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Westworld

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  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka Metal Hell adjacentRegistered User regular
    If it isn't based on a book, I don't expect most TV shows to have more than a wikipedia stub level of discourse over the themes presented.

  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    edited June 2018
    There are loads of original TV shows that have generated tons of discourse regarding themes?

    Battlestar Galactica, Lost, Breaking Bad, Mad Men, The Wire, Bojack Horseman, The Good Place, just to name a handful that cover a lot of genres

    BlankZoe on
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  • PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Ah, man Ah, jeezRegistered User regular
    The Americans, The Leftovers, Deadwood, The Good Wife, Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, Glow, Terriers, The Shield

    It is kind of a boldly dumb take to think that the golden age of TV lacks thematic depth

  • MalReynoldsMalReynolds The Hunter S Thompson of incredibly mild medicines Registered User regular
    edited June 2018
    I miss Terriers a whole bunch.

    Edit: One of my favorite parts, midway through the season
    They catch Lindus, he makes a run for it, and gets hit by a car. A little woozy, but he seems fine.

    And then dies 3 hours later due to the head injury, which didn't look that serious.

    That episode, the Hank and Brit flashback episode, and the wedding episode are all so goddamn good.

    MalReynolds on
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  • OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    Hacksaw wrote: »
    It's the True Detective problem all over again: you spend years writing a damn fine first season, working on it in your head day after day, planning out every beat and line and shot well in advance, and then the time comes to deliver the golden goose again for a second season and haha nope.

    God, remember True Detective? For all its flaws that first season is still some damned excellent television, so solidly constructed

    Outside of a handful of moments in the first season, mostly featuring Anthony Hopkins, I never got that feeling from Westworld

    Is this season worth seeing for the one episode everyone really liked?

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  • NarbusNarbus Registered User regular
    Olivaw wrote: »
    Is this season worth seeing for the one episode everyone really liked?

    I personally would say no, it's not.

  • Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    edited June 2018
    Hey if I kind of despise this show is there still a chance I would still like Person of Interest

    I am now very suspect of Nolan & Joy projects

    Mr. G on
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  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    Person of Interest is excellent, but I also thoroughly enjoyed both seasons of Westworld, so maybe I'm a dumb

    Do you like Agents of SHIELD at all? Cause I'd say Person of Interest follows a very similar quality curve of blah to fucking incredible.

    Oh brilliant
  • Grey GhostGrey Ghost Registered User regular
    I wouldn't say Person of Interest is really much like Westworld at all, and is certainly way more fun

    It's a show that manages to be pretty smart by being very dumb, if that makes sense

    It starts kinda whatever, someone can give you a list of the plot relevant episodes of season 1 to watch, so do those and then seasons 2 through the end are good to go

  • Grey GhostGrey Ghost Registered User regular
    Maybe they both kinda have a theme of "man, technology is crazy huh?" but they do totally different things with it

    POI has so many episodes that seem to be resolved by letting Jim Caviezel loose to kneecap every bad guy inside of 30 seconds that it suckers you into a false sense of stupidity and then it hits you with some really great human storytelling or a cogent argument about the overreach of government power

  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    PoI only was great when you add the later seasons of the show, but the first two looked like a standard mystery crime procedural, which put many people off.

    So, while I really love Westworld myself, I'm expecting it to go to eleven relatively soon

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  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka Metal Hell adjacentRegistered User regular
    The Americans, The Leftovers, Deadwood, The Good Wife, Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, Glow, Terriers, The Shield

    It is kind of a boldly dumb take to think that the golden age of TV lacks thematic depth

    Those kinds of shows are few and far between, and the examples are spread out over more than a decade. While at the same time the majority of other shows that touch on a theme don't go very far beyond a surface level explanation.

  • Grey GhostGrey Ghost Registered User regular
    edited June 2018
    I'm just going to link this again because it's a great read

    https://theconcourse.deadspin.com/person-of-interest-was-anti-prestige-tv-and-too-smart-f-1787984705

    Edit: there are some general spoilers in there

    Grey Ghost on
  • SimBenSimBen Hodor? Hodor Hodor.Registered User regular
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    The Americans, The Leftovers, Deadwood, The Good Wife, Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, Glow, Terriers, The Shield

    It is kind of a boldly dumb take to think that the golden age of TV lacks thematic depth

    Those kinds of shows are few and far between, and the examples are spread out over more than a decade. While at the same time the majority of other shows that touch on a theme don't go very far beyond a surface level explanation.

    The shows Pooro and Blank listed, put together, cover an uninterrupted continuum from 2002 to the present day. There are people who can drive who weren't born when this trend started.

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  • PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Ah, man Ah, jeezRegistered User regular
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    The Americans, The Leftovers, Deadwood, The Good Wife, Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, Glow, Terriers, The Shield

    It is kind of a boldly dumb take to think that the golden age of TV lacks thematic depth

    Those kinds of shows are few and far between, and the examples are spread out over more than a decade. While at the same time the majority of other shows that touch on a theme don't go very far beyond a surface level explanation.

