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[Legion] on FX: Season 2 is finished - beware open spoilers

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  • navgoosenavgoose Registered User regular
    David is a psychic reality-altering mutant. His mental problems may or may not be part of the mutation and are certainly capable of manifesting into reality.

    Also the minotaur was both a mental construct and a real thing. The Shadow King has made a few of these besides the minotaur, like the delusion monster and the pit guardians.

  • akajaybayakajaybay Registered User regular
    I think one, probably comics reading based misconception I had was that the reality bending powers, turning people to dust with a finger snap, was a power the shadow king had access to because David was incredibly powerful. And while David was mostly unaware of how to harness those abilities, when he had free reign the SK could do those thing using David's powers better than he could have himself. Once he was in Oliver he was still doing it. Turning people into fish. Like I know Oliver was a strong telepath, but in the first season it felt like no one was supposed to be on that crazy level that David was. But yeah, then you had the giant monster delusion, the plug and hole with random guardians and a actual Minotaur. Instead of having those things being people's perception of events or telepathic projections etc.

  • WhiteZinfandelWhiteZinfandel Your insides Let me show you themRegistered User regular
    akajaybay wrote: »
    I think one, probably comics reading based misconception I had was that the reality bending powers, turning people to dust with a finger snap, was a power the shadow king had access to because David was incredibly powerful. And while David was mostly unaware of how to harness those abilities, when he had free reign the SK could do those thing using David's powers better than he could have himself. Once he was in Oliver he was still doing it. Turning people into fish. Like I know Oliver was a strong telepath, but in the first season it felt like no one was supposed to be on that crazy level that David was. But yeah, then you had the giant monster delusion, the plug and hole with random guardians and a actual Minotaur. Instead of having those things being people's perception of events or telepathic projections etc.

    When Farouk was in Kerry's body, he had telekinesis. My best guess is that the SK has his powers regardless of body, but his strength varies with his host's mutant abilities and compatibility. That kind of conflicts with what Vermillion said about his power being genetic and of the body but... maybe Vermillion was just wrong?

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    akajaybay wrote: »
    I think one, probably comics reading based misconception I had was that the reality bending powers, turning people to dust with a finger snap, was a power the shadow king had access to because David was incredibly powerful. And while David was mostly unaware of how to harness those abilities, when he had free reign the SK could do those thing using David's powers better than he could have himself. Once he was in Oliver he was still doing it. Turning people into fish. Like I know Oliver was a strong telepath, but in the first season it felt like no one was supposed to be on that crazy level that David was. But yeah, then you had the giant monster delusion, the plug and hole with random guardians and a actual Minotaur. Instead of having those things being people's perception of events or telepathic projections etc.

    When Farouk was in Kerry's body, he had telekinesis. My best guess is that the SK has his powers regardless of body, but his strength varies with his host's mutant abilities and compatibility. That kind of conflicts with what Vermillion said about his power being genetic and of the body but... maybe Vermillion was just wrong?

    If I remember right they also say that while his powers are genetic his mind is still extremely powerful on its own. Its just reunited with his genetic mutations that he's at full strength.

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  • BethrynBethryn Unhappiness is Mandatory Registered User regular
    ...and of course, as always, Kill Hitler.
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Fuck yes.

    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
  • OneAngryPossumOneAngryPossum Registered User regular
    This show continues to be fucking incredible, over and over and over again.

  • JonBobJonBob Registered User regular
    This opener makes me very optimistic about the coming season.

    jswidget.php?username=JonBob&numitems=10&header=1&text=none&images=small&show=recentplays&imagesonly=1&imagepos=right&inline=1&domains%5B%5D=boardgame&imagewidget=1
  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    Missed the start of the new season. I didn't finish the last season.

  • OneAngryPossumOneAngryPossum Registered User regular
    edited June 2019
    Krathoon wrote: »
    Missed the start of the new season. I didn't finish the last season.

    I think the finale of last season was the best episode of TV for the year, and quite possibly more than that. It’s a damn shame it got overlooked as much as it did.

    There’s basically nothing operating with this much creativity and thoughtfulness besides Legion and Atlanta.

    Edit: For all that comic books have taken over pop culture for the last decade+, Legion is the possibly the only thing that genuinely feels like it understood the freedom that comic books offer for story structure and strong visuals. And they had the chops to deliver a strong story on top of that, which is maybe the most shocking thing. Things I wrote off along the way as just creative flourishes ultimately get explained thematically if not literally, which blew my mind when I rewatched the first season.

