Shadowrun series. Or are there multiple games in the Shadowrun series they made? I know I have two of them somewhere.
Battletech is going to be all innersphere right? no clans?
Yeppers! They did mention that the clans will be brought in later though. I would imagine another game like they have been doing with the Shadowrun series. Or are there multiple games in the Shadowrun series they made? I know I have two of them somewhere.
Returns , Dragonfall and Hong Kong are the available shadowrun games , good games I would recommend all three.
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AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
With Dragonfall being not just a good Shadowrun game, but one of the best RPGs I've had the pleasure of playing in recent years.
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
Battletech is going to be all innersphere right? no clans?
It's the 3025 Succession War era. So no clans, none of the "advanced" tech.
Ehhhhhh, maybe. We don't know the progression of the campaign, and it's entirely feasible (given what we saw in the Backer Beta game files) that some Star League era equipment could show up.
I'm ok with that. Hopefully this one will do well enough for sequal's with better tech and clans. I love clan mech's but if they come later, it'll allow the dev's to learn from this one and make it an even better game.
Origin ID\ Steam ID: Warder45
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
The best thing about HBS getting this is that, when the Clans show up in a sequel or something, they'll do it in a way that makes the game fun, interesting, and balanced rather than just breaking the game with Clan tech.
I fully trust them to actually work Clan rules and restrictions into the gameplay, on top of giving us a great story to go with it.
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Curious to see what the quirks will be, and since 2/3 of the standard pack 'mechs only allow up to a 290 engine, I'll likely wait for it to at least drop for MC (especially since I'm eyeballing the B or C as the one I want)
The Hellfire B is basically a Mad Dog with MASC, and for the cost of Endo Steel you actually gain a ton, and all that speed.
Yeah.
a. They're not irreplacable. It's just that they're very rare and very expensive. The ares conventions and then later on the informal warriors code forbade anyone from messing with Jumpships or fighting a war/sabotaging a mech factory. Generally such things were settled away from the critical infrastructure.
b. On a mech it's generally the fusion reactor that's the hardest to replace. Armor, internals, limbs, weapons etc can be repaired or replaced, though their quality is generally not as high as a factory part. There are numerous manufacturers of lasers, autocannons and missiles, though until their rediscovery centuries later (or even the return of the clans) some types of weapons would actually be irreplacable (pulse lasers for example).
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
http://www.sarna.net/news/more-news-on-harmony-gold-vs-battletech/
Part of me was a bit worried that that case would've come too late for PGI/HBS's case. Even though I know court stuff takes forever and a day.
edit- That last case HG had really knocked a lot of their teeth out of their bite. I doubt we'll be hearing the last of HG, but it does look like they'll be less of a infuriating buzz kill and more like crazy homeless guy at the station.
Well, it'll be a moot point in a couple years, IIRC. Their license comes up for renewal in 2020 or so and after having brought suit against the Japanese company they licensed it from I can't see them getting an extension.
LAMs are the best, don't make me cut you
They worked better if you combined BT with AeroTech, which I often did.
But I think an ASF that had articulated bird legs with jumpjets that fold back flush against the tail in flight (y'know, like a bird) to provide additional thrust would be a better fit. Basically, Gerwalk (w/no arms) & plane forms only.
Maybe someone else will buy the rights to Robotech and do something with it. Some video games like Battlecry would be great.
Yeah pretty much. They will still on the rights to Robotech title forever and ever, but they can't produce any derivative works from the three anime that make up Robotech. Which means if they want to do anything Robotech related after 2021 they need to come up with original designs, animations, sounds, well everything basically.
edit- And I still rather like Robotech. What they did with it was rather impressive, especially for the time. I mean they needed X amount of episodes for syndication so they grab three different anime, but instead of just half assing it like most would they created an awesome multi-generational saga. Love it, just wish it wasn't in HG's IP dungeon.
After that, I dunno. I actually wouldn't be too surprised if they sold the Robotech rights to someone else. Cause they won't be able to do jack squat with it. Even if they wanted to they don't have the money for it or the studio (animation/game/otherwise). May as well sell it for a fat stack.
I mean, PGI was the first studio to make a BT game in how long?
