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[World of Darkness] V:TM 5E, Tremere still bottom tier.

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Posts

  • The Hanged ManThe Hanged Man Once I ate a pizza so big, they gave me a prize. Then I threw up and they took it back.Registered User regular
    I think it's probably best if I stop fighting that battle. The C20 book is here, it's quite nice all things considered, and I don't need to devote any more energy to being angry at these people. It's over, so don't worry about it.

    TUMBLR: canstthoudrawoutleviathan.tumblr.com
    TWITTER: @DesertLeviathan, PSN: LeviathanAscends
    3DS: 1590-4800-2407, SWITCH: SW-3925-2368-8101
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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Never do what your enemy expects you to do! Registered User regular
    Vampire 5th preorders start on the 28th. Will launch with the corebook and the camarilla and anarch sourcebooks. (And dice, storyteller screen, etc.)

    Release at Gencon, on store shelves in September.

  • BrainleechBrainleech Registered User regular
    Is it more of the VTM clans or the VTR ones?

    A.jpg
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Never do what your enemy expects you to do! Registered User regular
    Brainleech wrote: »
    Is it more of the VTM clans or the VTR ones?

    It's the literal 5th edition of Vampire: the Masquerade.

  • DelduwathDelduwath Registered User regular
    edited July 9
    I just read a fairly lengthy and thorough article expressing - and backing up - the point of view that the new incarnation of White Wolf is knowingly marketing Vampire 5th Edition towards the various flavors of alt-right:
    http://www.dogwithdice.com/whitewolfaredead/
    (The author makes it clear that they are not saying that the people at White Wolf are Nazis; rather, that they are strategically and intentionally making their product appealing to Nazis, presumably because they've decided that that's the financially-sound market to chase.)

    I didn't know most of this stuff (other than the Zak S thing) because while I love the setting, I'm not really hooked into the community. It's... pretty disheartening to read. Given the wealth of evidence, I find it hard to disagree with the author.

    Delduwath on
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Never do what your enemy expects you to do! Registered User regular
    edited July 9
    Oh wow. There's some shit in there I didn't even have a clue about. While the framing could ultimately just be one of opinion, the hiring and retaining of several actively shitty individuals absolutely is not. I was already out on the new White-Wolf's stuff just based on what they had talked about (some of which is represented in the "edgelord" stuff), but good lord that doesn't paint a pretty picture of the overall direction of the company.

    I'm curious if they'll do a similar thing with Werewolf, or if they'll take the already liberal environmentalism themes and expand on them towards basically making it an "anti-nazi" game.

    Thank you very much for posting that!

    Undead Scottsman on
  • ToxTox I kill threads Punch DimensionRegistered User regular
    Now I'm torn because that is shitty and shittiness very much needs to be punished and so I don't want that to sell very well but also if it doesn't they're less likely to do Werewolf and less likely to spend money on it if they do make it, which means both of those things are even less likely to be true for Mage

    Sigh.

    Wishlists! General | Gaming | Comics | Dilige, et quod vis fac
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    Well... Mage is the redheaded stepchild of the big 3, so I guess it's safe?

    9LlOwgn.png
    Well, good morning. Welcome to the new scenario. What should we do today?
  • KadokenKadoken I'm an adult I am going to shoot this mystery with my pistol of deduction -Sherlock Holmes (Scott Benson)Registered User regular
    What does that make Hunter?

  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Never do what your enemy expects you to do! Registered User regular
    Kadoken wrote: »
    What does that make Hunter?

    Not one of the big three?

    ToxLanlaornMrVyngaard
  • AssuranAssuran Is swinging on the Spiral Registered User regular
    Sigh.

    I love Paradox (owners of WW), so I just can't comprehend the string of events that led us down the path to where I am strongly thinking about not buying 5th Edition of one of my 3 favorite RPG's of all time.

    Elldren
  • DelduwathDelduwath Registered User regular
    edited July 10
    I'm curious if they'll do a similar thing with Werewolf, or if they'll take the already liberal environmentalism themes and expand on them towards basically making it an "anti-nazi" game.
    That's an interesting thought. I don't think that informed liberal environmentalists would want to buy a game by a company that's also making Nazi: The Fantasying, but I suppose there'd be lots of people who don't know the nitty-gritty and might pick up such a product thinking "Oh cool, you get to wolf out on some Nazis, sweet."

