I clearly said using force powers. Not vague prophetic statements about what she might do with training we never see, are never told about, or anything. All we needed was one line about how Luke instructed her too. Or she also helped teach his disciples (which creates the assumption she'd become force proficient). Or Luke saying the rebellion doesn't need his force powers because Leia is around. Or she could have done anything telekenitic ever in TFA or earlier in the film. Hell, they could have at least put a lightsaber on her belt to signal she's got something up her sleeve, even if she never uses it.
At best all we saw was the same run of the mill force sensitivity she's kinda had since Empire Strikes Back. It was lazy scripting, period. Because at the end of the day, all we know is what the move tells us. It needs to prepare us for what it expects us to accept. It didn't. It didn't even try. On so many issues. And it wasn't that it couldn't. There were a few areas where it did a good job. The spine of the movie around Rey, Luke and Kylo was solid and well done. But they were so profoundly slapdash and lazy around everything else, it was distractingly bad.
And I'm done. I don't want to piss of Tube, but I don't think it's fair that people keep going past his saying stop, direclty at me, and I shouldn't respond?
Sorry Tube, this is it out of me, I promise.
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Dr_KeenbeanDumb as a buttPlanet Express ShipRegistered Userregular
I disagree with people's distaste for TLJ, but I understand where they're coming from and I think a lot of those folks would really enjoy Solo.
It was nice to see a Star Wars film and just have fun again.
This is broad across all the new Star Wars movies, but I really don't get the hangup people have with "they didn't have training". It's not like a movie suddenly having someone fly a plane without training. The Force is magic and basically powered by spirit. Sure, even magic needs rules. But in this setting those rules mean that your mastery of the Force is constrained by your spiritual journey, not some sort of education in Force theory. Using the Force when "incomplete your training is" tends to mean you'll lose control or be subject to the Dark Side (which, incidentally, untrained Rey does). The handy thing about magic powered by determination and belief is that the character beats in your movie also function as spell levels for those characters.
Every scene with Leia in 7 and 8 hammers you with the information that she is a fully actualized character who simply chose not to pursue the Jedi way. So it seems perfectly reasonable and telegraphed to me that in desperate need, the Force is available to her.
I just don't get the insistence that Star Wars has to be hard sci fi with detailed explanations of everything. Wasn't that one of the things people generally didn't like about the prequels?
Back on topic, I'm glad to hear Solo was fun and hopefully people can either enjoy it or not enjoy it in peace.
I lament what it could've been. In my mind, they should've thrown out the love arc completely, and they missed a golden opportunity to do a slick 48-hours or Lethal Weapon in space style buddy action movie with Solo and Lando killing it together as a pair of mismatch misfits trying to pull off the biggest heist/double-cross this side of Tatooine.
Leia didn't have training, unlike Luke, who used a Force power after being concussed in an ice cave. That's totally the same thing as training!
Solo was pleasing to me. The main guy didn't really come off as "Han Solo" to me, which sounds like it would be a death blow, but he wasn't obnoxious or anything and the heist/crime/caper is a strong genre. I've always been a fan of non-Jedi Star Wars stuff, seeing a whole movie about it was pretty sweet. I'm still hoping for a "mainly focused on the fighter pilots" movie or show, but I'm probably shit out of luck on that one, especially with the box office for Solo.
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KageraImitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered Userregular
I’m sure in the twenty something years she learned she has force sensitivity Leia might have practiced using it once in a while if for nothing else then to control her space dildo when Han left.
-Leia unconscious powers of force space flight. Took me out of the frickin' movie. 20 better ways for that scene to go down w/o granting Superman powers to someone who had previously shown only minor capabilities - with no foreshadowing.
Look, I can't tell you how to feel, because you feel how you feel. She doesn't have the power of "space flight." She has the power of physics with thethe same telekinetic power even Luke showed after extremely minimal training. It still baffles me that people don't get this. If you try to pull a massive object toward you, you instead pull yourself towards the massive object. She's had decades since we last checked in with us.
I don't think it's really much of a stretch, especially if you look at the original movies. Who saw it coming when Luke is hanging upside down and he pulls the lightsaber into his hand? Or when Yoda pulls an entire X-Wing out of a swamp? Or when dead Jedis show up as ghosts? Or when the Emperor shoots lightning out of his fingertips?
It almost feels like they're making this stuff up as they go along...
I feel like you missed the most important part and are just talking past him. It was done with zero foreshadowing, in addition to just being a goofy stupid scene un-Star Warsy scene. That was some straight up prequel level of cartoonishness, bad CGI, and comic booky nonsense.