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
New Macross stuff is still coming out.
I mean, technically yes, but also no. Like 1/3rd. Sort of.
edit- Like, the story of Robotech is the story of how aliens invade the Earth, we lose, go in to exile Battlestar style, then gather our strength and liberate the Earth several generations later.
edit- Oh it it is also a story about dynasties and follows several (I forget how many) families through the generations and their various political dealings/rivalries.
-edited for clarification
edit yet again- Y'know if you wanna know the crazy story behind how Robotech came to be and what it is just watch this :razz:
Robotech was huge in Japan and continues to be fairly well-known there, though Harmony Gold has been a shitshow for decades now. Though it wasn't really "Robotech" over there, that was a Western thing because it was a Japanese-done mashup of three different series which had transforming stuff in them. What most of us would identify as "Robotech" (jet robots) here in the US would be "Macross" over there (which was one chunk of the original Robotech, and also has a bunch of its own spinoff stuff) plus a couple of other series.
The thing with Battletech is that, for a long-ass time, it's had its properties subject to two different sets of legal bullshit. One was Microsoft buying the rights, fucking things up, and then squatting on the license until PGI came around to fuck things up their own way. The other has been Harmony Gold trying to steal money via lawsuits any time there's even a hint of a mention of the once-Lost mechs, and their legal efforts have been built on decades-old problems of some of the old mech designs being ripped straight from Robotech/Macross.
The unpleasant thing is that even though Harmony Gold may finally have shit in their own pool so much that they're finally going to lose control completely, Mechwarrior stuff is now in the hands of PGI because Microsoft finally rented out the license to somebody. Unfortunately, that means that anybody wanting to make a Mechwarrior property will now have to deal with the total assholes running PGI (who have spent the last several years making the tremendously shitty MWO without being bothered too much about being known to be shitty).
So Mechwarrior, and I'm sure Battletech by extension, is going to remain in a screwy legal state for at least some years to come. I'm frankly amazed that the shitheads in charge of PGI allowed Harebrained Schemes to make a Battletech game and use their same redesigns, but I would also fully expect the PGI higher-ups to get a stick up their ass if Battletech does to well and nix any potential for a sequel, just because it makes their terrible efforts look bad on every front except the mech designs.
Mechwarrior/Battletech have had bizarre legal crap attached to them for decades now, which is really the root cause behind why it doesn't get used much. Who would want to try and make a game in that franchise if Harmony Gold is suddenly going to jump and start throwing money at blocking the project, so they can blackmail your company into giving up money over stuff you won't even have in the game? And that's assuming you could get the rights in the first place, which would be another annoying hurdle.
Plus they are banking on MechWarrior which will seem to work better for them in the end. Less worrying about balance and more on mech DLC.
Steam: betsuni7
Only a very small selection of people like the diehards on this forum are going to be interested in both. You are talking about Battletech universe fans which is a tiny, tiny niche.
The strategy game will mostly be played by strategy fans and HBS fans. The shooter will be played by shooters and Mechwarrior fans.
Us weird diehards will play both while bitching about hardpoint minutia.
And I'm pretty sure that Battletech, despite being under the same IP umbrella, would be an entirely different license. Or maybe a part of the original Microsoft license, and PGI only bought the rights to Mechwarrior, leaving anything else Battletech w.r.t. video games with S&T/Weisman? I'm no lawyer; who knows.
Anybody want to crowd fund the money to grab the MechAssault license? Pretty sure no one's thinking of touching that one. :P
MS' ambivalence that held up any games between Mechassault 2 and PGI's first attempt at a MW5 (that eventually became MWO) was part of Microsoft's larger abandonement of a lot of older, mostly-PC oriented gaming properties they held (remember Age of Empires, Microsoft Flight Simulator, Freelancer, or back when they published Asheron's Call?), which always seemed strange to me. For "fun", go to the wikipedia article for their games division and scroll down to the "Former and defunct" category of their Software development studios, or scroll a little further down and look at all the game properties they own, and think about how many of those are still supported. FASA Studios in particular was shuttered after the Shadowrun class-based team FPS for the Xbox 360 flopped; there's a sad but great story somewhere among the Trenches "Tales from the Trenches" section of this site from one of the people sent into the office to clear out all the development materials after everyone had been laid off (they were apparently neck deep in development on another mechwarrior or mechassault which was cancelled).
