Wondering if I should drop Medusa, he's got tactic's 9 but I grabbed the Piloting skill for extra evasion. It's just not paying off even close to bulwark here in the late game.
Eh, I use Evasion much more than I use Bulwark. The number of rounds that I stood still and just fired weapons are ones I can count on my fingers. Positioning and movement means a LOT more to me than soaking damage, especially since you can't rotate your 'Mechs if you stand still (and if you want to rotate out a 'Mech while having another 'Mech become the new tank, you have to retreat with the rest of your 'Mechs, which isn't always the best tactical option).
Really, my entire frontline* of pilots is Master Tactician + one other skill, and their specialization really molds what I have them do during combat. Sure, the Evasion pip is only -5%, but it's -5% that you can use if you move all the time, as opposed to Bulwark, which only works if you stand still, and only from the front/side arcs.
I seem to play a much different game than the general consensus on the Internet, though, and I feel like I've had a really easy time of it.
* Note: I have 9 Pilots, and I did spread out their specializations just to have them available, except for Juggernaut, because Juggernaut is horrible.
I have a mix of both. I have a Grasshopper with a +1 Hit Defense Gyro, and maxed evasion, jumping all over the place frustrating attackers. Then I usually have my Highlander Bulwarked raining death down. When I do move my Highlander, I usually jumpjet and Vigilance.
I had a Black Knight I was relying on Bulwark for, but I've since swapped it out for a Battlemaster, and I'm thinking focusing more on Evasion for it might work better. Especially since it has so much short range weaponry.
For my missile boat, I've gravitated towards Breach Shot and that's honestly all I care about. Sensor sweep is wasted because then it's not shooting. Evasion is blah because it rarely moves. Bulwark is equally blah because it's rarely exposed to fire. Oh well.
My philosophy for Breaching Shot is that you overcome 50% damage reduction by launching twice as many missiles. :-P So most of my 'Mechs have 2 LRM-20s or 2 LRM-15s. One rack is no longer sufficient in the late game to knock over a 'Mech anyway, so you might as well dump the kitchen sink on them and Alpha Strike. You can't Precision Strike with Multi-Shot anyway, and I'm not lacking for targets to Precision Strike. A target that is Braced just means I shoot at his friend over there that isn't Braced for a turn, while maneuvering out of range for the Braced target to hit me next turn.
To put it another way, the most damage you can ever bring to bear against a single target with Breaching Shot is 120, from an AC-20+++. Most of my Alphas are in the 300+ range now, which means that a Precision Alpha Strike will do more damage. Sure, at the cost of more heat and ammo, but I'm not hurting in either for all of the engagements.
Even when they were using medium mechs my pilots with bulwark often find a good position and don’t move for entire engagements. They are the anchor for the flankers and the backstabbers. Very heat efficient too as they just volley over and over.
Evasion is nice for jumpy boys but walking boys can just stand and deliver.
Wondering if I should drop Medusa, he's got tactic's 9 but I grabbed the Piloting skill for extra evasion. It's just not paying off even close to bulwark here in the late game.
Eh, I use Evasion much more than I use Bulwark. The number of rounds that I stood still and just fired weapons are ones I can count on my fingers. Positioning and movement means a LOT more to me than soaking damage, especially since you can't rotate your 'Mechs if you stand still (and if you want to rotate out a 'Mech while having another 'Mech become the new tank, you have to retreat with the rest of your 'Mechs, which isn't always the best tactical option).
Really, my entire frontline* of pilots is Master Tactician + one other skill, and their specialization really molds what I have them do during combat. Sure, the Evasion pip is only -5%, but it's -5% that you can use if you move all the time, as opposed to Bulwark, which only works if you stand still, and only from the front/side arcs.
I seem to play a much different game than the general consensus on the Internet, though, and I feel like I've had a really easy time of it.
* Note: I have 9 Pilots, and I did spread out their specializations just to have them available, except for Juggernaut, because Juggernaut is horrible.
I have a mix of both. I have a Grasshopper with a +1 Hit Defense Gyro, and maxed evasion, jumping all over the place frustrating attackers. Then I usually have my Highlander Bulwarked raining death down. When I do move my Highlander, I usually jumpjet and Vigilance.
I had a Black Knight I was relying on Bulwark for, but I've since swapped it out for a Battlemaster, and I'm thinking focusing more on Evasion for it might work better. Especially since it has so much short range weaponry.
For my missile boat, I've gravitated towards Breach Shot and that's honestly all I care about. Sensor sweep is wasted because then it's not shooting. Evasion is blah because it rarely moves. Bulwark is equally blah because it's rarely exposed to fire. Oh well.
My philosophy for Breaching Shot is that you overcome 50% damage reduction by launching twice as many missiles. :-P So most of my 'Mechs have 2 LRM-20s or 2 LRM-15s. One rack is no longer sufficient in the late game to knock over a 'Mech anyway, so you might as well dump the kitchen sink on them and Alpha Strike. You can't Precision Strike with Multi-Shot anyway, and I'm not lacking for targets to Precision Strike. A target that is Braced just means I shoot at his friend over there that isn't Braced for a turn, while maneuvering out of range for the Braced target to hit me next turn.
