Really, 5e kind of has a class for everyone and always a new thing to try out so saying what you should avoid because it's broke is kind of a weird question.
Like, as we continue to trudge through tomb (a season I'm kind of done with at this point) I've been playing a kobold mastermind that act as a skill monkey and lucky charm for the group (master mind allows help as a bonus action) and in like 8 months I haven't made 1 single solitary attack against a hostile target and I've flat out stated that I won't under any circumstances break with my pascifist philosophy.
Which I'll freely admit is a bizzare way to play the game but it's been a hoot.
in an upcoming game I'll be playing a character who (initially) is *not* an adventurer, a book wizard, I'll have all of maybe one offensive spell, and who will be utterly horrified the first time I have to actually kill someone to save someone else's life
but beyond that the character is going to basically be built as a munchkin, just not played as one (I'll ask for persuasion checks to so much as walk through a muddy forest or venture out into the rain when not running for dear life)
Yeah my answer whenever this comes up is that the math in 5E just isn't tight enough that anything is outright bad. Sure there are some builds that are better at a given thing than others, but over time it all pretty much evens out. As is always the case in D&D, trying to be a jack-of-all-trades generally just makes you suck at everything instead of being good at anything (unless you're a Wizard), so it's always best to pick a niche and go for that.
But yeah general advice, just play what sounds fun. It'll probably be fine.
After a long role-playing hiatus, I've been invited to a 5E game. I played a little of 3.X, a ton of 4E, and I played in whatever the initial "My First D&D 5E module" was (Lost Mine of Something-Something?) with a pre-generated character.
Are there any classes and/or races to avoid? I wasn't too fired up about the Rogue in that module, but I'm not sure if that whole thing was playtest materials or not. I prefer to not be the Final Fantasy "move forward two steps, slash, move back two steps" character, but I'm open to pretty much anything. This game was just announced, so I'm not sure on what others will be playing.
I'll give a quick run down of classes. If you're playing in a party of min/maxers and looking to optimize, the stat in ()'s is that class's main stat, and you just pick a race that gets +2 to it. If you're playing with non-optimizers, then pick a race who's lore/flavor/special abilities sound cool. Ultimately, you'll miss out on *at most* a +2 to a main stat, which is actually only a +1 to the modifier. If your game is all about combat efficiency and optimization, it might matter. As a DM, though, there's so much fog in the encounter building system that I have to build in a bit of wobble, so my players know they don't really have to optimize in order to play well in my games. Your mileage may vary.
Fighter (STR or DEX) - Some of the most effective combat builds in the game are based around the fighter, or sometimes built around a 2 level dip in fighter, for access to Action Surge. Champion subclass is the one to avoid, if what you're looking for is interesting decisions to make every round. Battlemaster Fighter is fun, with lots of options during combat. DEX is technically the "optimal" choice, but the difference usually ends up being fairly small.
Rogue (DEX) - The base rogue class is pretty boring. Your options are essentially - find some way to hide or gain advantage some way, and unleash a single large attack. Arcane Trickster is a cool idea for a subclass, but in practice, you generally are almost always better off using your actions to sneak attack, rather than casting weak spells.
Warlock (CHA) - 90% of your combat rounds will be spent casting Eldritch Blast, if your DM runs multiple combats per day. You have some space for utility spells, but it's often hard to figure out when to use them. Invocations are cool as hell though.
Wizard (INT) - Easily the most versatile of all the classes. Access to the widest range of magical effects. If your games are at all deadly, the wizard is someone who will drop regularly.
Cleric (WIS/CHA) - Honestly, Clerics are surprisingly effective damage dealers, incredibly resilient, and some of the domains get access to some pretty funny things.
Druid (WIS) - Extremely versatile, access to wild shapes, generally pretty fun. If your campaign starts at level 1, Circle of the Moon Druids are *easily* the most OP things in combat in the game at level 2. It's utterly hilarious. I took out an entire castle full of goblins basically by myself as a level 2 druid, while my party watched in horror as a big brown bear just mauled it's way to the main boss.
Ranger - Probably the only class I'd actively avoid unless you know combat effectiveness doesn't really matter, and there's some kind of wilderness aspect to the campaign. Otherwise, a Crossbow Rogue or Ranged Fighter are both more effective, and will generally be able to use their class specific abilities more often.
