I honestly don't terribly mind setup even without the organizers. Anyway:
1) Any 4 classes will be fine. It's more important that each player is able to enjoy the character they're playing than that the group be completely optimized. You're going to be plugging away with that character for a while, may as well enjoy them. I would say that if someone is going to play Spellweaver, make sure they understand the rules for card use, card loss, resting, and element generation thoroughly, as that is a pretty fiddly class that can be incredible if played with finesse but can also burn themselves out incredibly fast if they aren't careful.
2) Take all the M cards EXCEPT the 10 "Curse" cards. You are now done. Somewhat related: the player modifier decks are the identical decks of 20 cards labeled 1-4. The smaller decks of cards that are specific to each character don't get added until they are unlocked via perks.
To follow on, if your party is the indecisive type and will need recommendations, I would personally suggest Brute/Tinkerer/Scoundrel/Cragheart as a solid composition for a team of first timers. Nobody in that group is SO fragile that they can't take the odd hit or 2; you have a healthy mix of range, melee, AOE, healing, and crowd control; and nobody has to engage too hard with the more complicated mechanics.
I just got finished organizing the game and taking everything apart via the Broken Token Organizer. I don't see how anyone could play this game without it, man, cause holy shit - putting that together then organizing it all in the box was pure sorcery. It all just fit so NEATLY together.
We're using 3 Plano boxes. It adds, well, three extra boxes but we've got everything sorted and even have the individual monster action decks together with their associated standee(s) which is a huge time-saver.
I just got finished organizing the game and taking everything apart via the Broken Token Organizer. I don't see how anyone could play this game without it, man, cause holy shit - putting that together then organizing it all in the box was pure sorcery. It all just fit so NEATLY together.
A few questions.
1. Suggested starting classes for a four player game?
2. How the hell do I put together the monster attack deck? I have the base labeled cards that are all labeled "M", but after that I'm confused.
2. Shuffle it. Done!
Oh, you don't change it based on the monsters your fighting or whatever?
I just got finished organizing the game and taking everything apart via the Broken Token Organizer. I don't see how anyone could play this game without it, man, cause holy shit - putting that together then organizing it all in the box was pure sorcery. It all just fit so NEATLY together.
A few questions.
1. Suggested starting classes for a four player game?
2. How the hell do I put together the monster attack deck? I have the base labeled cards that are all labeled "M", but after that I'm confused.
2. Shuffle it. Done!
Oh, you don't change it based on the monsters your fighting or whatever?
Each monster type does have its own 8 card attack deck that determines what action they take each round but that is completely separate from the modifier deck.
It's the monster-specific cards that have stuff like "Attack +1; Heal 2 Self" and such that makes them different from each other. You perform the actions listed on that monster's turn card for all of that monster type (elites in numerical order, then normals in numerical order), keep in mind that if it doesn't list an action it does not make it. No Move? Then it doesn't move even though the monster type has a base move/attack/etc. If a monster is to make a base move then you'd see Move +0.
Which is a little silly when/if you gain the ability to inflict curses on them. If a standee (usually a boss) is immune to the Curse condition, that just means you can't make it shuffle a curse into the deck; if there's already one in there (because you cursed an enemy that was not immune), they are not immune to the effect should they flip it!
Likewise if a monster can Bless themselves, you never know where that blessing will pop up...
Yeah, I'm considering changing that to "ignore/discard curses when drawn." It's pointless if Lord King Boss is immune to curses if you can just throw it on Jeff the Goblin standing beside him.
Yeah, I'm considering changing that to "ignore/discard curses when drawn." It's pointless if Lord King Boss is immune to curses if you can just throw it on Jeff the Goblin standing beside him.
Nah, that's thematic as long as Jeff the bumbling sidekick is still on the map. And honestly even after he's dead.