    (The alt-rights kids almost certainly wouldn't care, because they'll think "Oh, that's just a capitalist maneuver to suck money out of those chumps, we all know who White Wolf really loves *wink*")

    As I was reading that article, I was reduced to stunned silence that there's a human person in this world who believes that the way to fight Nazis is to allow them beat you (presumably to death), and that refusing to allow this is cowardly - although a part of me was thinking "Are you surprised, though? Are you really?".

    Delduwath on
    Jeep-Eep
  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    You guys need to actually read the article, it's just terrible clickbait.

    The author is constantly reaching for points, he starts off saying because the cover art is more sexualized than the old austere ankh that means it's marketing to Nazis (I guess the 80s sourcebook New Wave Requiem is super fascist then, lol). Does anyone else really think that? Can no one else think of a reason they might want to make the cover of their Vampire RPG more sexy/romantic, especially in a post-Twilight world?

    It gets worse from there, completely devoid of content from the new addition, he alleges
    - The "Second Inquisition" hunting vampires is an allegory for Jewish cabals that "run the world" persecuting nazis
    - The alpha playtest didn't include any Humanity rules, so this means the game is marketed towards Nazis
    - The alpha playtest uses the word "triggered" to describe something so this means the game is marketed towards Nazis
    - The Changeling: the Dreaming pregen character pack has negative reviews on Drive Thru RPG so this means V5 is marketed towards Nazis
    - They hired Zak Sabbath, a person involved in the gamergate controversy, so this means the game is marketed towards Nazis
    - They hired Mark Rein-Hagen, the founder and lead developer of the original VtM, who appraently has some right wing views, so this means the game is marketed towards Nazis (but the original game he had much, much more influence on wasn't because...?)
    - A quote says Brujah anti-establishment types could be anyone, a con man, a neo-nazi, a kid downloading movies, etc. and because it is even mentioned as a possibility, this means the game is marketed towards Nazis
    - The creative lead, Martin Ericcson, argues about this online saying that they comment on the current state of the world, describing the increase in far right activity as a problem akin to "wealth concentration, religious fanaticism, persecution of minorities, etc.", his opponent argues that including the possibility of playing as an alt-right character is inherently wrong and has this incredible counter argument "If you write a game where you describe a dark-skinned race of elves as intrinsically evil... you are answerable to black people who immediately recognize it as continuing their oppression" (next article: D&D is racist), and this argument on an online forum where the White Wolf guy looks cogent and his opponent grasps at straws means the game is marketed towards Nazis.


    The only parts of this I consider even briefly flirting with a solid argument is if you think that Mark Rein-Hagen and Zak Sabbath should be denied work because of their political views and anything they touch much be boycotted. But to that point, those are minor figures on the project and the leaders are apparently all members of Sweden's ultra left parties (Feminist Initiative and something called V) so this also seems badly like reaching. And didn't D&D 5E hire this Zak guy also? I recall reading the same outrage before, does this mean D&D is marketed towards Nazis as well?

    Honestly guys, this is basically a conspiracy theory, it's desperately trying to cobble together an argument out of nothing, and I'm sure it's earning the author a lot of clicks from Facebook but I truly regret having read this article. The entire time he keeps saying "and well this so far doesn't mean anything but wait there's more!" and then at the end there's still nothing substantive.

  • DelduwathDelduwath Registered User regular
    Lanlaorn wrote: »
    You guys need to actually read the article, it's just terrible clickbait.
    I did.

    My understanding - based on your post - is that you think that any single one of these is being presented as 100% conclusive and sufficient evidence that they are marketing towards Nazis. That is not the argument that the author makes or implies; rather, all of these points, taken together, show a certain trend with the way the company views the product, or the way the company is presenting their product.

