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[Legion] on FX: Season 2 is finished - beware open spoilers

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Posts

  • ObiFettObiFett Use the Force As You WishRegistered User regular
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    So we require more information. See the quote from the show runner above.

    Anyway, if they make David the bad guy fuck that, who are we going to root for? People he should obliterate instantly? The SK? Just a bad direction to go.

    Syd

    I mean, she's a rapist, too. Like a double rapist even.

  • OneAngryPossumOneAngryPossum Registered User regular
    Syd was an actual child. There’s a lot of similarities in their motivations, that desire for closeness, but the level of understanding is significantly different, and the greater risk to the world due to that immaturity even more so.

  • RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    ObiFett wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    So we require more information. See the quote from the show runner above.

    Anyway, if they make David the bad guy fuck that, who are we going to root for? People he should obliterate instantly? The SK? Just a bad direction to go.

    Syd

    I mean, she's a rapist, too. Like a double rapist even.

    Who is at a totally different point in her life/arc, as opposed to David who was last seen raping and torturing folk he supposedly cares for.

    RedTide#1907 on Battle.net
    Come Overwatch with meeeee
  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Amusing note from closed captioning
    the other two davids are named Divad and DVD

  • FreiFrei A French Prometheus Unbound DeadwoodRegistered User regular
    RedTide wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    So we require more information. See the quote from the show runner above.

    Anyway, if they make David the bad guy fuck that, who are we going to root for? People he should obliterate instantly? The SK? Just a bad direction to go.

    You may be doing a thing where you empathize or project a part of yourself onto a fictional character and may be missing or minimizing some terrible shit that has to be dealt with and acknowledged in order for the narrative to make sense.

    I'm calling it Walter White syndrome.

    you might be armchair psychologist-ing, I call it "why act like that?" syndrome. to project a part of myself onto Oliver, Chill, baby, there's no boo-boo here.

    Are you the magic man?
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Me, I'm on team Cary/Kerry.

    I don't mind if they have David go full villain. He's super interesting as a villain.

    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
  • RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    Frei wrote: »
    RedTide wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    So we require more information. See the quote from the show runner above.

    Anyway, if they make David the bad guy fuck that, who are we going to root for? People he should obliterate instantly? The SK? Just a bad direction to go.

    You may be doing a thing where you empathize or project a part of yourself onto a fictional character and may be missing or minimizing some terrible shit that has to be dealt with and acknowledged in order for the narrative to make sense.

    I'm calling it Walter White syndrome.

    you might be armchair psychologist-ing, I call it "why act like that?" syndrome. to project a part of myself onto Oliver, Chill, baby, there's no boo-boo here.

    *Clicks pen*

    Yes, now tell me about how Skyler and Syd are the same person and also both the worst...

    RedTide#1907 on Battle.net
    Come Overwatch with meeeee
  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    i mean... wasnt it fairly clear that david was going to be the bad guy at some point? hes a villain in the comics and hes clearly an ambiguous character as portrayed

    obF2Wuw.png
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    ObiFett wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    So we require more information. See the quote from the show runner above.

    Anyway, if they make David the bad guy fuck that, who are we going to root for? People he should obliterate instantly? The SK? Just a bad direction to go.

    Syd

    I mean, she's a rapist, too. Like a double rapist even.

    It's a show about terrible people plus Cary/Kerry. She's the one showing an upward trajectory

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    i mean... wasnt it fairly clear that david was going to be the bad guy at some point? hes a villain in the comics and hes clearly an ambiguous character as portrayed

    My understanding of him in the comics (having not read them, but only about them) is that he's often less the villain than the antagonist. He does things for what might be understandable reasons, it's just that the very nature of his basically unlimited power ultimately corrupts his actions and fucks everything up.

    He's not evil, he's a crazy person with a damaged notion of moral boundaries and limitless power. He wants to be good, he just legit has no understanding of what that means.
    His rape of Syd, for example. He wants himself to be happy, he wants Syd to be happy. He accomplishes this by erasing her memory - problem solved. Even after it's pointed out that this is despicable behavior, he doesn't get it; moral truths are beyond his capacity to understand.