*Lord King Boss swings his Scythe of Death
*Trips over Jeff's corpse
Did a sidequest today, which was hilarious. Scenario #66:
Clockwork Cove, with all the fun involving pressure plate doors. "Hey, we can do pretty significant damage to all these shielded enemies by just getting off the plates at the right time!" At which point a golem pulled our Brute off the plate and caught two of us in said doors. Whoops. Came down to the wire again when all those living spirits appeared, and we had to make a mad dash for the final plate.
Aw, hell. We cleared scenario 8 tonight but I just now realized that I cheated.
Turns out bosses can't be affected by mind control.
I still think we get there in the long run, but not with a boss eating a critical hit from one of the other enemies like we did.
Especially when "one of the other enemies" is the other boss, who hit for 10 of the first guy's 28hp. And then ate a retaliate for 3 because of course that's what they were doing that turn.
So we are getting our asses kicked in this game. We played the first scenario 3 times, have now failed the second twice and just not generally "getting it". My xp gain is laughable, at this rate it would take 4 or 5 successful missions to even consider leveling up. My looting is non exsistant because we barely scrape by with all out attacks as is. We have got to be playing wrong IMO but i cannot understand what wrong? My tablemates don't want to play on "easy" they want to play on normal, but i just don't see how this game is possible as is.
Does anyone know of a general, hey do this to make the game playable guide or anything?
So we are getting our asses kicked in this game. We played the first scenario 3 times, have now failed the second twice and just not generally "getting it". My xp gain is laughable, at this rate it would take 4 or 5 successful missions to even consider leveling up. My looting is non exsistant because we barely scrape by with all out attacks as is. We have got to be playing wrong IMO but i cannot understand what wrong? My tablemates don't want to play on "easy" they want to play on normal, but i just don't see how this game is possible as is.
Does anyone know of a general, hey do this to make the game playable guide or anything?
I have two regular groups of people playing this! One is a group of four from work that plays on a weeknight after work, and another plays on the weekend and is either 3 or 4 people depending on if my girlfriend wants to play.
It's been going well! We're a few scenarios in and the groups are starting to affect each other.
Steam: Spawnbroker
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FairchildRabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?"Registered Userregular
The game is really meant to be played one room at a time, with the party opening a door, dealing with the mobs in one room, then taking a moment to rest and recover before opening the next door and repeating the process. Are you moving too quickly ?
It should take 2-3 missions for a toon to level up. Some level faster than othes; the Brute's XP comes from using his core abilities, so he will grow quickly, whereas the Scoundrel needs to set up and launch extraordinary attacks to trigger hers.
So we are getting our asses kicked in this game. We played the first scenario 3 times, have now failed the second twice and just not generally "getting it". My xp gain is laughable, at this rate it would take 4 or 5 successful missions to even consider leveling up. My looting is non exsistant because we barely scrape by with all out attacks as is. We have got to be playing wrong IMO but i cannot understand what wrong? My tablemates don't want to play on "easy" they want to play on normal, but i just don't see how this game is possible as is.
Does anyone know of a general, hey do this to make the game playable guide or anything?
Some newbie tips that make the game easier:
You can always replace the top of the card with "Attack 2" or the bottom of the card with "Move 2". Use this to "get rid of" cards that have Loss abilities but you don't want to actually lose the card yet.
Don't use your Loss cards unless it's an emergency. Try to aim for using at most one Loss card per rest. Using Loss cards early makes you lose more turns than using them later.
Don't long rest unless you absolutely have to for some reason, like refreshing items, healing, or clearing poison. Use short rests as much as possible.
Don't rest at all unless you are forced to. Yes, some turns all you'll be able to do is "Attack 2, Move 2". That's better than losing a turn. You are on a pretty strict timer, remember.
Remember, while short resting, you can take a point of damage to keep the random card you lose and pick again! You have to keep the second result, though.
You can avoid all damage from a single attack by losing a card of your choice from your hand. You can also lose two cards from your discard instead, but my parties never do this.
Monsters only do what it says on their monster card in the order it says on the card, no more, no less. If there is no move on the card, they don't move. Same for attacking.