    It's like, if I buy a tomato, that doesn't mean I'm going to make salad for dinner - but if I buy a tomato, lettuce, some salad dressing, croutons, and blue cheese, and then post on my Twitter account that I'm thinking of going vegetarian, then there's a pretty good chance that salad is what's for dinner.
    The author is constantly reaching for points, he starts off saying because the cover art is more sexualized than the old austere ankh that means it's marketing to Nazis (I guess the 80s sourcebook New Wave Requiem is super fascist then, lol). Does anyone else really think that? Can no one else think of a reason they might want to make the cover of their Vampire RPG more sexy/romantic, especially in a post-Twilight world?
    The author said that in a game that is purportedly about horror, about creatures who are inherently superior (prettier, faster, stronger, etc) than most of humanity in some ways - an idea that is inherent to Nazi ideology and so is appealing to anyone who ascribes to it - it's important to show that these creatures are not something to actually aspire to. They are monsters, they are damned, and they are losing touch of what it means to be human. Presenting them as sexy sexy superhumans is absolutely a sensible marketing tactic in a post-Twilight world - but it also weakens their image as unappealing monsters that people shouldn't want to be like.
    - The "Second Inquisition" hunting vampires is an allegory for Jewish cabals that "run the world" persecuting nazis
    Vampires are a group who have mystical powers that elevate them above most humans, and in this edition are being hunted by a secret cabal that is pulling strings of a global conspiracy that rules the world.

    Nazis see themselves as being superior to most humans, believe that there is a cabal of Jewish femi-communist globalists secretly ruling the world, and furthermore that this cabal is out to "get" them.

    It's not hard to see why they might see parallels to their worldview in the setting being offered by Vampire 5th Edition.
    - The alpha playtest didn't include any Humanity rules, so this means the game is marketed towards Nazis
    The alpha playtest - and, from what I understand, the latest version of the game (although I may be wrong on this) - doesn't include any Humanity rules, which means that the game is not interested in having a mechanical way of showing that - refer to my earlier point - vampires are inhuman monsters that one shouldn't aspire to be. In previous editions, if you wanted to play Vampires as depraved monsters, you can - but you will then stray further and further from being passably human, which will cause various problems. The game is a horror game, about balancing this cursed condition that you have found yourself in and the humanity that you have just lost.

    In a game without this system, there's nothing mechanically stopping you from reveling in your vampire nature. That means the game doesn't think that being a monster with fascistic tendencies is a problem; it also means that the game isn't interested in exploring the tension between your human side and your monster side, which suggests to me that it's less interested in being a horror game and more interested in a game of undead super-powered people.
    - The alpha playtest uses the word "triggered" to describe something so this means the game is marketed towards Nazis
    The word "triggered" is widely, widely used online by Nazis to mean "this person had an emotional reaction to something, which means that they are irrational and weak". It's a beloved term of alt-right everywhere; anytime someone demonstrates that they care about a subject, there will be a reply going "lol triggered". Calling the Brujah weakness - which sees them lost to an irrational rage - "triggered" is very obviously leveraging this usage of the word. This was actually the only point that stood out to me as being clearly and unambiguously White Wolf playing to the Nazi crowd, because all the other points can certainly have other, more benign explanation. There is really no reason not to call it "fury" or "rage" or whatever else, other than wanting to use the word "triggered" to mean "had an emotional reaction".
    - The Changeling: the Dreaming pregen character pack has negative reviews on Drive Thru RPG so this means V5 is marketed towards Nazis
    Well, more that Nazis are feeling encouraged enough and feel an ownership over the game lines enough to post scathing reviews even on products that typically no one would care about enough to review.
    - They hired Zak Sabbath, a person involved in the gamergate controversy, so this means the game is marketed towards Nazis
    Yup. It's like if you hire Pelé, it's at least partially because you want to appeal to soccer fans; if you hire Bill Nye, it's at least partially because you want to appeal to people who were kids growing up watching his show; and so on.
    - They hired Mark Rein-Hagen, the founder and lead developer of the original VtM, who appraently has some right wing views, so this means the game is marketed towards Nazis (but the original game he had much, much more influence on wasn't because...?)
    Yup, see above. Also, it's not just that he has some right-wing views ("Let Nazis beat you" isn't even a right-wing view, it's breaking down the boundary wall to the right of right-wing, crawling through the rubble, and setting up shop there), it's that he professes them loudly and frequently. Hiring him communicates: "We think that a person who believes that anti-Nazi sentiments, not Nazis, are the real problem is the right fit for this game." That implies "If you think that anti-Nazi sentiments are a problem, this game is the right fit for you."