That had been my philosophy. But recently it's hit a wall where I always run out of missiles too early. Then again, my missile boat is currently an Orion with 2 x LRM20 and an LRM10. If a target has cover or is entrenched, I'd rather be more economical with my missiles, hitting it with my single LRM20+++. Better if I can send missiles at 3 different entrenched targets.
Even when they were using medium mechs my pilots with bulwark often find a good position and don’t move for entire engagements. They are the anchor for the flankers and the backstabbers. Very heat efficient too as they just volley over and over.
Evasion is nice for jumpy boys but walking boys can just stand and deliver.
Except that they aren't, not usually. The flankers immediately become a new target as soon as they come into closer range than the stationary 'Mechs, because that's how the AI is trained.
Wondering if I should drop Medusa, he's got tactic's 9 but I grabbed the Piloting skill for extra evasion. It's just not paying off even close to bulwark here in the late game.
Eh, I use Evasion much more than I use Bulwark. The number of rounds that I stood still and just fired weapons are ones I can count on my fingers. Positioning and movement means a LOT more to me than soaking damage, especially since you can't rotate your 'Mechs if you stand still (and if you want to rotate out a 'Mech while having another 'Mech become the new tank, you have to retreat with the rest of your 'Mechs, which isn't always the best tactical option).
Really, my entire frontline* of pilots is Master Tactician + one other skill, and their specialization really molds what I have them do during combat. Sure, the Evasion pip is only -5%, but it's -5% that you can use if you move all the time, as opposed to Bulwark, which only works if you stand still, and only from the front/side arcs.
I seem to play a much different game than the general consensus on the Internet, though, and I feel like I've had a really easy time of it.
* Note: I have 9 Pilots, and I did spread out their specializations just to have them available, except for Juggernaut, because Juggernaut is horrible.
I have a mix of both. I have a Grasshopper with a +1 Hit Defense Gyro, and maxed evasion, jumping all over the place frustrating attackers. Then I usually have my Highlander Bulwarked raining death down. When I do move my Highlander, I usually jumpjet and Vigilance.
I had a Black Knight I was relying on Bulwark for, but I've since swapped it out for a Battlemaster, and I'm thinking focusing more on Evasion for it might work better. Especially since it has so much short range weaponry.
For my missile boat, I've gravitated towards Breach Shot and that's honestly all I care about. Sensor sweep is wasted because then it's not shooting. Evasion is blah because it rarely moves. Bulwark is equally blah because it's rarely exposed to fire. Oh well.
My philosophy for Breaching Shot is that you overcome 50% damage reduction by launching twice as many missiles. :-P So most of my 'Mechs have 2 LRM-20s or 2 LRM-15s. One rack is no longer sufficient in the late game to knock over a 'Mech anyway, so you might as well dump the kitchen sink on them and Alpha Strike. You can't Precision Strike with Multi-Shot anyway, and I'm not lacking for targets to Precision Strike. A target that is Braced just means I shoot at his friend over there that isn't Braced for a turn, while maneuvering out of range for the Braced target to hit me next turn.
To put it another way, the most damage you can ever bring to bear against a single target with Breaching Shot is 120, from an AC-20+++. Most of my Alphas are in the 300+ range now, which means that a Precision Alpha Strike will do more damage. Sure, at the cost of more heat and ammo, but I'm not hurting in either for all of the engagements.
Launching two LRM 20s at one guarding target is half as much total damage as launching one LRM 20 each at two different guarded targets.
Against a single target the sole LRM20 will do the same damage for half the ammo and heat as two LRM20.
Multitargeting is why breaching shot is a good skill, otherwise it would be very lackluster.
Wondering if I should drop Medusa, he's got tactic's 9 but I grabbed the Piloting skill for extra evasion. It's just not paying off even close to bulwark here in the late game.
Eh, I use Evasion much more than I use Bulwark. The number of rounds that I stood still and just fired weapons are ones I can count on my fingers. Positioning and movement means a LOT more to me than soaking damage, especially since you can't rotate your 'Mechs if you stand still (and if you want to rotate out a 'Mech while having another 'Mech become the new tank, you have to retreat with the rest of your 'Mechs, which isn't always the best tactical option).
Really, my entire frontline* of pilots is Master Tactician + one other skill, and their specialization really molds what I have them do during combat. Sure, the Evasion pip is only -5%, but it's -5% that you can use if you move all the time, as opposed to Bulwark, which only works if you stand still, and only from the front/side arcs.
I seem to play a much different game than the general consensus on the Internet, though, and I feel like I've had a really easy time of it.
* Note: I have 9 Pilots, and I did spread out their specializations just to have them available, except for Juggernaut, because Juggernaut is horrible.
I have a mix of both. I have a Grasshopper with a +1 Hit Defense Gyro, and maxed evasion, jumping all over the place frustrating attackers. Then I usually have my Highlander Bulwarked raining death down. When I do move my Highlander, I usually jumpjet and Vigilance.
I had a Black Knight I was relying on Bulwark for, but I've since swapped it out for a Battlemaster, and I'm thinking focusing more on Evasion for it might work better. Especially since it has so much short range weaponry.
