As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/
Options
So I guess I need to look for a new IT job.
VoodooV
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I think I've finally gotten to the breaking point with my job of almost 20 years (State Gov't IT Infrastructure Analyst) We've been undergoing a consolidation where all state gov't it agencies are being put into one organization and it's not going well and I'm of the opinion that management is incompetent. A few years back, I was in the process of getting promoted to senior analyst, but that got cancelled because of this consolidation and I'm pretty sure I'm being retaliated against because, in the past, I've criticized the organization that I've now been consolidated into for bungling oh so many things and generally demonstrating they don't know how to do anything. It seems to me they want loyalty/sycophants over actually getting things done.
I have no idea how to job hunt anymore. I just dug up my resume file and as you can imagine, it needs massive updating. (or is administrating about 500 Windows 95 PCs still relevant on a modern IT resume?
)
Can anyone point me to good resume advice for an IT job? Do I need to go gussied up in a suit and tie again? One ad I saw talked about how they wore flip flips to work, which hey cool, I don't actually have flip flops, but I suspect I still can't show up for the interview in jeans and a dirty tshirt.
I'd like to get into security field. My main field of expertise is support/administration of Windows desktops and servers. I got my A+ cert a long time ago, it was supposed to be a lifetime cert, but I'm not sure if it's even valid anymore. I'm good with building images, group policy, and configuration management but I'm not an MCSE. I have some old certs from the Novell days, but again, I'm guessing I shouldn't be putting stuff like that on a modern resume.
About 7 years ago, I started doing security work, participating in IRS computer security audits since our agencies hold federal data, so I'm pretty familiar with those requirements and remediating any findings from said audits. I took a CISSP class, but admittedly, I saw how much it cost to get certified and I turned away from that. I also knew that it wouldn't help me in my current job.
I really loved my job, but under this new management, I think they're trying to turn me into an ass kisser instead of an IT analyst and I don't think I can take it anymore.
Thanks in advance.
I have no idea how to job hunt anymore. I just dug up my resume file and as you can imagine, it needs massive updating. (or is administrating about 500 Windows 95 PCs still relevant on a modern IT resume?
)Can anyone point me to good resume advice for an IT job? Do I need to go gussied up in a suit and tie again? One ad I saw talked about how they wore flip flips to work, which hey cool, I don't actually have flip flops, but I suspect I still can't show up for the interview in jeans and a dirty tshirt.
I'd like to get into security field. My main field of expertise is support/administration of Windows desktops and servers. I got my A+ cert a long time ago, it was supposed to be a lifetime cert, but I'm not sure if it's even valid anymore. I'm good with building images, group policy, and configuration management but I'm not an MCSE. I have some old certs from the Novell days, but again, I'm guessing I shouldn't be putting stuff like that on a modern resume.
About 7 years ago, I started doing security work, participating in IRS computer security audits since our agencies hold federal data, so I'm pretty familiar with those requirements and remediating any findings from said audits. I took a CISSP class, but admittedly, I saw how much it cost to get certified and I turned away from that. I also knew that it wouldn't help me in my current job.
I really loved my job, but under this new management, I think they're trying to turn me into an ass kisser instead of an IT analyst and I don't think I can take it anymore.
Thanks in advance.
0
Posts
If you've been doing sysadmin for 20 years you're in a pretty great spot for getting a sysadmin job. Did your gov't IT job get you security clearance? If so that's a huge leg up in the commercial sector.
I've also found that having a Linkedin profile, and filling out the job section with basically a copy of my resume, gets me a lot of job leads, so look into that. Also fill out the skills section.
Glassdoor and Linkedin where my two prime sources of job searching when I was still looking. Dice is ok but I never really got anything I liked from them. Monster was a waste of time.
Unfortunately I can't give you advice on what to wear for an interview because there's a whole different standard for ladies and men.
if you're applying at a larger, more traditional company -- go with the stereotypical jacket and tie. your potential colleagues may not care, but you never know who you'll be introduced to/who else will be brought into the interview.
if it's a smaller, start-up type environment there's a little more flexibility. I personally wouldn't go below business casual unless you're absolutely sure it's as super relaxed environment -- i.e. if they're touting the flip flops in the job posting.
good luck!