    Incidentally, the author does say in several places that the game was less measured in its handling of race, gender, and similar while Mark Rein-Hagen was at the helm. It always puzzled me that Ravnos were literally "racist perceptions of Romani lol". Even the Assamites, who were mostly "Muslim assassins lol" had some more depth and nuance to them.
    - A quote says Brujah anti-establishment types could be anyone, a con man, a neo-nazi, a kid downloading movies, etc. and because it is even mentioned as a possibility, this means the game is marketed towards Nazis
    That is not at all what the author said. They said that the issue is that this draws an equivalence between kids downloading movies illegally (which very few people other than big corporations consider to be a major sin) and neo-Nazis. That means: "Pretty much no one thinks pirating movies is terrible, and neo-Nazis are the same thing, so mathematics tells us that neo-Nazis are not terrible."
    - The creative lead, Martin Ericcson, argues about this online saying that they comment on the current state of the world, describing the increase in far right activity as a problem akin to "wealth concentration, religious fanaticism, persecution of minorities, etc.", his opponent argues that including the possibility of playing as an alt-right character is inherently wrong and has this incredible counter argument "If you write a game where you describe a dark-skinned race of elves as intrinsically evil... you are answerable to black people who immediately recognize it as continuing their oppression" (next article: D&D is racist), and this argument on an online forum where the White Wolf guy looks cogent and his opponent grasps at straws means the game is marketed towards Nazis.
    I don't really remember if this was in the article or not, or if this was a separate thing on the forums that you may have read, so I can't really comment on this.

    (Other than yeah, making a entire species of black-skinned humanoids inherently evil is very clearly something that some white people did without it even occurring to them how it would be seen by black people.)
    And didn't D&D 5E hire this Zak guy also? I recall reading the same outrage before, does this mean D&D is marketed towards Nazis as well?
    Yeah, he was apparently a consultant on it. And, yeah, it justifiably caused outrage. As this is one bulletpoint for D&D, and one of several bulletpoints for Vampire 5th edition, I'm more likely to think that Vampire 5th edition is being being made palatable and inviting to Nazis, and D&D wasn't especially.
    I truly regret having read this article.
    I'm sorry to have wasted your time! I wanted to refer to the article while I was writing this so I could make sure I wasn't misrepresenting it, but the article has now been removed, so I suppose no one else's time will be wasted.

    Jeep-EepTheColonel
  • KadokenKadoken I'm an adult I am going to shoot this mystery with my pistol of deduction -Sherlock Holmes (Scott Benson)Registered User regular
    Kadoken wrote: »
    What does that make Hunter?

    Not one of the big three?

    I meant of the metaphorical family

  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Never do what your enemy expects you to do! Registered User regular
    edited July 10
    I like your first thought was "nobody read the article" and not "huh, these guys have a different opinion than I do." Because obviously we're all full of shit, right?

    Undead Scottsman on
    Edith Upwards
  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    No, my first thought was "obviously this article is outrageously full of shit", but I find it interesting that your first thought is that I somehow look down on you or your viewpoint.

    You could make a less tenuous list of "evidence" for who shot JFK or 9/11 was an inside job or whatever, it's truly an absurd list of "facts" whose only purpose is to stir up trouble.

    As a big fan of Requiem 2E I'm very skeptical that the mechanics of V5 will be up to par with the amazing games Onyx Path is currently putting out (Demon, Mage 2E, Vampire 2E have been some of my best experiences in any game, ever) but I don't have any weird political concerns about the game company's secret nazi agenda.

    I mean, come on guys, "Swedish edgelords", really? Does anyone else remember Vampire the Masquerade? The game was over the top ridiculous "edgy" at every opportunity. I once lost a bet because someone referenced an image in "Montreal by Night". I didn't believe that one of the chapter art pages was a vampire woman raping a mortal woman with a spiked strap-on dildo in a pubic bathroom in order for her ghoul to harvest the blood from her destroyed vagina. It's really in there, a full page art picture of what I just described, but sure, the REAL intent of making one of the characters in the alpha playtest a pedophile to secretly signal to Nazi's that they're on their side.

  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Never do what your enemy expects you to do! Registered User regular
    Lanlaorn wrote: »
    No, my first thought was "obviously this article is outrageously full of shit", but I find it interesting that your first thought is that I somehow look down on you or your viewpoint.