For my missile boat, I've gravitated towards Breach Shot and that's honestly all I care about. Sensor sweep is wasted because then it's not shooting. Evasion is blah because it rarely moves. Bulwark is equally blah because it's rarely exposed to fire. Oh well.
My philosophy for Breaching Shot is that you overcome 50% damage reduction by launching twice as many missiles. :-P So most of my 'Mechs have 2 LRM-20s or 2 LRM-15s. One rack is no longer sufficient in the late game to knock over a 'Mech anyway, so you might as well dump the kitchen sink on them and Alpha Strike. You can't Precision Strike with Multi-Shot anyway, and I'm not lacking for targets to Precision Strike. A target that is Braced just means I shoot at his friend over there that isn't Braced for a turn, while maneuvering out of range for the Braced target to hit me next turn.
That had been my philosophy. But recently it's hit a wall where I always run out of missiles too early. Then again, my missile boat is currently an Orion with 2 x LRM20 and an LRM10. If a target has cover or is entrenched, I'd rather be more economical with my missiles, hitting it with my single LRM20+++. Better if I can send missiles at 3 different entrenched targets.
I can't even imagine a situation where I would engage with three separate entrenched targets in a round who aren't firing at you, other than the first round of contact if you accidentally sprint into sensor range. *shrugs* You pick off the lone guy who moved forward and launched his load too early, then take on his friends when they do the same.
Even when they were using medium mechs my pilots with bulwark often find a good position and don’t move for entire engagements. They are the anchor for the flankers and the backstabbers. Very heat efficient too as they just volley over and over.
Evasion is nice for jumpy boys but walking boys can just stand and deliver.
Except that they aren't, not usually. The flankers immediately become a new target as soon as they come into closer range than the stationary 'Mechs, because that's how the AI is trained.
Then the flankers jump away if the enemy hasn’t already been devastated and then the AI attacks the bulwarked targets because they are closer and yeah the AI in this game is real bad.
Wondering if I should drop Medusa, he's got tactic's 9 but I grabbed the Piloting skill for extra evasion. It's just not paying off even close to bulwark here in the late game.
Eh, I use Evasion much more than I use Bulwark. The number of rounds that I stood still and just fired weapons are ones I can count on my fingers. Positioning and movement means a LOT more to me than soaking damage, especially since you can't rotate your 'Mechs if you stand still (and if you want to rotate out a 'Mech while having another 'Mech become the new tank, you have to retreat with the rest of your 'Mechs, which isn't always the best tactical option).
Really, my entire frontline* of pilots is Master Tactician + one other skill, and their specialization really molds what I have them do during combat. Sure, the Evasion pip is only -5%, but it's -5% that you can use if you move all the time, as opposed to Bulwark, which only works if you stand still, and only from the front/side arcs.
I seem to play a much different game than the general consensus on the Internet, though, and I feel like I've had a really easy time of it.
* Note: I have 9 Pilots, and I did spread out their specializations just to have them available, except for Juggernaut, because Juggernaut is horrible.
I have a mix of both. I have a Grasshopper with a +1 Hit Defense Gyro, and maxed evasion, jumping all over the place frustrating attackers. Then I usually have my Highlander Bulwarked raining death down. When I do move my Highlander, I usually jumpjet and Vigilance.
I had a Black Knight I was relying on Bulwark for, but I've since swapped it out for a Battlemaster, and I'm thinking focusing more on Evasion for it might work better. Especially since it has so much short range weaponry.
For my missile boat, I've gravitated towards Breach Shot and that's honestly all I care about. Sensor sweep is wasted because then it's not shooting. Evasion is blah because it rarely moves. Bulwark is equally blah because it's rarely exposed to fire. Oh well.
My philosophy for Breaching Shot is that you overcome 50% damage reduction by launching twice as many missiles. :-P So most of my 'Mechs have 2 LRM-20s or 2 LRM-15s. One rack is no longer sufficient in the late game to knock over a 'Mech anyway, so you might as well dump the kitchen sink on them and Alpha Strike. You can't Precision Strike with Multi-Shot anyway, and I'm not lacking for targets to Precision Strike. A target that is Braced just means I shoot at his friend over there that isn't Braced for a turn, while maneuvering out of range for the Braced target to hit me next turn.
That had been my philosophy. But recently it's hit a wall where I always run out of missiles too early. Then again, my missile boat is currently an Orion with 2 x LRM20 and an LRM10. If a target has cover or is entrenched, I'd rather be more economical with my missiles, hitting it with my single LRM20+++. Better if I can send missiles at 3 different entrenched targets.
I can't even imagine a situation where I would engage with three separate entrenched targets in a round who aren't firing at you, other than the first round of contact if you accidentally sprint into sensor range. *shrugs* You pick off the lone guy who moved forward and launched his load too early, then take on his friends when they do the same.
Almost all of my fights begin with a round or two of LRM barrages unanswered by the enemy because massive sensor ranges + sensor lock + plenty of LOS blocking terrain means why not cripple the enemy before the fight even starts? And the enemy often braces in these situations because they have no targets at all.