Managing doors seems like a huge part of the game. There is a big difference between walking through a door and letting a room full of monsters immediately pound on you for 10+ damage, vs opening a door and having the room full of monsters rush forward and not attack. This is especially true for monsters with ranged attacks.
IMO Scenario 2 is downright vicious and can be hard to win even if the enemies are cooperating with their actions. If you're having trouble with it, you may want to play a side scenario if you've unlocked any, or just do a "random dungeon" for some extra XP and gold.
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FairchildRabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?"Registered Userregular
Level 2 is also when a lot of toons unlock their good stuff, so if you're struggling to advance then I'd recommend Fry's course, above, of doing some side scenarios until you ding Level 2.
I will admit that this is taken directly from D&D and is not good game design.
Ok we have 3 players, I'm the Craghart, we have a scoundrel, and i think the mind theif? Not sure, he has a purple deck and has one card that gets all his lost cards back, and a summon?
Thanks for the inital tips, for the most part we are doing what you suggested. I wasn't aware of the point of damage to keep the card you randomaly selected from the short rest, will be doing more of that now.
For the most part we figured out the time limit of our chars in game, and it's very short.
The main problem we have is time limits. I just don't see how to dish out enough damage to kill everything fast enough. Especially in that second scenerio. Everything has to die, everything has HUGE hp limits, plus summoning.
The other problem we had was understanding how to grind. With only 2 scenerio's to choose from it seemed like pulling teeth to grind and level. We haven't unlocked any others. I'll look at the rules and see if i can't figure out how to do a random setup, but i don't recall going over it.
As far as leveling in 2-3 scenerios, how the hell are you getting that much XP? The first level is 45 XP requirement. That's 15 a scenerio. I've only got 16 after all the playing i've done. Perhaps we aren't doing something right there? The bonus xp from the chart is only once, and only if you complete the scenerio right? Mobs don't grant XP. So you have abilities...and that's it? Right?
Your goal, even as a brute or cragheart, is to avoid damage rather than soaking it. Yes you will have to take some hits, and yes you can take a FEW, but generally speaking your goal should be to keep it to a minimum. Try to burst a few enemies down while keeping the others stunned/disarmed/immobilized. With melee enemies it's pretty common that you can position yourselves to avoid attacks as well. Take advantage of that.
Relatedly, don't feel like the brute and cragheart should be the ONLY ones taking attacks. It is often worth it to take a small attack even as a mindthief or spellweaver. Running around with 1 or 2 hp is fine: having your buddy lose cards to avoid damage in the first room isn't.
You are on a timer it's true, but don't be afraid to play defensively, hold a chokepoint (or create one if you have a cragheart), or stay back for a turn or 2, especially right when you open a new room. Wasting a turn while you regroup is better than taking a bunch of unnecessary damage. It might feel like you're losing a turn but think of it more as spending a turn to be in a more advantageous position for the REST of the fight.
Also: try to find some time where you can just sit down and read over the rulebook. There's a lot there so it's quite possible you've missed something important.
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FairchildRabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?"Registered Userregular
You can always replay scenarios, so if you don't have anything else open to you, grinding away at Scenario 1 will work, as unappetizing as that sounds.
FairchildRabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?"Registered Userregular
It's your game, don't feel bashful about unilaterally bumping yourselves up to Level 2 because you're tired of banging your heads against the same mooks as Level 1.
Re: losing 2 from discard to ignore damage, this is something I've done. Usually when I get ambushed the turn before I was planning to rest and thus have no cards in hand. (Also I play one of the squishiest classes.)
It is certainly possible to win both of the intro scenarios at level 1, both of my groups did it. We actually had an easier time with scenario 2 than scenario 1, but that was partially due to the boss being nice to us.
If you're really losing the first two scenarios that much, I have to assume you are misplaying a rule somehow or you have the level of the scenario set too high. Average the levels of the party and divide by 2, then round up. If everyone is level 1, that means you're playing a level 1 scenario.
There are so many rules to combat in this game that it is extremely possible that you're making it harder on yourself unknowingly. We've played it 4 or 5 times now and we keep finding random rules that we have been playing wrong.