My buddy went from one state agency to another and it was night/day difference.
Security+ is a bit easier/bit cheaper and might be a good one to pickup instead of the CISSP.
There is a possibility of going to another agency, but it would have to be an agency that doesn't directly report to the Gov since all of those agencies that report directly to the Gov are the ones being consolidated. A former manager that I really liked moved to one of those agencies and he seems pretty happy. I already asked him half-jokingly about a month ago if he had any openings, but he didn't
I never really considered Federal though, so I'll have to look into that. I've never worked IT in private sector so that would be uncharted territory for me. I always assumed that because I'm so used to the constant regulations we have to follow in gov't that working in private sector would be a mind blowing experience, but yeah, it may just be time for that kind of change.
One of the things I liked about my job was the variety. One day I might be doing front line help desk, another I might be in the trenches, under desks fixing a network cable, and another day I might be helping write policies or dataflow diagrams of our infrastructure to make sure it's secure, or re-vamping our imaging system for Win10 and UEFI partitions, or designing a new application deployment in SCCM. I never knew what I would be doing. This new regime wants me basically to pick one thing and do it all the time. I told them I wanted to work more in security, but they pretty much ignored me and stuck me in Help Desk, which yeah, I still like doing, but doing only that is...unsatisfying. It wouldn't be so bad doing just Help Desk, but there is also a clear pecking order and Help Desk is at the bottom, and after 20 years, I don't feel like I should be at the bottom.
It might even be a good thing that I didn't get sucked into their security group. My previous supervisor got promoted to Security Officer for the entire state a few years back. The problem he has is that he has no authority. He can propose security projects, but no one is under him so managers are just free to ignore him. The security group I mentioned isn't even under him, just adjacent so based on my conversations with two people that did get put in that group is that it's the same thing. They argue that we should be doing X, Y, and Z to improve security, but it just goes unheeded. Pretty sure that if/when a breach occurs, they'd probably get all the blame though.
Enlist in Star Citizen! Citizenship must be earned!
As for promotion, yeah, I was pissed when my promotion got cancelled because of the consolidation, but no one really works for state gov't because of the lucrative pay. Even if the promotion went through, it would have been a tiny increase in pay and nothing life changing.
The main thing is that it feels like the fall of rome around here. We used to get things done relatively quickly. People would ask me about working for gov't, joking that it was all bureaucracy and I would defend it and say it was nothing like that. Sure we didn't have a large budget, but I felt like we kept pace and were proactive. Now, I *would* say all the negative memes about gov't having their heads up their behind apply under the new management. Things that I would do on my own in a day or two now get shifted into a bizarro ticketing system where the work gets spread around to multiple departments, taking 3 times longer or more and they still don't quite get it done right. All the while management pats themselves on the back, proclaiming how efficient everything is and I'm having an Inigo Montoya moment about words not meaning what they think they mean.
Enlist in Star Citizen! Citizenship must be earned!
Yes.
A good general rule of thumb is to dress one step nicer than the job's dress code. If the dress code is super casual with jeans and flip-flops, wear slacks and a button-down shirt. If the dress code is business casual, show up in a suit.
If unsure, err on the side of a suit.
Start by building a generic resume. There are lots and lots of resume templates online, and if you're completely lost, hire somebody.
I do recommend using a resume template with a "skills" or "qualification" section where you can just list a bunch of keywords relevant to your skills (in addition to the typical job history and education sections).
When you find a job where you want to apply, make a new copy of your resume and tailor it to that company. Don't lie, but emphasize the specific skills and experience relevant to that particular job posting.
I'd also start working on some certs. If you want to do security, starting with the entry-level CompTIA+ Network+ and Security+ isn't a bad plan.