    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
  • OneAngryPossumOneAngryPossum Registered User regular
    edited June 2018
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    i mean... wasnt it fairly clear that david was going to be the bad guy at some point? hes a villain in the comics and hes clearly an ambiguous character as portrayed

    My understanding of him in the comics (having not read them, but only about them) is that he's often less the villain than the antagonist. He does things for what might be understandable reasons, it's just that the very nature of his basically unlimited power ultimately corrupts his actions and fucks everything up.

    He's not evil, he's a crazy person with a damaged notion of moral boundaries and limitless power. He wants to be good, he just legit has no understanding of what that means.
    His rape of Syd, for example. He wants himself to be happy, he wants Syd to be happy. He accomplishes this by erasing her memory - problem solved. Even after it's pointed out that this is despicable behavior, he doesn't get it; moral truths are beyond his capacity to understand.
    I will say I think he’s capable of it, but he’s not there yet. The team was right. He has powers, and he needs help and support because of what his life has done to him. The world is in for a rough ride until he can accept that.

    I hope the next season explores this, wherever the judgment call is made on his ultimate fate. The rehabilitation of David would be compelling as hell if they do it right, and I think they can do whatever they set out to do at this stage.

    Edit: To take this further, I think David’s delusion wasn’t that he deserves love, but that being a good person meant he had a right to do anything to get that love. Without realizing that doing those things meant he might not be a good person any more, no matter how pure his intentions. And he still deserves love, but not without acknowledgment of his actions and what they meant for other people. He’s got to atone.

    Man. I really fucking love this show.

    OneAngryPossum on
  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    i mean... wasnt it fairly clear that david was going to be the bad guy at some point? hes a villain in the comics and hes clearly an ambiguous character as portrayed

    My understanding of him in the comics (having not read them, but only about them) is that he's often less the villain than the antagonist. He does things for what might be understandable reasons, it's just that the very nature of his basically unlimited power ultimately corrupts his actions and fucks everything up.

    He's not evil, he's a crazy person with a damaged notion of moral boundaries and limitless power. He wants to be good, he just legit has no understanding of what that means.
    His rape of Syd, for example. He wants himself to be happy, he wants Syd to be happy. He accomplishes this by erasing her memory - problem solved. Even after it's pointed out that this is despicable behavior, he doesn't get it; moral truths are beyond his capacity to understand.

    well i am perfectly placed to argue with you as i havent read them either

    take that

    obF2Wuw.png
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    Hawley is one of the few major writers I'd trust to write that redemptive arc without it just feeling gross.

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • OneAngryPossumOneAngryPossum Registered User regular
    edited June 2018
    Hawley is one of the few major writers I'd trust to write that redemptive arc without it just feeling gross.

    There are a lot of ways to get it wrong, but the weight they gave David’s actions this episode makes me optimistic.

    OneAngryPossum on
  • FreiFrei A French Prometheus Unbound DeadwoodRegistered User regular
    edited June 2018
    RedTide wrote: »
    Frei wrote: »
    RedTide wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    So we require more information. See the quote from the show runner above.

    Anyway, if they make David the bad guy fuck that, who are we going to root for? People he should obliterate instantly? The SK? Just a bad direction to go.

    You may be doing a thing where you empathize or project a part of yourself onto a fictional character and may be missing or minimizing some terrible shit that has to be dealt with and acknowledged in order for the narrative to make sense.

    I'm calling it Walter White syndrome.

    you might be armchair psychologist-ing, I call it "why act like that?" syndrome. to project a part of myself onto Oliver, Chill, baby, there's no boo-boo here.

    *Clicks pen*

    Yes, now tell me about how Skyler and Syd are the same person and also both the worst...

    I didn't even weigh in on that my dude...

    in the immortal words of Skyler, "Eat your brain? That's disgusting." unless you mean another skyler? i don't read comics, i didn't even know this was a comic book show when i started watching it! just saw noah hawley and opted in because of Fargo.

    Frei on
    Are you the magic man?
  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Frei wrote: »
    RedTide wrote: »
    Frei wrote: »
    RedTide wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    So we require more information. See the quote from the show runner above.

    Anyway, if they make David the bad guy fuck that, who are we going to root for? People he should obliterate instantly? The SK? Just a bad direction to go.

    You may be doing a thing where you empathize or project a part of yourself onto a fictional character and may be missing or minimizing some terrible shit that has to be dealt with and acknowledged in order for the narrative to make sense.