    Edit edit: I really, really like Legion.

    OneAngryPossum on
  • BethrynBethryn Unhappiness is Mandatory Registered User regular
    Division 3 looking increasingly fascist.

    ...and of course, as always, Kill Hitler.
  • OneAngryPossumOneAngryPossum Registered User regular
    Bethryn wrote: »
    Division 3 looking increasingly fascist.
    It’s really becoming a situation where nobody coming out on top looks like a good option.

    David’s retreated to his cult where he can use his powers to drug people into happiness and feel like he’s a good person for doing so while ignoring his horrible mistakes and the threat he represents. Division 3 is an increasingly terrifying robot kill force.

  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    It is funny how Legion says he is a good person, but he has done some horrible stuff. It was to bad guys, but still.

  • OneAngryPossumOneAngryPossum Registered User regular
    edited June 2019
    Krathoon wrote: »
    It is funny how Legion says he is a good person, but he has done some horrible stuff. It was to bad guys, but still.

    It’s what he’s done to Syd that’s made him, if not unredeemable, a clear threat. He violated her boundaries intentionally and in spite of her protests, and essentially date raped her at the end of last season. And that’s the one person he really loved and that kept him grounded, who could tell him not to do something immoral just because he was capable of it and thought he knew best.

    My wife and I watched the first episode of the show again last night, and the hints of his arc are already there - Syd tells him not to touch her multiple times, and he just keeps pushing it. He tries to kiss her and she recoils, so he backs off for a while. But the next time he sees her he kisses her immediately while she’s mentally telling him no, and he hears it, but he does it anyway.

    It’s driven by something deeply sympathetic - he’s suffered a lot in his life, he has extreme self-doubt about his worth, and all he wants is to feel that he deserves love. But at the end of last season he goes from believing that he’s capable of being loved to believing that he’s entitled to love. And when he’s denied it, when he has to question whether he might not be a good person after all, he decides that everybody else is wrong. He doesn’t want to be a better person, he wants everybody to believe he’s already a good person because he’s had to try so hard and he’s lost so much. So he flips and is now completely untethered from anything, an extremely volatile threat to the entire world who only trusts himself.

    They spent two seasons humanizing a living nuclear arsenal, and it’s incredible. Breaking Bad gets a lot of credit for Walter’s arc, but Walt was always an asshole, just a sympathetic one (I loved that show too, mind you).

    Legion took a naive, troubled kid who you just want to find his way, and led him to something like evil just because he wanted something as fundamental as love. It’s tragic as hell.

    Edit: Also, it’s kind of amusing just how scary David is when you aren’t 100% on his side. He brushes threats away so casually and with such obvious glee, and while he blames Farouk for it, he still loves flaunting his power all on his own.

    OneAngryPossum on
  • WhiteZinfandelWhiteZinfandel Your insides Let me show you themRegistered User regular
    edited June 2019
    In spite of myself, I'm like 90% on David's side. Dan Stevens might be too likable. I had the same reaction while watching The Guest.

    WhiteZinfandel on
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    How did something this good ever get made?

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  • OneAngryPossumOneAngryPossum Registered User regular
    edited July 2019
    How did something this good ever get made?

    I’m shocked that not only was it made, but it’s continuously gotten weirder and more experimental with its storytelling.

    Single best byproduct of the superhero craze.

    Last night’s episode was another peak.
    Lenny watching her child live an entire life in a handful of moments was genuinely horrifying, as is the notion that the kid literally only lived during those moments.

    Also appreciated drawing the hard contrast between Syd and David. Syd’s reconciling with and literally embracing her past, learning from it and finding value. David is literally repeating the exact same steps over and over again expecting a different result until he declares that it’s not real and uses his powers to force another creature into submission.

    This is the best show.

    OneAngryPossum on
  • DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    What I've really like is that each season has had it's own sort of unique style of weird if that makes sense.

    They are all bizarre but in slightly different ways with a different vibe that you can feel throughout the season.

  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    How did something this good ever get made?

    I'm going to guess we have FX's ill-considered desire to have a streaming service to thank.

    If they cancelled Legion or told the show runners "No," would they even have anything to fill the gaps between Always Sunny and AHS?

    *Googles*

    https://www.engadget.com/2019/07/14/disney-fx-plus-shutdown/

    I... uh. Well that's not good.

    I really hope I didn't just Murphy's law that.