There's also some good advice in this recent thread in H/A: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/217896/it-careers-security-or-developer/p1
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
It's been a while, but when I did my A+ cert. They reimbursed me for the cost of the test voucher, assuming I passed of course, but nothing for the training materials. Speaking of which, I did check and my A+ is still valid. This has spurred a renewed interest in Network+ Security+ I tried out CompTIA's free trial of their CertMaster and I was pleased that I got most of the answers right on their Security+ sample questions right out of the gate. I'm just not looking forward to the expense and the time investment outside of work. I'm usually very good at testing, I just tend to be fairly anal about such things and over-prepare. I don't try to simply pass them, I try to ace them
I'll have to take a look though and find out if the state even offers reimbursement anymore, that was long before we had our budget issues. We used to get a week of instructor led training every couple years or so, but that's long gone.
After much gnashing of teeth and procrastinating, I did get my resume updated, I used a template on ResumeGenius. Is it still the rule that you should keep your resume within one page? There were a few other things I wanted to add in but it would have pushed it to multiple pages. I figured they weren't super important and I could just mention them in any potential interviews. With some help from a friend, I got a cover letter written too. I called up the office of that Security Analyst position I was interested in and asked for the name of the hiring manager so that I didn't have to use "To whom it may concern" so hopefully that's a nice touch. I found this job on indeed.com so I got my resume and cover letter uploaded and applied for the job a few hours ago, so we'll see what happens next week. It looks like the job got reposted. I discovered the position and the site said the posting was a week and a half old. I checked again shortly after it was two weeks old and the posting then said it was only 2 days old, but everything else was the same, so I'm interpreting that to mean that either no one applied, or no one qualified applied.
Upon the advice of previously mentioned friend, When asked for a desired salary, since I work for the state, I added 10K to what I currently make as an "opening bid" that will get whittled down. At this point, I don't think I'd give a damn if they offered me the same salary I have now.
Work continues to be a goose-storm. On top of deploying 40 new laptops, building a new server to hold Federal data, and we need to update a major application, just got notified that a 2nd major application will be updated, right during our busy season too where our users are really under the gun to get stuff done and thus, they do not like major changes during this time. And they apparently want me to take lead on rolling this out. This is on top of our average help desk daily "putting out of the fires" work. We used to be a 5 person staff supporting 400+ users. 2 of those people got moved over to other departments because of the consolidation, 1 person retired and we weren't allowed to refill the position. So now it's just me and one other guy. He's a nice guy, but I think he's just waiting for retirement too, so he isn't very proactive on anything and I have to hold his hand on a lot of stuff. Because our new supervisor from this consolidation is in a completely different agency, we never get any support from her and it's just us two handling all support requests. We did get a new guy assigned to us to help us out, but he's only there part time, and I'm still training him on stuff specific to our agency. He's competent, but just the time sink in getting him up to speed on everything...on top of everything else we have to do. It's just getting nuts.
I was talking with one the guys who got into that Security and Compliance group that I was trying to get into, but got denied. He's one of two people....for the entire state doing security and compliance. They're swamped. He told me he even name-dropped me to his supervisor, trying to get them to bring me in just to ease the workload....denied of course. I think I'm to the point where even if something crazy happened and they offered me a position there, I think I'd still look for employment elsewhere. I think they've demonstrated that they're just not good people to work for and I need to get out.
Enlist in Star Citizen! Citizenship must be earned!
Sate/Fed employees tend to get paid less for lots of reasons, but a big one is the retirement package. So, I'd add a bit more to be talked down. Or look to see what the position averages on glassdoor in your area. Also don't expect raises in that job so make sure the salary you negotiate now is acceptable for the next 5 years.
But mostly try not to say the first number if at all possible. If it comes up, say something like you'd need time to consider it (as it'd be an adjustment going from State to not State work).
On the topic of resume length, it's been my personal opinion that anyone with 10-15+ years experience in the relevant industry can get away with 1.5-2 pages for a resume. However, the only time though it should ever go to a third is for the types that need to cite all of their published articles.
Enlist in Star Citizen! Citizenship must be earned!