    I'm calling it Walter White syndrome.

    you might be armchair psychologist-ing, I call it "why act like that?" syndrome. to project a part of myself onto Oliver, Chill, baby, there's no boo-boo here.

    *Clicks pen*

    Yes, now tell me about how Skyler and Syd are the same person and also both the worst...

    I didn't even weigh in on that my dude...

    in the immortal words of Skyler, "Eat your brain? That's disgusting." unless you mean another skyler? i don't read comics, i didn't even know this was a comic book show when i started watching it! just saw noah hawley and opted in because of Fargo.

    He's referring to Breaking Bad.

    And I went and looked at some places and boy howdy there's a bunch of people justifying David's actions ala people justifying Walt's right now.

  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Neat comic reference, kinda. It's decades old, but spoilering for fun
    nwev152zt7411.jpg

    Legion blaming Magneto for things he hasn't done yet, and going to kill him for it

  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    If David had that hair he'd deserve everything he'd get.

  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Jragghen wrote: »
    Frei wrote: »
    RedTide wrote: »
    Frei wrote: »
    RedTide wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    So we require more information. See the quote from the show runner above.

    Anyway, if they make David the bad guy fuck that, who are we going to root for? People he should obliterate instantly? The SK? Just a bad direction to go.

    You may be doing a thing where you empathize or project a part of yourself onto a fictional character and may be missing or minimizing some terrible shit that has to be dealt with and acknowledged in order for the narrative to make sense.

    I'm calling it Walter White syndrome.

    you might be armchair psychologist-ing, I call it "why act like that?" syndrome. to project a part of myself onto Oliver, Chill, baby, there's no boo-boo here.

    *Clicks pen*

    Yes, now tell me about how Skyler and Syd are the same person and also both the worst...

    I didn't even weigh in on that my dude...

    in the immortal words of Skyler, "Eat your brain? That's disgusting." unless you mean another skyler? i don't read comics, i didn't even know this was a comic book show when i started watching it! just saw noah hawley and opted in because of Fargo.

    He's referring to Breaking Bad.

    And I went and looked at some places and boy howdy there's a bunch of people justifying David's actions ala people justifying Walt's right now.

    Justifying like "he isn't an irredeemable monster, he can atone," or justifying like "psh, what's the big deal, it ain't all that bad"?

    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Jragghen wrote: »
    Frei wrote: »
    RedTide wrote: »
    Frei wrote: »
    RedTide wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    So we require more information. See the quote from the show runner above.

    Anyway, if they make David the bad guy fuck that, who are we going to root for? People he should obliterate instantly? The SK? Just a bad direction to go.

    You may be doing a thing where you empathize or project a part of yourself onto a fictional character and may be missing or minimizing some terrible shit that has to be dealt with and acknowledged in order for the narrative to make sense.

    I'm calling it Walter White syndrome.

    you might be armchair psychologist-ing, I call it "why act like that?" syndrome. to project a part of myself onto Oliver, Chill, baby, there's no boo-boo here.

    *Clicks pen*

    Yes, now tell me about how Skyler and Syd are the same person and also both the worst...

    I didn't even weigh in on that my dude...

    in the immortal words of Skyler, "Eat your brain? That's disgusting." unless you mean another skyler? i don't read comics, i didn't even know this was a comic book show when i started watching it! just saw noah hawley and opted in because of Fargo.

    He's referring to Breaking Bad.

    And I went and looked at some places and boy howdy there's a bunch of people justifying David's actions ala people justifying Walt's right now.

    Justifying like "he isn't an irredeemable monster, he can atone," or justifying like "psh, what's the big deal, it ain't all that bad"?
    Justifying ala "where does she get off acting like she has a moral high ground?"

    Also a lot of pissing and moaning about how he's still the good guy and it was lazy writing and not in character and not REALLY rape.

    I've come to realize that a lot of people are incapable of seeing bad actions by a protagonist and processing them as bad, just because they're the protagonist.

  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAzwoW5FkFI

    useful intervbiew with dan stevens that talks about some of the things people were wondering

    obF2Wuw.png
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    When you forget he has an accent

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • John C. TurbineJohn C. Turbine Registered User regular
    Some random thoughts on season 2:

    Re: Farouk and the orb:
    Oliver/Farouk appears in the Astral Plane seated at a fortune teller booth with a crystal ball as the focal point; future Syd appears to David revealing his fortune within a spherical object. Probably a deliberate visual reference.