Monk (DEX/WIS) - Shockingly effective combat class. Consistently outputs wayyyyy more damage than people think. Some fun lore and role play options. Kind of like the Battlemaster Fighter-Lite.
Sorceror - Kind of like the Wizard-lite. With some Warlock subclass chicanery, one of the highest damage per round capabilities in the game. Metamagics are super cool, but also extremely limited.
Don't forget Paladin(STR/CHA) Tough, good at blowing things up with Divine Smite, has some nice defensive auras.
I will say that some classes fared very well with the new subclasses in Xanathar's Guide to Everything. Barbarians, Rogues, Rangers, Warlocks, Fighters all got interesting options that diverge quite a bit from their vanilla incarnations.
Nothing actually ties them to STR though does it? Don't leave out all the elven Green Knights.
Only the multiclassing requirements, for some reason. But yes, a Dex Paladin is totally doable, they just have a harder time multiclassing.
Paladins get so much cool stuff that I've never been a fan of dipping out of it anyway. I get Warlock with it does work but especially trying to get to lvl 7 as fast as possible for Oath of Ancients is great.
Killed last nights big bad with Dissonant Whispers. The psychic damage took him out before the two Fairy Fire assisted attacks of opportunity got a chance to swing.
Yeah my answer whenever this comes up is that the math in 5E just isn't tight enough that anything is outright bad. Sure there are some builds that are better at a given thing than others, but over time it all pretty much evens out. As is always the case in D&D, trying to be a jack-of-all-trades generally just makes you suck at everything instead of being good at anything (unless you're a Wizard), so it's always best to pick a niche and go for that.
But yeah general advice, just play what sounds fun. It'll probably be fine.
This anti-bard rhetoric shall not stand!
Oh yeah I always forget about bards because most of them are awful characters. *triple snap*
Bards are super under appreciated; valor can be a fucking nightmare of a skirmisher while lore can troll the shit out of enemies with cutting words and spells that they have no buisness accessing.
i'm liable to play one next chance i get just so I can brag about how awesome my dude is.
valor bards are okay until level 10 and then they become really dangerous, armor of agathys, shadow blade, spiritual weapon, destructive wave? take your pick, yikes
Is there a good way to combine multiple PDF cards on to a single page? I have a new druid I want to make animal cards for but each card is an individual PDF on its own.
Is there a good way to combine multiple PDF cards on to a single page? I have a new druid I want to make animal cards for but each card is an individual PDF on its own.
Screenshot them and drop them into Powerpoint, cropping and resizing as needed?
Random idea that hit me today, and I wanted to jot it down so I don't forget it (and drop it here so that if anyone wants to steal it for something ...):
A mediocre bard that wished he could sing like [Insert Famous Historical Bard Here], and now he can! Except he can only sing songs that [Famous Bard] actually sung, and [Famous Bard] died a long time ago. Whenever the new guy tries to sing something modern, he reverts to his normal, not-great voice. So, he's trying to research old, potentially-forgotten songs that [Famous Bard] might have sung, to expand his repertoire, and possibly trying to find a way to resurrect or speak to the spirit of [Famous Bard] so he can teach him some new songs.
Is there a good way to combine multiple PDF cards on to a single page? I have a new druid I want to make animal cards for but each card is an individual PDF on its own.
There are a bunch of online tools that will merge PDF files together into one document. From there you should be able to find something that can print multiple pages per sheet.
I'm still struggling to find a tool that lets me print out an NPC/Monster/Item card of consistent size in a nice format while also having a spot to put a picture
I'm still struggling to find a tool that lets me print out an NPC/Monster/Item card of consistent size in a nice format while also having a spot to put a picture
Monday is my parties next game and I'm excited and anxious to find out if my party can pass the chaotic-stupid test! Can they resist picking a fight with something that clearly could tear the party limb from limb unarmed? Will they be able to have a civil conversation with an enemy who just wants to bargain?
At least one of my players reads this thread, but he knows how nervous I am about this session.
I left the last game off with the Fire Giant approaching and asking for parley so they could have a couple weeks to form a strategy.
Not to maximize your nervousness, but in my experience giving a party a couple weeks to form a strategy is how you take them from "We can't fight that, I guess we better talk our way out" to "Yes, this plan will work. We can definitely kill this guy."