The crazy thing is, back when Battletech was owned by Weisman's second (?) tabletop company Wizkids (remember Mechwarrior Dark Age, aka Battletech: Hero Clix edition?), the rights to the tabletop properties (and I believe this includes published fiction and the actual underlying IP itself) got acquired by collectible card maker Topps when they bought the company for its Hero Clix line and a screwy idea to make tabletop pro-sports games using the dial gimmick. So, everything CGL or Battlecorps has been doing with the property is under license from a trading card publisher. Yet unlike so many other companies, they seem to understand that the best use of these properties is to let people make something with it that can be sold. Imagine that?
If someone were able to buy the Star Wars license, they'd be getting a library of music and sound effects, a stable of highly popular vehicle and character designs, lightsabers, Jedi and enormously free rein to make up factions and superweapons to fit their game. The 40K license gets Space Marines, lots of enemies to fight, and the grimdark. BattleTech has virtually nothing that a developer couldn't create from scratch. You'd be buying, maybe, the Mad Cat and the Atlas, and then probably a hundred thousand sales at best from people who recognize anything else from the setting.
The one thing it might be good for is a predatory gatcha mobile game. BattleTech has a huge number of 'Mechs & vehicles, tons of named planets, and lots of factions, units, and characters. Someone could probably spin that into something mildly addictive.
You say that, but the Mechwarrior games have always made good money, MechAssault for the Xbox was also a fairly big success (over a million units sold in North America), and the new Battletech PC game is getting a lot of buzz. The real robot wargame or simulator subgenre is a small niche, but videogames based on the Battletech license have consistently been among the best performers outside Japan. Titanfall's the only real breakout success I can think of, though 2 doesn't seem to have sold nearly as well as 1 did, which I would argue is indicative of the general lack of interest in the genre; Titanfall's first game had a lot of hype with gamers in general because it was made by some of the key figures behind Medal of Honor and Call of Duty.
As for tabletop; compare Catalyst's ongoing efforts to the largely one-and-done project that was the Robotech tabletop game, or the obscurity of the Heavy Gear tabletop game and pen & paper RPG that was the basis for a briefly-lived Activision game series after they lost the Mechwarrior license.
I would say that the art's gotten a lot better under CGL:
FASA Studios made MW3 & 4 with Microsoft as the publisher, as well as Mechcommander, & Mechassault 1 & 2. Like I said, they had a big flop with the Shadowrun game released during Xbox 360's launch, and Microsoft was closing down a lot of subsidiaries and ending second-party relationships (remember Lionhead or Bizarre Creations?) around that time in order to focus on the Halo-sized successes, so FASA Studios got axed.
PGI made MWO, and now they are making MW5. They seem to be doing alright business-wise despite these being pretty much their sole properties.
So, basically, the underpinning points of what you're saying are bogus?
Edit to add: I'll agree there probably hasn't been a ton of interest from larger companies in the Battletech/Mechwarrior properties since Microsoft, but I think that has more to do with the niche-ness of the genre than industry opinions on the property itself, as it's been the most enduringly successful IP in the field. Earth/Starsiege became Tribes, Heavy Gear was a disappointment, Command & Conquer has never revisited the time period of 3. You get one-offs like Iron Brigade, Brigador, or Scythe from time to time, but unless we count Titanfall (debateable when there's only two main series games, some mobile spin-offs, & the first was considerably more successful than any other entry), there's no other "big" lasting franchise to have emerged outside Japan that I'm aware of. The closest I can think of is the steampunk-fantasy miniatures wargame Warmachine and that's such a dramatic style and setting shift that I would argue that it doesn't really count as the same genre.
I mean, everything about Heavy Gear (tabletop, PC, and TV show) kinda disproves your point about the disposability of the Battletech IP because it tried to do what you're suggesting, and was never as big a success.
Once you have the license it makes sense to branch out with it, so I'm not surprised at MechAssault or MechCommander being made alongside Mechwarrior. I just don't see the staying power, nor any impression that the games sold any better than adequately.