    Re: Farouk's motivations:
    My read is that Farouk is alienating David from Division 3 because, in a twisted way, he's trying to help him. In Farouk's first appearance he tries to persuade David that he's a God, above the concerns of mere mortals. And he's kind of right. How can someone who reads thoughts, controls minds, and alters the fabric of reality ever enjoy a relationship with healthy power dynamics? This is hinted at in Clark's discussion with Syd before she leaves to find David, where he mentions that David could end the world "if you hurt his feelings real bad." I also find it interesting that Farouk's principal emotions toward David appear to be pity and/or sympathy, such as when he begins quietly weeping following his conversation with David about Syd at Division 3. Farouk is the closest thing David has to an equal, probably sees himself as David's mentor, and is probably drawing on his own experiences when he counsels David.

    I think in some ways David's character arc is going to be more similar to Doctor Manhattan than Walter White.

    Re: David and Syd:
    The mouse restoring Syd's memories is a misdirect. Syd has major misgivings about David's character before the finale, (such as when she tells Clark that "he doesn't seem to know right from wrong, he doesn't seem to know what's real and what's not.") During the finale, she asks David to stay away from her after he wipes her memories, then he psychically enters her room and sleeps with her anyway.

    I disagree with assessment's I've read that Syd's character development has been shallow or contradictory. If she seems to have been ambivalent about David it's because she cares about him in spite of her misgivings, and real people act that way. Her "God loves the sinners best" monologue was a plea for him to recognize her as a flawed person with her own agency and motivations rather than as an ideal on a pedestal. Even without the dimension of psychic interference, David's attachment to her is deeply unhealthy and part of her arc this season has been coming to terms with that. I don't think it's an accident that the John Hamm bit about the Allegory of the Cave falls on a Syd-centric episode; the narcissist referred to is David himself.

    Re: Clark:
    Such a great and understated character. I feel like if the show has a moral centre, it's him. (And possibly Carrie/Kerry.) A fragile human squaring off against powerful telepaths solely to protect others. His early scene where he uses regular interview techniques to infer that David is working with Farouk is great. The fact that he continues to work for Division 3 after being horribly maimed and is even willing to work with his attacker for the greater good is a testament to his character. The actor always seems to convey a great amount of emotional intelligence. A perfect foil to David.

    Re: the big "reveal":
    I don't think that David is necessarily crazy. What is the measure of sanity for a potentially world-ending telepath? David perceives and interacts with the world in an utterly inhuman way.

    Overall I feel like the show lost the thread somewhat this season, (the Noah Hawley-directed "bonus" episode was completely unnecessary and a low point,) but the finale was promising enough that I'm back on board for Season 3.

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    did we ever figure about what Oliver was talking about when he said he had a plan for killing Farouk?

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • John C. TurbineJohn C. Turbine Registered User regular
    did we ever figure about what Oliver was talking about when he said he had a plan for killing Farouk?
    My inference was that Oliver intended to kill himself in a moment of lucidity while still hosting Farouk, but that never really materialized.

  • Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    So......
    we still have no idea who kidnapped David for a year in the magic egg, yeah?

    PSN: Canadian_llama
  • StraygatsbyStraygatsby Registered User regular
    I felt like the first half of this season was just gorgeous from a production standpoint, but I grew increasingly bored with it when they tried to shoehorn in, you know, plot. The Shadow King turned out to be a hell of a compelling character, though. I'd go so far as to say he's one of my favorite from any recent comic-booky production.

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    Disco11 wrote: »
    So......
    we still have no idea who kidnapped David for a year in the magic egg, yeah?
    future division 3

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    Disco11 wrote: »
    So......
    we still have no idea who kidnapped David for a year in the magic egg, yeah?
    future division 3

    Anyone have any theory how that plays in with all the other Timey-whimey stuff?

    PSN: Canadian_llama
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    edited June 2018
    Disco11 wrote: »
    Disco11 wrote: »
    So......
    we still have no idea who kidnapped David for a year in the magic egg, yeah?
    future division 3

    Anyone have any theory how that plays in with all the other Timey-whimey stuff?
    I think they made multiple attempts to influence David before the stuff with older Syd, including imprisoning him.