Yes, the only ways to get xp are succeeding on scenarios (a lvl 1 scenario will give 6 xp) and using abilities. Most loss cards will give you 2 xp; most classes have at least a couple of ways to generate xp without losses though they might require particular positioning (scoundrel) or element use. Some classes have a hard time gaining xp but 6-12 is pretty normal. Add in the 6 for winning and you're well on your way to leveling up in 3 scenarios. I can't imagine getting enough xp to level in 2 scenarios without purposely stalling to spend more cards but it's possible my group just plays through quickly.
Is it possible you are misreading either the scenario setup (accidentally setting up the enemies for 4p) or the monster info cards (giving normal elite stats or something)?
That sounds about right on turns, except the spellweaver...He's done WAY before anyone else. And usually sits out alot more than anyone. Hmmm i may have to look at how he's playing that....
I don't think we're messing up the scenario setup, i know we're only putting the mobs for 3p on there based on the marks on the map. And I know we're doing the monster cards right, left for normal, right for elite, set all to the scenerio level of 1.
6-12 xp per seems like a ton, but maybe that's where we're screwing up. I've played 5 games, and only have 16, so i'm getting like 3 or 4 per. I don't have the Craghart in from of me, but i don't see a way to generate that much xp. Maybe i need to focus on xp abilities more. My friend said he was at 24 or something so maybe the Craghart is just is harder to get xp on...
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AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
That sounds about right on turns, except the spellweaver...He's done WAY before anyone else. And usually sits out alot more than anyone. Hmmm i may have to look at how he's playing that....
I don't think we're messing up the scenario setup, i know we're only putting the mobs for 3p on there based on the marks on the map. And I know we're doing the monster cards right, left for normal, right for elite, set all to the scenerio level of 1.
6-12 xp per seems like a ton, but maybe that's where we're screwing up. I've played 5 games, and only have 16, so i'm getting like 3 or 4 per. I don't have the Craghart in from of me, but i don't see a way to generate that much xp. Maybe i need to focus on xp abilities more. My friend said he was at 24 or something so maybe the Craghart is just is harder to get xp on...
Spellweaver is the most difficult of the starting 6, no question, due to the ability to recover lost cards and the tiny deck making the card system work very differently.
Cragheart did, IME, lag a little on personal XP generation. Backup Ammunition and the ongoing retaliate are your best sources.
It could be that you guys haven't learned the lesson that the first couple of missions is trying to teach yet. This game is about gaming the 'AI' of the monsters and doing everything you can to not get hit. The tanks in this game can't tank, they can soak maybe a hit or two before they're in trouble. If anyone in the party is being hit by 3+ enemies in a single turn, they are fucked. Crowd control and focus fire is the name of the game. Run just out of range of the enemies. Abuse the fact that the guards won't move this turn and use ranged attacks on them, etc. etc.
Look up how the monsters take turns and choose their targets and make sure you're playing that correctly, as well. That's also a source of confusion for new players that can make the game harder.
Sorry if any of this is stuff you know or are already doing, I'm just trying to help and am thinking of common pain points that our groups had trouble with.
Thank you for that, yea lots of fiddly bits on this game, which is why i came here to confirm what we are doing, cause we are likely doing it wrong....
We should probably focus on damage avoidance more thats true.
That sounds about right on turns, except the spellweaver...He's done WAY before anyone else. And usually sits out alot more than anyone. Hmmm i may have to look at how he's playing that....
I don't think we're messing up the scenario setup, i know we're only putting the mobs for 3p on there based on the marks on the map. And I know we're doing the monster cards right, left for normal, right for elite, set all to the scenerio level of 1.
6-12 xp per seems like a ton, but maybe that's where we're screwing up. I've played 5 games, and only have 16, so i'm getting like 3 or 4 per. I don't have the Craghart in from of me, but i don't see a way to generate that much xp. Maybe i need to focus on xp abilities more. My friend said he was at 24 or something so maybe the Craghart is just is harder to get xp on...