Wondering if I should drop Medusa, he's got tactic's 9 but I grabbed the Piloting skill for extra evasion. It's just not paying off even close to bulwark here in the late game.
Eh, I use Evasion much more than I use Bulwark. The number of rounds that I stood still and just fired weapons are ones I can count on my fingers. Positioning and movement means a LOT more to me than soaking damage, especially since you can't rotate your 'Mechs if you stand still (and if you want to rotate out a 'Mech while having another 'Mech become the new tank, you have to retreat with the rest of your 'Mechs, which isn't always the best tactical option).
Really, my entire frontline* of pilots is Master Tactician + one other skill, and their specialization really molds what I have them do during combat. Sure, the Evasion pip is only -5%, but it's -5% that you can use if you move all the time, as opposed to Bulwark, which only works if you stand still, and only from the front/side arcs.
I seem to play a much different game than the general consensus on the Internet, though, and I feel like I've had a really easy time of it.
* Note: I have 9 Pilots, and I did spread out their specializations just to have them available, except for Juggernaut, because Juggernaut is horrible.
I have a mix of both. I have a Grasshopper with a +1 Hit Defense Gyro, and maxed evasion, jumping all over the place frustrating attackers. Then I usually have my Highlander Bulwarked raining death down. When I do move my Highlander, I usually jumpjet and Vigilance.
I had a Black Knight I was relying on Bulwark for, but I've since swapped it out for a Battlemaster, and I'm thinking focusing more on Evasion for it might work better. Especially since it has so much short range weaponry.
For my missile boat, I've gravitated towards Breach Shot and that's honestly all I care about. Sensor sweep is wasted because then it's not shooting. Evasion is blah because it rarely moves. Bulwark is equally blah because it's rarely exposed to fire. Oh well.
My philosophy for Breaching Shot is that you overcome 50% damage reduction by launching twice as many missiles. :-P So most of my 'Mechs have 2 LRM-20s or 2 LRM-15s. One rack is no longer sufficient in the late game to knock over a 'Mech anyway, so you might as well dump the kitchen sink on them and Alpha Strike. You can't Precision Strike with Multi-Shot anyway, and I'm not lacking for targets to Precision Strike. A target that is Braced just means I shoot at his friend over there that isn't Braced for a turn, while maneuvering out of range for the Braced target to hit me next turn.
To put it another way, the most damage you can ever bring to bear against a single target with Breaching Shot is 120, from an AC-20+++. Most of my Alphas are in the 300+ range now, which means that a Precision Alpha Strike will do more damage. Sure, at the cost of more heat and ammo, but I'm not hurting in either for all of the engagements.
Launching two LRM 20s at one guarding target is half as much total damage as launching one LRM 20 each at two different guarded targets.
Against a single target the sole LRM20 will do the same damage for half the ammo and heat as two LRM20.
Multitargeting is why breaching shot is a good skill, otherwise it would be very lackluster.
You are thinking efficiently (which can be good!), but efficiency doesn't matter if you are trying to take down ONE target, especially with the way Precision Strike is in this game. A single LRM-20 isn't going to take out a 'Mech. And yes, sure, I'm using Brute Force to overcome that problem, but it's not about firing 2 LRM-20s. Most of the time, it's about firing 2 LRM-20s and all your Medium Lasers and SRMs on a target.
I mean, I'm also wondering why you are firing at two separate Guarded targets in the first place, unless you have no other options. You should be concentrating fire on the 'Mech that is nearest to you that is shooting, which isn't guarding. It is vulnerable, it can be cored out easily.
I have a Multi-Target + Breaching Shot guy. I understand how this works. Breaching shot on all the Multi-Targets, sure. I'm not saying that is not efficient for ammo and heat consumption. But that efficiency largely does not matter in most of my engagements (compared to coring out a 'Mech per turn) except in the early game, and you don't have Breaching Shot in the early game.
Again, if Precision Strike wasn't in the game, I think I would think about pilot abilities very differently. It's straight up busted, to the point where things like Bracing largely doesn't matter if you can just concentrate a bunch of SRMs and lasers into the CT or leg.
Also, the opportunity cost of Breaching Shot is Master Tactician (or one of the other tier 2 abilities, but let's face it, it's just Master Tactician), and I get a LOT more utility out of Master Tactician than Breaching Shot.
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Tiger BurningDig if you will, the pictureRegistered User, SolidSaints Tuberegular
Precision strike is too good. Or maybe morale generation is. I keep finding myself at the end of rounds thinking, sure, I could shoot at this mech, but why waste a turn spraying damage around it's armor when I'm just going to core it out next round with a precision strike? Better to re-position, brace and dump some heat. Killing mechs in the late game is 75% precision strikes and 20% shooting them on the ground after they've been knocked over by LRMs.
Yeah master tactician is really really good. makes me want to retool my entire squad for it. really wish the game had respeccing for your mech warriors
I think precision is a cool idea but it probably needs to be usable far less often.
I kinda wish there were more morale abilities tbh? Give me a spring+charge or some other cool ability as well. Maybe precision a once-per-mission thing.