    Styrofoam Sammich on
    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • cptruggedcptrugged I think it has something to do with free will. Registered User regular
    edited June 2018
    That finale was so amazing. The use of music absolutely blew me away.

    I know this show isn't for everyone with it's weird storytelling methods. But I absolutely adore it.

    cptrugged on
  • Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    cptrugged wrote: »
    That finale was so amazing. The use of music absolutely blew me away.

    I know this show isn't for everyone with it's weird storytelling methods. But I absolutely adore it.

    Loved the show and apart from the opening sequece I truly did not like the finale.

    Feels like everyone's motivations and character shift to fit the story.

    PSN: Canadian_llama
  • OneAngryPossumOneAngryPossum Registered User regular
    edited June 2018
    Disco11 wrote: »
    cptrugged wrote: »
    That finale was so amazing. The use of music absolutely blew me away.

    I know this show isn't for everyone with it's weird storytelling methods. But I absolutely adore it.

    Loved the show and apart from the opening sequece I truly did not like the finale.

    Feels like everyone's motivations and character shift to fit the story.

    I think you’d be surprised if you go back and watch the first season. My wife and I just finished doing so, and it’s actually kind of shocking how much of this was hinted at/stated outright ahead of time.

    OneAngryPossum on
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    I thought the first season was the best show on television. The second season started amazing, but sometimes seemed to be obtuse for the sake of being obtuse. I still always enjoyed it though (except for the Syd episode, which was just bad), and overall it was still quite good with moments of brilliance.

    At this point, I'd watch it just for the visuals and style, but I hope it returns to first season levels. Because the back half of season one is up there with my favorite television ever. I seriously think the the sequence with Lenny as a silent film villain was one of the absolute best moments on TV.

    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    For the record, I think
    All the mouse did was let Syd know what David did to her. He fucked with her mind because he was terrified that she didn’t love him any more, and then he date raped her. She was scared in that scene, and rightfully so. David crossed so many boundaries, personal and power-wise. She wanted to be alone, and this all powerful being showed up to tell her what they should do while she tried to figure out what was wrong with herself.

    Farouk being free threw me a bit, but I think David’s actions (witnessed by multiple people before Farouk short circuited his crown to minimally access his powers) convinced the team he needed to be dealt with. They didn’t want to kill David, they wanted to help, but if things went wrong the end of the world was on the line. The shadow king essentially gets brought in as an insurance policy. I don’t doubt he manipulated them, but less than many want to believe. He showed them the truth, even if it was to serve his own interests.

    They made David’s actions, no matter how vile, tragically understandable. My wife and I are starting a rewatch, and it’s heartbreaking. David really does put his entire concept of reality on to the need for Syd’s love. He loses that and he’s terrified, he doesn’t want to be lonely again, but he does something monstrous instead of facing reality.

    I love that the show’s crew had the guts and talent to take this direction and make it so tragic. I enjoyed every episode of this season, but the end result was truly something magnificent to behold, and it absolutely addressed every concern I had along the way.

    I’m still a little euphoric about things even a day later (we rewatched it tonight, even!), but I can’t emphasize enough how special I think this show is. It’s got my full faith moving forward.

    The reveal of the bolded really recontextualized:
    something that irked me about the Future Syd / David dynamic.

    When he tries to respect Syd's feelings by not cheating on her with Future Syd; and FS kind of blatantly disregards his half hearted protests and uses sex to persuade him in a very obvious manner. It seemed like clumsy writing.

    Thinking back on it: FS already knew that David's current reality hinged on one single fact:
    He only mattered because Syd loved him.

    She knew he was terrifying, but she also knew his romantic delusion gave her absolute power over him if she batted her eyes hard enough.

    And she knew that she wasn't doing past Syd any favors by respecting the sanctity of her relationship with a guy who was only a few days from outing himself as a monster.

    Reflecting on that scene now, it works really well.

    Random thing i liked this season:

    Metaphysical car mechanic scene.

    But it was all pretty great.

  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    cptrugged wrote: »
    That finale was so amazing. The use of music absolutely blew me away.

    I know this show isn't for everyone with it's weird storytelling methods. But I absolutely adore it.

    The abstract / avant garde nature of the narrative and variety of visual styles lets it do more with a lot less. I love it.