    You started your post telling us we should "actually" read the article, implying that either we either just read the title or like a paragraph and just immediately agreed with the article, or that we did read the article and apparently were too incompetent to deduce that it is "clickbait" and need reread it. That was literally the first thing you chose to do when you entered into this conversation.

    You're either looking down on my viewpoint , or you're looking down on my competency as a reader. Either way, that doesn't engender me to engage with your argument in the slightest.
    You could make a less tenuous list of "evidence" for who shot JFK or 9/11 was an inside job or whatever, it's truly an absurd list of "facts" whose only purpose is to stir up trouble.

    Also, maybe don't get indignant over the insinuation that you "look down on me or my viewpoint" and then immediately compare an article, that I had just referred to positively, to 9/11 truther bullshit.

    Edith UpwardsTheColonelJeep-Eep
  • NeadenNeaden Registered User regular
    I don't know if nuWW is purposefully marketing to the alt-right. I do know that when they got the rights one of the first things they did was to publish a fiction anthology that was edited by a pedophile and make no mention of his crimes or if he was going to profit. They did include a new short story though, written by Erikkson that includes the phrase "full ass-rape stiffness" so I'm not really eager to give them any of my money.

    Edith UpwardsTheColonelJeep-Eep
  • DelduwathDelduwath Registered User regular
    Lanlaorn wrote: »
    I once lost a bet because someone referenced an image in "Montreal by Night". I didn't believe that one of the chapter art pages was a vampire woman raping a mortal woman with a spiked strap-on dildo in a pubic bathroom in order for her ghoul to harvest the blood from her destroyed vagina.
    This stayed in my head from the moment I read it until that evening, when I got home from work. My morbid curiosity had to be satisfied, so I searched for this image online.

    Yup, it's pretty much as described. There's no spike, but other than that... yeah, it was even more grotesque than I imagined. Apparently the book was published under the "Black Dog" label, which is where they printed their mature content, but I'm gonna be honest: I would have been pretty OK if that piece of art were not put into print, even if they were trying to show depraved Sabbat monsters.

    MrVyngaardJeep-Eep
  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    I know, right? The old books are full of crazy shit like that though, and so the article writer's insistence that "edgelord" content in the new book is secretly a dog whistle to neo-nazis has me just rolling my eyes - if it's true than the entire game line has been secretly fascist the entire time.

    This whole thing requires a lot of mental gymnastics to make work and we haven't even read the book yet! I'm sure this guy's blog is getting a lot of traffic but it is completely unfounded, each point requires an elaborate, unsubstantiated theory of the author's to make it fit into his thesis.

  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Lanlaorn wrote: »
    I know, right? The old books are full of crazy shit like that though, and so the article writer's insistence that "edgelord" content in the new book is secretly a dog whistle to neo-nazis has me just rolling my eyes - if it's true than the entire game line has been secretly fascist the entire time.

    This whole thing requires a lot of mental gymnastics to make work and we haven't even read the book yet! I'm sure this guy's blog is getting a lot of traffic but it is completely unfounded, each point requires an elaborate, unsubstantiated theory of the author's to make it fit into his thesis.

    They took it down, as was mentioned in this thread. Because death threats. Some folks seem to just not be able to let it go and write it off for some reason.

    But we get it, reading comp isn't your thing. The whole "edgelord" thing and their old content was directly mentioned in the article and acknowledged that this is classic thing for White Wolf. The articles entire point was this looks different, in part because of the reasons laid out in the article.

    Jeep-Eep
  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    There was nothing indicating that this time is different beyond the article's author insisting that this time is different. For every point he had remarkable insight into the mind of the modern nazi, and if someone really believes that "triggered" and writing negative reviews on content including transgender characters is a property largely associated with nazis rather than the internet as a whole then I have a bridge to sell them. Is 4chan a nazi haven?

    Also, I'd like to comment on the personal attack, because I get it, defending this garbage would be very difficult, and logical thinking isn't your thing so let's just insult me instead, right?

    But let's keep insisting that Vampire lore is highly regarded in fascist circles [citation needed] and having a secret global society in your fiction means you are alluding to Jewish Global Cabals [citation needed] and that a negative review on a completely unrelated product indicates that... omg I just can't, believe whatever the fuck you want.