  • WhiteZinfandelWhiteZinfandel Your insides Let me show you themRegistered User regular
    How did something this good ever get made?

    I’m shocked that not only was it made, but it’s continuously gotten weirder and more experimental with its storytelling.

    Single best byproduct of the superhero craze.

    Last night’s episode was another peak.
    Lenny watching her child live an entire life in a handful of moments was genuinely horrifying, as is the notion that the kid literally only lived during those moments.

    Also appreciated drawing the hard contrast between Syd and David. Syd’s reconciling with and literally embracing her past, learning from it and finding value. David is literally repeating the exact same steps over and over again expecting a different result until he declares that it’s not real and uses his powers to force another creature into submission.

    This is the best show.
    I think you're shortchanging David here. His analogue to Sydney's compassionate conversation wasn't his use of his powers, it was clasping his mother's hands, comforting her, and trying to help her to make things better. The counterpart to David's bullheadedness and violence was Sydney writhing around on the floor helpless and dying. I'm pretty sure she would have done the exact same thing as him if she could.

    That said, he's more sympathetic and tragic than villainous but still pretty obviously dangerous and unhinged. "No one who hates me is real" and "I am God" are way out there.

    Also, hoo boy was that Sydney/Young Sydney conversation about powers rape allegory hard to watch.

  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    Basically this is all just a giant retcon all around. Fuck Division 3, it's pretty much all their fault.
    Shadow King is just swapping places with David because that's the kind of monster he is I guess!

    "I just wanted to feel something." as she walks naked into the shower...riiiiight, she's not 5.

    David can fuck them all up if he wants, instead he tries to fix everything Division 3 has screwed up so royally, but of course time cats. Fucking cats.

    The writers want to make David tragic and wrong so bad so we have no one to root for.

  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    edited July 2019
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Basically this is all just a giant retcon all around. Fuck Division 3, it's pretty much all their fault.
    Shadow King is just swapping places with David because that's the kind of monster he is I guess!

    "I just wanted to feel something." as she walks naked into the shower...riiiiight, she's not 5.

    David can fuck them all up if he wants, instead he tries to fix everything Division 3 has screwed up so royally, but of course time cats. Fucking cats.

    The writers want to make David tragic and wrong so bad so we have no one to root for.
    If she's lying to herself, you have to at least appreciate the commitment of her lying to herself.

    ArbitraryDescriptor on
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited July 2019
    I really want to start the new season, but I remembered like fuckall about the show, and it's kind of convoluted anyway, so I'm going back and rewatching the whole series.

    Which isn't a bad thing, because this show is fantastic, but I really want to watch season 3.

    I also want a Lenny spinoff. I don't know what it would be about, I don't even care, just more Lenny plz.

    ElJeffe on
    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Basically this is all just a giant retcon all around. Fuck Division 3, it's pretty much all their fault.
    Shadow King is just swapping places with David because that's the kind of monster he is I guess!

    "I just wanted to feel something." as she walks naked into the shower...riiiiight, she's not 5.

    David can fuck them all up if he wants, instead he tries to fix everything Division 3 has screwed up so royally, but of course time cats. Fucking cats.

    The writers want to make David tragic and wrong so bad so we have no one to root for.
    If she's lying to herself, you have to at least appreciate the commitment of her lying to herself.

    Or the writers, anyway.

    Plus it doesn't make it any better, but it seemed they wanted it to.

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    Last two episodes have been exceptionally good

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  • OneAngryPossumOneAngryPossum Registered User regular
    edited July 2019
    Last two episodes have been exceptionally good

    David is one of the most sympathetic “villainous” characters I’ve ever come across. These last couple episodes were just haunting and tragic, and, as always, beautiful, fun, and inventive as hell.

    And good god that musical number last night.

    Edit: My wife and I watched the first season waaaay back thinking it was well-acted and well-designed but probably gibberish to justify amazing style. I am still so happy and so surprised that the creators actually knew what they were doing the whole time. I never expected to actually care about these characters.

    OneAngryPossum on
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    Last two episodes have been exceptionally good

    David is one of the most sympathetic “villainous” characters I’ve ever come across. These last couple episodes were just haunting and tragic, and, as always, beautiful, fun, and inventive as hell.

    And good god that musical number last night.

    Theyve threaded the needle of "no one is a good person and theyre all sympathetic" perfectly.