I think precision is a cool idea but it probably needs to be usable far less often.
I kinda wish there were more morale abilities tbh? Give me a spring+charge or some other cool ability as well. Maybe precision a once-per-mission thing.
I think morale could be okay if it could not refill during the course of a mission.
Yeah master tactician is really really good. makes me want to retool my entire squad for it. really wish the game had respeccing for your mech warriors
I have a ton of Master Tactician too. But I try not to go too hard into it, because I find myself lacking versatility. Having it on a heavy to move it into Round 3 is great. Having it on an Assault to move it into Round 2 a lot less so. In fact, I need it so rarely, I'd rather just use Vigilance.
I basically try to have a little bit of everything. Recently I've settled on making sure my missile boat has Breach, along with my Highlander. I'm still making up my mind whether I like keeping Master Tactician or Ace Pilot on my Grasshopper. Being able to shoot and then break LOS has proven extremely beneficial to it's survivability. When I was sporting a Black Knight I definitely kept Master Tactician on him, but since I've swapped him out for a Battlemaster, I'm less sure.
I get into weird situations where the Grasshopper is acting in round 3, and everyone else is round 1 often leaving the Grasshopper too exposed and unsupported while the Heavy's jack him up. So lately I've given the Grasshopper Ace Pilot so it acts in round 2, but can avoid a lot of fire, and give the Battlemaster Master Tactician so it can support the Grasshopper better if need be. In fact, the PPC I put on the Battlemaster is often all I need to finally push over something my missile boat had been hammering, further alleviating the Grasshopper from fire..
I think precision is a cool idea but it probably needs to be usable far less often.
I kinda wish there were more morale abilities tbh? Give me a spring+charge or some other cool ability as well. Maybe precision a once-per-mission thing.
Precision targeting is kind of already in the tabletop game, but it requires you to use a Targeting Computer (which weighs 1 ton/crit for every 4 or 5 tons of weapons it controls), and it only works for Energy and Ballistic weapons that fire once (Pulse Lasers and LB-X Cluster don't have that benefit). I would not be against requiring that sort of thing in your 'Mech to have that ability.
This is, of course, LosTech or post Helm memory core tech, but we have targeting systems in the game already.
Yeah precision should absolutely should not be in the game.
Letting players focus on specific targets and concentrate their damage is like the opposite of what Battletech should be about.
I want barely held together scraps of metal duking it out. Not a bunch of perfectly cored corpses surrounding my pristine Lance.
It also means maybe they could try to make the game challenging in ways other than just throwing more mechs at you.
I think this is the second time I've felt you conflated a mechanic being fundamentally broken, with late game 10/10/10/10 pilots being fundamentally broken.
Early in the game, before Called Shot Mastery, I used Precision almost entirely to push people back on the initiative track. It functioned as the barest suggestion of trying to hit the called section. By the end of the game, with all 4 pilots having Called Shot Master, my main tactic for taking down mechs is a virtuous cycle of coring one mech, refilling my morale, coring the next one, rinse, repeat. And I think that's all thanks to overpowered pilots.
There are things I like about the pilot system. But I also thinks it's the most OP part of the single player campaign.
I think precision is a cool idea but it probably needs to be usable far less often.
I kinda wish there were more morale abilities tbh? Give me a spring+charge or some other cool ability as well. Maybe precision a once-per-mission thing.
Precision targeting is kind of already in the tabletop game, but it requires you to use a Targeting Computer (which weighs 1 ton/crit for every 4 or 5 tons of weapons it controls), and it only works for Energy and Ballistic weapons that fire once (Pulse Lasers and LB-X Cluster don't have that benefit). I would not be against requiring that sort of thing in your 'Mech to have that ability.
This is, of course, LosTech or post Helm memory core tech, but we have targeting systems in the game already.
It also gives you a +3 to hit the target, instead of a -1 for a change of +4 to hit the target when you target a specific spot. Which is insanely huge in tabletop. It’s almost never worth doing.
Unlike precision shot which makes you more accurate.
Wondering if I should drop Medusa, he's got tactic's 9 but I grabbed the Piloting skill for extra evasion. It's just not paying off even close to bulwark here in the late game.
Eh, I use Evasion much more than I use Bulwark. The number of rounds that I stood still and just fired weapons are ones I can count on my fingers. Positioning and movement means a LOT more to me than soaking damage, especially since you can't rotate your 'Mechs if you stand still (and if you want to rotate out a 'Mech while having another 'Mech become the new tank, you have to retreat with the rest of your 'Mechs, which isn't always the best tactical option).
Really, my entire frontline* of pilots is Master Tactician + one other skill, and their specialization really molds what I have them do during combat. Sure, the Evasion pip is only -5%, but it's -5% that you can use if you move all the time, as opposed to Bulwark, which only works if you stand still, and only from the front/side arcs.
I seem to play a much different game than the general consensus on the Internet, though, and I feel like I've had a really easy time of it.
* Note: I have 9 Pilots, and I did spread out their specializations just to have them available, except for Juggernaut, because Juggernaut is horrible.