In my own game we're supposed to be killing an orc chieftain in the middle of a gigantic orc city; the DM has clearly laid out some breadcrumbs leading us to methods for sneaking in and assassinating him without alerting the guards, but in the couple weeks since the last session the ranger and I have come to the conclusion that we can probably just fight his whole army and conquer the city and we are 100% going to try it.
Not to maximize your nervousness, but in my experience giving a party a couple weeks to form a strategy is how you take them from "We can't fight that, I guess we better talk our way out" to "Yes, this plan will work. We can definitely kill this guy."
In my own game we're supposed to be killing an orc chieftain in the middle of a gigantic orc city; the DM has clearly laid out some breadcrumbs leading us to methods for sneaking in and assassinating him without alerting the guards, but in the couple weeks since the last session the ranger and I have come to the conclusion that we can probably just fight his whole army and conquer the city and we are 100% going to try it.
This has been done to me by my players before. I laid out all the breadcrumbs for various paths to victory with clever challenges built in... only to have them pull an end around and brute force it making all of my meticulous planning and preparation moot. I was so stunned at the time, I didn't adjust and they waltzed all over me that day.
What I am saying is that I hope the Orcs eat your faces. All of your faces. Twice.
The party survived the session I was anxious about! They spent two hours negotiating with and then just chatting with an enemy, it was an incredible change of pace versus the usual 'attack first and forget you wanted to take one alive' type strategy that the party likes to pursue.
I do love playing on roll20 though, combat can flow so fast when players just press one button to roll their attack/damage, no second guessing proficiency or attribute math or hunting for dice. We had a two hour conversation and then managed to get through three combats and two days worth of travel with the rest of the session!
The party is heading to Triboar next for various reasons, mostly shopping, and just hit level 4. SKT proper doesn't start until level 5, so I expect they'll be hanging around in the Dessarin valley for at least a few more sessions, unless the players tell me they want to move on.
My weekly Curse of Strahd is tonight. We hit level 4 after the last session. So my Bard got a Charisma bump, a new Cantrip, and a new spell. I grabbed Message for the Cantrip and Calm Emotions for the 2nd level spell. I'm bummed Message is a full action, because if it was a bonus action I would whisper taunts to different enemies every turn.
it was an incredible change of pace versus the usual 'attack first and forget you wanted to take one alive' type strategy that the party likes to pursue.
Honestly I prefer when the party forgets to take anyone alive. The majority of the bad/uncomfortable RP moments I can think of involve prisoner interrogation.
it was an incredible change of pace versus the usual 'attack first and forget you wanted to take one alive' type strategy that the party likes to pursue.
Honestly I prefer when the party forgets to take anyone alive. The majority of the bad/uncomfortable RP moments I can think of involve prisoner interrogation.
my players kinda ended up forgetting to ask questions.
The captured mook would wake up, at which point the ranger of all people took his sword out of the fire and just went to work.
it was an incredible change of pace versus the usual 'attack first and forget you wanted to take one alive' type strategy that the party likes to pursue.
Honestly I prefer when the party forgets to take anyone alive. The majority of the bad/uncomfortable RP moments I can think of involve prisoner interrogation.
The last D&D game I played the party dragon born tried to eat the prisoner I was talking to..
it was an incredible change of pace versus the usual 'attack first and forget you wanted to take one alive' type strategy that the party likes to pursue.
Honestly I prefer when the party forgets to take anyone alive. The majority of the bad/uncomfortable RP moments I can think of involve prisoner interrogation.
In my experience, prisoner interrogation turns normally level headed players/characters into raging evil douchebags who are very quick to torture and kill and yet will protest their innocence the moment you challenge them on it.
My character is a fairly pragmatic kind of person, so I was going to bluff my way through an interrogation. I was prepping knives, took off their shoes, tied string around their toes and built a small fire. It was all pure theatrics, I wasn't gonna do anything. I got them to tell me most, but not everything (according to an insight check they were holding back a bit). I was just going to leave them tied up and let them fend for themselves. The other party members decided that they wanted that last bit of info so they suspended the poor drow mook over the mouth of the party dragonborne monk who had been polymorphed in the fight into a T-Rex. This character (the monk) was by far the most "good" in the group. After they failed to get anything more they fucking dropped her and *CHOMP*.