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • OneAngryPossumOneAngryPossum Registered User regular
    edited July 2019
    Last two episodes have been exceptionally good

    David is one of the most sympathetic “villainous” characters I’ve ever come across. These last couple episodes were just haunting and tragic, and, as always, beautiful, fun, and inventive as hell.

    And good god that musical number last night.

    Theyve threaded the needle of "no one is a good person and theyre all sympathetic" perfectly.

    Every time somebody crosses a new line they take a moment to help you understand how the character feels about it, and it’s gut-wrenching. That bit last week with David and his mother:
    I have no idea how ‘real’ any of it was, but when she tells him that she’s mentally ill and he just won’t hear it because that would mean maybe he’s got problems he can’t blame on anybody else... that seriously broke my heart. He wants so much to believe that he didn’t really hurt anybody and that he’s a good person even as his behavior gets worse and worse and less and less forgivable.

    And the Division folks increasingly crossing their own lines (they just locked Switch in a box and put her to sleep when she came along willingly) because fuck, what can they do, there’s a world-ending force out there that might snap at any moment.

    These people, for all the weirdness that is this show, are just so human.

    OneAngryPossum on
  • TetraRayTetraRay Registered User regular
    Psychic Battles are done so well in this show, just the best.

    Steam ID: TetraRay
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    I just started season 3, yaaaay!

    I really like Switch, and the time travel angle seems compelling.

    Also:
    "I need to test his reflexes."
    *punch*

    "They suck."

    Was great.

    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
  • DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Basically this is all just a giant retcon all around. Fuck Division 3, it's pretty much all their fault.
    Shadow King is just swapping places with David because that's the kind of monster he is I guess!

    "I just wanted to feel something." as she walks naked into the shower...riiiiight, she's not 5.

    David can fuck them all up if he wants, instead he tries to fix everything Division 3 has screwed up so royally, but of course time cats. Fucking cats.

    The writers want to make David tragic and wrong so bad so we have no one to root for.
    If she's lying to herself, you have to at least appreciate the commitment of her lying to herself.

    Or the writers, anyway.

    Plus it doesn't make it any better, but it seemed they wanted it to.

    Yea the one line from the scene felt just... bad honestly.
    It felt like the whoever wrote that line about "power" just thought they had something more thought provoking than they really did. Maybe it was supposed to be the character that thought that. It was hard to tell but the line was really silly. Like, maybe he turned her around because that's one of the few semi comfortable ways to actually have sex standing up?

    But that small blip aside, this season is still giving and giving.

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    RAAAAAFI BOMB

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  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited August 2019
    Time Cats are fucking terrifying.

    Everything about that episode was so fantastically weird and creative and a spot-on way of portraying time stuff.

    Episode 5, meanwhile, was just gut wrenching.
    LENNY NOOOO

    CLARK NOOOO

    SYD NOOOO

    ElJeffe on
    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Hahaha, holy shit, episode 6.
    Jason Mantzoukas vs Jermaine Clement in a rap battle is what I never knew I always wanted.

    Also: "That's like me saying 'stop nerding.'

    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    so are the time cats legally distinct version of the Blue Meanies from the Yellow Submarine?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2uTFF_3MaA

    hey, look at that, they go back in time in the cartoon too...

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    Music/Dance as stand in for psychic battle is inspired

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  • OneAngryPossumOneAngryPossum Registered User regular
    Music/Dance as stand in for psychic battle is inspired

    I read someone years ago who pointed out that comic books and musicals actually share a lot of structural elements - the biggest one being that when the emotions get too big, you either break out into song or put on a costume.

  • WhiteZinfandelWhiteZinfandel Your insides Let me show you themRegistered User regular
    Damn I love this show, even as it does things I don't like with David. Halfway through episode 6 Oliver says "There's only one way this can end." and my immediate thought was "IN DANCE!" Close enough. Episode 5 was intense but episode 6 is equally whimsical and abstract. It's pretty impressive how they've taken Jason Mantzoukas being Jason Mantzoukas and made him seem both perfectly appropriate for the context and even menacing.

  • JonBobJonBob Registered User regular
    It's interesting that I'm suddenly viewing Charles as the main character, and David as just an obstacle he needs to overcome.

    jswidget.php?username=JonBob&numitems=10&header=1&text=none&images=small&show=recentplays&imagesonly=1&imagepos=right&inline=1&domains%5B%5D=boardgame&imagewidget=1
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    He does sort of become the protagonist by default in the absence of anyone else who fits that role this season. The outcome of the story is very unpredictable because I have no idea who is supposed to win.

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