Spellweaver is the most difficult of the starting 6, no question, due to the ability to recover lost cards and the tiny deck making the card system work very differently.
Cragheart did, IME, lag a little on personal XP generation. Backup Ammunition and the ongoing retaliate are your best sources.
A ton of Cragheart's XP is tied to using earth element, from what my friend is telling me. That can be hard to set up and he is definitely lagging behind the rest of us.
That sounds about right on turns, except the spellweaver...He's done WAY before anyone else. And usually sits out alot more than anyone. Hmmm i may have to look at how he's playing that....
I don't think we're messing up the scenario setup, i know we're only putting the mobs for 3p on there based on the marks on the map. And I know we're doing the monster cards right, left for normal, right for elite, set all to the scenerio level of 1.
6-12 xp per seems like a ton, but maybe that's where we're screwing up. I've played 5 games, and only have 16, so i'm getting like 3 or 4 per. I don't have the Craghart in from of me, but i don't see a way to generate that much xp. Maybe i need to focus on xp abilities more. My friend said he was at 24 or something so maybe the Craghart is just is harder to get xp on...
Spellweaver is the most difficult of the starting 6, no question, due to the ability to recover lost cards and the tiny deck making the card system work very differently.
Cragheart did, IME, lag a little on personal XP generation. Backup Ammunition and the ongoing retaliate are your best sources.
A ton of Cragheart's XP is tied to using earth element, from what my friend is telling me. That can be hard to set up and he is definitely lagging behind the rest of us.
Even if you're doing a pretty good job setting Earth up - and it is hard without help, because the tendency as you level is to replace the cards that aren't lost in the process of providing Earth with ones that are lost, don't have anything to do with it, or that want to use it up - you're better off just firing up Backup Ammunition (which might've been cut to 1 every other activation, instead of 1 every activation, in v2?) and Opposing Strike's auras at the soonest reasonable opportunity and running them out. Earthen Clod, Dirt Tornado, and sometimes Crater are your best bets on consumption, although the Version 2 wording on the top of Unstable Upheaval takes it from a terrible option to a pretty good one and makes it reasonable. The bottom half is actually a great setup on a door-rushing turn.
I really liked Cragheart while I was playing it, don't get me wrong, but that it takes 'til level 4 to get an ability, and then 8 to get another non-Loss attack that makes Earth is crazy. Especially now that I've seen some of the later boxes which are way more streamlined about making and using elements. Being able to hit pretty hard, unconditionally, and super-hard with your obstacle-related buffs out the gate doesn't 100% make up for that.
E: To be clear, this is more a "this is a really weird set of design choices to make in an introductory character, or really any character at all," comment, not a "Cragheart is bad," comment. Cragheart is probably in the discussion for second-best core class. Brute's the head-and-shoulders best due to sheer simplicity and effectiveness, imo.
Yeah, I enjoyed my Crag, but he was lagging in XP; hit level 3 just as two others were hitting 4, and the Spellweaver closing in on 5. But he could do a bit of everything, and keep the party propped up after they'd spent themselves on their silly attacks. Our Spellweaver was nice enough to take a generate-Earth perk, and it seemed to come up a lot.
How is that even possible? We tried to run past all the people in the third room, but the undead all died in like 1-2 rounds and we all died. I have no idea how we would approach this one differently.
I think now that we know its coming we could approach it more conservatively and maybe eke it out, but this scenario is ROUGH.
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AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
How is that even possible? We tried to run past all the people in the third room, but the undead all died in like 1-2 rounds and we all died. I have no idea how we would approach this one differently.
I think now that we know its coming we could approach it more conservatively and maybe eke it out, but this scenario is ROUGH.
We played 12 instead, which is the mirror image of that one. That wasn't too bad due to Cragheart making some shortcuts and a plan of putting him / Brute on point and leaving the guards, Tinker, and Mindthief (plus rats) to do cleanup.
There are a couple for-real tanks once you have levels, and Brute is one of them. It helped considerably to just pocket him and throw rocks, with the NPCs to absorb hits.