The monk left the game shortly after, being unable to reconcile what they had done. The player rolled up a new character that is a lizardman druid that has tried to eat several sapient species in front of me, and I've had to put my foot down that we don't eat things with language skills.
My character had been turned into a vampire almost a year ago and I'M THE FUCKING MORAL CENTER OF THE GROUP.
+5
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webguy20I spend too much time on the InternetRegistered Userregular
D&D doesn't really have a good way to deal with POWs baked in. It's easier just to kill everyone in battle.
D&D doesn't really have a good way to deal with POWs baked in. It's easier just to kill everyone in battle.
Last prisoner my players took coughed up the info immediately, he was not being paid enough to deal with these psychos. He's now an NPC with the party as, after they fixed his shattered legs (he got em on the way to being a prisoner), They offered to compensate him monetarily, and really that's all he cares about. He's definitely going to betray the party someday. Probably long after they no longer expect it to happen.
it was an incredible change of pace versus the usual 'attack first and forget you wanted to take one alive' type strategy that the party likes to pursue.
Honestly I prefer when the party forgets to take anyone alive. The majority of the bad/uncomfortable RP moments I can think of involve prisoner interrogation.
The last D&D game I played the party dragon born tried to eat the prisoner I was talking to..
my pixie sorcerer tickled a goblin prisoner with mage hand until it talked, the dm had to pause to figure out what to roll for that (the dwarf told the goblin that its soul was being stolen and it believed it and spilled everything it knew)
then shape water to encase him in a cylinder of ice and roll him along behind us
we just finished the dungeon and somehow along the way with persuasion and deception checks and displays of immense power (as sorcerers do when they feel like going nuclear) the goblins think my pixie is a god of some variety so next session I gotta figure out what to do about that
I do think too many parties are quick to just murder everything, I really like that my table seeks to avoid fatalities when possible. I've kind of trained it into them, in the game Im running now at the very start, in Phandelver, I had regular ass civilians down in the redbrand area - just teenagers who want to hang out with the cool dudes with red cloaks and weapons, and the party ended up killing 3 civilians in their assault because they took zero stock of the situation (ignoring details about people in the room being unarmed and just drinking beer or playing cards)
My character is a fairly pragmatic kind of person, so I was going to bluff my way through an interrogation. I was prepping knives, took off their shoes, tied string around their toes and built a small fire. It was all pure theatrics, I wasn't gonna do anything. I got them to tell me most, but not everything (according to an insight check they were holding back a bit). I was just going to leave them tied up and let them fend for themselves. The other party members decided that they wanted that last bit of info so they suspended the poor drow mook over the mouth of the party dragonborne monk who had been polymorphed in the fight into a T-Rex. This character (the monk) was by far the most "good" in the group. After they failed to get anything more they fucking dropped her and *CHOMP*.
The monk left the game shortly after, being unable to reconcile what they had done. The player rolled up a new character that is a lizardman druid that has tried to eat several sapient species in front of me, and I've had to put my foot down that we don't eat things with language skills.
My character had been turned into a vampire almost a year ago and I'M THE FUCKING MORAL CENTER OF THE GROUP.
Well, you're saying it to somebody who probably has Speak with Animals and Speak with Plants (Planets, autocorrect? Really? ... that might be a cool spell actually), leaving him with a very limited diet till some splatbook comes up with Speak with Fungi.
D&D doesn't really have a good way to deal with POWs baked in. It's easier just to kill everyone in battle.
Sure. But don't think that's limited to D&D though.
True. I just have most of my experience in D&D.
Really it breaks down to what do you do with a hostile agent you've captured, potentially miles from anywhere. Double down on this if your a good aligned party.
I've been planning a new 5e campaign for maybe a week now, and last night I found out that OneNote, which I used in college, is free now and has pretty good mobile support. So I spent tonight transferring all my plaintext notes into it. I really like the organizational system of Books > Sections > Pages, and the quicklink feature is great, although it's travesty that it doesn't work in OneNote Online.
I've got things broken down into Sessions, Encounters, Greater NPCs, Lesser NPCs, Places, Lore, Homebrew, and Ideas.
I also picked up the 5e PHB from the shop where I play on Thursdays and got some advice on what night would work best.