    In any other show that battle just looks bad, and/or can't be as ambitious. But Legion primes you to accept pretty much whatever motif they feel like throwing at you, so it works.

  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    For the record, I think
    All the mouse did was let Syd know what David did to her. He fucked with her mind because he was terrified that she didn’t love him any more, and then he date raped her. She was scared in that scene, and rightfully so. David crossed so many boundaries, personal and power-wise. She wanted to be alone, and this all powerful being showed up to tell her what they should do while she tried to figure out what was wrong with herself.

    Farouk being free threw me a bit, but I think David’s actions (witnessed by multiple people before Farouk short circuited his crown to minimally access his powers) convinced the team he needed to be dealt with. They didn’t want to kill David, they wanted to help, but if things went wrong the end of the world was on the line. The shadow king essentially gets brought in as an insurance policy. I don’t doubt he manipulated them, but less than many want to believe. He showed them the truth, even if it was to serve his own interests.

    They made David’s actions, no matter how vile, tragically understandable. My wife and I are starting a rewatch, and it’s heartbreaking. David really does put his entire concept of reality on to the need for Syd’s love. He loses that and he’s terrified, he doesn’t want to be lonely again, but he does something monstrous instead of facing reality.

    I love that the show’s crew had the guts and talent to take this direction and make it so tragic. I enjoyed every episode of this season, but the end result was truly something magnificent to behold, and it absolutely addressed every concern I had along the way.

    I’m still a little euphoric about things even a day later (we rewatched it tonight, even!), but I can’t emphasize enough how special I think this show is. It’s got my full faith moving forward.

    The reveal of the bolded really recontextualized:
    something that irked me about the Future Syd / David dynamic.

    When he tries to respect Syd's feelings by not cheating on her with Future Syd; and FS kind of blatantly disregards his half hearted protests and uses sex to persuade him in a very obvious manner. It seemed like clumsy writing.

    Thinking back on it: FS already knew that David's current reality hinged on one single fact:
    He only mattered because Syd loved him.

    She knew he was terrifying, but she also knew his romantic delusion gave her absolute power over him if she batted her eyes hard enough.

    And she knew that she wasn't doing past Syd any favors by respecting the sanctity of her relationship with a guy who was only a few days from outing himself as a monster.

    Reflecting on that scene now, it works really well.

    Random thing i liked this season:

    Metaphysical car mechanic scene.

    But it was all pretty great.

    If they wanted to "out" David as a "monster" they failed spectacularly. Everyone one of them is worse than David atm!

  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    For the record, I think
    All the mouse did was let Syd know what David did to her. He fucked with her mind because he was terrified that she didn’t love him any more, and then he date raped her. She was scared in that scene, and rightfully so. David crossed so many boundaries, personal and power-wise. She wanted to be alone, and this all powerful being showed up to tell her what they should do while she tried to figure out what was wrong with herself.

    Farouk being free threw me a bit, but I think David’s actions (witnessed by multiple people before Farouk short circuited his crown to minimally access his powers) convinced the team he needed to be dealt with. They didn’t want to kill David, they wanted to help, but if things went wrong the end of the world was on the line. The shadow king essentially gets brought in as an insurance policy. I don’t doubt he manipulated them, but less than many want to believe. He showed them the truth, even if it was to serve his own interests.

    They made David’s actions, no matter how vile, tragically understandable. My wife and I are starting a rewatch, and it’s heartbreaking. David really does put his entire concept of reality on to the need for Syd’s love. He loses that and he’s terrified, he doesn’t want to be lonely again, but he does something monstrous instead of facing reality.

    I love that the show’s crew had the guts and talent to take this direction and make it so tragic. I enjoyed every episode of this season, but the end result was truly something magnificent to behold, and it absolutely addressed every concern I had along the way.

    I’m still a little euphoric about things even a day later (we rewatched it tonight, even!), but I can’t emphasize enough how special I think this show is. It’s got my full faith moving forward.

    The reveal of the bolded really recontextualized:
    something that irked me about the Future Syd / David dynamic.

    When he tries to respect Syd's feelings by not cheating on her with Future Syd; and FS kind of blatantly disregards his half hearted protests and uses sex to persuade him in a very obvious manner. It seemed like clumsy writing.

    Thinking back on it: FS already knew that David's current reality hinged on one single fact:
    He only mattered because Syd loved him.