I don't remember - do your allies just Move +0 Attack +0 all the time in that? The undead would be significantly worse than the City Guards were and the Guards harder, if so.
Interesting thoughts on the craghart!! I may just change then. Considering the difficulties we've been having it seems prudent! You say brute is simple and streamlined? ok i can get behind that!
How is that even possible? We tried to run past all the people in the third room, but the undead all died in like 1-2 rounds and we all died. I have no idea how we would approach this one differently.
I think now that we know its coming we could approach it more conservatively and maybe eke it out, but this scenario is ROUGH.
We played 12 instead, which is the mirror image of that one. That wasn't too bad due to Cragheart making some shortcuts and a plan of putting him / Brute on point and leaving the guards, Tinker, and Mindthief (plus rats) to do cleanup.
There are a couple for-real tanks once you have levels, and Brute is one of them. It helped considerably to just pocket him and throw rocks, with the NPCs to absorb hits.
I don't remember - do your allies just Move +0 Attack +0 all the time in that? The undead would be significantly worse than the City Guards were and the Guards harder, if so.
We played it that the allies act like normal monsters and still draw Attack cards from the monster modifier deck. We still had a ridiculously tough time because all the elite guards have Shield 2, which means we were doing almost no damage to them for every attack.
We got our first retirement last night after completing Scenario 21. So far the 2 boss fights we've done have been a bit underwhelming.
We didn't manage to get the chest. We had some questions about the altar as the receiver of damage. Cragheart just wanted to make it explode, but I argued that RAW all that would mean is that we lost our ability to damage the Prime Demon. The Prime demon itself only managed to get one hit off, because it moved so slowly and we were chasing the altar.
The Cragheart of the group had to kill one of every type of Demon for this lifetime goal. He unlocked Triangles
So, he went from broken Savaas to too cool to study at home Savaas
Then we went and completed Scenario 14, with the brand new Triangles in tow.
Man, that class seems like a lot of work. The guy running it didn't really have a lot of time to become familiar with the cards, but there are a lot of things he needs elements for. My lifetime goal would also have unlocked Triangles, so I'll be moving on to another of the base classes. I'm thinking Brute, but I've got a few scenarios before I need to worry about it.
But upshot, we've unlocked "The Power of Enhancement", which the Tinkerer seemed very pysched about, I think it is for his lifetime goal. Given that I am close to retirement, and we're two ticks away from Prosperity 3, I'm not sure I'm going to enhance any cards right away, although Strengthen/Bless looks like a good plan. Or maybe adding curse to my Flurry of Blades, since that would add 3 curses to the Monster Deck if I can get three targets.
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1) Any 4 classes will be fine. It's more important that each player is able to enjoy the character they're playing than that the group be completely optimized. You're going to be plugging away with that character for a while, may as well enjoy them. I would say that if someone is going to play Spellweaver, make sure they understand the rules for card use, card loss, resting, and element generation thoroughly, as that is a pretty fiddly class that can be incredible if played with finesse but can also burn themselves out incredibly fast if they aren't careful.
2) Take all the M cards EXCEPT the 10 "Curse" cards. You are now done. Somewhat related: the player modifier decks are the identical decks of 20 cards labeled 1-4. The smaller decks of cards that are specific to each character don't get added until they are unlocked via perks.
We're using 3 Plano boxes. It adds, well, three extra boxes but we've got everything sorted and even have the individual monster action decks together with their associated standee(s) which is a huge time-saver.
Oh, you don't change it based on the monsters your fighting or whatever?
Each monster type does have its own 8 card attack deck that determines what action they take each round but that is completely separate from the modifier deck.
It's the monster-specific cards that have stuff like "Attack +1; Heal 2 Self" and such that makes them different from each other. You perform the actions listed on that monster's turn card for all of that monster type (elites in numerical order, then normals in numerical order), keep in mind that if it doesn't list an action it does not make it. No Move? Then it doesn't move even though the monster type has a base move/attack/etc. If a monster is to make a base move then you'd see Move +0.