But what really seemed to go well is that they would ask me how I would describe the most productive work environment, and how I would describe a good supervisor/manager. After I gave my descriptions, the HR person would talk about their work culture and it felt like she was basically repeating everything I just described so hopefully that won me some points.
They did tell me that it would probably be 2-3 weeks before they made a decision. I'm also assuming that if they do like me that there will be a 2nd interview. So I just have to hold on and wait some more.
Overall it's just a relief to get through the first time jitters.
Enlist in Star Citizen! Citizenship must be earned!
Enlist in Star Citizen! Citizenship must be earned!
Resolving myself to find a new job has definitely pulled me out of my funk a bit. Even if I don't get this particular job, just knowing that I should eventually find something that will allow me to escape my current situation in the near future has brightened my mood considerably. Think I was going through some form of mild depression for a bit there.
Enlist in Star Citizen! Citizenship must be earned!
They wear business casual put on a sports coat
people walking around in tshirt? I dress hirt and khakis will do
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
Trying to just relax and chill since the interview is tomorrow. but I also want to keep reviewing their job description so I can stay focused on their objectives, and at the same time, remind myself of everything I wrote on my resume (damn thing is still freshly updated after all) and just remind myself of how I can connect the dots from what I can to do their job requirements and just overall remind myself of things I've accomplished at my current job. During the phone interview, one of their questions was about what I thought of when it came to security best practices and recited as many SANS 20 critical controls I could remember off the top of my head (I think I only remembered 5-6 on the spot) and they seemed kinda impressed with that so I was going to review that. They also mentioned that CIS had a security controls document too so I thought it might be worthwhile to take a look at that.
Enlist in Star Citizen! Citizenship must be earned!
and yeah @schuss, that sort of thing did come up. They phrased a couple questions in a vague way so I asked for clarification a couple times so that worked out well. And yeah, it definitely felt like more of a personality test than a skills assessment.
They said they still had about a week of more interviews, so I wouldn't know until after then. Sounded like there could be a 3rd interview where I'd meet more of the team and their higher ups. (My attorney friend has told me many times of interviews he's been on where they've had multiple rounds, but this is the first time I've been involved in a interviewing process with multiple rounds. They also mentioned there were two positions open, but made it sound like there would be more later on...so I'd like to believe my chances are good.
I have twice the length of experience they were looking for.
I am experienced with security concepts and controls.
I seem to fit with their culture.
I think the only real black mark against me is my lack of experience with switches/firewalls. So I'm hoping my chances are above average.
Enlist in Star Citizen! Citizenship must be earned!
I got asked at my last job interview about more questions, and internally just wanted to say "Will I be paid for my work? Good, that's exactly what I'm looking for." I'm not here to learn about the intimate workings of this job, because if you don't want to hire me, I don't want to waste effort learning shit I won't care about in a week.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
So here's a fun little wrinkle. My, technically, former supervisor just told me that the agency I work for is posting a project manager position specifically for cyber security matters. I know nothing about being a project manager, but I'm familiar with our agency's security issues and requirements. So...I'm going to apply for it. I mean why not? I think I'm still done with the state, so I'm still going to look for work elsewhere, but hey, If I get it, It will get me back to my agency and out of the central agency that consolidated me because that's turning more and more into a CF, it's a pay increase, and even if I get it and still get the first job I applied for, hey, it's still a feather in my cap.
And if I don't get it...no skin off my back and I still continue my job search elsewhere.
Enlist in Star Citizen! Citizenship must be earned!
This also means don't stop applying for jobs just because you have what you think is a solid lead. Just keep on applying.
The first job I applied for still hasn't contacted me. The job is *still* posted. So on one hand, wtf? But on the other hand, hey they haven't contacted me to tell me I didn't get it. So there's that. I assume they had something happened that caused them to postpone everything. A few weeks ago I sent them a short email asking for an update (and again thanking them for the interview). They haven't responded.
Still haven't heard back from anyone regarding the internal project manager position. Not really holding my breath since I don't have any project manager experience. Just figured it is worth a shot.