The bolded actually isn't true. You can stand still, change your facing, and bulwark will give you guarded
Wondering if I should drop Medusa, he's got tactic's 9 but I grabbed the Piloting skill for extra evasion. It's just not paying off even close to bulwark here in the late game.
Eh, I use Evasion much more than I use Bulwark. The number of rounds that I stood still and just fired weapons are ones I can count on my fingers. Positioning and movement means a LOT more to me than soaking damage, especially since you can't rotate your 'Mechs if you stand still (and if you want to rotate out a 'Mech while having another 'Mech become the new tank, you have to retreat with the rest of your 'Mechs, which isn't always the best tactical option).
Really, my entire frontline* of pilots is Master Tactician + one other skill, and their specialization really molds what I have them do during combat. Sure, the Evasion pip is only -5%, but it's -5% that you can use if you move all the time, as opposed to Bulwark, which only works if you stand still, and only from the front/side arcs.
I seem to play a much different game than the general consensus on the Internet, though, and I feel like I've had a really easy time of it.
* Note: I have 9 Pilots, and I did spread out their specializations just to have them available, except for Juggernaut, because Juggernaut is horrible.
The bolded actually isn't true. You can stand still, change your facing, and bulwark will give you guarded
Rotate as in rotate out your damaged 'Mech and rotate in one with fresh armor. Sorry for the confusion.
Yeah precision should absolutely should not be in the game.
Letting players focus on specific targets and concentrate their damage is like the opposite of what Battletech should be about.
I want barely held together scraps of metal duking it out. Not a bunch of perfectly cored corpses surrounding my pristine Lance.
It also means maybe they could try to make the game challenging in ways other than just throwing more mechs at you.
I think this is the second time I've felt you conflated a mechanic being fundamentally broken, with late game 10/10/10/10 pilots being fundamentally broken.
Early in the game, before Called Shot Mastery, I used Precision almost entirely to push people back on the initiative track. It functioned as the barest suggestion of trying to hit the called section. By the end of the game, with all 4 pilots having Called Shot Master, my main tactic for taking down mechs is a virtuous cycle of coring one mech, refilling my morale, coring the next one, rinse, repeat. And I think that's all thanks to overpowered pilots.
There are things I like about the pilot system. But I also thinks it's the most OP part of the single player campaign.
Bro I’m still in medium mechs mostly with mix skilled pilots. It’s been a super strong ability from the first campaign mission. But really for me It’s not about the skill being broken or not.
It’s about me fundamentally disagreeing with the ability to accurately target specific locations in Battletech and the feel of the decision to include something like precision shot.
I liked having two people with breaching shot and bulwark bu the end of the game. It meant that I could give each of them a +stab LRM-20, which together will unsteady almost everything. The other two had master tactician and ace pilot, and everyone had multishot (probably evasion would have been better on the tactician).
The master tactician had a BattleMaster and enough guns to precision strike apart anything under an Orion. The Ace Pilot had some LRMs, enough to knock over whatever the bulwarks had unsteadied. That allowed the BattleMaster to core it on the next round, because falling removes bracing. The bulwarks and the ace pilots also had enough direct-fire guns to seriously hurt whatever got too close, take out tanks and turrets, etc.
Ultimately, I was very happy to be able to efficiently use all my firepower even when the enemy tried to be defensive. Spreading the damage around tended to make for a scary few turns where they aren't really degraded at all, but then there's a tipping point and all their dudes start dying at once. Precision strike is great, but I preferred to just have one guy built to exploit it and build around bulwark/breaching shot for the rest.
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Powerpuppiesdrinking coffee in themountain cabinRegistered Userregular
I mostly like the game the way it is! Most changes in the direction of the tabletop would make me like it less. Called shot and morale are great as is.
I would however love it if pilots with 4 10s didn't trigger the untrained experience point comment from Darius after every mission.
If precision/morale are too good... don't use them? Folks in this thread tend to be very, very good at Battletech. In order for the game to be successful (and ofr HBS to deliver us more delicious, delicious content), the game needs to have a wider appeal than just the nostalgic and the hardcore. I'm glad there's a mechanic like precision/vigilance to make the game less brutal for folks working their way up the learning curve.
Wondering if I should drop Medusa, he's got tactic's 9 but I grabbed the Piloting skill for extra evasion. It's just not paying off even close to bulwark here in the late game.
Eh, I use Evasion much more than I use Bulwark. The number of rounds that I stood still and just fired weapons are ones I can count on my fingers. Positioning and movement means a LOT more to me than soaking damage, especially since you can't rotate your 'Mechs if you stand still (and if you want to rotate out a 'Mech while having another 'Mech become the new tank, you have to retreat with the rest of your 'Mechs, which isn't always the best tactical option).
Really, my entire frontline* of pilots is Master Tactician + one other skill, and their specialization really molds what I have them do during combat. Sure, the Evasion pip is only -5%, but it's -5% that you can use if you move all the time, as opposed to Bulwark, which only works if you stand still, and only from the front/side arcs.
I seem to play a much different game than the general consensus on the Internet, though, and I feel like I've had a really easy time of it.
* Note: I have 9 Pilots, and I did spread out their specializations just to have them available, except for Juggernaut, because Juggernaut is horrible.