Next step is make some creature tokens like the ones listed a few pages back in this thread.
D&D doesn't really have a good way to deal with POWs baked in. It's easier just to kill everyone in battle.
Sure. But don't think that's limited to D&D though.
True. I just have most of my experience in D&D.
Really it breaks down to what do you do with a hostile agent you've captured, potentially miles from anywhere. Double down on this if your a good aligned party.
if you have suggestion it lasts for 8 hours, so you can suggest they go knit a sweater instead of fighting
D&D doesn't really have a good way to deal with POWs baked in. It's easier just to kill everyone in battle.
Sure. But don't think that's limited to D&D though.
True. I just have most of my experience in D&D.
Really it breaks down to what do you do with a hostile agent you've captured, potentially miles from anywhere. Double down on this if your a good aligned party.
if you have suggestion it lasts for 8 hours, so you can suggest they go knit a sweater instead of fighting
"The suggestion must be worded to make the action sound reasonable."
Asking Bob, the roided out thug with an axe to abandon his friends and go do something he considers a complete waste of time is the exact opposite of what the spell requires :P
D&D doesn't really have a good way to deal with POWs baked in. It's easier just to kill everyone in battle.
Sure. But don't think that's limited to D&D though.
True. I just have most of my experience in D&D.
Really it breaks down to what do you do with a hostile agent you've captured, potentially miles from anywhere. Double down on this if your a good aligned party.
if you have suggestion it lasts for 8 hours, so you can suggest they go knit a sweater instead of fighting
"The suggestion must be worded to make the action sound reasonable."
Asking Bob, the roided out thug with an axe to abandon his friends and go do something he considers a complete waste of time is the exact opposite of what the spell requires :P
Previous editions included that vats of acid were in fact water and swimming was fun. If it is a spell that basically amounts to doing what they'd do anyway it really isn't the same level as fireball.
Posts
in an upcoming game I'll be playing a character who (initially) is *not* an adventurer, a book wizard, I'll have all of maybe one offensive spell, and who will be utterly horrified the first time I have to actually kill someone to save someone else's life
but beyond that the character is going to basically be built as a munchkin, just not played as one (I'll ask for persuasion checks to so much as walk through a muddy forest or venture out into the rain when not running for dear life)
this campaign is curse of strahd
This anti-bard rhetoric shall not stand!
Paladins get so much cool stuff that I've never been a fan of dipping out of it anyway. I get Warlock with it does work but especially trying to get to lvl 7 as fast as possible for Oath of Ancients is great.
And then I pocketed an expensive bottle of wine.
Bard life is best life.
Comics, Games, Booze
we're skipping death house
I predict death by hags in game 1
Oh yeah I always forget about bards because most of them are awful characters. *triple snap*
i'm liable to play one next chance i get just so I can brag about how awesome my dude is.
Screenshot them and drop them into Powerpoint, cropping and resizing as needed?
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
After mine died and had to make a deal with an Archfey to come back, he also has a couple of levels in Warlock
Past level 11, with triple Agonizing Blasts + Hex, he can also range nuke as well as anyone
A mediocre bard that wished he could sing like [Insert Famous Historical Bard Here], and now he can! Except he can only sing songs that [Famous Bard] actually sung, and [Famous Bard] died a long time ago. Whenever the new guy tries to sing something modern, he reverts to his normal, not-great voice. So, he's trying to research old, potentially-forgotten songs that [Famous Bard] might have sung, to expand his repertoire, and possibly trying to find a way to resurrect or speak to the spirit of [Famous Bard] so he can teach him some new songs.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
There are a bunch of online tools that will merge PDF files together into one document. From there you should be able to find something that can print multiple pages per sheet.
Maybe something like this? http://crobi.github.io/rpg-cards/generator/generate.html
I haven't tried it myself.
At least one of my players reads this thread, but he knows how nervous I am about this session.
I left the last game off with the Fire Giant approaching and asking for parley so they could have a couple weeks to form a strategy.
In my own game we're supposed to be killing an orc chieftain in the middle of a gigantic orc city; the DM has clearly laid out some breadcrumbs leading us to methods for sneaking in and assassinating him without alerting the guards, but in the couple weeks since the last session the ranger and I have come to the conclusion that we can probably just fight his whole army and conquer the city and we are 100% going to try it.