Enlist in Star Citizen! Citizenship must be earned!
the sheer lunacy of it all. I can tell the supervisors think it's just as stupid as I do, but no one pushes back.
Enlist in Star Citizen! Citizenship must be earned!
In principle it works great when you get individuals doing it within their own group/dept but when you try to swoop in everywhere to "find opportunities" it's just a fucking shitshow.
I am also "Yellow Belt" certified which consisted of 6 hours of web video training and a test. It was not bad but I'm not some magic business wizard now and the company isn't magically open to change so.....
Edit: Sorry, not just ranting. It's an actual thing that LEAN is being pushed in so many organizations now that you cannot escape it. Get used to it and talk the talk.
What’s worse is that nothing has really changed. Just terminology. It’s not meetings, it’s huddles. It’s not coworkers, its teammates. They keep talking about eliminating waste, but it’s all just show. I discovered that our new ticketing system does a bunch of extra logins behind the scenes. So if you goof up your password, you can get locked out in one failed attempt instead of the usual 3. That’s wasteful. Nothing changes. It gets blamed on our increased security requirements.
They whine about wasteful spending, but they dump all their money into this, creating a lot of high paid positions facilitating the six sigma way and they’re just cheerleaders trying to tell people who know nothing about their job..how to do their job.
Enlist in Star Citizen! Citizenship must be earned!
dude, that actually did happen recently with one of our printers.
Which is ironic, because before all of this LSS nonsense happened, with only a few, exceptions, almost all of our printers were moved to fewer, more central locations specifically to reduce the number of printers we owned because someone said it was wasteful to buy so many printers because they are expensive to buy and maintain. Now we seem to be undoing that, buying more printers and putting them closer to groups of users, because "wah walking a few extra steps is hard!" Not to mention the push to be more paperless, which seems to have failed here.
Enlist in Star Citizen! Citizenship must be earned!
And even you do think in LSS's terms of eliminating waste and increasing efficiency which most people already do naturally if you care even the tiniest about how well you do your job, guess what, the terms "waste" and "efficiency" are totally subjective in the eyes of the beholder. Then you're just back to pre-existing situation where you've got a worker with an idea (maybe it's good, maybe it's bad, it's irrelevant) and a supervisor/manager who accepts or rejects that idea, again maybe for good reasons, maybe for bad reasons. LSS doesn't magically make it more likely for objectively good ideas to be accepted and objectively bad ideas rejected. As we just described above. The supposed "savings" and self-congratulations of moving a printer closer to people, is outweighed by the fact there was a reason the printer was in it's more centralized location in the first place and the cost savings of not having to buy expensive printers and spend maintenance on said printers and re-evaluating on whether or not you need to print at all far outweighs any extra time wasted walking a few extra steps. In addition, you don't need LSS to decide to move printers, you can make that decision all on your own. It's perceived value, it's not actual value.
The irony about LSS in it's supposed quest to eliminate waste is that it is, itself, a waste. People and businesses have been making changes and improvements on their own for all of history. Don't need a certification for that.
Enlist in Star Citizen! Citizenship must be earned!
There's a bunch of practices that can feel excessive, but often those are geared to spots where people in the same group don't even talk.
At the end of the day, it's just a methodology and it can't fix serious structural, organizational or cultural issues. I'm sorry you have to deal with cargo cult LSS
Enlist in Star Citizen! Citizenship must be earned!
When I got done with the interview, I checked my phone and I missed a call, it was my current workplace calling me for an interview for that new internal security project manager position I applied for, which I'm less enthusiastic about since I want to get out of there regardless, but hey, an interview is an interview. We're playing phone tag right now (taking a couple weeks off right now so I'm chilling at home)
Enlist in Star Citizen! Citizenship must be earned!
I've applied for another security analyst position a couple weeks ago, but no word there yet. Applied for two more jobs last weekend, but these two are not security positions but I feel I'm at the point where I'm just ready to get out of my current job bad enough that I'm willing to accept jobs of lesser responsibility as long as the pay is comparable. One of them already got ahold of me for a phone interview
Enlist in Star Citizen! Citizenship must be earned!