The bolded actually isn't true. You can stand still, change your facing, and bulwark will give you guarded
Wait really? How do you rotate without actually moving/losing Bulwark?
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Tynnanseldom correct, never unsureRegistered Userregular
Wondering if I should drop Medusa, he's got tactic's 9 but I grabbed the Piloting skill for extra evasion. It's just not paying off even close to bulwark here in the late game.
Eh, I use Evasion much more than I use Bulwark. The number of rounds that I stood still and just fired weapons are ones I can count on my fingers. Positioning and movement means a LOT more to me than soaking damage, especially since you can't rotate your 'Mechs if you stand still (and if you want to rotate out a 'Mech while having another 'Mech become the new tank, you have to retreat with the rest of your 'Mechs, which isn't always the best tactical option).
Really, my entire frontline* of pilots is Master Tactician + one other skill, and their specialization really molds what I have them do during combat. Sure, the Evasion pip is only -5%, but it's -5% that you can use if you move all the time, as opposed to Bulwark, which only works if you stand still, and only from the front/side arcs.
I seem to play a much different game than the general consensus on the Internet, though, and I feel like I've had a really easy time of it.
* Note: I have 9 Pilots, and I did spread out their specializations just to have them available, except for Juggernaut, because Juggernaut is horrible.
The bolded actually isn't true. You can stand still, change your facing, and bulwark will give you guarded
Wait really? How do you rotate without actually moving/losing Bulwark?
While in the "move" action, mouse over your mech. Your cursor should change to a rotating icon under the mech. Click and adjust your facing cone, then click again to commit.
I think most of the problem with morale/precision strike and the +/++/+++ weapons is the bonuses are probably too high by end game so it starts breaking the game balance.
Called shot starts the game at about 50%, but with Mastery, it's 90%. Combined with the +3-4 accuracy of rare weapons and the 25% accuracy bonus from Gunnery and you can have entire alpha strikes hit one location and that seems excessive.
Morale at the beginning starts with 25 and only gains 1 per round. But by end game you can start with 50 and with Comm Systems, you can be gaining up to 13 per round doing literally nothing. And with the weaker stock weapons and lower offense mechs early game, even the component destruction & other morale bonuses take longer to get, you aren't coring out mechs every time you use Precision Strike, recharging most of it immediately. It's just able to be used too much by late game.
And with ++ weapons, you've got things like the +2 stability damage on LRMs, which is 3 times their starting value, meaning you go from needing focus fire from your entire lance over more than one round to knockdown a mech, to being able to do it in a single turn with just 2 attacks. Which means you're able to do even more Called Shots.
All that combined means you no longer have to make the tactical choices you did when you were running primarily medium mechs in the early/mid game.
Unfortunately, all this must be balanced against the fact that you are outnumbered 2:1 on every mission so you really kind of need all that overpowered BS just to survive.
Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
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To put it another way, the most damage you can ever bring to bear against a single target with Breaching Shot is 120, from an AC-20+++. Most of my Alphas are in the 300+ range now, which means that a Precision Alpha Strike will do more damage. Sure, at the cost of more heat and ammo, but I'm not hurting in either for all of the engagements.
Evasion is nice for jumpy boys but walking boys can just stand and deliver.
That had been my philosophy. But recently it's hit a wall where I always run out of missiles too early. Then again, my missile boat is currently an Orion with 2 x LRM20 and an LRM10. If a target has cover or is entrenched, I'd rather be more economical with my missiles, hitting it with my single LRM20+++. Better if I can send missiles at 3 different entrenched targets.
Launching two LRM 20s at one guarding target is half as much total damage as launching one LRM 20 each at two different guarded targets.
Against a single target the sole LRM20 will do the same damage for half the ammo and heat as two LRM20.
Multitargeting is why breaching shot is a good skill, otherwise it would be very lackluster.
Then the flankers jump away if the enemy hasn’t already been devastated and then the AI attacks the bulwarked targets because they are closer and yeah the AI in this game is real bad.
Almost all of my fights begin with a round or two of LRM barrages unanswered by the enemy because massive sensor ranges + sensor lock + plenty of LOS blocking terrain means why not cripple the enemy before the fight even starts? And the enemy often braces in these situations because they have no targets at all.
Shame there are no UACs or LBXs in the game.
Also no individual mech colorings..
I mean, I'm also wondering why you are firing at two separate Guarded targets in the first place, unless you have no other options. You should be concentrating fire on the 'Mech that is nearest to you that is shooting, which isn't guarding. It is vulnerable, it can be cored out easily.
I have a Multi-Target + Breaching Shot guy. I understand how this works. Breaching shot on all the Multi-Targets, sure. I'm not saying that is not efficient for ammo and heat consumption. But that efficiency largely does not matter in most of my engagements (compared to coring out a 'Mech per turn) except in the early game, and you don't have Breaching Shot in the early game.
Again, if Precision Strike wasn't in the game, I think I would think about pilot abilities very differently. It's straight up busted, to the point where things like Bracing largely doesn't matter if you can just concentrate a bunch of SRMs and lasers into the CT or leg.