#SnowflakeWardance
This has been done to me by my players before. I laid out all the breadcrumbs for various paths to victory with clever challenges built in... only to have them pull an end around and brute force it making all of my meticulous planning and preparation moot. I was so stunned at the time, I didn't adjust and they waltzed all over me that day.
What I am saying is that I hope the Orcs eat your faces. All of your faces. Twice.
I do love playing on roll20 though, combat can flow so fast when players just press one button to roll their attack/damage, no second guessing proficiency or attribute math or hunting for dice. We had a two hour conversation and then managed to get through three combats and two days worth of travel with the rest of the session!
The party is heading to Triboar next for various reasons, mostly shopping, and just hit level 4. SKT proper doesn't start until level 5, so I expect they'll be hanging around in the Dessarin valley for at least a few more sessions, unless the players tell me they want to move on.
Comics, Games, Booze
Honestly I prefer when the party forgets to take anyone alive. The majority of the bad/uncomfortable RP moments I can think of involve prisoner interrogation.
my players kinda ended up forgetting to ask questions.
The captured mook would wake up, at which point the ranger of all people took his sword out of the fire and just went to work.
The last D&D game I played the party dragon born tried to eat the prisoner I was talking to..
In my experience, prisoner interrogation turns normally level headed players/characters into raging evil douchebags who are very quick to torture and kill and yet will protest their innocence the moment you challenge them on it.
The monk left the game shortly after, being unable to reconcile what they had done. The player rolled up a new character that is a lizardman druid that has tried to eat several sapient species in front of me, and I've had to put my foot down that we don't eat things with language skills.
My character had been turned into a vampire almost a year ago and I'M THE FUCKING MORAL CENTER OF THE GROUP.
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
Last prisoner my players took coughed up the info immediately, he was not being paid enough to deal with these psychos. He's now an NPC with the party as, after they fixed his shattered legs (he got em on the way to being a prisoner), They offered to compensate him monetarily, and really that's all he cares about. He's definitely going to betray the party someday. Probably long after they no longer expect it to happen.
my pixie sorcerer tickled a goblin prisoner with mage hand until it talked, the dm had to pause to figure out what to roll for that (the dwarf told the goblin that its soul was being stolen and it believed it and spilled everything it knew)
then shape water to encase him in a cylinder of ice and roll him along behind us
we just finished the dungeon and somehow along the way with persuasion and deception checks and displays of immense power (as sorcerers do when they feel like going nuclear) the goblins think my pixie is a god of some variety so next session I gotta figure out what to do about that
I do think too many parties are quick to just murder everything, I really like that my table seeks to avoid fatalities when possible. I've kind of trained it into them, in the game Im running now at the very start, in Phandelver, I had regular ass civilians down in the redbrand area - just teenagers who want to hang out with the cool dudes with red cloaks and weapons, and the party ended up killing 3 civilians in their assault because they took zero stock of the situation (ignoring details about people in the room being unarmed and just drinking beer or playing cards)
the town was less grateful than they'd have hoped
Sure. But don't think that's limited to D&D though.
Well, you're saying it to somebody who probably has Speak with Animals and Speak with Plants (Planets, autocorrect? Really? ... that might be a cool spell actually), leaving him with a very limited diet till some splatbook comes up with Speak with Fungi.
True. I just have most of my experience in D&D.
Really it breaks down to what do you do with a hostile agent you've captured, potentially miles from anywhere. Double down on this if your a good aligned party.
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
I've got things broken down into Sessions, Encounters, Greater NPCs, Lesser NPCs, Places, Lore, Homebrew, and Ideas.
I also picked up the 5e PHB from the shop where I play on Thursdays and got some advice on what night would work best.
Next step is make some creature tokens like the ones listed a few pages back in this thread.
if you have suggestion it lasts for 8 hours, so you can suggest they go knit a sweater instead of fighting
"The suggestion must be worded to make the action sound reasonable."
Asking Bob, the roided out thug with an axe to abandon his friends and go do something he considers a complete waste of time is the exact opposite of what the spell requires :P
Previous editions included that vats of acid were in fact water and swimming was fun. If it is a spell that basically amounts to doing what they'd do anyway it really isn't the same level as fireball.