I came away from TLJ feeling like I'd just seen an MCU movie. But not in a good way. Because Star Wars isn't the MCU. It's supposed to have a different tone, motif, sensibilities, humor. I don't want Star Wars to be aware that it's Star Wars the way the MCU is aware they are all comic book movies and it's cute. I don't want Star Wars to have a character crack a joke during every dramatic scene the way the MCU does. And I don't want the heroes to inexplicable Deus Ex Machina some new power every time the villian has their number like in the MCU.
But back to the lack of forshadowing. Luke uses some slight force pull technique, with visible effort in the second film after some brief force training? Believable. Yoda and Palpatine being set up as Force Masters by other characters showing Force Master level abilities? Believable. Force ghost? That's set up by the most memorable line from the original film. "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."
Leia going from never using, in any capacity, any force powers, or having any character ever reference her having any force powers, to some crazy near death levitation shit literally straight out of the terrible Palpatine v Yoda CGI fight nobody ever wanted is pretty unbelievable.
My mind went to Marry Poppins. But the "MCU in SW" thing ties exactly into my opinion of it.
I came out of Solo pretty happy though.
I mean this forum doesn't have a rule about necroing afaik, and anyway it's the comments section, I think you're supposed to be able to just drop into it on any old comic.
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H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
edited May 2020
I was gonna argue some points with Namrok, but it doesn't seem worth bothering. We're not gonna see eye-to-eye on TLJ, and that's alright. And dennis already beat me to the main thing I was gonna bring up (shows me for making a post before getting to the end of the thread; I know better, but I occasionally slip up and do it anyway).
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I feel like maybe you don't remember the original movies very well:
Princess Leia Organa: Luke, don't talk that way! You have a power I don't understand and could never have.
Luke Skywalker: You're wrong, Leia. You have that power too. In time you'll learn to use it as I have. The Force is strong in my family. My father has it. I have it and... My sister has it.
(Is talking about Return of the Jedi allowed?)
I clearly said using force powers. Not vague prophetic statements about what she might do with training we never see, are never told about, or anything. All we needed was one line about how Luke instructed her too. Or she also helped teach his disciples (which creates the assumption she'd become force proficient). Or Luke saying the rebellion doesn't need his force powers because Leia is around. Or she could have done anything telekenitic ever in TFA or earlier in the film. Hell, they could have at least put a lightsaber on her belt to signal she's got something up her sleeve, even if she never uses it.
At best all we saw was the same run of the mill force sensitivity she's kinda had since Empire Strikes Back. It was lazy scripting, period. Because at the end of the day, all we know is what the move tells us. It needs to prepare us for what it expects us to accept. It didn't. It didn't even try. On so many issues. And it wasn't that it couldn't. There were a few areas where it did a good job. The spine of the movie around Rey, Luke and Kylo was solid and well done. But they were so profoundly slapdash and lazy around everything else, it was distractingly bad.
And I'm done. I don't want to piss of Tube, but I don't think it's fair that people keep going past his saying stop, direclty at me, and I shouldn't respond?
Sorry Tube, this is it out of me, I promise.
It was nice to see a Star Wars film and just have fun again.
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Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
Every scene with Leia in 7 and 8 hammers you with the information that she is a fully actualized character who simply chose not to pursue the Jedi way. So it seems perfectly reasonable and telegraphed to me that in desperate need, the Force is available to her.
I just don't get the insistence that Star Wars has to be hard sci fi with detailed explanations of everything. Wasn't that one of the things people generally didn't like about the prequels?
Back on topic, I'm glad to hear Solo was fun and hopefully people can either enjoy it or not enjoy it in peace.
I lament what it could've been. In my mind, they should've thrown out the love arc completely, and they missed a golden opportunity to do a slick 48-hours or Lethal Weapon in space style buddy action movie with Solo and Lando killing it together as a pair of mismatch misfits trying to pull off the biggest heist/double-cross this side of Tatooine.
Solo was pleasing to me. The main guy didn't really come off as "Han Solo" to me, which sounds like it would be a death blow, but he wasn't obnoxious or anything and the heist/crime/caper is a strong genre. I've always been a fan of non-Jedi Star Wars stuff, seeing a whole movie about it was pretty sweet. I'm still hoping for a "mainly focused on the fighter pilots" movie or show, but I'm probably shit out of luck on that one, especially with the box office for Solo.
And he didn't need any manipulation for his evening debriefings with the General.
My mind went to Marry Poppins. But the "MCU in SW" thing ties exactly into my opinion of it.
I came out of Solo pretty happy though.