Letting players focus on specific targets and concentrate their damage is like the opposite of what Battletech should be about.
I want barely held together scraps of metal duking it out. Not a bunch of perfectly cored corpses surrounding my pristine Lance.
It also means maybe they could try to make the game challenging in ways other than just throwing more mechs at you.
I kinda wish there were more morale abilities tbh? Give me a spring+charge or some other cool ability as well. Maybe precision a once-per-mission thing.
I think morale could be okay if it could not refill during the course of a mission.
I have a ton of Master Tactician too. But I try not to go too hard into it, because I find myself lacking versatility. Having it on a heavy to move it into Round 3 is great. Having it on an Assault to move it into Round 2 a lot less so. In fact, I need it so rarely, I'd rather just use Vigilance.
I basically try to have a little bit of everything. Recently I've settled on making sure my missile boat has Breach, along with my Highlander. I'm still making up my mind whether I like keeping Master Tactician or Ace Pilot on my Grasshopper. Being able to shoot and then break LOS has proven extremely beneficial to it's survivability. When I was sporting a Black Knight I definitely kept Master Tactician on him, but since I've swapped him out for a Battlemaster, I'm less sure.
I get into weird situations where the Grasshopper is acting in round 3, and everyone else is round 1 often leaving the Grasshopper too exposed and unsupported while the Heavy's jack him up. So lately I've given the Grasshopper Ace Pilot so it acts in round 2, but can avoid a lot of fire, and give the Battlemaster Master Tactician so it can support the Grasshopper better if need be. In fact, the PPC I put on the Battlemaster is often all I need to finally push over something my missile boat had been hammering, further alleviating the Grasshopper from fire..
This is, of course, LosTech or post Helm memory core tech, but we have targeting systems in the game already.
I think this is the second time I've felt you conflated a mechanic being fundamentally broken, with late game 10/10/10/10 pilots being fundamentally broken.
Early in the game, before Called Shot Mastery, I used Precision almost entirely to push people back on the initiative track. It functioned as the barest suggestion of trying to hit the called section. By the end of the game, with all 4 pilots having Called Shot Master, my main tactic for taking down mechs is a virtuous cycle of coring one mech, refilling my morale, coring the next one, rinse, repeat. And I think that's all thanks to overpowered pilots.
There are things I like about the pilot system. But I also thinks it's the most OP part of the single player campaign.
It also gives you a +3 to hit the target, instead of a -1 for a change of +4 to hit the target when you target a specific spot. Which is insanely huge in tabletop. It’s almost never worth doing.
Unlike precision shot which makes you more accurate.
The bolded actually isn't true. You can stand still, change your facing, and bulwark will give you guarded
Bro I’m still in medium mechs mostly with mix skilled pilots. It’s been a super strong ability from the first campaign mission. But really for me It’s not about the skill being broken or not.
It’s about me fundamentally disagreeing with the ability to accurately target specific locations in Battletech and the feel of the decision to include something like precision shot.
The master tactician had a BattleMaster and enough guns to precision strike apart anything under an Orion. The Ace Pilot had some LRMs, enough to knock over whatever the bulwarks had unsteadied. That allowed the BattleMaster to core it on the next round, because falling removes bracing. The bulwarks and the ace pilots also had enough direct-fire guns to seriously hurt whatever got too close, take out tanks and turrets, etc.
Ultimately, I was very happy to be able to efficiently use all my firepower even when the enemy tried to be defensive. Spreading the damage around tended to make for a scary few turns where they aren't really degraded at all, but then there's a tipping point and all their dudes start dying at once. Precision strike is great, but I preferred to just have one guy built to exploit it and build around bulwark/breaching shot for the rest.
I would however love it if pilots with 4 10s didn't trigger the untrained experience point comment from Darius after every mission.
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but I would love to see more options for morale expenditure! more options are always fun
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Wait really? How do you rotate without actually moving/losing Bulwark?
While in the "move" action, mouse over your mech. Your cursor should change to a rotating icon under the mech. Click and adjust your facing cone, then click again to commit.
Called shot starts the game at about 50%, but with Mastery, it's 90%. Combined with the +3-4 accuracy of rare weapons and the 25% accuracy bonus from Gunnery and you can have entire alpha strikes hit one location and that seems excessive.
Morale at the beginning starts with 25 and only gains 1 per round. But by end game you can start with 50 and with Comm Systems, you can be gaining up to 13 per round doing literally nothing. And with the weaker stock weapons and lower offense mechs early game, even the component destruction & other morale bonuses take longer to get, you aren't coring out mechs every time you use Precision Strike, recharging most of it immediately. It's just able to be used too much by late game.
And with ++ weapons, you've got things like the +2 stability damage on LRMs, which is 3 times their starting value, meaning you go from needing focus fire from your entire lance over more than one round to knockdown a mech, to being able to do it in a single turn with just 2 attacks. Which means you're able to do even more Called Shots.
All that combined means you no longer have to make the tactical choices you did when you were running primarily medium mechs in the early/mid game.
Unfortunately, all this must be balanced against the fact that you are outnumbered 2:1 on every mission so you really kind of need all that overpowered BS just to survive.