  • NeadenNeaden Registered User regular
    edited July 12
    Lanlaorn wrote: »
    There was nothing indicating that this time is different beyond the article's author insisting that this time is different. For every point he had remarkable insight into the mind of the modern nazi, and if someone really believes that "triggered" and writing negative reviews on content including transgender characters is a property largely associated with nazis rather than the internet as a whole then I have a bridge to sell them. Is 4chan a nazi haven?

    Yes, yes it is. Have you just not been paying attention lately?

    Neaden on
    DevoutlyApatheticMoridin889MsAnthropyToxaugustMatevEdith UpwardsElldrenThe Hanged ManTheColonelKetBraDarkewolfeMrVyngaardJeep-Eep
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Lanlaorn wrote: »
    There was nothing indicating that this time is different beyond the article's author insisting that this time is different. For every point he had remarkable insight into the mind of the modern nazi, and if someone really believes that "triggered" and writing negative reviews on content including transgender characters is a property largely associated with nazis rather than the internet as a whole then I have a bridge to sell them. Is 4chan a nazi haven?

    Also, I'd like to comment on the personal attack, because I get it, defending this garbage would be very difficult, and logical thinking isn't your thing so let's just insult me instead, right?

    You have continually flattened nuanced arguments into absurd strawmen. In the very post you are responding to, but fail to have the courtesy to quote, I gave you a specific example of where your strawman was flawed and betrayed a lack of understanding of the article. I do not question that somebody might disagree with the arguments in the article, but you have not shown you actually understand what the article is saying.

    I was assuming you simply failed to understand the article. If you're assuring me you understand it while continuing to put forth dishonest counterarguments, I don't know what you're trying to tell me.

    Edith UpwardsJeep-Eep
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    Given how badly this conversation went in the SE++ thread, I humbly suggest we drop it and move on.

    9LlOwgn.png
    Well, good morning. Welcome to the new scenario. What should we do today?
    Brainleech
  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    I watched a recent presentation about 5e where they talked about the importance of making sure that diverse voices are working on the game, especially when dealing with the relevant subjects (e.g, ethnic minorities in clans). I don't think they're nazis. They may have made some bad choices.

    MrVyngaard
  • Jeep-EepJeep-Eep Registered User regular
    edited July 16
    Tube wrote: »
    I watched a recent presentation about 5e where they talked about the importance of making sure that diverse voices are working on the game, especially when dealing with the relevant subjects (e.g, ethnic minorities in clans). I don't think they're nazis. They may have made some bad choices.

    Talk is cheap, and their actions, such as the strong evidence of editing of Werewolf for extra transphobia, the fact that they didn't pull We Eat Blood after it was found to be yet another harassment front for Zak Sabbath's crusade against a number of trans women who disagree with him in game design, that creepiness with gay victims on the anniversary of Pulse as well as a probably a dozen other pieces of fuckery that I can't remember at the moment... frankly, their assurances aren't worth the electrons they are delivered on. They are going to have to do a lot more than that.


    Edit:
    There's arguments in favor of 3 positions:
    Outright Alt-right infiltration
    Advertising catering to edgelords (inescapably involving that lot) as a way of making cheap heat
    Them just being utter flakes who ought not to have been trusted with the job and are shitting all over the value of the IP.

    Jeep-Eep on
    Edith Upwards
  • Edith UpwardsEdith Upwards Registered User regular
    All I remember is that Nord LARP dude who bragged about how Nord LARP is so hardcore they still use consent contracts, have a venue at a strip club, and once locked a claustrophobic person in a closet as a means of downplaying people's concerns during the Grand Masquerade.

    Jeep-Eep
  • Jeep-EepJeep-Eep Registered User regular
    edited July 22


    Paradox CEO is doubling down in denial of Zak and putting that pedo's work back into print, even after that hasty terms of service update.

    Whelp, no more Paradox for me.

    Edit: it's just plain damnfool behavior, because evidence of this shithead's actions is not hard to find, and when (and it will be a when, I've even got a good guess at a few of the targets he's likely going for first, given his past behavior) he gets back to old games, this shit will make any civil suit and payout he ends up provoking against paradox much worse. It's not every day you see tweets that will become articles in a civil suit.