    90% of books suck, though. Sturgeon's Law, and all that

    Not sure why you're deadset on dismissing an entire medium of storytelling because it doesn't hit some unspecified respectability quotient, but have fun I guess

  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    edited June 2018
    Yeah and it ain't like those 15 shows are the only ones in that time period or even before it

    There's The Sopranos, Homicide: Life on the Street, Cheers, Atlanta, Band of Brothers, Twin Peaks, Fargo, Six Feet Under, etc.

    There have been TV shows featuring thematic depth enough to generate discourse about it for decades and saying they are few and far between when we've listed over 20 of them, for starters, from across that time period is more than a little silly

    BlankZoe on
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  • SnicketysnickSnicketysnick The Greatest Hype Man in WesterosRegistered User regular
    POI is also very good at making what looks like a mistake so you go "aha! silly writers, I am the smart one!" and then half a series or more later it goes Gotcha suckers.

    God I wish Netflix would hurry up and add series 5 here, I'm antsy to see how it all pans out.

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  • HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    90% seems low, to start with 22% of all books were written by James Patterson

    Broke as fuck in the style of the times. Gratitude is all that can return on your generosity.

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  • GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    Isn't James Patterson the guy who killed his wife? Or am I thinking of another insanely prolific American writer?

  • HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    edited June 2018
    If James Patterson killed his wife it hasn't fucked with his writing career too bad

    Fuckin 'Bookshots', more like brain shots, my brain

    Hobnail on
    Broke as fuck in the style of the times. Gratitude is all that can return on your generosity.

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  • Grey GhostGrey Ghost Registered User regular
    POI is also very good at making what looks like a mistake so you go "aha! silly writers, I am the smart one!" and then half a series or more later it goes Gotcha suckers.

    God I wish Netflix would hurry up and add series 5 here, I'm antsy to see how it all pans out.

    Wait.
    You don't have it yet?

  • SnicketysnickSnicketysnick The Greatest Hype Man in WesterosRegistered User regular
    Grey Ghost wrote: »
    POI is also very good at making what looks like a mistake so you go "aha! silly writers, I am the smart one!" and then half a series or more later it goes Gotcha suckers.

    God I wish Netflix would hurry up and add series 5 here, I'm antsy to see how it all pans out.

    Wait.
    You don't have it yet?

    Nope, it only finished on free to air TV here last year and they are re-running it at the moment. Irritatingly, if I'd started POI about...2 months earlier than I did, I'd be good to go and be watching series 5 on the tv but as it panned out it was on about episode 10 when I caught up. Hopefully once this rerun finishes the rights for streaming will become available but as it is, I am stuck waiting to see what comes of that briefcase and how (poi series 4 spoilers)
    the gang rescue Shaw because that's happening eventually for sure.

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  • GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    Hobnail wrote: »
    If James Patterson killed his wife it hasn't fucked with his writing career too bad

    Fuckin 'Bookshots', more like brain shots, my brain

    no wait I was thinking of Michael Peterson sorry

  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka Metal Hell adjacentRegistered User regular
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    The Americans, The Leftovers, Deadwood, The Good Wife, Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, Glow, Terriers, The Shield

    It is kind of a boldly dumb take to think that the golden age of TV lacks thematic depth

    Those kinds of shows are few and far between, and the examples are spread out over more than a decade. While at the same time the majority of other shows that touch on a theme don't go very far beyond a surface level explanation.

    90% of books suck, though. Sturgeon's Law, and all that

    Not sure why you're deadset on dismissing an entire medium of storytelling because it doesn't hit some unspecified respectability quotient, but have fun I guess

    I'm not. I just don't go into shows expecting anything more than a surface level exploration of a theme in the name of telling the story. It's rare that a show that isn't based on an existing property that revolves around a specific theme actually delves deep that I find it's usually best to not expect it. Even then some completely whiff or gloss over the issues brought up (Altered Carbon is a book-based show that did this).

    I'm not saying TV can't be more than that, but that if you go into a show with expectations that it will be a deep exploration on the nature of conciousness and identity that you're setting yourself up for disappointment. If you go into it expecting a surface level discussion of a concept in service to the storyline you're going to be pleasantly surprised if the show turns out to be more.