    She knew he was terrifying, but she also knew his romantic delusion gave her absolute power over him if she batted her eyes hard enough.

    And she knew that she wasn't doing past Syd any favors by respecting the sanctity of her relationship with a guy who was only a few days from outing himself as a monster.

    Reflecting on that scene now, it works really well.

    Random thing i liked this season:

    Metaphysical car mechanic scene.

    But it was all pretty great.

    If they wanted to "out" David as a "monster" they failed spectacularly. Everyone one of them is worse than David atm!

    Let's say outed "to her," then, as she was certainly convinced of it.

  • WhiteZinfandelWhiteZinfandel Your insides Let me show you themRegistered User regular
    cptrugged wrote: »
    That finale was so amazing. The use of music absolutely blew me away.

    I know this show isn't for everyone with it's weird storytelling methods. But I absolutely adore it.

    The abstract / avant garde nature of the narrative and variety of visual styles lets it do more with a lot less. I love it.

    In any other show that battle just looks bad, and/or can't be as ambitious. But Legion primes you to accept pretty much whatever motif they feel like throwing at you, so it works.

    Oh yeah. As I was watching that scene, rapt, a part of me chimed in with "I would think this was so fucking stupid if it was the first I ever saw of Legion."

    That's basically what happened with me and Fringe, in fact. My first exposure to it was walking in on Walter's line about hormonal teens taking ritalin creating the perfect mind control cocktail! or somesuch. It was years before I realized that Fringe is actually great and that was literally the single worst line in the entire show I could have walked in on without context.

  • RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    For the record, I think
    All the mouse did was let Syd know what David did to her. He fucked with her mind because he was terrified that she didn’t love him any more, and then he date raped her. She was scared in that scene, and rightfully so. David crossed so many boundaries, personal and power-wise. She wanted to be alone, and this all powerful being showed up to tell her what they should do while she tried to figure out what was wrong with herself.

    Farouk being free threw me a bit, but I think David’s actions (witnessed by multiple people before Farouk short circuited his crown to minimally access his powers) convinced the team he needed to be dealt with. They didn’t want to kill David, they wanted to help, but if things went wrong the end of the world was on the line. The shadow king essentially gets brought in as an insurance policy. I don’t doubt he manipulated them, but less than many want to believe. He showed them the truth, even if it was to serve his own interests.

    They made David’s actions, no matter how vile, tragically understandable. My wife and I are starting a rewatch, and it’s heartbreaking. David really does put his entire concept of reality on to the need for Syd’s love. He loses that and he’s terrified, he doesn’t want to be lonely again, but he does something monstrous instead of facing reality.

    I love that the show’s crew had the guts and talent to take this direction and make it so tragic. I enjoyed every episode of this season, but the end result was truly something magnificent to behold, and it absolutely addressed every concern I had along the way.

    I’m still a little euphoric about things even a day later (we rewatched it tonight, even!), but I can’t emphasize enough how special I think this show is. It’s got my full faith moving forward.

    The reveal of the bolded really recontextualized:
    something that irked me about the Future Syd / David dynamic.

    When he tries to respect Syd's feelings by not cheating on her with Future Syd; and FS kind of blatantly disregards his half hearted protests and uses sex to persuade him in a very obvious manner. It seemed like clumsy writing.

    Thinking back on it: FS already knew that David's current reality hinged on one single fact:
    He only mattered because Syd loved him.

    She knew he was terrifying, but she also knew his romantic delusion gave her absolute power over him if she batted her eyes hard enough.

    And she knew that she wasn't doing past Syd any favors by respecting the sanctity of her relationship with a guy who was only a few days from outing himself as a monster.

    Reflecting on that scene now, it works really well.

    Random thing i liked this season:

    Metaphysical car mechanic scene.

    But it was all pretty great.

    If they wanted to "out" David as a "monster" they failed spectacularly. Everyone one of them is worse than David atm!

    There are two mass murdering, one likely one confirmed rapists on the show.

    One of them you are told is going to end the world and the other one your only likely check against that.

    Somehow you, the other characters are collectively worse then both of them.

    David is either unmoored from conventional morality due to his power like Farouk or doesn't even comprehend it well enough to know what he is doing due to mental illness. He is the problem.

    RedTide#1907 on Battle.net
    Come Overwatch with meeeee
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