    Jeep-Eep on
    NeadenEdith Upwards
  • Edith UpwardsEdith Upwards Registered User regular
  • INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt Registered User regular
    it's hard to take the position that the people handling vtm 5 are unaware of what they're doing and who they're catering to when it has become impossible to discuss this in actual world of darkness fan communities without being chased out by people frothing about the SJWs coming to ruin their games.

    after reading about their playtest materials i did some browsing around and it felt like staring own the barrel of a time machine to 2015 and the height of the gamergate movement.

    sometimes you just gotta do a thing
    Edith UpwardsJeep-EepMsAnthropy
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Never do what your enemy expects you to do! Registered User regular
    Yeah, that's probably the second biggest thing for me (first being the hiring and continual defense of garbage people) is that there has been no walk-back; they've doubled down on every single bit. Even on stuff that could easily be excised.

    Jeep-Eep
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Yeah, that's probably the second biggest thing for me (first being the hiring and continual defense of garbage people) is that there has been no walk-back; they've doubled down on every single bit. Even on stuff that could easily be excised.

    Didn't they walk back the 1,4,8,8 example thing?

    So the bar is at obvious White Supremacy + Heil Hitler reference to get excised.

    Jeep-EepEdith Upwards
  • Jeep-EepJeep-Eep Registered User regular
    it's hard to take the position that the people handling vtm 5 are unaware of what they're doing and who they're catering to when it has become impossible to discuss this in actual world of darkness fan communities without being chased out by people frothing about the SJWs coming to ruin their games.

    after reading about their playtest materials i did some browsing around and it felt like staring own the barrel of a time machine to 2015 and the height of the gamergate movement.

    Thing is, they're alienating a very important part of the playerbase - minority players were a big part of why the WoD was a success, and this shitshow is pissing off that group hard. Edgelords are not a reliable demographic - shitheads don't do much in the way of loyalty, and they tend to pirate.

    So it's just fucking damnfool all around.

    Edith UpwardsAuralynxMsAnthropyMoridin889
  • augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    Yeah, that's probably the second biggest thing for me (first being the hiring and continual defense of garbage people) is that there has been no walk-back; they've doubled down on every single bit. Even on stuff that could easily be excised.

    Didn't they walk back the 1,4,8,8 example thing?

    So the bar is at obvious White Supremacy + Heil Hitler reference to get excised.

    Wait... what? Where was this?

    Pac Man's character is difficult to explain even to the Japanese -- he is an innocent character. He hasn't been educated to discern between good and evil. He acts more like a small child than a grown-up person. Think of him as a child learning in the course of his daily activities. If someone tells him guns are evil, he would be the type to rush out and eat guns. But he would most probably eat any gun, even the pistols of policemen who need them.
  • Edith UpwardsEdith Upwards Registered User regular
    edited July 24
    Dice example in the released material. They changed it from 1, 4, 8, 8 to 8, 8, 4, 1.

    Edith Upwards on
  • DelduwathDelduwath Registered User regular
    That's... Why is it still... Would it have been difficult to change it to, let's say, 9, 8, 3, 1?

    MrVyngaard
  • Edith_Bagot-DixEdith_Bagot-Dix Registered User regular
    it's hard to take the position that the people handling vtm 5 are unaware of what they're doing and who they're catering to when it has become impossible to discuss this in actual world of darkness fan communities without being chased out by people frothing about the SJWs coming to ruin their games.

    after reading about their playtest materials i did some browsing around and it felt like staring own the barrel of a time machine to 2015 and the height of the gamergate movement.

    To be frank - I was high up (national level office) in the Camarilla (WW fan club/LARP org) years ago, and a significant percentage of the fan base is fucking nuts and seems like it would be ripe for this sort of thing. Moreso even than the GamerGate people. A very significant number of the people, at least in that organization, fit very neatly into the sort of profile we're seeing with the alt-right.



    Also on Steam and PSN: twobadcats
    Jeep-Eep
  • KadokenKadoken I'm an adult I am going to shoot this mystery with my pistol of deduction -Sherlock Holmes (Scott Benson)Registered User regular
    edited July 24
    Des

    Edit: I don’t know how this post came about. I will say my biggest barrier to something like Vampire is that while I want to play Vampire, I don’t want to play with the people who want to play Vampire.

    Kadoken on
    MoosehatIVMarshmallowDarkewolfeAthenortzeentchlingMoridin889The Hanged ManMatev
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