Which is a little silly when/if you gain the ability to inflict curses on them. If a standee (usually a boss) is immune to the Curse condition, that just means you can't make it shuffle a curse into the deck; if there's already one in there (because you cursed an enemy that was not immune), they are not immune to the effect should they flip it!
Likewise if a monster can Bless themselves, you never know where that blessing will pop up...
Nah, that's thematic as long as Jeff the bumbling sidekick is still on the map. And honestly even after he's dead.
*Lord King Boss swings his Scythe of Death
*Trips over Jeff's corpse
"JEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEFF!"
Turns out bosses can't be affected by mind control.
I still think we get there in the long run, but not with a boss eating a critical hit from one of the other enemies like we did.
Does anyone know of a general, hey do this to make the game playable guide or anything?
What classes are you playing as?
It's been going well! We're a few scenarios in and the groups are starting to affect each other.
It should take 2-3 missions for a toon to level up. Some level faster than othes; the Brute's XP comes from using his core abilities, so he will grow quickly, whereas the Scoundrel needs to set up and launch extraordinary attacks to trigger hers.
Some newbie tips that make the game easier:
IMO Scenario 2 is downright vicious and can be hard to win even if the enemies are cooperating with their actions. If you're having trouble with it, you may want to play a side scenario if you've unlocked any, or just do a "random dungeon" for some extra XP and gold.
I will admit that this is taken directly from D&D and is not good game design.
Thanks for the inital tips, for the most part we are doing what you suggested. I wasn't aware of the point of damage to keep the card you randomaly selected from the short rest, will be doing more of that now.
For the most part we figured out the time limit of our chars in game, and it's very short.
The main problem we have is time limits. I just don't see how to dish out enough damage to kill everything fast enough. Especially in that second scenerio. Everything has to die, everything has HUGE hp limits, plus summoning.
The other problem we had was understanding how to grind. With only 2 scenerio's to choose from it seemed like pulling teeth to grind and level. We haven't unlocked any others. I'll look at the rules and see if i can't figure out how to do a random setup, but i don't recall going over it.
As far as leveling in 2-3 scenerios, how the hell are you getting that much XP? The first level is 45 XP requirement. That's 15 a scenerio. I've only got 16 after all the playing i've done. Perhaps we aren't doing something right there? The bonus xp from the chart is only once, and only if you complete the scenerio right? Mobs don't grant XP. So you have abilities...and that's it? Right?
Thanks again for the tips!
Your goal, even as a brute or cragheart, is to avoid damage rather than soaking it. Yes you will have to take some hits, and yes you can take a FEW, but generally speaking your goal should be to keep it to a minimum. Try to burst a few enemies down while keeping the others stunned/disarmed/immobilized. With melee enemies it's pretty common that you can position yourselves to avoid attacks as well. Take advantage of that.
Relatedly, don't feel like the brute and cragheart should be the ONLY ones taking attacks. It is often worth it to take a small attack even as a mindthief or spellweaver. Running around with 1 or 2 hp is fine: having your buddy lose cards to avoid damage in the first room isn't.
You are on a timer it's true, but don't be afraid to play defensively, hold a chokepoint (or create one if you have a cragheart), or stay back for a turn or 2, especially right when you open a new room. Wasting a turn while you regroup is better than taking a bunch of unnecessary damage. It might feel like you're losing a turn but think of it more as spending a turn to be in a more advantageous position for the REST of the fight.
Also: try to find some time where you can just sit down and read over the rulebook. There's a lot there so it's quite possible you've missed something important.
If you're really losing the first two scenarios that much, I have to assume you are misplaying a rule somehow or you have the level of the scenario set too high. Average the levels of the party and divide by 2, then round up. If everyone is level 1, that means you're playing a level 1 scenario.
There are so many rules to combat in this game that it is extremely possible that you're making it harder on yourself unknowingly. We've played it 4 or 5 times now and we keep finding random rules that we have been playing wrong.