I'm not the person to talk to about Heavy Gear since anime's not really my thing. I feel those are powered armor games, not giant robot, and moreover it's powered armor without jetpacks. I played the second one and it never clicked with me. I think Earthsiege/Starsiege was more what I'm talking about. Dynamix/Sierra wanted to make a giant robot game but apparently they didn't feel like paying a license fee, so they made up a new universe, new bad guys and new robots. I don't know if it did as well as the MW games, but it kept them going for Battledrome, Earthsiege 1 & 2, Cyberstorm 1 & 2 and Starsiege, later branching out into Tribes, pretty much the only survivor after Vivendi took over Sierra. The same with all the stuff that comes out of Japan, like Armored Core, Front Mission, Steel Battalion, Chromehounds and whatever else. It doesn't seem to me that companies have to sit on their idea for a giant robot game until they can get the BattleTech license. It's not like they're making a first person shooter and need a huge brand to compete against a dozen other games.
Activision was and is in the practice of bouncing titles around between different studios so I don't think too much can be read into that. They did make a port of MW1 for the SNES later on, so it can't have done poorly.
You're right about MW3; I forgot that FASA didn't immediately try to launch their own studio, but they did claw back the license against Activision's wishes.
Heavy Gear is not an anime. It was originally a tabletop game & P&P RPG by a Canadian company. The games and TV show where made by western companies. And it's mecha; the pilot is fully seated inside a cockpit in the chest & head.
The fact that Starsiege was fully subsumed by Tribes is pretty telling; it had a good run, but when the original companies were no longer free to make their own decisions all focus was shifted to nearly super-powered future infantry. Compare to Battletech which has changed hands numerous times, but someone's always been interested in keeping it going.
Japanese entries are a different thing altogether because their domestic market is disproportionately interested in the genre and more than capable of sustaining franchises all by themselves.
I guess I don't really understand what point you're trying to make? Of course companies don't need the rights to Battletech to make stuff, but your first two posts were talking about it as though it were practically a liability when it's been the most consistently produced and licensed western real robot property.
Plus, there were those rumored leaks in the development pipeline about bringing big Xbox titles back
The last Mechwarrior game we had came out years before anything and everything started trying to squeeze people for season passes with multiple DLC packs. Expansion packs back then were the exception rather than the rule, so having expansion packs at all suggests that the franchise had notable interest to it. Microsoft had the rights at the point in time that they decided they wanted to get into making consoles, so they chopped up the IP and put out Mechassault, which they did to several other IPs as well with varying degrees of quality (Crimson Skies and Shadowrun come to mind).
And yeah, the Mechwarrior/Battletech rights don't have the same pull as something like Star Wars, but there's always somebody trying to use the rights and they've just, historically, spent a lot of time wrapped up in overcomplicated legal shit or with somebody squatting on the IP.
It's not a property that is easy to work with, in terms of both the content or the legal complications.
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I'm skeptical that there are companies wanting to make a BattleTech/Mechwarrior game but held back by licensing problems. I'm given to understand that Weisman has the license, and I think he'd be all for growing the brand. But I feel it's a problematic property that puts a lot of limitations on the in-game technology and storylines, and think it's more likely that most companies wanting to make a giant robot game would just invent something new to have a a free hand with the design. Like if you wanted to make a spaceship game, would you really want the Wing Commander license even if it was available for some reason? I don't feel there's any brand in that genre except Star Wars where the recognition bonus would outweigh the restrictions (EDIT: Oh yeah, probably Star Trek, too).
Yeppers! They did mention that the clans will be brought in later though. I would imagine another game like they have been doing with the Shadowrun series. Or are there multiple games in the Shadowrun series they made? I know I have two of them somewhere.
Steam: betsuni7
Returns , Dragonfall and Hong Kong are the available shadowrun games , good games I would recommend all three.
It's the 3025 Succession War era. So no clans, none of the "advanced" tech.
Ehhhhhh, maybe. We don't know the progression of the campaign, and it's entirely feasible (given what we saw in the Backer Beta game files) that some Star League era equipment could show up.
I fully trust them to actually work Clan rules and restrictions into the gameplay, on top of giving us a great story to go with it.