  • KwoaruKwoaru Confident Smirk Flawless Golden PecsRegistered User regular
    I just finished West World season 1
    I think that was one of the best seasons of a television show that I've ever seen? I mean thats not a super long list for me but I thought it was amazing and the Bernard reveal and the William reveal were both amazing

    I was watching with my boyfriend who had never seen any west world before and for like two episodes before the man in black reveal when they focused so lovingly on the the knife I was worried he would catch on early but he didn't until just before the actual reveal and it was awesome

    In light of season one I think season two is definitely less impressive even though I still liked it

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  • Linespider5Linespider5 ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGER Registered User regular
    Mr. G wrote: »
    Hey if I kind of despise this show is there still a chance I would still like Person of Interest

    I am now very suspect of Nolan & Joy projects

    It's a bit of a shame. Person of Interest does some fucking excellent stuff, using the first season or so as 'plot of the week,' largely self-contained stories that quietly lay the groundwork for the longer-form narrative that begins becoming more apparent later on. You could drop into it, get the gist of who Reese is, who Finch is, what they do, how they work together, and how the settings functions as an engine to do fun stories. The stories themselves do a damn good job of scaling, in terms of you can be totally fine in those first couple seasons, for the most part it's not hugely critical you see them in the original order...like, you know, a traditional, pre-streaming TV show would have to stand on its own merits between commercials and so on.

    And, by God, the plot and ambitions of the show grow into amazingly satisfying stuff. Stuff which, in its own way, feels quite congruent to Westworld as a conceptual precursor, and made people like myself real, real jazzed to see how Westworld would make good on that pedigree.

    ...and then Westworld doesn't have any of the punch of POI, or relatable characters, or discrete initial storytelling that made Person of Interest. It's like the Nolans went and decided, "We're doing Prestige Television now, so we don't need to earn the audience's trust or reward their investment in the show. Fear of Missing Out will do the job for us."

  • FawstFawst The road to awe.Registered User regular
    Just stayed up way too late to finish S2.

    I thought it was fantastic. If it ended there, I wouldn’t complain. If there really is an S3, I think they almost have to
    do the title change to Futureworld.

  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    There is a season 3, they announced that before like episode 3 which kind of gave away the general ending of this season.

  • Sweeney TomSweeney Tom Registered User regular
    Deadline reports Aaron Paul is joining the regular cast, starting in season 3

  • Grey GhostGrey Ghost Registered User regular
    Aw, what a shame

  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    edited January 2019
    I am working my way through the second season. I am at the part where they
    introduce the man in black's daughter.

    Krathoon on
  • FawstFawst The road to awe.Registered User regular
    For anyone that hasn't been reading the Game of Thrones thread:

    https://youtu.be/deSUQ7mZfWk

  • DeciusDecius I'm old! I'm fat! I'M BLUE!Registered User regular
    As GoT was coming to an end, I started thinking of other HBO shows, and it got me wondering again where the hell Westworld could go from the end of Season 2.

    This looks like an interesting turn.

    As an aside, HBO is really pulling in some star-power with it's forthcoming shows.

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    I never finish anyth
  • TransporterTransporter Registered User regular
    Decius wrote: »
    As GoT was coming to an end, I started thinking of other HBO shows, and it got me wondering again where the hell Westworld could go from the end of Season 2.

    This looks like an interesting turn.

    As an aside, HBO is really pulling in some star-power with it's forthcoming shows.

    GoT was a bouy they can’t replace at this point. They are throwing money at the wall to see what sticks.

    Not actually the worst plan, really.

  • DeciusDecius I'm old! I'm fat! I'M BLUE!Registered User regular
    edited May 2019
    Decius wrote: »
    As GoT was coming to an end, I started thinking of other HBO shows, and it got me wondering again where the hell Westworld could go from the end of Season 2.

    This looks like an interesting turn.

    As an aside, HBO is really pulling in some star-power with it's forthcoming shows.

    GoT was a bouy they can’t replace at this point. They are throwing money at the wall to see what sticks.

    Not actually the worst plan, really.

    It really isn't. The preview roll that ran prior to the GoT finale had me more far more intrigued then any other preview roll I've had from HBO. I'm surprised they didn't bother with this trailer, though that could be an HBO Canada/Crave choice.

    Edit: As much as I don't want to further derail this into the HBO thread, this was one of those trailers. Danny McBride, Adam Devine, and John Goodman...in a small screen show.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ov6Kji-1P4

    Decius on
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    I never finish anyth
  • Sweeney TomSweeney Tom Registered User regular
    Watching the season 2 finale happen in realtime, I thought I was done with this show, or at the very least it was difficult to find a way to get me interested in it again
    Fawst wrote: »

    I saw this before the Thrones ep, was very impressed, and my jaw dropped at the last 10 seconds revealing that it was for this. Still don't know if I'm all the way back in but that's a damn good start

  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    I really, really love westworld so far.

    It probably helps that I fucking loved person of interest, too, jonathan nolan's previous show

    One thing that had going that it was planned thoroughly, with a consistent mythology, and a great ending

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  • AistanAistan Tiny Bat Registered User regular
    Main difference for me there is that I actually liked the characters in Person of Interest.

  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Person of Interest owes a lot to the Whedon shows. It has the same overall structure - episodes of the week slowly building to a season plot. Where it takes off from that formula is that each season also builds on the previous to become one big story.

    Even many of the one-off characters from earlier seasons end up becoming recurring players in the big story. This also makes it harder to do an "essentials" list of early season episodes, because they start pulling strings from everywhere as things pick up.

  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    People said that HBO was finished after the end of The Sopranos too.

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