It's not super short. Played optimally and NEVER using your loss cards, here are the amount of turns for characters from 9 to 12 cards:
That sucks though, people like using loss cards because they're powerful. If you assume you use one loss card per rest cycle, you can get:
Is it possible you are misreading either the scenario setup (accidentally setting up the enemies for 4p) or the monster info cards (giving normal elite stats or something)?
I don't think we're messing up the scenario setup, i know we're only putting the mobs for 3p on there based on the marks on the map. And I know we're doing the monster cards right, left for normal, right for elite, set all to the scenerio level of 1.
6-12 xp per seems like a ton, but maybe that's where we're screwing up. I've played 5 games, and only have 16, so i'm getting like 3 or 4 per. I don't have the Craghart in from of me, but i don't see a way to generate that much xp. Maybe i need to focus on xp abilities more. My friend said he was at 24 or something so maybe the Craghart is just is harder to get xp on...
Spellweaver is the most difficult of the starting 6, no question, due to the ability to recover lost cards and the tiny deck making the card system work very differently.
Cragheart did, IME, lag a little on personal XP generation. Backup Ammunition and the ongoing retaliate are your best sources.
Look up how the monsters take turns and choose their targets and make sure you're playing that correctly, as well. That's also a source of confusion for new players that can make the game harder.
Sorry if any of this is stuff you know or are already doing, I'm just trying to help and am thinking of common pain points that our groups had trouble with.
We should probably focus on damage avoidance more thats true.
A ton of Cragheart's XP is tied to using earth element, from what my friend is telling me. That can be hard to set up and he is definitely lagging behind the rest of us.
Even if you're doing a pretty good job setting Earth up - and it is hard without help, because the tendency as you level is to replace the cards that aren't lost in the process of providing Earth with ones that are lost, don't have anything to do with it, or that want to use it up - you're better off just firing up Backup Ammunition (which might've been cut to 1 every other activation, instead of 1 every activation, in v2?) and Opposing Strike's auras at the soonest reasonable opportunity and running them out. Earthen Clod, Dirt Tornado, and sometimes Crater are your best bets on consumption, although the Version 2 wording on the top of Unstable Upheaval takes it from a terrible option to a pretty good one and makes it reasonable. The bottom half is actually a great setup on a door-rushing turn.
I really liked Cragheart while I was playing it, don't get me wrong, but that it takes 'til level 4 to get an ability, and then 8 to get another non-Loss attack that makes Earth is crazy. Especially now that I've seen some of the later boxes which are way more streamlined about making and using elements. Being able to hit pretty hard, unconditionally, and super-hard with your obstacle-related buffs out the gate doesn't 100% make up for that.
E: To be clear, this is more a "this is a really weird set of design choices to make in an introductory character, or really any character at all," comment, not a "Cragheart is bad," comment. Cragheart is probably in the discussion for second-best core class. Brute's the head-and-shoulders best due to sheer simplicity and effectiveness, imo.
How is that even possible? We tried to run past all the people in the third room, but the undead all died in like 1-2 rounds and we all died. I have no idea how we would approach this one differently.
I think now that we know its coming we could approach it more conservatively and maybe eke it out, but this scenario is ROUGH.
There are a couple for-real tanks once you have levels, and Brute is one of them. It helped considerably to just pocket him and throw rocks, with the NPCs to absorb hits.
I don't remember - do your allies just Move +0 Attack +0 all the time in that? The undead would be significantly worse than the City Guards were and the Guards harder, if so.
The Cragheart of the group had to kill one of every type of Demon for this lifetime goal. He unlocked Triangles
Then we went and completed Scenario 14, with the brand new Triangles in tow.
But upshot, we've unlocked "The Power of Enhancement", which the Tinkerer seemed very pysched about, I think it is for his lifetime goal. Given that I am close to retirement, and we're two ticks away from Prosperity 3, I'm not sure I'm going to enhance any cards right away, although Strengthen/Bless looks like a good plan. Or maybe adding curse to my Flurry of Blades, since that would add 3 curses to the Monster Deck if I can get three targets.